Clutch #2 Results post shed

Well here are a couple pics of our second clutch which was Vanilla X Fire. The results are 1.3 with two normal and two morphs. Both of the morphs are female. The questions is are they Fire or Vanilla? I think they are both the same and I am leaning towards Fire, but I'd appreciate any input from those with much more experience then I....wink, wink, nudge, nudge, Gale.

Thanks in advance for any help and thanks for looking

Whole clutch
[IMG]http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/...psppl0kzns.jpg[/IMG]

Female #1
[IMG]http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/...pshuksfijs.jpg[/IMG]

Female #2
[IMG]http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/...ps6rqsa9d9.jpg[/IMG]

I agree on them being fires.

i see fire on left but the other could be vanilla. pictures of parents will help a lot

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Originally Posted by darkranger69

i see fire on left but the other could be vanilla. pictures of parents will help a lot

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The female is deep in shed right now but as soon as she finishes I will take a side by side photo of them. I posted this thread of the parents when I first paired them.

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...ghlight=creamy

The first photo has the male Fire on the left and the female Vanilla on the right. About 7 or 8 posts further down the thread is a side by side picture, but the female is glowing as she hadn't ovulated yet so it isn't really a fair comparison.

Here is a photo I shot today as the female just finished shedding. 0.1 Vanilla on the left and 1.0 Fire on the right. Again, I appreciate anyone's input who has some experience with both morphs.

[IMG]http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/...psw9eotnqv.jpg[/IMG]

Regardless, you have some pretty snakes there Riditmars! :)

Congrats!

So hard to tell the difference I'm pretty scared of not being able to tell the difference when I breed my vanilla cream this year

I am leaning toward two vanillas actually:O

after seeing the parents pictures, i change my opinion: fire on right, vanilla on left

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reinz

Regardless, you have some pretty snakes there Riditmars! :)

Congrats!

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Thank you

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BumbleB

So hard to tell the difference I'm pretty scared of not being able to tell the difference when I breed my vanilla cream this year

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I just don't want to mislead anyone when I sell them. Value wise they are equals, but from a breeding plan scenario they are night and day. I may have to let them grow up a little.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kibbleswhites

I am leaning toward two vanillas actually:O

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You may be right. They seem to be getting a little more golden colored since they shed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by darkranger69

after seeing the parents pictures, i change my opinion: fire on right, vanilla on left

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You're not really helping. LOL No, I appreciate your opinion but that is what I am struggling with. I keep going back and forth.

Boy this one is really close.

My gut instinct is to say "Vanilla" instantly. BUT that is because my own fire babies were BRIGHT yellow when they hatched. However, I know not many of them are that bright at birth, a lot are much darker yellow to orangeish when they hatch.

It also makes things more difficult that your vanilla has so much blushing. Normally the "fire blushing" is the giveaway in babies. But with yours, you can't use the blushing because your vanilla has so much.

How old are these guys? How many sheds have they had? Generally speaking, the older they get and the more sheds they have, the easier it gets to say which is which.

After spending some time studying the pictures, and going back through pictures of my own babies. I am leaning towards them being vanilla. I can't say just why, it's really kind of a combination of things, but yes, I think they are vanilla.

Now, if it is possible to keep them for a few more sheds, it should be much easier to say with confidence what they are.

Gale

Quote:

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Originally Posted by angllady2

Boy this one is really close.

My gut instinct is to say "Vanilla" instantly. BUT that is because my own fire babies were BRIGHT yellow when they hatched. However, I know not many of them are that bright at birth, a lot are much darker yellow to orangeish when they hatch.

It also makes things more difficult that your vanilla has so much blushing. Normally the "fire blushing" is the giveaway in babies. But with yours, you can't use the blushing because your vanilla has so much.

How old are these guys? How many sheds have they had? Generally speaking, the older they get and the more sheds they have, the easier it gets to say which is which.

After spending some time studying the pictures, and going back through pictures of my own babies. I am leaning towards them being vanilla. I can't say just why, it's really kind of a combination of things, but yes, I think they are vanilla.

Now, if it is possible to keep them for a few more sheds, it should be much easier to say with confidence what they are.

Gale

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Thank you Gale. Because they both look to be the same gene, it is difficult to say which. I was really hoping to get two animals that were so drastically different it left no doubt.

These just hatched on the third and shed on the twelfth. They haven't even had their first meal yet but I intend to try tomorrow. I have no problem hanging on to them for a shed or two if that makes it easier to more positively identify. I would rather hold them for a while and sell them as the correct gene they are, than sell someone the wrong animal and mess up their breeding plans. I am also leaning towards vanillas now as they seem to be turning a little more golden color. I also thought if they were fires they would be brighter as the male was very bright when I first received him at about 120 grams. If these are both the same gene which they sure appear to be, it means one of the parents threw nothing but the normal gene.

It happens hon. My husband had a 7 egg clutch from a lesser to a pastel, 7 normals. I kid you not. He was dumbfounded. But yes, it does happen.

I'd say by their 3rd or 4th shed, which is usually when they are ready for sale, you should know beyond a doubt what they are.

Gale