Question about probe placement of Herpstat 4

Hello All,
I have a under the tank heat mat coming from Boaphile Plastics. It is the 1.5X. I do have a question about probe placement. Since the enclosure sits right on the surface, I am assuming I cannot place the probe directly on the heat tape. Instead, I plan on putting the probe directly on the floor of the enclosure above the heat mat and under the substrate. Is this a good method to keep the heat tape at a constant 90 degree F? Please, let me know your thoughts.

Probably not the best method. Your snake will most likely end up knocking the probe out of place and you could end up with a burnt snake. I would attach the probe directly to the heat tape on the outside of the enclosure.

You do not want the probe to be inside on the floor. If it is moved, flooded by water, or flooded by urine the probe will send the tstat the information that it is cold and needs more power. This of course is wrong and will make the uth ramp up and get to hot, possibly hot enough to harm your snake.

You want to mount the probe to the heat mat itself and have both outside the cage.

Most cages will have small feet that act as spacers. This allows your heat mat and probe to sit under the cage without any issues. You want to mount the heat mat directly to the bottom of the cage tightly with tape of some sort. I like the aluminum A/C tape. Its rigid, tough, and heat tolerant.

If the cage does not have space under it and instead sits flat on the surface below you can use the small rubber inserts usually used to place glass on top of table stands or other table tops. Cheap and easy.

You absolutely want the probe to be flush up against the heat mat. This is the only way to efficiently regulate the temps. Just as a side note, be sure NOT to put any tape directly on the probe itself, rather tape the cord down onto the mat. Only use aluminum tape as well.

What will the tape on the probe do? That has been the way that I have placed the probe on my python's floor heat.

Thank you all for the responses!

I'm not sure where people get this idea that you cannot have any tape touching the probe. It's the most secure way to do things..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ouig7kXAFo 8:30 shows this perfectly, there are no problems.

Also, I believe the Manufacturers of Flexwatt actually recommend using duct tape over aluminium tape to secure the probe.

I found this, but I also believe they discussed it on a episode of Herpin' Time Radio awhile back

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru.../t-304298.html

If you look at the manufacturers directions from spyder robotics they directly state to not put any tape on the probe itself as it can cause temperature fluctuations.

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Originally Posted by JoshSloane

If you look at the manufacturers directions from spyder robotics they directly state to not put any tape on the probe itself as it can cause temperature fluctuations.

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Taken from Spyder Robotics site.

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Do not apply aluminum tape directly to the probe tip. This will cool down the probe tip causing invalid readings.

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And now that we know that the manufacturers of heat tapes don't recommend aluminium tape at all, there should be no confusion.

A bit more evidence of this

https://www.facebook.com/FlexwattHea...25326447481198

No, the directions do not say to not use aluminum tape at all, it says to not use it on the probe tip. Those are two very different things.

Spyder Robotics, maker of thermostats, says do not use Aluminium tape on their thermostat probes.

Calorique, Maker of flexwatt heat tape, says do not use aluminium tape with their product.

The evidence speaks for itself.

Nowhere do either of these two entities warn of the dangers of taping a thermostat probe (not the cord) directly to the heating element.

We live in a world where McDonald's has to warn us that coffee is hot, don't you think if it were dangerous to tape a probe directly to heat tape, that they would make this clear?

i would bet that 99% of people on this site tape the probe to the heat tape using aluminum tape. Guess we are all wrong.

Well, you know what they say about assumptions.

I am not trying to argue. I'm just trying to prevent the spread of misinformation. Because in my experience, there is no negative consequence of taping a probe directly to a heating element. And all evidence I have found tells me that I would probably get a more precise reading by doing so.

After all, we're supposed to be measuring the temperature of the heat tape, right? Not the air around it.

Any tape over the probe itself will act as a barrier to the sensitivity and temperature regulation of the probe to the thermostat.

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Originally Posted by tbowman

Well, you know what they say about assumptions.

I am not trying to argue. I'm just trying to prevent the spread of misinformation. Because in my experience, there is no negative consequence of taping a probe directly to a heating element. And all evidence I have found tells me that I would probably get a more precise reading by doing so.

After all, we're supposed to be measuring the temperature of the heat tape, right? Not the air around it.

