Butter/Lesser/Mojave

First let me say i am fairly new to BP's..... and am thinking pf breeding in the near future...Ok so if the super form of all of these is a Blue eyed lucy. ..and if you breed any of them together u get blue eyed lucy...what is the difference in these genes...are they the same?? To me they all look very similar...how can u tell one from the other visually??

1. Super Pastel - X-Caliber
.1 Normal. Xena

Butter and lesser are the same, mojave are different, Google lesser ball python and mojave ball python, compare the images. The Super mojave doesn't even look like the super lesser. Definitely different genes

Butter and Lesser are the same thing :bolt: . Where as a Mojave looks nothing like a Lesser or Butter, ok well they shouldn't. The supers are similar but a super Mojave doesn't look like a super lesser or a lesser x Mojo super .

Here are a Lesser next to a textbook Mojave
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/h...psa3431b94.jpg

As stated, the Lesser is the exact same thing as a Butter.

A mojave X mojave will produce a blue eyed leucistic, but it'll have a gray head.
A Lesser X Butter, or Lesser X Lesser, or Butter X Butter is prone to have minor deformities -- not every time -- like larger eyes (bug-eyes), smaller eyes, or a duck bill shaped head/snout.

Most of what I have read states that a Mojave X Lesser BEL (or Mojave X Butter--same thing) produces the most white BEL. I've produced these, but not others, so I wouldn't know by comparison.

A Russo X Russo also produces a nice BEL.

I am getting 2 butters...well i was told a lesser and a butter but beings they are the same...i think i am going to look around and possible get at least one mojave...i LOVE the BEL's so if i ru n the risk of deformities ...would i be better off getting a mojave to breed with one of the butters?? Would that make it so there are no deformities?

1. Super Pastel - X-Caliber
.1 Normal. Xena

Quote:

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Originally Posted by robin.worden.65

I am getting 2 butters...well i was told a lesser and a butter but beings they are the same...i think i am going to look around and possible get at least one mojave...i LOVE the BEL's so if i ru n the risk of deformities ...would i be better off getting a mojave to breed with one of the butters?? Would that make it so there are no deformities?

1. Super Pastel - X-Caliber
.1 Normal. Xena

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Super lessers can rarely have a "Bug eyed" look to them. Its because of the scales on their heads get tweaked, kind of like how super cinni's can get the duckbill look because of the nose scales being deformed

Ok thats what i wanted to know...thanks sooo much...will post pics once i get them.tomorrow cant come fast enough

1. Super Pastel - X-Caliber
.1 Normal. Xena

Here are the pics i was sent of the 2 snakes i am getting

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10...501cf2f11d.jpg

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10...c308a742f8.jpg

I was told they believe one is a butter and the other a lesser

1. Super Pastel - X-Caliber
.1 Normal. Xena

Hey all, just joined the Forum today. New to the genetics so still figuring things out (i.e. forgive my ignorance!)...

Everywhere I look people talk about Butter and Lesser being varying expression of the same gene. Most agree, but some don't. This makes sense because even when you breed them into other genes they still look very similar, such as with Butter/Pastel/Spider and Lesser/Pastel/Spider (for example).

Butter/Pastel/Spider:
http://s27.postimg.org/ptcmc1u77/But...tel_Spider.jpg

Lesser/Pastel/Spider (lighting is different, but you can see how similar they look):
http://s27.postimg.org/jpv1s53xf/Les...tel_Spider.jpg


BUT!!!

If they're the same gene, can someone please explain this snake to me? How is this possible if Butter and Lesser are the same gene? Is this a "super" expression of the gene, but they're just not not calling it that in order to keep Butter/Lesser identified separately?

http://s27.postimg.org/ml84z07xf/But...tel_Spider.jpg

Thanks for any info!


1.0 Butter Ball Python
1.0 Butterbee Ball Python
1.0 Firefly Ball Python
0.1 Mojave Ball Python
1.0 Western Hognose
1.0 Mexican Black Kingsnake
2.0 Red Tail Boa (Imperator)

I believe the may mean butter or lesser. Queen bee is lesser, pastel, spider. It would be pretty much a white snake if it had lesser and butter.

Butter queen bee is a butter pastel spider. Some people differentiate between the two lines of the same gene. Which imo is unnecessary at this point. There are atleast two different lines of lesser and two different lines of butter and probably more. So that's at least 4 different lines of 1 gene with 2 different names.

I don't know why people think this stuff is confusing :rolleyes:

By lines, we mean:

Aaron discovers the gene in Albuquerque and calls it the A-gene.
Bob discovers the gene in Berlin and calls it the B-gene.

They are the same gene - both snakes will present with the same looks and the genes will act the same way when paired to other genes - but they are called different things depending whether they are descendants of the snake from Albuquerque or Berlin. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jase52

Hey all, just joined the Forum today. New to the genetics so still figuring things out (i.e. forgive my ignorance!)...

Everywhere I look people talk about Butter and Lesser being varying expression of the same gene. Most agree, but some don't. This makes sense because even when you breed them into other genes they still look very similar, such as with Butter/Pastel/Spider and Lesser/Pastel/Spider (for example).

Butter/Pastel/Spider:
http://s27.postimg.org/ptcmc1u77/But...tel_Spider.jpg

Lesser/Pastel/Spider (lighting is different, but you can see how similar they look):
http://s27.postimg.org/jpv1s53xf/Les...tel_Spider.jpg


BUT!!!

If they're the same gene, can someone please explain this snake to me? How is this possible if Butter and Lesser are the same gene? Is this a "super" expression of the gene, but they're just not not calling it that in order to keep Butter/Lesser identified separately?

http://s27.postimg.org/ml84z07xf/But...tel_Spider.jpg

Thanks for any info!


1.0 Butter Ball Python
1.0 Butterbee Ball Python
1.0 Firefly Ball Python
0.1 Mojave Ball Python
1.0 Western Hognose
1.0 Mexican Black Kingsnake
2.0 Red Tail Boa (Imperator)

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A Queen Bee is a Lesser Pastel Spider. A Butter Queen Bee is a Queen Bee with Lesser replaced by Butter. So a Butter Queen Be is a Butter Pastel Spider. They are just trying to let you know that they used Butter and not Lesser to make the Queen Bee.

Edit: Sorry for the duplicate answer. I responded before I saw OhhWhatALoser's reply on page 2.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aercadia

By lines, we mean:

Aaron discovers the gene in Albuquerque and calls it the A-gene.
Bob discovers the gene in Berlin and calls it the B-gene.

They are the same gene - both snakes will present with the same looks and the genes will act the same way when paired to other genes - but they are called different things depending whether they are descendants of the snake from Albuquerque or Berlin. :)

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Does that make the two I have of Eastern European descent? B = Butter = Berlin, right? ;) :gj:

Thanks very much Slowcountry Balls & OhhWatALoser; very helpful. I also got the same response from a couple breeders at the 2016 Atlanta Repticon convention.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

I don't know why people think this stuff is confusing :rolleyes:

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Just remember, some of us joined the community in 2016, not 2007 - silly goober. Greatly appreciate you sharing your knowledge with us dummies :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jase52

Just remember, some of us joined the community in 2016, not 2007 - silly goober. Greatly appreciate you sharing your knowledge with us dummies :D

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I was being very sarcastic lol. Trust me some of this stuff is still confusing for us who joined in 2007.

Slightly off topic, does the person you're getting these snakes from always drive around with snakes in his car.😂

Jack of all trades, master of none.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by crooner1981

Slightly off topic, does the person you're getting these snakes from always drive around with snakes in his car.😂

Jack of all trades, master of none.

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What? You don't???