Possible Hard Choice Concerning My BP

This has been posted on another forum, and will be copy-pasted here to get more opinions. I basically want to know if other people feel he could still rebound and go back to normal if I just give him time and wait until I'm living somewhere at least semi-permanently or if I should give him up to an experience ball python owner. Over the past year or so, he has shown some improvement in his eating habits, but the fact he's losing more weight now than I've ever seen him lose in the past is the #1 reason why I'm considering re-homing him. It just seems that because he can't continue eating reliably that maybe it's taking a toll on his health. THIS IS NOT ABOUT GETTING HIM EATING AGAIN I HAVE NOT HAD A PROBLEM WITH THIS SO FAR. Just in case people think I'm asking how to get him eating again, I've gotten him eating again after each strike, I am not worried about getting him to eat. I am more worried about the long-term negative health effects this many strikes are having on his body. That's it.

COPY-PAST POST BELOW:

My ball python's terrible feeding habits over the past 3 years has me coming to a decision that maybe rehoming him to someone who has steady living may be the best thing to do for him if I can't get him to eat regularly again. I've had him almost 9 years, got him September 23, 2006 as a baby. The first 5-6 years I had him, he ate reliably, winter or summer, but when I made my first move fall of 2013 that's when his bad feeding has started.

The majority of his strikes seem stress-related, each strike has began each time I've moved or changed his enclosure, and once when he escaped his tub. The other two were when I was changing his food source. His longest fast was 8 months long, and shortest was 2 months.

I have feeding records of him since May 2013, and there's only 18 months where he's eaten at least once a month (he gets fed biweekly). Before I began my records, he'd been through 1-2 fasts as well and had lost a noticeable amount of weight. His current fast has been 97 days long, and he's lost at least 10% of his weight. All his other fasts he lost less than 10% of his weight after a 6-8 month fasting period, so the fact he's already lost that much after maybe 3 months is worrying me. He doesn't seem to be holding onto weight as well as he used to, which could be because he's refused so much food over the past 3 years. He's the lightest weight he's ever been recorded at since I began taking his weight in July 2013 (he was 1277 grams at the end of his fast).

He's been to the vet and doesn't have any illnesses or parasites that they can tell. It's been a year or two, so I could take him again and get him tested but I doubt there's any differences. He's eating a bit better now than when I was taking him to the vet.

Right now, I'm thinking of just caving in and getting a few live mice and/or a live rat and see if he'll eat them next week. I'd wait longer, but he's losing weight faster than I've seen him do in the past. He gains weight quickly when he does eat as well, taking only 2-3 months to get back up to regular weight and then he holds steady.

My main problem is we still plan on moving in the next 2-3 weeks, we're just waiting on word that our background check went through. Then in the next 5 years we hope to move out of state if possible, or at least buy a house in-state to live in permanently. I've already moved twice in 3 years, and Bud is the only snake that has been affected by me moving. All the other snakes either haven't been affected by the big moves (Cloud and Draco), or haven't shown sensitivity to the usually big stress events like shipping and thus I have a reasonable guess that future moves won't bother them as long as there's a decent amount of time between them (Demigod and Sanji for shipping and River and Nymeria for long car rides).

He ate for 9 months in the current set up he's been in, all through the winter, spring, and part of summer. Nothing about his husbandry or set up has changed at all, he began refusing food after I offered him a rat after eating mice for 8 months. He ate a rat once, after eating a mouse first, but after that he's turned his nose up at both mice and rats. At times he shows interest, he'll stick his head out and flick his tongue when I tap it on the ground outside his hide, but beyond inspecting it he won't do anything. He'll even push his nose up against it in its fur, then turn around and go back into his hide and refuse to come back out. Other times, he'll start roaming when he smells the food, but completely ignore the rat/mouse and climb right out of his tub as soon as I lift a corner.

