Thermostat rant

So I joined a leopard gecko group and most of these people have no clue about thermostats and dot believe a word anyone says....god people drive me nuts sometimes....rant over

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Originally Posted by frostysBP

So I joined a leopard gecko group and most of these people have no clue about thermostats and dot believe a word anyone says....god people drive me nuts sometimes....rant over

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There is a belief that geckos' can live at room temperatures and don't require thermostat stable temperatures. Personally, if I owned geckos they would be living in thermostatically controlled environments. I wouldn't sweat that.:)

Yea I give them diagrams for prob placement and have them info right from spider robotics website on how to use and setup but im still wrong...

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Originally Posted by Albert Clark

There is a belief that geckos' can live at room temperatures and don't require thermostat stable temperatures. Personally, if I owned geckos they would be living in thermostatically controlled environments. I wouldn't sweat that.:)

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Leopard geckos? I keep mine with a 90 degree hot side (by using a thermostat!) and a cooler side. That's what I've always heard to do for them. Wonder why the forum doesn't believe in thermostats. Cresties on the other hand, I've always heard to just keep at room temp if it's between like 72 and 80 degrees F. Is that incorrect?

I'm also on a gecko forum, but don't use it very often because I feel like their info goes against everything I've learned here.

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Your right I am not liking the gecko forum at all and will probably be leaving it to save further frustration.

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Originally Posted by Megg

Leopard geckos? I keep mine with a 90 degree hot side (by using a thermostat!) and a cooler side. That's what I've always heard to do for them. Wonder why the forum doesn't believe in thermostats. Cresties on the other hand, I've always heard to just keep at room temp if it's between like 72 and 80 degrees F. Is that incorrect?

I'm also on a gecko forum, but don't use it very often because I feel like their info goes against everything I've learned here.

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Yeah, I think it's the cresties , I stand corrected on that. Thanks Megg.

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Originally Posted by Albert Clark

Yeah, I think it's the cresties , I stand corrected on that. Thanks Megg.

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I wish Leos were that simple, lol. I'd have a lot more if they didn't need heating and a thermostat!


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To be honest I had never heard of using a TSTAT for any reptile before I joined this Forum. I don't utilize a TSTAT for any of my lizards, I use overhead heating in the form of flood lights to create a basking spot, and all my lizards like it nice and hot so there is no worry about burning, I know this doesn't cross into geckos, but my point is TSTAT use isn't preached as widely as you would think.

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Originally Posted by jclaiborne

To be honest I had never heard of using a TSTAT for any reptile before I joined this Forum. I don't utilize a TSTAT for any of my lizards, I use overhead heating in the form of flood lights to create a basking spot, and all my lizards like it nice and hot so there is no worry about burning, I know this doesn't cross into geckos, but my point is TSTAT use isn't preached as widely as you would think.

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I think a large part of it is that the UTH manufactures don't say anywhere on their product that a thermostat is required- not that I've seen, anyways.


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The major difference is the use of racks for bps. Heating pads aren't going to melt a glass aquarium and kill everything in it. Same with basking lights. Racks can quickly become an overheated death trap if the t-stat fails in the on position. This is why back-up t-stats are a MUSTwhen using a rack. If the geckos are not being housed in a rack, then there are more options and more leeway for t-stat use.

I use a herpstat to control my overhead dragon basking lights. I do not use a back-up t-stat for them and the probe is inside an enclosure. Why? There's no danger to them or to the enclosures if the lights go on full blast due to a t-stat failure. I could just as easily use a rheostat for this purpose but prefer the precision of a t-stat.

TBH, I always tell people to get a thermostat because it makes me feel safer. But I kept a Leopard gecko for 8 years with nothing but a stick on heating pad and a humid hide in a 10 gallon and he was fine. I wish I woulda never gave him away lol.

In an aquarium the heat dissipates much quicker so as long as you check on your geckos daily to make sure that they aren't all hovering on the cool side (indicating it might be too hot and you should check on it.) then the chances for a crazy burn aren't quite as likely.

Had a glass exo-terra shatter on me due to not having it regulated. From that point TStats on everything including day and night lighting.

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How do you hook up a backup tstat? I am running a herpstat 1 on my rack but have been thinking of backing it up just in case. Has anyone had issues with the herpstats and could I back it up with a cheaper stat?

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Originally Posted by Bcycling

How do you hook up a backup tstat? I am running a herpstat 1 on my rack but have been thinking of backing it up just in case. Has anyone had issues with the herpstats and could I back it up with a cheaper stat?

