help please, Bought a Piebald from Petsmart, something is not right.

Hi there!

I'm brand new to Ball Pythons. I bought one for my son a few weeks ago, fell in love with it and decided to get my own. I found a Piebald at Petsmart yesterday, but I think something is wrong.... Do I need to go to the vet already??? I don't know how to upload pictures, so here is a link to one.

https://goo.gl/photos/kT7YcWdvkz1e6aXj6

On the feeding chart they gave me it showed that she has only eaten one small mouse in 5 weeks. The last time she ate was 2 weeks ago. It doesn't surprise me that she won't eat right now since I just introduced her to her new home, but I'm not sure if it is going to be an ongoing problem.

I'm far from an expert, but that BP does not look right at all. The color if nothing else has me concerned. I'd at least get it looked at. I know the box stores have a health guarantee, but you'll want to have documentation to back it up just in case something is wrong.

Dave

Would help to see a picture of the belly. That's an abnormal coloration along the lower part of her body, but it's hard to tell much.

What do you think is wrong?

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Originally Posted by BallPythonNewbie

Hi there!

I'm brand new to Ball Pythons. I bought one for my son a few weeks ago, fell in love with it and decided to get my own. I found a Piebald at Petsmart yesterday, but I think something is wrong.... Do I need to go to the vet already??? I don't know how to upload pictures, so here is a link to one.

https://goo.gl/photos/kT7YcWdvkz1e6aXj6

On the feeding chart they gave me it showed that she has only eaten one small mouse in 5 weeks. The last time she ate was 2 weeks ago. It doesn't surprise me that she won't eat right now since I just introduced her to her new home, but I'm not sure if it is going to be an ongoing problem.

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The coloring is definitely off and doesn't look good. If it were me I would take it back to the store and get a full refund. Then shop around with a reputable breeder or go to a local reptile expo and buy another pied. Just my .02

Could that be a burn? Do you have a heat rock in her enclosure?

Did you examine the animal and bought it like this?

Or did you set it up using a heat source without a thermostat which led to this?

If number one bring it back, get a refund and buy from a reputable breeder.

If number 2, unplug your heat source, make a vet appointment, and do some research on proper setup and care.



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The animal is clearly unhealthy! However it does need to be determined when this happened and how. Petsmart does have a 2 week health warranty where the animal can be returned but it (warranty) is void if it's determined that the customer neglect was the cause. Pet smart has contracted vets so see what they say first.

Looks like a burn to me. Hope you take it to the vet. It's a beautiful snake but I personally wouldn't buy an animal of any kind from Pet Smart.

Would like to see better photos of it and enclosure......

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...-Post-Pictures

To me that looks like a burn like he was laying on too hot of UTH or on/against a heat rock. I'm in no way sticking up for box pet stores but I bought my little pied girl from a PetSmart by me and she was fine. She was scared and hadn't eaten for almost 3 weeks but other than that, looked fine. She was checked out by a well known reptile vet in my area so I was confident in her. She started pounding rats 2 days after I got her home and now just over a year later, she is a terror and destroys her cage and loves to explore. But anyways, it is probably different for each PetSmart but the local one here keeps their reptiles clean and stuff. The only downside is they usually keep them too cool.

So like Deborah said, if you bought the snake like that, take it back for a refund and do more research on what a pied should look like as well as symptoms of illnesses. And if you did it, then get a good quality t-stat and find a good reptile vet. Good luck.

Looks like a burn, and by the skin on its side and not only in its belly i'd assume it curled on a rock or something like that
Do you have a heat rock? a Ceramic lamp that can be reached by the snake?

It also looks a bit dehydrated...

I think I bought it like this, but didn't notice this until I took it out of the box when I got home. I did notice the dehydration, although I didn't know what it was until I looked it up. I thought maybe it was because it hadn't been eating very well (sorry- I'm super inexperienced!!) I do not have a heat rock, and it can't reach the lamp. She's in a 20 gallon long tank with a screen top. I'll take a picture of the enclosure, and another of the belly and try to figure out how to upload them here properly. If not, I'll just do another link.