If he doesn't take live, I don't know what else to do, I know I can get him eating again eventually that's not a problem, but I don't know how long he'll eat before he refuses again. If this was just a once a year thing, for a few months, that would be one thing, but he goes on fasts multiple times a year with differing lengths. They do seem stress-related, which means I basically have to step on egg-shells to keep him eating, which makes it harder to keep him eating because he's so sensitive.

I do not handle him at all anymore, only to do cage maintain, and he's allowed to sit curled up in a hide while I do my work. That seems to be really helping to get him to eat reliably, but doesn't stop all his fasts.

So now I need to decide if I want to find him a home with a more experienced ball python owner, where maybe his stress won't be triggered as much, or if I should wait a few years and see if he'll go back to normal when I'm no longer moving around. I want what's best for him.

Temps and humidity are the same they've been for 3-4 years, since I began actually monitoring my snakes' husbandry: 85-90F hot spot, 80F cool end during summer and 75F cool end during the winter and 50-65% humidity. His bedding is the same as well. I measure temps both on the surface with a temp gun and just above the bedding with a thermometer/stat probe. Humidity is measured only on the cool end, from just above the bedding to 1/2" off the bedding to ensure it's far enough away from the bedding to get the humidity in the air. I also measure his body surface temp at his head, belly, and back with the temp gun. So I'm 99.99% sure everything's accurate, all his fasts seem stress-related only, with only a few being related to food source changes, I have no reason to suspect it's husbandry-related atm.

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Originally Posted by CloudtheBoa

This has been posted on another forum, and will be copy-pasted here to get more opinions. I basically want to know if other people feel he could still rebound and go back to normal if I just give him time and wait until I'm living somewhere at least semi-permanently or if I should give him up to an experience ball python owner. Over the past year or so, he has shown some improvement in his eating habits, but the fact he's losing more weight now than I've ever seen him lose in the past is the #1 reason why I'm considering re-homing him. It just seems that because he can't continue eating reliably that maybe it's taking a toll on his health. THIS IS NOT ABOUT GETTING HIM EATING AGAIN I HAVE NOT HAD A PROBLEM WITH THIS SO FAR. Just in case people think I'm asking how to get him eating again, I've gotten him eating again after each strike, I am not worried about getting him to eat. I am more worried about the long-term negative health effects this many strikes are having on his body. That's it.

COPY-PAST POST BELOW:

My ball python's terrible feeding habits over the past 3 years has me coming to a decision that maybe rehoming him to someone who has steady living may be the best thing to do for him if I can't get him to eat regularly again. I've had him almost 9 years, got him September 23, 2006 as a baby. The first 5-6 years I had him, he ate reliably, winter or summer, but when I made my first move fall of 2013 that's when his bad feeding has started.

The majority of his strikes seem stress-related, each strike has began each time I've moved or changed his enclosure, and once when he escaped his tub. The other two were when I was changing his food source. His longest fast was 8 months long, and shortest was 2 months.

I have feeding records of him since May 2013, and there's only 18 months where he's eaten at least once a month (he gets fed biweekly). Before I began my records, he'd been through 1-2 fasts as well and had lost a noticeable amount of weight. His current fast has been 97 days long, and he's lost at least 10% of his weight. All his other fasts he lost less than 10% of his weight after a 6-8 month fasting period, so the fact he's already lost that much after maybe 3 months is worrying me. He doesn't seem to be holding onto weight as well as he used to, which could be because he's refused so much food over the past 3 years. He's the lightest weight he's ever been recorded at since I began taking his weight in July 2013 (he was 1277 grams at the end of his fast).

He's been to the vet and doesn't have any illnesses or parasites that they can tell. It's been a year or two, so I could take him again and get him tested but I doubt there's any differences. He's eating a bit better now than when I was taking him to the vet.

Right now, I'm thinking of just caving in and getting a few live mice and/or a live rat and see if he'll eat them next week. I'd wait longer, but he's losing weight faster than I've seen him do in the past. He gains weight quickly when he does eat as well, taking only 2-3 months to get back up to regular weight and then he holds steady.

