Spider Wobble Question

So I have the opportunity to get a nice jump on a breeding project by picking up the following:
1.0 Bumble Bee
0.1 Bumble Bee
0.1 Lemon Blast
0.1 Mojave

I'll add this to my 1.0 Banana

So here's the question. How concerned should I be about Wobble? None of these are pure Spider, but I have my concerns.

Dave

Whether they are pure spider or not, ALL spider morphs have the wobble. It effects individually. I have a female queen bee who barely has a wobble, my male spider het pied has a bad wobble, but I have seen all different levels o the condition.

The wobble isn't as bad as it may seem. I have noticed that my snakes that have the wobble (woma ball pythons included) that the wobble is only noticeable when they have to lift their heads up or when they climb down and they start to cork screw<--- that is my spider het pied. Those who don't have it as badly, their head will shake <--- that is my queen bee. When their head is level with the ground, you wont even notice the wobble.The good news about this is that it does not effect their feeding. Never have I heard that the wobble was so bad that the snake could not eat.

The wobble in my opinion is not something we really need to worry about.

Spider and their combos wobble, they ALL do to a different degree from hardly noticeable to train wrecks. Train wrecks can produce mild wobbler and vice versa, things such as stress and temps may affect this condition as well.

How concern should you be? The majority of spiders and combos do just fine.

OK. All that works for me. Now, as far as future plans as a hobby breeder do you like these snakes? I know the "breed what you like" rule, and I like the odds of what I can get here, especially with my love of yellow morphs, but I'd like experienced opinions. My other options are:

1.0 visual vpi axanthic
0.1 100% het vpi axanthic

I know these are exactly opposite of what I am looking for, but in the long term offspring need to be marketable. Are these two snakes something that you would consider over the others?

Thanks,

Dave

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Originally Posted by AKA Dave

1.0 visual vpi axanthic
0.1 100% het vpi axanthic

I know these are exactly opposite of what I am looking for, but in the long term offspring need to be marketable. Are these two snakes something that you would consider over the others?

Thanks,

Dave

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Personally I never cared for axanthics just to produce more of them, I did however picked up a male Pastel Axanthic to work into my Pied projects.

Do axanthics sell? I think nice axanthic combos do, plain axanthic will be harder to move just like plain hypo are hard to move however the combos are not.

Nice group of snakes. Don't worry too much about wobble. Most don't seem to be very bad, and all of my spiders do just fine. However, you should look up some videos of the wobble on YouTube. That shows you the biggest train wrecks possible. Keep in mind most are nowhere near that level, but you should be aware of what it can look like. Most of my spiders just get a bit excited at feeding time. One shakes his head when he sees a rat, one moves a little strange when she's agitated, one tilts her head and one balls up a little weird. Really more of a strange quirk than a major concern.

Personally, I love bumblebees. I'd add a bit of fire in the mix and make it even better. I think spiders are dramatic enough to appeal to beginners and are a classic in combos... can you tell I really like spider? You have a banana male, so I'd pair that to the mojave. Can't go wrong there in my opinion, though mojave bumblebees are nothing to sneeze at.

I wouldn't get the axanthics. They brown out with age and I'm personally not a fan. I don't really see the point of getting all axanthics and het axanthics out of the clutch anyway... some variety is nice. If I were buying, I would get the spider group. You can get more possibilities there and I think it would be more interesting.

I happen to like axanthics, that is why it is so personal. You may have two customers that you are attempting to sell axanthics to but only one will be interested. It is up to you whether you like it or not. No matter what morph you get, some will be harder to sell then other, especially depending on the demand of the morphs where you are located.

Maybe someone else can back me up with this but it's generally accepted that you shouldn't breed spider to spider and therefore spider combo to spider combo. Many believe that it is a fatal combo so you might end up with alot of dead eggs

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Izzys Keeper

Maybe someone else can back me up with this but it's generally accepted that you shouldn't breed spider to spider and therefore spider combo to spider combo. Many believe that it is a fatal combo so you might end up with alot of dead eggs

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

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Just incase that was in your plans with the bumble bees

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Izzys Keeper

Maybe someone else can back me up with this but it's generally accepted that you shouldn't breed spider to spider and therefore spider combo to spider combo. Many believe that it is a fatal combo so you might end up with alot of dead eggs

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

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There's currently no proof of this. It's possible it's lethal as nobody has made a homozygous spider, but it's pretty debatable. I believe OWAL was doing some sort of project trying to figure it out, but I can't quite remember.