I know normal people wouldn't spend that much money on an animal that looked dehydrated, but I'm a sucker for an animal in need lol. I was the kid that brought home all the baby birds that the mama kicked out of the nest and tried to nurse them back to health.

They did have a heat rock in the enclosure at Petsmart, although in person it doesn't really look like a burn- it's more on both sides than on the underbelly I think. When she's curled up its hard to tell that. I should also note that she is extremely active. I noticed her activity at the store, and they told me she is just always like that. When I got her all set up in the tank at home, she did settle down and go into the hide. Any time I bring her out, she starts cruising around again, even reaching to get out of my arms and onto my table/countertops/whatever I happen to be near.

more pics coming in a few minutes.

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Originally Posted by BallPythonNewbie

They did have a heat rock in the enclosure at Petsmart...

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Was it a heat rock or a rock hide? I've never seen a heat rock in a PetSmart store (and I've been in A LOT of PetSmart stores).

What are the temps in the hotspot and coldspot? Could be too hot or too cold.
What's the humidity? Although since you mention a screentop, i'm guessing it's very low. If you can't measure it, get a small tupper with a lid, put wet sphagnum moss in it (but not soaking wet), make a hole enough for her/him to get inside/out and put it in her/his tank.
Check it's weight, put it inside the tnak and leave it alone for a couple of days. Try to avoid the temptation of pick it up all the time. Let it calm.
If he eat at least once since you have it, don't panic.

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Originally Posted by Morke

get a small tupper with a lid, put wet sphagnum moss in it (but not soaking wet), make a hole enough for her/him to get inside/out and put it in her/his tank

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If indeed that is a burn on this snake, your above advice could be quite detrimental.

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Originally Posted by Eric Alan

Was it a heat rock or a rock hide? I've never seen a heat rock in a PetSmart store (and I've been in A LOT of PetSmart stores).

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I suppose it could have been. Not sure. I really don't care about placing blame on Petsmart, I like Petsmart. I just want to know what is wrong so I can fix it.

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Originally Posted by BallPythonNewbie

I suppose it could have been. Not sure. I really don't care about placing blame on Petsmart, I like Petsmart. I just want to know what is wrong so I can fix it.

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Honestly I would really consider returning the animal for a full refund. I know PetSmart has their 14 day return policy with living (and dead) animals.

To be honest, you probably overpaid by a heck of a lot because its a retail store. I know you want to fix it, but that shouldn't be your responsibility especially if you are the they sold it to you like this. If you keep it, chances are you will end up spending at least $100 if not a lot more to get proper medication that may or may not work.

If you want big chain stores like this to step up with their care of animals, people like you (nothing negative implied) need to tell them that it is unacceptable, and you need to return it.

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Originally Posted by BallPythonNewbie

I suppose it could have been. Not sure. I really don't care about placing blame on Petsmart, I like Petsmart. I just want to know what is wrong so I can fix it.

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No one is trying to place blame. We have plenty of anti-PetSmart threads on this Forum already.
What we're trying to do is get to the bottom of what might be wrong with your snake so you can get it some help.

Here is a link with some more pictures of the belly, and the enclosure. I don't know if those are good enough pictures either.... she is super squirmy. The temp under the lamp is 93 by the foliage hide, the temp by the other hide is 84. The humidity is 50. I'm using Eco Earth substrate, and there is a nice big water bowl for her to soak if she wants.

I bought her just before they closed last night, so she's only been in my enclosure for a little over 24 hours.

https://goo.gl/photos/QVdy5di85z7fKZrE7

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

Would like to see better photos of it and enclosure......

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...-Post-Pictures

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Thank you so much for the link with instructions! I followed them, but my pictures are too big. :-( My cell phone camera is broken, so I had to use the Nikon and then upload. It is easier for not to share the link.

https://goo.gl/photos/QVdy5di85z7fKZrE7

and I appreciate all the quick responses!! Thank you!

is the substrate moist? it could be transferring color onto the snake?