My main problem is we still plan on moving in the next 2-3 weeks, we're just waiting on word that our background check went through. Then in the next 5 years we hope to move out of state if possible, or at least buy a house in-state to live in permanently. I've already moved twice in 3 years, and Bud is the only snake that has been affected by me moving. All the other snakes either haven't been affected by the big moves (Cloud and Draco), or haven't shown sensitivity to the usually big stress events like shipping and thus I have a reasonable guess that future moves won't bother them as long as there's a decent amount of time between them (Demigod and Sanji for shipping and River and Nymeria for long car rides).

He ate for 9 months in the current set up he's been in, all through the winter, spring, and part of summer. Nothing about his husbandry or set up has changed at all, he began refusing food after I offered him a rat after eating mice for 8 months. He ate a rat once, after eating a mouse first, but after that he's turned his nose up at both mice and rats. At times he shows interest, he'll stick his head out and flick his tongue when I tap it on the ground outside his hide, but beyond inspecting it he won't do anything. He'll even push his nose up against it in its fur, then turn around and go back into his hide and refuse to come back out. Other times, he'll start roaming when he smells the food, but completely ignore the rat/mouse and climb right out of his tub as soon as I lift a corner.

If he doesn't take live, I don't know what else to do, I know I can get him eating again eventually that's not a problem, but I don't know how long he'll eat before he refuses again. If this was just a once a year thing, for a few months, that would be one thing, but he goes on fasts multiple times a year with differing lengths. They do seem stress-related, which means I basically have to step on egg-shells to keep him eating, which makes it harder to keep him eating because he's so sensitive.

I do not handle him at all anymore, only to do cage maintain, and he's allowed to sit curled up in a hide while I do my work. That seems to be really helping to get him to eat reliably, but doesn't stop all his fasts.

So now I need to decide if I want to find him a home with a more experienced ball python owner, where maybe his stress won't be triggered as much, or if I should wait a few years and see if he'll go back to normal when I'm no longer moving around. I want what's best for him.

Temps and humidity are the same they've been for 3-4 years, since I began actually monitoring my snakes' husbandry: 85-90F hot spot, 80F cool end during summer and 75F cool end during the winter and 50-65% humidity. His bedding is the same as well. I measure temps both on the surface with a temp gun and just above the bedding with a thermometer/stat probe. Humidity is measured only on the cool end, from just above the bedding to 1/2" off the bedding to ensure it's far enough away from the bedding to get the humidity in the air. I also measure his body surface temp at his head, belly, and back with the temp gun. So I'm 99.99% sure everything's accurate, all his fasts seem stress-related only, with only a few being related to food source changes, I have no reason to suspect it's husbandry-related atm.

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Not sure if your other snakes are ball pythons. However what your describing in all my years of owning ball pythons sounds like typical ball python behavior. I had a ball python do almost the same thing as yours. In-fact he went on strike for 7 months once, I had offered him food every week even took him to the vet and nothing was wrong with him health wise. I really wouldn't be to concerned as long as the temp/humidity is correct.

I guess you're using mobile then? All my snakes, their names, their species, and year of birth are in my sig. :)

Bud is the only ball python I own, the rest are of varied species.

I do know that fasting is a normal behavior for them, which is why I haven't been worried about it until now.

The part that doesn't sound normal is the fact that he goes on fasts so often and his level of stress tolerance is ridiculously low. Simply picking up his hide requires a 1-2 day cooling down period, and handling is 2-3 days.

That said, this isn't unheard of just not common. I don't know if I've seen a ball python spend most of its time fasting. It's only in the past year or so he's been eating regularly, and I think it's party because of the addicting nature of mice and partly because I limit handling.

His fasts alone don't worry me, I've learned to deal with them however irritating they may be. It's the sudden increase in weight loss that's giving me a red flag. He shouldn't have lost 10% of his weight in only 3 months.


