"Pied" female ... Opinions please

I came across this pied female for sale. Pied is one gene that I am not very familiar with as far as quality vs pricing is concerned. It was hatched late 2015 and is about 200 grams. The seller is asking $400. Now I understand that being a low/high white pied does not effect what the offspring will be. That being said, I am looking for opinions on whether or not 400 is reasonable for this pied female? Should I make a counter offer or should I walk? Thanks in advance for your input :gj:

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/...psk5xzpj4s.jpg

I like a low white pied and the price is about average.
Is there shipping involved?

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

I like a low white pied and the price is about average.
Is there shipping involved?

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No it is local

Well, does this particular animal appeal to you? For me, it doesn't embody what I think the perfect pied is. So personally I would walk. However I know at least one person who would love it.

Do you love it enough to pay that much?

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Originally Posted by Kokorobosoi

Well, does this particular animal appeal to you? For me, it doesn't embody what I think the perfect pied is. So personally I would walk. However I know at least one person who would love it.

Do you love it enough to pay that much?

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See my opinion of a pied is different from most. I am not much of a pied person actually, it is more my girlfriend (also as much into the snakes as I am) who is the pied person. I have referred to my opinion of pied in the past as " just a smear of whatever morph it's mixed with on a nice white backdrop" she does like this pied and I must say that this one in particular made me eat my quoted words above as there is WAY more than "just a smear" of pattern to this girl

Pieds are awesome and the pattern on that one is really nice

$400 for a female is average like Pit said. It basically boils down to how much you like the snake. If you like it, that's all the really matters, or in your case, if your girlfriend likes it.

It's fair market price for a 2015 female.

It all comes down to if it's worth it to YOU. Personally, I like medium to high white pieds. With that one, with so little white, why pay for the pied gene?

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Originally Posted by Yodawagon

It all comes down to if it's worth it to YOU. Personally, I like medium to high white pieds. With that one, with so little white, why pay for the pied gene?

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I also like med white pieds but the patterns on a low white are fun to see too and pied is pied as far as genetics care

I personally like mid to high white Pieds. Really depends what you like.

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Originally Posted by Yodawagon

It all comes down to if it's worth it to YOU. Personally, I like medium to high white pieds. With that one, with so little white, why pay for the pied gene?

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It will not only be a pet but also a breeder, that's why pay for the gene, and the look of one or both of the parents does not effect how the offspring will look, so if you can get a visual for a little cheaper because it is a less desire snake ..... I don't know about most but me .... Im'ma jump all over that!:gj:

if your gf likes it and Pieds are in your plans, i say get it. gotta start growing the girls.

also $400 is fair, but always make an offer and/or counter. u never know when u might save some bucks.

I love pieds with almost no white, but what we think about the animal isn't really what's important at the end of the day. If you (or your gf) like it, then go for it!

That said, I do think it's beautiful and I personally would buy it if I had the budget for it


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I have seen quite a pieds with more white for less money over the last few months. There was a low white pastel pied for four hundred a few weeks ago, but it was a male and did not include shipping. All in all not a great deal in my opinion, especially if you have to ask.

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Originally Posted by AntTheDestroyer

I have seen quite a pieds with more white for less money over the last few months. There was a low white pastel pied for four hundred a few weeks ago, but it was a male and did not include shipping. All in all not a great deal in my opinion, especially if you have to ask.

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All in all, it's not really that I "had" to ask, more rather than testing the waters to see what others opinions were as far as the pricing goes for this particular very low white "Female". For instance, here is a picture of a male that I am picking up this evening, I did not inquire opinions from anyone on this snake as I have my own suspicions and hope to prove it out. But just to tickle my fancy ... What is your take on this snake? And then I will tell you what I think and what it is being sold as :gj:

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/...psfuicwecn.jpg

Cinnamon ringer

I was more meaning that I if you have to ask you are probably questioning how much you like it yourself. I would guess that is a nice looking black pastel leopard, but I am not expert.

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Originally Posted by dwilliams

Cinnamon ringer

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I can see what your seeing ... Good guess :gj:.. close but nope

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Originally Posted by AntTheDestroyer

I was more meaning that I if you have to ask you are probably questioning how much you like it yourself. I would guess that is a nice looking black pastel leopard, but I am not expert.

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Yep I think you nailed it

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Originally Posted by AntTheDestroyer

I was more meaning that I if you have to ask you are probably questioning how much you like it yourself. I would guess that is a nice looking black pastel leopard, but I am not expert.