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Originally Posted by Slim

No one is trying to place blame. We have plenty of anti-PetSmart threads on this Forum already.
What we're trying to do is get to the bottom of what might be wrong with your snake so you can get it some help.

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and I thank you! I wasn't accusing- just making sure it was clear that I wasn't placing blame. My title sounds a bit "blamey" but I'm just trying to give all the info! lol

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Originally Posted by AbsoluteApril

is the substrate moist? it could be transferring color onto the snake?

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Yes it is moist, but this was there when I took her out of the box last night. They were using some sort of wood shavings at the store in her enclosure.

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Originally Posted by Montypython696

Honestly I would really consider returning the animal for a full refund. I know PetSmart has their 14 day return policy with living (and dead) animals.

To be honest, you probably overpaid by a heck of a lot because its a retail store. I know you want to fix it, but that shouldn't be your responsibility especially if you are the they sold it to you like this. If you keep it, chances are you will end up spending at least $100 if not a lot more to get proper medication that may or may not work.

If you want big chain stores like this to step up with their care of animals, people like you (nothing negative implied) need to tell them that it is unacceptable, and you need to return it.

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Forgive my complete ignorance, when I registered as "ball python newbie" I wasn't exaggerating lol. Aside from the health issues, can you tell me if I overpaid? I paid $429. I'm prepared for the truth (squinting and holding breath) lol.

I recently purchased a '14 Pastel Pied male for $400. For a normal pied, I think you overpaid by about $100, but prices range from a quick glance at Kingsnake.com for a Normal Pied female from just under $300 to over $400 - so it's all a matter of what catches your eye. As to the marks on her, I don't know enough to be willing to venture a suggestion, for the risk of being wrong.

For some reason I can't see your pictures when I click the links, but if these folks are saying it looks like burns, I would trust them. The people that have been around a while on this board are very knowledgeable!

As far as spending money to make your snakey better, I would (again) refer to everyone's advice here on the board and go ahead and return it. For one, I believe you overpaid, and for two, pet store snakes generally aren't cared for all that great. A reputable breeder is probably going to be your best bet as far as getting a new (healthy) pet.

I work in wildlife rehabilitation (have my whole life) so I totally understand and empathize with the need to help everything you can... However sometimes when something is beyond your scope of care (even baby birds need special diets!), it's best to start over with something healthy. A common animal-lover's mistake I see all too often is people who either find or take on a sick animal that unfortunately they know nothing about, and they want to learn how to care for the animal or nurse it back to health. This always leads to lots of money spent by you, and an even worse-off animal, if it survives at all. So keep your chin up, and keep your excitement about snakes--they are truly gems of animals to have the honor to care for. But what I would do is return this one since it's not healthy, do LOTS of reading and research, and get a perfect enclosure set up. THEN buy a healthy snake from the right source. I promise, you and the snake will be better for it!

:) Thanks for coming here, and continue your quest for a great snake and the wonderful hobby of caring for it!

Wait for people to get a look at the newer pictures you've put up before rushing that little Pied back to the store. Just a thought - those more extensive pictures give a better look at the situation than the first pictures did.

Yea, the recent photos you posted look less like a burn to me, and more like a discoloration... like color from something else "stained" your snake.

You can find good quality male pieds at expos starting around $250, and females starting around $350. Like said above, it's all about your personal liking. Some pieds are in the 3k-4k range, so it's all over the place. :)

Here - let me see if I can post those pictures for you...
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/L8...=w1270-h847-no
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/al...=w1270-h847-no
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/vV...=w1270-h847-no
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/cq...=w1270-h847-no
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/wY...=w1270-h847-no
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/3f...=w1270-h847-no
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/71...=w1270-h847-no
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/XR...=w1270-h847-no
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/27...=w1270-h847-no
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ul...=w1270-h847-no
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/VH...=w1270-h847-no

Ok, NOW I can see! I don't think those are burns, but if it's discoloration I'm wondering what it could be from?? Also this snake doesn't look as near-death as I was originally thinking... Granted I can't see the overall definition of the body. I don't think it looks terribly dehydrated, but it does look a little skinny.