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I just took an updated weight of him and he's fallen from 1242 to 1198 grams in about a month. Here's his body tone. It's not well. He's very thin and his skin is sagging.

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/08...114e3fc4dd.jpg

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/08...c14df2a682.jpg

I'm going to get some live ASAP and if that doesn't work he's getting either force or assist fed.


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Sorry it was actually 1237 grams since the 8th of this month.


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I will agree that maybe he's stressed out more then he should be.. the pictures of him IMHO don't look like he's on the verge of dying. I personally wouldn't be concerned as I've seen ball pythons and other snakes that I've adopted from people who weren't properly caring for them and their skin look like it does when a BP doesn't fully shed where there are actual wrinkles. I'm not saying not to be concerned because of his common food strikes.. Maybe hold him more often.. You said you don't hold him anymore and maybe he's just not used to change. BP's are nocturnal and typically lazy my dad doesn't like them because he thinks because they don't come out of their hides during the day when he comes over and looks inside the tub that they aren't as sociable as my kingsnake and gopher snake that poke their heads out to see whats going on.. So as far as him not coming out very much that is totally normal. If all temps/humidity levels are proper and there is no signs of any kind of infections i'd say just hold him once or twice a week and see if that doesn't help. Maybe someone else could have some other advice. However I don't think you should have to adopt him out because it seems to me your doing just fine.. Oh and no i'm not on mobile i'm at work and clicked send on accident. before I had typed my message..

He's now lost 13.1% of his weight. In only 3 months. That's a lot in so short a time. He's gone 8 months and lost less than 10% of his weight, that's a huge difference in weight loss.

He's out all the time now day or night, has been for awhile. I just choose to feed him when he's in a hide because he's usually more inclined to eat if he isn't active.

He's not on the verge of dying but he is underweight and losing weight at an abnormal pace, which is the only reason I am considering force or assist feeding at this time. Other than the weight loss he appears perfectly healthy. His skin tone is healthy, he's not wrinkly, and there's no other signs of illness. There very well could be something going on internally though.


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When he's not on strike what was he eating? Mice or Rats? and how often? Some BP's are picky eaters.. A friend of mines wouldn't take rats and I've heard people say that theirs wont take mice or even a different color rat or mouse. Maybe your is just that kind of special. It may be a case of just trying different things. However just know my first BP ever went 7 months w/o eating and she didn't look like she had been on strike that long. Assist feeding could be an option but i'd personally try other things first.. hopefully he decides to get off the food strike soon.

He was raised on rats, then I used mice to get him eating again. He ate mice for 8 months before I tried rats again. He ate a mouse and then a rat in one feeding and nothing since then.

He was fed bi-weekly.


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Just like to say that i'm a final fantasy fan and realized one of your snakes name is Cloud Strife lol.. and my kingsnakes name is Draco.. My hunter on world of warcraft is Cloud his pet is Strife lol I dont list the Kingsnake and Gopher snake on my signature because this is a ball python forum.. anyways back on topic. i'd say dont give up on your baby! and dont give him up for adoption because someone who might know more isn't going to get him eating again just because that person knows more. its more about trying change. I realize your gonna move again.. but start holding him. maybe that will help..

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Just like to say that i'm a final fantasy fan and realized one of your snakes name is Cloud Strife lol.. and my kingsnakes name is Draco.. My hunter on world of warcraft is Cloud his pet is Strife lol I dont list the Kingsnake and Gopher snake on my signature because this is a ball python forum.. anyways back on topic. i'd say dont give up on your baby! and dont give him up for adoption because someone who might know more isn't going to get him eating again just because that person knows more. its more about trying change. I realize your gonna move again.. but start holding him. maybe that will help..

I think you and him will both be fine. He doesn't look bad to me at all.

If you say you're planning to move in a few weeks and will be there for awhile, I don't see the difference between that or sending him to live somewhere else.

I would be more concerned with the fact that interstate transport of retics will likely be prohibited by the time you make the move out of state.