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I see your point, sorry if I seemed to come off abrasive, that's not what I was going for (I was still on my first cup of Joe for the morning :rolleye2:) ... I also see where your guess is reasonable as the distorted cheerios are busy and collide a lot similar to what leopard does to some morphs. Yes black pastel ... The breeder is calling it a male Black Pastel 100% Het pied it is a 135 gram baby .. aaaand ...... My curiosity has gotten the better of me and I am curious that there is a chance with those nice ringers, that it could possibly be a very low white black pastel pied .... It's going out on a limb and just a hope I have, but time will tell .... None the less, I believe it to be worth every penny of the $100 I am giving for it :gj:

Not a black pastel pied but maybe one of the parents is leopard pied and the breeder doesn't know.

I paid 300 for a low white female pied recently but 400 isn't terrible. I'd personally offer less since you can find a higher white hatchling for the same price.

the 0.1 low-white Pied originally posted is a fair price, not a deal.

and that Black Pastel het Pied was only $100?! holy moley!! now that's a deal! they're like $200 for normal looking Black Pastel het Pieds, probably $300 or more for a visually stunning one like that.

also IMO i don't believe it's Leopard. it's hard to imagine at least 2 generations of BP's without (parents and this clutch) without seeing anything obviously Leopard. i believe it's a Black Pastel het Pied with strong visual indicators of the Pied gene.

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Originally Posted by T_Sauer

I see your point, sorry if I seemed to come off abrasive, that's not what I was going for (I was still on my first cup of Joe for the morning :rolleye2:) ... I also see where your guess is reasonable as the distorted cheerios are busy and collide a lot similar to what leopard does to some morphs. Yes black pastel ... The breeder is calling it a male Black Pastel 100% Het pied it is a 135 gram baby .. aaaand ...... My curiosity has gotten the better of me and I am curious that there is a chance with those nice ringers, that it could possibly be a very low white black pastel pied .... It's going out on a limb and just a hope I have, but time will tell .... None the less, I believe it to be worth every penny of the $100 I am giving for it :gj:

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Nope it is a low white pied there is no black pastel involved. :gj:

Head, color, pattern and amount of white are wrong for a black pastel pied.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Nope it is a low white pied there is no black pastel involved. :gj:

Head, color, pattern and amount of white are wrong for a black pastel pied.

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Interesting .... I was not questioning the Black pastel factor at all, as it extremely resembles my regular black pastel female I have. You are referring to the second snake I posted a picture of on page 2 of this thread right Deborah?? This thread took a little twist on page 2 not sure if maybe you missed that part of the thread

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Originally Posted by T_Sauer

Interesting .... I was not questioning the Black pastel factor at all, as it extremely resembles my regular black pastel female I have. You are referring to the second snake I posted a picture of on page 2 of this thread right Deborah?? This thread took a little twist on page 2 not sure if maybe you missed that part of the thread

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Sorry I missed that I thought you were talking about the female that will teach me to read everything.

The male is a black pastel het pied but not a visual pied pretty much for the same reason, head patter and overall body pattern and the true test if you are still in doubt is the belly, if you check the belly you will see a typical Black Pastel belly not a pied belly.

Price is something I really struggle with online. In Florida we have a lot of shows and some stuff I can get at shows cheaper than online and vice versa. That price for a pied female I'd call "fair" but I would pass on that one. Partly because I'd rather have a more significant amount of white and have it be more obvious it's a pied (if you try to sell her down the road you will most likely get less than a high white), but I'd also just rather take another route to pieds (which I'm actually doing). I can get het pieds at shows for $50 very easily, so I'd rather buy like 4 het pied females and then in a year or so I'd buy a male (I bet you can find pied males later this year for 200) and then breed. If you buy a pied male and pied female like this you'll probably end 2016 with 1.1 pieds and you'll have to pray that she'll be up to size and ready to go in a year. If she decides she wants nothing to do with the male, or she goes off feed too often, then you're screwed. But if you have 4 het pied females it's a better chance to having consistent clutches. I'd rather take 50% chance of getting a pied on 4 clutches than 100% chance on 1. That's of course if you want and can handle twice the snakes. If you don't have the room and are fine waiting if she doesn't go then a pied female is fine.

I personally do have a pied female, but I also have 2 het pied females just in case. I paid 360 (Tampa Repticon) for my pied girl last year and she was ~400g.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Sorry I missed that I thought you were talking about the female that will teach me to read everything.

The male is a black pastel het pied but not a visual pied pretty much for the same reason, head patter and overall body pattern and the true test if you are still in doubt is the belly, if you check the belly you will see a typical Black Pastel belly not a pied belly.