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Originally Posted by O'Mathghamhna

Ok, NOW I can see! I don't think those are burns, but if it's discoloration I'm wondering what it could be from?? Also this snake doesn't look as near-death as I was originally thinking... Granted I can't see the overall definition of the body. I don't think it looks terribly dehydrated, but it does look a little skinny.

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Thanks for the reply, the first picture I posted the snake was coiled up and that discoloration was really prominent. I did notice the dehydration at the store, (wrinkly neck) but didn't know what it was. The feeding chart indicated that she ate a mouse 2 weeks ago, so I attempted to feed her as soon as I got her home before I put her in the enclosure. I expected that she may be too stressed to eat at that point, but I wanted to offer it to her because it had been so long since she ate. I'm going to let her get used to the new enclosure for a few days and then try feeding again. I think I'll go back up and take a second look at their enclosure too and see if there is anything that could have caused a stain. I'm sure they've cleaned hers out already, but I'll check out the others. All the snake enclosures were similar.

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Originally Posted by BallPythonNewbie

Thanks for the reply, the first picture I posted the snake was coiled up and that discoloration was really prominent. I did notice the dehydration at the store, (wrinkly neck) but didn't know what it was. The feeding chart indicated that she ate a mouse 2 weeks ago, so I attempted to feed her as soon as I got her home before I put her in the enclosure. I expected that she may be too stressed to eat at that point, but I wanted to offer it to her because it had been so long since she ate. I'm going to let her get used to the new enclosure for a few days and then try feeding again. I think I'll go back up and take a second look at their enclosure too and see if there is anything that could have caused a stain. I'm sure they've cleaned hers out already, but I'll check out the others. All the snake enclosures were similar.

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Two suggestions - one, wait a full week, and don't handle her, before trying to feed. Let her have time to adjust to the new environment without stress. I recently fed one of mine the day after I got her home... but she was incredibly comfortable and laid back, and was very interested when she caught a whiff of mouse on my way to feed the others. The second suggestion is, from what you said there it sounds like you you tried to feed her outside the cage. Don't do that - feed her inside the cage. It's less stress to her, and there's really no reason not to.

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Originally Posted by LittleTreeGuy

Yea, the recent photos you posted look less like a burn to me, and more like a discoloration... like color from something else "stained" your snake.

You can find good quality male pieds at expos starting around $250, and females starting around $350. Like said above, it's all about your personal liking. Some pieds are in the 3k-4k range, so it's all over the place. :)

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It also depends on if it's high, medium or low white. I still see high whites going for $500. I got my high white girl for $200 from PetSmart on a black Friday deal. They are getting cheaper though, they used to be thousands. As a side note, check out Scoria Boas. Those are hot including the price. I need to wait for them to become more common now :D

And I agree, now that I see better pictures, I don't think that's a burn either. Looks like a stain as well from substrate or paper or something. maybe the snake got into a cup of grape juice :P

Anyways since you're new, be sure to read the guide on cage set up for a 20g. It'll get you set up good.

I would still alert Petsmart of my dissatisfaction and ask that one of their contracted vets look at the snake and make a determination on what the condition is. Ask if they have a herp vet that can make the determination. You are the customer and you have certain rights once you purchase a product. Unfortunately I think it would be a mistake to keep the animal without taking him back to Petsmart for evaluation and treatment or a refund. No way should you spend that much money for a animal that is unhealthy and comes with baggage from day1! The onus is on Petsmart! I think this may be a early scale rot / scale irritation that will require some form of treatment even if it's just placing the reptile on paper towels until the condition resolves. I hope you plan to do a 90 day quarantine of him also if you decide to keep him. Make sure he doesn't come in contact with your other animals. I also think the pied may have a mite condition as evidenced by the red dots and raised scales. I could be wrong but it's something that should be suspected, Good luck. Stay in peace and not pieces.

I am wondering if that isn't staining from the substrate??