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Originally Posted by CloudtheBoa

He was raised on rats, then I used mice to get him eating again. He ate mice for 8 months before I tried rats again. He ate a mouse and then a rat in one feeding and nothing since then.

He was fed bi-weekly.


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I would not try "bi-weekly" for an adult. Try giving him a week or 2 before feeding again. Always seems to work for me. Plus BP's are known to go off feed for months at a time. Just give it some time and see if that works.

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Our girl stella is very picky with her food... like we have to feed her a few sizes under what she is supposed to be getting, she gets about 4 mice instead of the small rat she should be on... try sticking with the mice since that was working till you tried switching to rats.

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Originally Posted by CloudtheBoa

His fasts alone don't worry me, I've learned to deal with them however irritating they may be. It's the sudden increase in weight loss that's giving me a red flag. He shouldn't have lost 10% of his weight in only 3 months.

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Are you sure he didn't poo or pee out some urates? Did he shed or anything?

Your snake looks okay to me. It sounds like you're just feeding FT and will be trying live. I'm sure when you offer live he'll be fine.

Have you tried anything besides rats or mice? Some of them like things like chicks and/or quails. I've had a couple on fasts who I offered an FT chick to and it got them going again.

Try something different like a FT chick. Then if that doesn't work, do live for a few months to get him going again and gaining some weight.

I definitely wouldn't rehome him yet. He's not doing terrible at all. You clearly are attached to him, and honestly, you're probably far more frustrated and affected than he is by this.

Go live! Try a mouse or small rat first, and then move up from there. The killer instinct might take a little while to kick in - Ginger needed 20 - 30 minutes to realize that she was going to kill her food, after only knowing f/t.


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Just remember, once your snake eats live, it can be quite a challenge getting him/her back to frozen/thawed. Make sure you have an available source of live rats near you.


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Originally Posted by tbowman

I think you and him will both be fine. He doesn't look bad to me at all.

If you say you're planning to move in a few weeks and will be there for awhile, I don't see the difference between that or sending him to live somewhere else.

I would be more concerned with the fact that interstate transport of retics will likely be prohibited by the time you make the move out of state.

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I'm hoping by then they'll be removed, but of they aren't then I'll find a place to live here. It's not happening any time soon. There are also breeders that are allowed to ship out of state so maybe I could find one if it comes to that and see if they'll ship her to my new place. Then again, I'm not sure if those exceptions are only temporary.

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Originally Posted by berriosderick

I would not try "bi-weekly" for an adult. Try giving him a week or 2 before feeding again. Always seems to work for me. Plus BP's are known to go off feed for months at a time. Just give it some time and see if that works.

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That's what bi-weekly is, he was fed every 2 weeks. I offer food to him on a variety of weekly and bi-weekly schedules now that he's fasting. I'm trying just mice at the moment, but he just isn't interested. He's losing so much weight I don't feel comfortable just waiting him out.

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Originally Posted by 200xth

Are you sure he didn't poo or pee out some urates? Did he shed or anything?

Your snake looks okay to me. It sounds like you're just feeding FT and will be trying live. I'm sure when you offer live he'll be fine.

Have you tried anything besides rats or mice? Some of them like things like chicks and/or quails. I've had a couple on fasts who I offered an FT chick to and it got them going again.

Try something different like a FT chick. Then if that doesn't work, do live for a few months to get him going again and gaining some weight.

I definitely wouldn't rehome him yet. He's not doing terrible at all. You clearly are attached to him, and honestly, you're probably far more frustrated and affected than he is by this.

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Yes I haven't seen so much as a urate in a few weeks. He's been clear of feces for awhile now. On top of that, he's losing visible body tone which is why I weighed him last night, he looked even worse than at the beginning of the month. He last shed July 5, he's not due for one for at least another month or two, he only sheds every 3-4 months.