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I had assumed you overlooked it Deborah no worries, but thanks you for the small lesson on Het verification :gj:

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Originally Posted by bks2100

Price is something I really struggle with online. In Florida we have a lot of shows and some stuff I can get at shows cheaper than online and vice versa. That price for a pied female I'd call "fair" but I would pass on that one. Partly because I'd rather have a more significant amount of white and have it be more obvious it's a pied (if you try to sell her down the road you will most likely get less than a high white), but I'd also just rather take another route to pieds (which I'm actually doing). I can get het pieds at shows for $50 very easily, so I'd rather buy like 4 het pied females and then in a year or so I'd buy a male (I bet you can find pied males later this year for 200) and then breed. If you buy a pied male and pied female like this you'll probably end 2016 with 1.1 pieds and you'll have to pray that she'll be up to size and ready to go in a year. If she decides she wants nothing to do with the male, or she goes off feed too often, then you're screwed. But if you have 4 het pied females it's a better chance to having consistent clutches. I'd rather take 50% chance of getting a pied on 4 clutches than 100% chance on 1. That's of course if you want and can handle twice the snakes. If you don't have the room and are fine waiting if she doesn't go then a pied female is fine.

I personally do have a pied female, but I also have 2 het pied females just in case. I paid 360 (Tampa Repticon) for my pied girl last year and she was ~400g.

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I understand what you are saying :gj: These pick ups are local. I already have Het pied females for the exact reasons you explained above, the reasons for picking up this female visual is simply for an odds booster and also a personal appeal

Theirs a beautiful bigger pied for sell for 400 in one of the facebook groups. And it is way more pied up

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T, I think the pied is gorgeous. She has a strikingly unique pied pattern and great coloration. I think she is a little pricey but you can discuss that with the seller. If girlfriend is the pied person and she's digging it and y'all agree, I say pull the trigger. The very interesting fact as you know already the amount of white she has or doesn't have has no impact on the future hatchlings white percentage she will produce for you.

I prefer medium to high white, but this a low white I would buy. great pattern, beautiful snake.

I don't think the price is unreasonable at all. yeah, you might be able to get one slightly cheaper, but will GF love that one as much as she loves this one? Always buy a snake that you love.

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Originally Posted by DennisM

I don't think the price is unreasonable at all. yeah, you might be able to get one slightly cheaper, but will GF love that one as much as she loves this one? Always buy a snake that you love.

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Oh we picked them both up :gj: The first one (original post) was the female very low white pied (one the GF fell in love with) we couldn't meet up today due to our schedules but we are going to pick it up tomorrow, and the second pic I posted is the male Black Pastel het Pied (one that I found and wanted, I'm a sucker for the Black Pastel gene) we picked him up this evening for a steal of 100 bucks!! Supposedly it is from the same line that produced the first Panda Pied for Colin Weaver I actually just found that out tonight as I was talking to the breeder when I went to pick him up ... I need to fact check it a little bit more to confirm it, but I am going to make another thread in the near future to discuss that

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Originally Posted by T_Sauer

...Oh we picked them both up

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LOL, of course you did. Always buy a snake that you love!

Fantastic T! The deal on the pied pair definitely balanced out. You absolutely can't go wrong there. A pied pair m/f for that price. Even if the ball python is a het pied! Congrats. Kudos to the breeder for releasing that info about the black pastel h/ pied.

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Originally Posted by Albert Clark

Fantastic T! The deal on the pied pair definitely balanced out. You absolutely can't go wrong there. A pied pair m/f for that price. Even if the ball python is a het pied! Congrats. Kudos to the breeder for releasing that info about the black pastel h/ pied.

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Yea I did a little bit of digging lastnight online and come to find out that Yes, Colin owns and opererates East Coast reptiles and is local to me right here in Virginia Beach but it was actually his friend Ian (who also works at or at least did at the time work at east coast) that actually produced the panda pied ... I guess it's not really that huge of a deal but I still think it's kinda of exciting and fun to know :gj: ... According to the breeder I got him from, the female that produced the male black pastel Het pied that I bought yesterday was a Hatchling direct from the the female that produce the first panda pied at east coast reptiles. On note of some more verifiable information, this line has some pretty strong odds, he said that the first clutch his female (my lil guys mom, she is a normal Het pied) produced was an 8 egg Clutch. Of those 8 eggs he hatched out 6 black pastel Pieds and 2 black pastels. What makes it more impressive is that the pairing was Black Pastel Het pied (male) X Normal Het pied (female)

@ T_Saur Amazing! Can't get much more reputable than Colin Weaver and East Coast Reptile Breeders. And Ian is at Outback Reptiles if my memory serves me correctly and their black pastel line is high quality. That sounds really good and I think you can rest assured on those fronts. Nice work and I can't wait to see these two put on size and produce for you. :gj: :gj:

If I remember correctly I believe I saw one of Colin's videos that said they work with the Barnhart line ... Does anyone know or have any information on the characteristics/features that make the Barnhart line?

Yeah, that Barnhart line of black pastel is pretty big and famous. I don't know too much about the characteristics except all of that line is considered superior.