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Dear god, I am agreeing with you. I tape the cord of the probe to the heat tape, allowing the probe tip to freely touch the heat tape.

I have no tape over the probe itself.

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Originally Posted by Albert Clark

Any tape over the probe itself will act as a barrier to the sensitivity and temperature regulation of the probe to the thermostat.

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We've had this discussion before, but I'll reiterate my point.

Once again, I am not saying to wrap the probe in tape. I am saying a single piece of tape, placed flat over top of the probe onto the heat tape. As demonstrated clearly in the YouTube link I provided.

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Originally Posted by JoshSloane

Dear god, I am agreeing with you. I tape the cord of the probe to the heat tape, allowing the probe tip to freely touch the heat tape.

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So do you agree with the technique shown in the YouTube link I provided? If so then we are done here.

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Originally Posted by tbowman

Spyder Robotics, maker of thermostats, says do not use Aluminium tape on their thermostat probes.

Nowhere do either of these two entities warn of the dangers of taping a thermostat probe (not the cord) directly to the heating element.

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What?:evileye:

Did your reading comprehension get turned off?

As you already quoted.
"Do not apply aluminum tape directly to the probe tip"
It very clearly states to not place the tape directly to the probe TIP, nothing more. Nowhere on that page does it state that aluminum tape should not be used as you have asserted.

You are spreading misinformation stating aluminum tape should not be used and that taping the probe tip is fine even after YOU quoted the manufacturer says not to do so.

I just took the back off my pvc rack. The temperature recorded by the thermostat probe was half a degree different than the temp of the probe tip recorded by my Infrared gun. I have a two inch piece of tape over the cord, not the probe.

Aluminum tape is commonly used to tape down heat tape to the rack itself. I fail to see how taping the CORD of a probe could hurt.

lol you cannot be serious.

Once again, Spyder Robotics says not to apply ALUMINIUM tape to their probe tips.

Flexwatt IS saying Calorique, the manufacturer of Flexwatt does not recommend the use if aluminum foil tape with its heat tape products.

Nowhere does either company say DO NOT USE CLEAR PLASTIC MAILING TAPE, OR DUCT TAPE to secure the probe tip directly to the heating element.

I have also shown you that very experienced people have being doing it exactly this way for literally decades.

If you still think it's dangerous or inaccurate, then by all means continue doing it your way. But you shouldn't continue to dogmatically state that it is wrong, if all available evidence shows otherwise.

Here is a photo of the way my thermostat is setup. And I can assure you that I am getting accurate readings

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i2...C02CED3A39.jpg

I am done.

I never said what you did was dangerous. Simply stated what I and many others use. Most pro built racks come with the heat tape foil taped down.

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Originally Posted by tbowman

Once again, Spyder Robotics says not to apply ALUMINIUM tape to their probe tips.

Flexwatt IS saying Calorique, the manufacturer of Flexwatt does not recommend the use if aluminum foil tape with its heat tape products.

Nowhere does either company say DO NOT USE CLEAR PLASTIC MAILING TAPE, OR DUCT TAPE to secure the probe tip directly to the heating element.

I am done.

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You keep highlighting the wrong word but at least you corrected yourself about what S.R. actually states.

Before you're done can you show me where either company says to use clear plastic mailing tape or duct tape? Im seriously asking in a sarcastic way.:D

The issue I see with both of those options is how they get brittle and weak with time, especially adding heat to them. Im sure they work fine for you but I do believe that the aluminum tape is a better choice and will out last the other two tapes mentioned.

I too am not trying to say that what you are doing is dangerous.

Upon further reading, flexwatt's claims against the aluminium tape seem to be in regards to securing the tape to the rack.

I cannot find anything where either company specifically states the use of clear mailing tape, or duct tape, for probe placement. (although this is done by several experienced herpers)

What I did locate for you is an excerpt from the Herpstat 1 manual wherein Spyder Robotics recommends against using aluminium tape with their product in general, which you claimed was not the case.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i2...92/Capture.png

In which case, my point remains clear.

There is no evidence to support the claim that securing the probe the way Ralph does in that video will provide false readings.