No I did have some frozen chickens but they died from a possible bacterial infection so I didn't feel comfortable feeding them. I've only tried mice and rats so far.


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Originally Posted by pbyeerts

Just remember, once your snake eats live, it can be quite a challenge getting him/her back to frozen/thawed. Make sure you have an available source of live rats near you.


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Oh trust me I know this. He was raised on live for 5-6 years, and it took me 1.5 years to get him to switch to f/t.


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Oh boy......


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Bi-weekly can mean appearing or taking place every two weeks or twice a week [emoji16]

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Well in the reptile husbandry aspect it usually applies to a 14-day schedule. Sorry if it was confusing that's just how I'm used to it being used. None of my rodent-eaters get fed any more often than 7 days.


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Hey CtB, sorry to see and hear of the dilemma. The bp does look good from the pics. I know you have the numbers on his weights and all but on the outside looking in he does appear toned and healthy. Just out of curiosity, what type of substrate are you using for Bud? You mentioned "bedding " before but not what type. Maybe that needs to be looked into? I know you are a very experienced reptile keeper and I am not going to bore you with a bunch of suggestions! Just two, haha. Substrate and assist feeding. Switch to 100% cypress mulch right away. If that doesn't work after 4 days of him being on the mulch and you think you may want to assist feed, DON'T... Tube feed instead and its less stressful and is a lot quicker to accomplish. Oh, if you decide on rehoming call me first, you have my email address. I actually am swamped right now with some new garters and bp hatchlings but I want to help. Good luck and stay in peace and not pieces! :)

He's on EcoEarth, his current bedding does need to be swapped out so maybe some new bedding will help idk. I haven't seen any evidence of it helping in past fasts, but who knows with ball pythons? It seems his eating habits change daily, it's hard to keep up.

I don't think I'll rehome him with all the weight he's losing, but thanks for the offer. :)

I'm going to call the vet tomorrow and see what they can do. I'm just scared I'm putting his life in danger doing it because I've heard some horror stories, but at the same time he probably needs the resources that a vet can offer.

I probably need to have fecals, x-rays, and blood tests done. But before a fecal can be done he needs to eat however it's accomplished.


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Originally Posted by CloudtheBoa

He's on EcoEarth, his current bedding does need to be swapped out so maybe some new bedding will help idk. I haven't seen any evidence of it helping in past fasts, but who knows with ball pythons? It seems his eating habits change daily, it's hard to keep up.

I don't think I'll rehome him with all the weight he's losing, but thanks for the offer. :)

I'm going to call the vet tomorrow and see what they can do. I'm just scared I'm putting his life in danger doing it because I've heard some horror stories, but at the same time he probably needs the resources that a vet can offer.

I probably need to have fecals, x-rays, and blood tests done. But before a fecal can be done he needs to eat however it's accomplished.


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Well, ok. Just take the time to read the story by Colin Weaver of East Coast Reptile Breeders called " the enigmatic ball python appetite". He addresses several cases of inappetance by ball pythons and the effects of 100% cypress mulch . The story is "must read" for all bp owners. Good luck with the vet and keep us updated. :gj::gj:

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Originally Posted by CloudtheBoa

He's on EcoEarth, his current bedding does need to be swapped out so maybe some new bedding will help idk. I haven't seen any evidence of it helping in past fasts, but who knows with ball pythons? It seems his eating habits change daily, it's hard to keep up.

I don't think I'll rehome him with all the weight he's losing, but thanks for the offer. :)

I'm going to call the vet tomorrow and see what they can do. I'm just scared I'm putting his life in danger doing it because I've heard some horror stories, but at the same time he probably needs the resources that a vet can offer.

I probably need to have fecals, x-rays, and blood tests done. But before a fecal can be done he needs to eat however it's accomplished.


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I was going to suggest a vet. Maybe parasites, or some other trouble inside (do snakes get cancer?).
Are SURE the temps are good? Just wondering if maybe you have another thermometer to double check, incase the equipment is malfunctioning.