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See here (with a picture!): http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?t=178944. :gj:

Yes, the backup is typically a cheaper (on/off) thermostat. I have yet to have an issue with a Herpstat (and they have great safety features built-in), but it certainly wouldn't hurt to have a properly running safeguard in place.

Trying to understand that diagram. So I plug my secondary "backup" into the wall, set it 4 degrees higher. Then plug my primary stat into the secondary stat. Is this correct so far?

then I only wire my heat tape to go into the primary correct?

Maybe I'm over thinking this or just too dense to understand the reasoning.

I use Herpstat 2's. After reading the thread Eric provided, it seems that you are just gambling on which unit will fail first, or conversely, which one you have MORE confidence in. It seems that if your secondary fails it may shut everything down. Thus, where's the back up to the backup? :D

Unless someone can dumb it down to me I see no reason for a back up to a Herpstat but maybe for other brands.
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/01...2137309132.jpg

There's a much greater risk when a thermostat fails in the on position than the off position. Herpstats are designed to fail in the off position. Cheaper stats typically fail in the on position. If the secondary fails in the typical manner here, the worst it would be doing would be supplying power to the primary Herpstat.

This kind of backup is designed to work if the primary were to fail in the on position. Since this is so unlikely with a quality stat like the Herpstats, I personally don't see much reason to back a Herpstat up. Would it hurt? No. Is it overkill? Possibly.

From Spyder Robotics: http://www.spyderrobotics.com/home/s...edocument.html.

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Originally Posted by Bcycling

Trying to understand that diagram. So I plug my secondary "backup" into the wall, set it 4 degrees higher. Then plug my primary stat into the secondary stat. Is this correct so far?

then I only wire my heat tape to go into the primary correct?

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Correct. The heat tape would be plugged into the primary thermostat. The exact setting on the secondary thermostat would need be played with to ensure it doesn't shut off the primary thermostat prematurely.

Ok I am new to owning a herpstat. Actually got it on a deal with four snakes, so it was used when I got it but works great. Eventually I will buy another one when I build a hatchling rack, but that's down the road. If I understand correctly if the herpstat were to fail it will do so in an off position? Also, what if the probe becomes unattached to the heat tape. Will the herpstat one shut off or run a lot of power to the tape?

Sorry if asking a lot of questions. I got back into snakes because my daughter saw 25 year old pictures of me with some hatchlings back when I was in high school. She thought it was so cool and wanted her own snake. Well now she is starting a breeding plan because I don't want to drop 300 to 400 on a bel, so she is going to try and produce a few of her own. I am saying all of this because back 25 years ago it was all lights and heat rocks, but I really love where the industry has come and am totally into it with her now. So I am like an old dog leaning new tricks.

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Originally Posted by Bcycling

Ok I am new to owning a herpstat. Actually got it on a deal with four snakes, so it was used when I got it but works great. Eventually I will buy another one when I build a hatchling rack, but that's down the road. If I understand correctly if the herpstat were to fail it will do so in an off position? Also, what if the probe becomes unattached to the heat tape. Will the herpstat one shut off or run a lot of power to the tape?

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All Herpstats are programmed to fail in the off position if the sensor goes bad. Most (4 of 6) Herpstats also have a built-in safety relay to cause them to fail in the off position in the event of a mechanical failure.

If the probe becomes detached from the heat tape, it will sense the lower temperature of the open air and increase power to compensate (probably wide open). That would be a user error - do everything you can to ensure this doesn't happen.

How do I know if the herpstat I have will fail on off position if it does fail?

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Originally Posted by Bcycling

How do I know if the herpstat I have will fail on off position if it does fail?

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What kind of Herpstat is it?

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Originally Posted by Reinz

Maybe I'm over thinking this or just too dense to understand the reasoning.

I use Herpstat 2's. After reading the thread Eric provided, it seems that you are just gambling on which unit will fail first, or conversely, which one you have MORE confidence in. It seems that if your secondary fails it may shut everything down. Thus, where's the back up to the backup? :D

Unless someone can dumb it down to me I see no reason for a back up to a Herpstat but maybe for other brands.

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Sure, here's it simplified. Your secondary (on/off) thermostat should always be on. If your primary fails in the "on" position, your secondary will turn power off to both. Gambling or confidence doesn't factor in here.