I managed to luck out and the very first spider combo I purchased is an absolute trainwreck. It doesn't effect his quality of life, and besides being a charming little odd ball, he's totally fine. He sired my first clutch of eggs, eats pretty well (though I don't give him live, because his aim can be kind of off when he gets excited). Have a video of him "dancing" in his tub for reference. I adore this little weirdo!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpxerTSCCGI

Hope the video worked, haven't tried to post one before. Sorry if it doesn't work or if I'm not allowed to!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Penultimate

There's currently no proof of this. It's possible it's lethal as nobody has made a homozygous spider, but it's pretty debatable. I believe OWAL was doing some sort of project trying to figure it out, but I can't quite remember.

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There no hard proof of either side of the debate. My last spider to spider breeding had an egg go bad early in development. 3 eggs did hatch, 1.1 spider and 1.0 normal. I will be raising up the female and see what she produces.

After everything I have read and all the rumor I have heard, my advise would be if you are worried about producing less offspring, I wouldn't suggest breeding spider to spider. However there is a sever lack of spider x spider breeding records, so I'm sure the community would love to see the results if you wanted to be adventurous.

I'm not opposed to it, and the possibility of producing a Killer Bee is intriguing. Of course now there is a new wrinkle in these plans. A male lesser and a female pastel yellow belly just became available to me. So is the new plan

1.0 Lesser
0.1 Pastel Yellow Belly
0.1 Mojave
0.1 Lemon Blast

and add this to my 1.0 Nanner? The Lesser X Mojave is something I'd love to see if I can hit a BEL.

Dave

0.1 Mojave and 0.1 Lemonblast are on the way. Have yet to decide about the others.

Dave

I know this thread has taken a left turn somewhere, but I feel the need to vent now. Plans have been thrown out the window, totally. I had made a deal for the 0.1 Mojave and the 0.1 Lemonblast that I was supposed to pick up this weekend. The seller literally sold the Lemonblast out from under me and when I called him out on it said he would no longer do any business with me at all because of my poor attitude. Yeah, he's just a small local breeder about 2 hours away from me so I can deal with the loss of a contact, but the total douchery and lack of professionalism just really irritates me. Same guy that had the Bumble Bees too so I guess it's time to close this thread out.

I'll be picking up the 1.0 Lesser and 0.1 Pastel Yellowbelly today instead. I'd be better off with a two gene 0.1 Mojave anyway and another Lemonblast down the road. Repticon is only 3 months away.

Dave

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AKA Dave

I know this thread has taken a left turn somewhere, but I feel the need to vent now. Plans have been thrown out the window, totally. I had made a deal for the 0.1 Mojave and the 0.1 Lemonblast that I was supposed to pick up this weekend. The seller literally sold the Lemonblast out from under me and when I called him out on it said he would no longer do any business with me at all because of my poor attitude. Yeah, he's just a small local breeder about 2 hours away from me so I can deal with the loss of a contact, but the total douchery and lack of professionalism just really irritates me. Same guy that had the Bumble Bees too so I guess it's time to close this thread out.

I'll be picking up the 1.0 Lesser and 0.1 Pastel Yellowbelly today instead. I'd be better off with a two gene 0.1 Mojave anyway and another Lemonblast down the road. Repticon is only 3 months away.

Dave

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Was this only a verbal made deal? Unless you had a deposit put down, that's not really considered unprofessional. I guess unless he said he would hold them for you, but as a seller that would be stupid on his end. Never hold anything without a deposit or you will more than likely be disappoint with the general public's unreliability.

That may be true, and perhaps I was naive on my end. I do take people at their word. Yeah, it burns me sometimes, but I like having a little bit of faith in my fellow man. It's just who I am. The deal was verbal and no request for a deposit was made. I surely would have had no problem with it if it were. He understood that I was to pick them up this weekend. I'm just glad I didn't make the 2 hour drive to find out the snake I had been promised was no longer available.

Dave

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/08...a071d6028a.jpg My bumblebee she has very bad wobble and lately she's been in a :cens0r::cens0r::cens0r::cens0r:ty mood...I was holding her other day she got really tense and striked...