My third suggestion is a long shot, but everyone seems to be at a bit of a loss here anyway....Do you have a separate enclosure or tub (or another place in your living space) that you could move him to? Maybe something about his current enclosure, the people can't sense, is bugging him.

Good luck.

Yeah snakes get cancer. He's rather young to be getting cancer but could have a congenital defect. Who knows? Best to check than regret it later.

Yes I'm sure temps are good, I've checked it with three different monitoring equipment, one being a mercury thermometer. His body temps are within acceptable ranges.

I don't have another enclosure to put him in unless I was willing to take him to my father's, where my second 6' enclosure currently is. And he's...not the best person to entrust the care of my snake to.

I plan on buying some PVC enclosures but vet costs are going to make that possibility a no go. I'd be surprised if I spent less than $300 when all is said and done. Even if I could still get them, I've heard it takes 6-8 weeks on average for them to arrive. So it still wouldn't be an immediate solution.


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So I ended up deciding to wait to take him to the vet until I found out if he'd eat live or not. He ended up eating 2 live mice Saturday, so now I wait and see if he'll gain weight back.

I just really didn't want to risk the vet unless absolutely necessary. :/


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Don't see anything wrong with that snake.
If his habits bother you to the point you feed you need to force feed an adult ball, then its time you found someone that can handle him.
My male spider that only eats a couple rats a year would drive you to the grave.

I'm sorry but his feeding habits do not force me to the point I feel I need to force feed him, thank you.

I have put up with a lot of fasts over the past 3 years, and after the first couple I gave up worrying. Just offered until he ate again. Sure, it was irritating but it no longer drove me up the wall.

You know what HAS upset me? Coming close to losing 20% of his weight in only 3-4 months. He has never been this light since becoming an adult, and even after going on an 8 month strike he STILL didn't lose this much weight.

I gave him live before attempting to force feed and would not have done it until he became emaciated. I just felt if he continued to lose weight as quickly as he was it may become necessary soon.

But thanks for the condescending words.


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Originally Posted by CloudtheBoa

I'm going to get some live ASAP and if that doesn't work he's getting either force or assist fed.

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I think your Ball Python looks fine and I wouldn't worry since he's eating live now.

PitOnTheProwl is one of the most condescending people on this forum. It's not uncommon to see him demeaning another member here.

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

??

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See how it says if live doesn't work? That means that assist or force feeding is my last resort. So not sure why there's confusion?


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Originally Posted by Galaxygirl

PitOnTheProwl is one of the most condescending people on this forum. It's not uncommon to see him demeaning another member here.

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If the truth hurts then by all means feel free to report me to an Admin. :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Or maybe start reading before you jump on people?

Context is rather important.


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Originally Posted by CloudtheBoa

See how it says if live doesn't work? That means that assist or force feeding is my last resort. So not sure why there's confusion?

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I was not confused. Your snake goes no hunger strikes, he still has good mass and look.
I don't see a reason to stress an adult snake that is/has eaten.

Well seeing as I wasn't going to force or even assist feed unless needed, then yeah there was no need to say what you did, and it shows an amount of confusion to ignore the rest of the context that would have cancelled out everything you said.

He is definitely not in good form. He's not deathly thin, but he's on the thinner side of a what a bp should be. Give him another month or two and he would have become emaciated or at least very close. He was losing too much weight too fast.

He's ok as long as he gains his weight back but he should not have this body tone all the time. He looks more like a boa constrictor than a ball python right now.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by CloudtheBoa

He is definitely not in good form. He's not deathly thin, but he's on the thinner side of a what a bp should be.

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Mine are on the fatter side for males and yours is close to the weight of most of my middle sized males.
Many of the breeders I know have males in the 800g to 1000g range, just like people they all vary but I don't see him starving himself to death either.

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

If the truth hurts then by all means feel free to report me to an Admin. :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

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I think a simple "He really doesn't need to be put through a force feeding" would suffice. Not "You obviously can't handle owning a ball python and need to give it away to someone competent".