If the secondary fails in the "on" position, it doesn't matter because it's not providing heat to anything. It will simply allow your primary to continue functioning as normal. Your secondary should always be on anyways. Herpstat is reliable but should still be backed up. Losing a clutch of eggs or a rack of snakes in not a fun experience, especially when a fool-proof method of prevention is so easy and relatively inexpensive.

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Originally Posted by Eric Alan

There's a much greater risk when a thermostat fails in the on position than the off position. Herpstats are designed to fail in the off position. Cheaper stats typically fail in the on position. If the secondary fails in the typical manner here, the worst it would be doing would be supplying power to the primary Herpstat.

This kind of backup is designed to work if the primary were to fail in the on position. Since this is so unlikely with a quality stat like the Herpstats, I personally don't see much reason to back a Herpstat up. Would it hurt? No. Is it overkill? Possibly.

From Spyder Robotics: http://www.spyderrobotics.com/home/s...edocument.html.

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It's been a long day so I may not be reading correctly. What I'm taking away from your link though is that Spyder Robotics says that their Herpstats are inherently designed to fail in the "on" position (per the Triac component). They have taken steps to help prevent this in the higher end models but the default failure is still the on position regardless. They also give this prominent warning:

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Also keep in mind that even with the highest quality components ALL electronics have the possibility of failure.

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It then goes on to recommend backing Herpstats up with a secondary on/off.

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Originally Posted by Jabberwocky Dragons

It's been a long day so I may not be reading correctly. What I'm taking away from your link though is that Spyder Robotics says that their Herpstats are inherently designed to fail in the "on" position (per the Triac component). They have taken steps to help prevent this in the higher end models but the default failure is still the on position regardless.

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The Triac component itself is what could (not will) fail in the on position. It sounds to me like it could also fail in the off position - a much better alternative. In addition to the upgraded Triac, they have taken a few other steps to promote safety, such as the sensor error coding and relay I mentioned earlier which would lead to failure in the off position.

This is really interesting talk, but I find the second Tstat to be somewhat useless especially if it is of less quality then the primary one ? You talk that if that one fails it will fail in on, how can you be sure it as failed or not ? If it fails on "on" then if for some really bad luck the primary Tstat also fails you will still get the same problem ? Would it not be simpler to make sure the Tstat goes off if it does break ?

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Originally Posted by Ufoo9k

This is really interesting talk, but I find the second Tstat to be somewhat useless especially if it is of less quality then the primary one ?

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It's less quality because its purpose is not to control the temperature continually - that's what the primary does. It's only purpose is to prevent severe injury in the event of a failure (in the on position) of the primary thermostat.

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Originally Posted by Ufoo9k

If it fails on "on" then if for some really bad luck the primary Tstat also fails you will still get the same problem ?

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Exactly. It takes TWO failures for this to happen though, which is significantly less likely. ;)

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Originally Posted by Ufoo9k

Would it not be simpler to make sure the Tstat goes off if it does break ?

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Simple in theory, yes. In practice? Not so much... If it were, it would have been done already. :gj:

Thank you Eric and JD for the explanation.

I was under the impression that when the back up shut off or broke that no more power was supplied to the primary unit. Now knowing that this is not the case, I have a better feeling about back ups.
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/01...7cda8a317a.jpg

I have a herpstat 1.

Well then! We'll have to make it happen! I have 2 Tstat (1 rack and 1 for quarantine) and hope they are the off kind... Is there a way to know or it's a wish for the best situation ? I took the first ones I could find which are made for baby plants, there is not much info on them except that they control temperatures :\

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Originally Posted by Reinz

Thank you Eric and JD for the explanation.

I was under the impression that when the back up shut off or broke that no more power was supplied to thr primary unit. Now knowing that this is not the case, I have a better feeling about back ups.

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That is the case if the backup fails in the off position. :)

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Originally Posted by Bcycling

I have a herpstat 1.

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As long as it's the regular Herpstat 1, then it had the safety relay. If it's the Herpstat 1 Basic, then it does not.

I believe the sticker on the bottom of the unit will say one way or the other if it's the regular or basic model.

Ok as I read on I realize that I want a backup. Now I am still confused on how to do this. My herpstat is set to 92.5 which is giving me hotspots on my rack of anywhere from 89 to 91. It's an eight level xpvc rack I made. 11" flexwatt cut at 12" pieces at each level. It is parallel wired and sodderd. In theory will my back up on/off tstat have to be programmed at a higher or lower temp? I am thinking lower so it is always on providing my herpstat constant power. Am I thinking correctly?