I want to second the mites.... There seem to be a lot of little red dots on the animal, including the top of the snake. My first thought was mites, the second was have you dampened a towel and run it over a section of that colouring? It almost looks like a FT feeder smeared on it, if you know what I mean. (I in no way mean rub it or bathe it, just a light check to see if its just a film on it.)

honestly, take it back and get it checked, or just take it back and get one from a better source. And I would trash the bedding and scrub everything that came in contact with it down, since Im almost positive it has or had mites.

Is it soaking in its water bowl?

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

I am wondering if that isn't staining from the substrate??

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Agreed.

Dave

Did it happen to be on repti bark while at the petsmart?

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After seeing the latest photos, I agree that the discoloration is most likely from the wet substrate.

Sorry if I kicked up a hornets nest by thinking it could be a burn. I was just concerned for your snake's health, and that first photo looked very similar to some burns we've seen around here before.

I saw the pics and right away I thought maybe mites also, besides the weird coloring, but I have never seen mites in person thank god. I am just wondering if there is any more information on if others see it also?

That speckle pattern does not look like mites to me. My piebald will get a few spots in her white just like that if she goes through a difficult shed (which happens in the winter sometimes). Usually after one good shed the speckles are gone. My guess there is poor humidity levels at the pet store leading to a bad shed that left behind some of those speckels. The other staining very much looks like it rubbed off from the substrate. Mites tend to be very defined black points.

Well all we can do is speculate on the condition/s. Observation and suspicion of different disease processes, scale staining, scale rot is all good but the definitive action is to take the animal back to Petsmart. You shouldn't have to settle for a less than healthy animal for that price. Reconsider this animal and shop right here on bp.net for healthy animals.

Where are you located? I agree with others. Take it back to pets mart and have them temporarily care for the little girl and explain the condition if really any before the 10 day guarantee return policy runs out. She does look a little thin. I also agree with letting her squirm through your hand with a wet towel to help determine either Mites or some sort of stained discoloration. I'm no expert just what advice I've received from this site has been golden for me and my reptiles.

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I always thought all white BP's turn pink before they are about to shed ??? IDK

They do tend to turn pinkish before shedding, but it would not be in blotches like this one.

I don't think that it's anything but staining, looking at the second pictures. It COULD be the beginning of a scale rot but considering how pristine the rest, especially the actual belly, looks, I think it's just a stain. If so, the first shed in a good environment will see all of it disappear.

Just my thoughts and I know I am a little late to the party. But I would agree with those who suggested the discoloration likely comes from the bedding. Cypress and other darker substrates can often stain light colored snakes like BELS and Pieds. I have seen specks like that associated with mites but also just irritation from bedding or a bad shed. I noticed this hasn't been posted on in a while curious how the snake is doing now


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Could be substrate stain or mild scale rot. Definitely second the person who said to run a damp towel over the "stained" spots.


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UPDATE:

I did decide to take the snake back to the store :-(. The discoloration- who knows, the spots- probably from low humidity as suggested, The wrinkles- Very dehydrated.

when I brought it back, I went straight to the othe snake enclosures just see what could have been the problem. The first thing I noticed was that my snakes enclosure had not been cleaned yet after 3 days!! The water was low and filthy. I was so enamored by the snake I hadn't paid attention. (A rookie mistake I will never make again).

Then I looked at the humidity- 0. I thought perhaps the hygrometer was broken..... Other enclosures were between 0 and 10. One poor baby pastel was curled up with some stuck shed in a bone dry enclosure.

I don't know the original reason for the dehydration, but Whatever the reason, the snake was too far gone for a few soaks. When I got home from work that third day, I could tell it was getting worse, so took it straight back. They told me they were taking it to the vet immediately..... I hope they did.

I pointed out the hygrometer readings on the other enclosures, but I'm not confident they believed I knew what I was talking about. I am new at this, but Google told me that much!

thank you all so much for your help. We will stick with our baby normal for now, and perhaps go to Arlington TX next week to check out some in person from people who know their stuff!! (I'm in Ft. Worth).

I'd find reptile shows to go to if u want more BPs
Youll find more reputable breeders at them and a huge selection!
Just my 7 cents hehe
Fingers crossed for you and your snake