This isn't about "the truth". It's about a grown man taking the fun and learning experience out of this hobby by calling many people, and sometimes kids that are here to learn, stupid and incapable.

CloudtheBoa, when in doubt go to the live mice. If he's refusing live too THEN I would get worried about his weight loss and lack of interest in eating. Sounds like you've solved your issue already, though.

I'm glad he ate for you CtB. My king hadn't eaten in 9 weeks and had lost a bit more weight than usual during his seasonal fasts. He took a live mouse tonight too. Sometimes that kick starts their appetite and they'll get back on track. Best wishes with your guy. Keep us posted.

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Originally Posted by Galaxygirl

I think a simple "He really doesn't need to be put through a force feeding" would suffice. Not "You obviously can't handle owning a ball python and need to give it away to someone competent".

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Please don't put words in my mouth, IF you are going to quote me do it correctly and verbatim. Thank you

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Originally Posted by Galaxygirl

This isn't about "the truth". It's about a grown man taking the fun and learning experience out of this hobby by calling many people, and sometimes kids that are here to learn, stupid and incapable.

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Again, your ignorance supersedes you. I have no reason to blow rainbow smoke, nor do I breed unicorns.
You are also correct as you are only 2 years older than my son, maybe you should callus up a little and learn to take it blunt once in a while.

CloudTheBoa posted about making choices with this ball, my answer is my opinion. I'm not going to type a book about it.

I'm not sure what sex my bp is, he could very well be a she. His average weight when eating, which is a small rat every 2 weeks, is 1380 grams. So I assume that's his healthy weight as it takes little effort to get him to that weight and he holds steady when he gets there.

He took live and I'm leaving it at that. I won't be doing anything extreme because it's no longer necessary.

And my rehoming idea is for his health not my state of mind. It seems that his eating habits are taking a toll on his body, and if he's as easily stressed as this, then being overloaded with stress from all the moves cannot be good for him either.

I can deal with his feeding strikes as long as he's healthy.


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Most likely a male since it is so small. I had a male go without eating for a year. Yup you read right, 12 months. Tried everything, nothing worked. Even tried assist feed at one point, that was a joke. One day, bam, took a frozen thawed like he never quit. It is a ball python. They do these things. Mine lost weight and looked saggy also. Worrying wont make him eat. Forcing him or stressing him wont make him eat. You are lucky he decided he wanted a mouse. Mine would not eat anything. Not even a live ASF. Not for an entire year.

I've heard of female bps as small as he is. I keep him lean though so I bet if he'd eat enough to put on the weight I could actually easily get him to breeding female weight. Got a very short, stocky, wide tail, but I do realize that isn't 100%.

Either way I know I'm lucky he's decided to eat. He's always come around at some point. As long as a constant state of food refusal won't cause long term negative health effects I guess I'll just deal with it, as I said its about his health, my irritation with him doesn't matter. Haha


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Well he took a few f/t mice with gusto today. He was being really loud slamming things around in his tub for several days, I kept thinking someone was throwing rocks at my trailer or something...I could hear him all the way across the trailer! So I decided to try him with some f/t mice since he seemed to be so "starved" even though I just moved him to the trailer a few days ago and I expected him to take longer to settle in. Ripped them right out of the tongs and gulped them down as quickly as possible. Now to see how long he takes f/t for.

I'm hoping he'll take f/t rats, otherwise I'll have to buy his jumbo mice from Layne Labs to keep him on mice. Big Cheese's jumbos are too small.


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Congrats. :gj::gj:

Sounds like things are moving in the right direction - hooray!! [emoji216]


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Pamela and GINGER, my wonderful BP

1 dog, 3 cats, 1 macaw, 1 husband, 1 daughter, and GINGER [emoji216]


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Yeah but if history is anything to go off of he'll refuse f/t again when he's got a few more meals in him. I hope not though.


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