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Originally Posted by Ufoo9k

Well then! We'll have to make it happen! I have 2 Tstat (1 rack and 1 for quarantine) and hope they are the off kind... Is there a way to know or it's a wish for the best situation ? I took the first ones I could find which are made for baby plants, there is not much info on them except that they control temperatures :\

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Chances are good that yours don't have the built-in safety features that higher-end thermostats have, which would make them more likely to fail in the on position should they fail.

I didn't think it was the basic, but it is. I just looked at the sticker. Says herpstat 1 basic. I will be backing it up but now I need to figure out how to do it and what to buy for a backup.

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Originally Posted by Bcycling

Ok as I read on I realize that I want a backup. Now I am still confused on how to do this. My herpstat is set to 92.5 which is giving me hotspots on my rack of anywhere from 89 to 91. It's an eight level xpvc rack I made. 11" flexwatt cut at 12" pieces at each level. It is parallel wired and sodderd. In theory will my back up on/off tstat have to be programmed at a higher or lower temp? I am thinking lower so it is always on providing my herpstat constant power. Am I thinking correctly?

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The backup would be set higher. If it were set lower, the backup would cut off power to the primary before the primary could reach its set temperature. How much higher? You'll have to play with it and figure it out.

Know of any decent inexpensive backup tstats?

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Originally Posted by Eric Alan

Chances are good that yours don't have the built-in safety features that higher-end thermostats have, which would make them more likely to fail in the on position should they fail.

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Thanks! The more you learn. I'll have to check where I can get a backup.... but I suppose I could use the ones I have as backup and get a herpstat when I can find one...

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Originally Posted by Bcycling

Know of any decent inexpensive backup tstats?

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Any non-proportinal thermostat with a wattage rating at or above your primary will work as a backup. The Herpstat 1 Basic is rated at 700W, so a Hydrofarm (which are rated at 1000W) would be fine.

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Originally Posted by Ufoo9k

Thanks! The more you learn. I'll have to check where I can get a backup.... but I suppose I could use the ones I have as backup and get a herpstat when I can find one...

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Gotta love a Herpstat! :cool:

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Originally Posted by Reinz

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/01...7cda8a317a.jpg

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You and your fancy Redline model. :P

Just looking on amazon but I don't see the watt rating on them

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000NZ...XDNCHY1SWZ45XY

Is this the one you are referring to?

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Originally Posted by Bcycling

Just looking on amazon but I don't see the watt rating on them

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000NZ...XDNCHY1SWZ45XY

Is this the one you are referring to?

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Yep - that's the one. The specs are in the product manual: http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81rF3YE328S.pdf.

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* Do not exceed a total of 1000 watts of heating devices plugged into thermostat.

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Great thanks. Here is another question. So I got 8 one foot strips of 11" flexwatt at 20 watts a foot. That's 160 watts. If I ever came to the point where I wanted to build another rack could I run them both off the one herpstat? Assuming I use the same length and type of flexwatt.

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Originally Posted by Bcycling

Just looking on amazon but I don't see the watt rating on them

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000NZ...XDNCHY1SWZ45XY

Is this the one you are referring to?

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That's the one I currently have !

So Eric Alan I could get Herpstat 1 or 2 no problem using this one as a backup ? Since they are 700/900watt, right ? Would it be best to get 1 herpstat 2 or 2 herpstat 1 ? Right now I have 2 of these, one for my rack of 1 (hopefully more in spring) and one for quarantine (a friends snake for now).

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Originally Posted by Bcycling

Great thanks. Here is another question. So I got 8 one foot strips of 11" flexwatt at 20 watts a foot. That's 160 watts. If I ever came to the point where I wanted to build another rack could I run them both off the one herpstat? Assuming I use the same length and type of flexwatt.

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Yes.

Great thread. Learned a lot! Thanks

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Originally Posted by Ufoo9k

That's the one I currently have !

So Eric Alan I could get Herpstat 1 or 2 no problem using this one as a backup ? Since they are 700/900watt, right ? Would it be best to get 1 herpstat 2 or 2 herpstat 1 ? Right now I have 2 of these, one for my rack of 1 (hopefully more in spring) and one for quarantine (a friends snake for now).

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The answer, as always, is it depends. If you're thinking "ultimate safety" (the theme of this thread), then you'd need to go with multiple Herpstat 1s and have a backup on each of them. Personally, I'd go with the Herpstat 2 for the price, convenience, reputation, and reliability that Herpstats have.

I'm not even sure how you'd begin to backup a Herpstat 2 or 4...