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Originally Posted by tbowman

Upon further reading, flexwatt's claims against the aluminium tape seem to be in regards to securing the tape to the rack.

I cannot find anything where either company specifically states the use of clear mailing tape, or duct tape, for probe placement. (although this is done by several experienced herpers)

What I did locate for you is an excerpt from the Herpstat 1 manual wherein Spyder Robotics recommends against using aluminium tape with their product in general, which you claimed was not the case.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i2...92/Capture.png

In which case, my point remains clear.

There is no evidence to support the claim that securing the probe the way Ralph does in that video will provide false readings.

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You still have no evidence of anything. All that excerpt shows is the same thing they express on their site, it is just missing the word TIP. That way they keep noobs from covering the tip and getting incorrect readings. Sometimes it is easier and safer for a company to make a blanket statement instead of explaining something. That way they can not be sued by people with bad reading comprehension that cover the entire probe tip and harm their snake.

What? Whenever I leave out the word "tip" I have poor reading comprehension and have no idea what they mean. Yet when they clearly recommend against using aluminum tape to secure the probe, it's because they just forgot to include the word?

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Originally Posted by tbowman

What? Whenever I leave out the word "tip" I have poor reading comprehension and have no idea what they mean. Yet when they clearly recommend against using aluminum tape to secure the probe, it's because they just forgot to include the word?

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You have read what SR wrote in the way that fits your needs for your case here.

Seems that Josh and I plus countless others know what SR meant by their warning and we have had great success with the aluminum tape without issue.

You use your mailing and duct tape and we will use our aluminum tape.

If you have never tried the aluminum tape you may give it a try. It is super strong and comes off clean unlike duct tape. It also does not become brittle like mailing tape so easily does. Give it a try, you just may like it.

Now that the dead horse is SUPER dead I will leave you all to play with tape, probes, and snakes.

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Originally Posted by KMG

You have read what SR wrote in the way that fits your needs for your case here.

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I have read what they said in the exact way that they posted it

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Originally Posted by KMG

Seems that Josh and I plus countless others know what SR meant by their warning and we have had great success with the aluminum tape without issue.

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I never said you can't use it, or even that you'll have issues when using it. The only thing I'm saying is that you haven't provided any links to anything in which either of these two manufacturers ever recommend that you use foil tape. and I have provided multiple instances where it has been recommended against.

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Originally Posted by KMG

Sometimes it is easier and safer for a company to make a blanket statement instead of explaining something.

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You're right. In that case, wouldn't their recommendation be this?

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Do not apply any tape directly to the probe tip. This will cool down the probe tip causing invalid readings

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Rather than

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Do not apply aluminum tape directly to the probe tip. This will cool down the probe tip causing invalid readings

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I'm not the only one reading things in a way to make them fit my argument.

This is argument is not winnable by either of us. And truthfully, I have nothing against the use of foil tape.

What I'm worried about is people telling others that it's dangerous to tape the probe tip directly to the heating element, which it is not.

That's all.

I put my probe inside the enclosure, and then cover the probe and wire in water proof epoxy. Gives me the best result. This is an a PVC enclosure.

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Originally Posted by tbowman

What I'm worried about is people telling others that it's dangerous to tape the probe tip directly to the heating element, which it is not.

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When I have suggested mounting a probe I also suggest aluminum tape so I believe it should be added to not tape the tip since SR makes it a point to say it.

With other tapes if there is no issue with taping the probe tip that's fine and of course the caution of taping the tip is unwarranted and therefor un-needed.

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Originally Posted by KMG

When I have suggested mounting a probe I also suggest aluminum tape so I believe it should be added to not tape the tip since SR makes it a point to say it.

With other tapes if there is no issue with taping the probe tip that's fine and of course the caution of taping the tip is unwarranted and therefor un-needed.

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Very well.

My initial argument was not with you. It was with somebody saying "no tape on the probe directly" and that aluminium tape is the only option.

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Originally Posted by JoshSloane

be sure NOT to put any tape directly on the probe itself, Only use aluminum tape as well.

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Originally Posted by tbowman

Very well.

My initial argument was not with you. It was with somebody saying "no tape on the probe directly" and that aluminium tape is the only option.

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True. I was late to the party.

You and I seem to be on the same page.

:gj: