BP help needed

I ordered a og online on July 2nd he's about 2 months old, I'm worried since he hasn't eaten at all. I've tried live mice>dead mice, and thawed rats. He showed some food response but never acted was just scared or when left in didn't bother with it. When should I consider assist feeding? Or should I move him to a plastic tub? If so how do you set one up for heat since I do live in a very harsh winter weather state? I'd hope worse case scenario he hasn't eaten for 3 weeks and just worried for him. He still has some girth but I can tell it isn't as big. He does have a small dent near his tail, which someone said could be constipation but it's pretty small and I feel a bath would stress him out a lot. He's very used to his cage, he has a 20 gallon long, newspaper, 85 degree heat, log hiding spot, he even uses the newspaper for it, and I plan to raise his humidity. I know bp are picky eaters, but I'm not sure when is too long especially since he's so young. Any help would be massively appreciated.

He was shipped in only two weeks ago so it's not surprising he's not eating yet.

The seller (Snakes at Sunset) advised to feed him live fuzzy mice. Most babies start on live large-ish fuzzies or small-ish hoppers. I wouldn't fool with f/t or rats until he's taken at least three meals.

A 20-long tank is way too big and open for a baby, he was probably in a 6 qt shoebox tub before you got him. What he needs now is a small latchbox tub (these have lids that are more secure than regular tubs if you're not using a rack), heat pad with thermostat set so his belly heat is 86-87*F under 1/3 of the tub, some aspen to burrow under, a small hide, and a water bowl. I would also cover it with a small towel or piece of newspaper so it's nice and dark.

Leave him alone for 5-7 days after you move him to the tub, then offer him a live mouse fuzzy in his tub, close it back up, and walk away. Check on him in an hour - normally you have to monitor live feedings but a mouse fuzzy can't hurt him.

In addition to what bcr said, I've found that having fake plants strewn around between hides helps them calm down a lot. It can't hurt at any rate, and they're pretty cheap. Just wash them first so that weird perfume smell they have coming from the store isn't there.

I just posted this yesterday in a similar thread so I am just copying it here

Assist feeding should be done as a last resort

If you have not done so here is what you need to do

Set your snake up in a 6 quarts tub (max) with aspen as bedding, use a plastic flower pot saucer as an hide (6 inches wide)

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p...Room/Hide1.jpg

Provide a hot spot of 88 degrees (max), leave it alone for a week (no handling) and offer a live mousse hopper in the enclosure. Prey should be as big as the girth size of your snake.

Stick with mice for now as they are more enticing.

Lets say I used all my available funds on his enclosure, him, and other things for him like food. Do you think moving him to a 10 gallon aquarium, use bark bedding(or newspaper/papertowels), with a heating pad, towel for humidity, and his heat lamp be better? Even maybe tape the sides dark so he feels more secure? (Not tape inside, outside which he can not touch) And maybe even remove his log for a hide box?(Though the log is probably better as he can bask) I just never figured a bp would be this picky about eating. And I have 0 clue how to set up a tubs always used tanks.

Here's what I have, these choices for his water dish, excuse the gunk in the water I'm cleaning my corn snakes cage which is also why he's in there, and the other cage image is his current water dish he tends to bathe in.
http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/...72880678_n.jpg
http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/...63746475_n.jpg
These are his current hide choices.
http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/...84834328_n.jpg
http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/...12650083_n.jpg
His bark bedding that I use for my corn snake which I hear is good for humidity though he might be used to newspaper regardless he'll have a towel to keep it nice and humid.
http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/...23784071_n.jpg
And this is him when he got here
http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/...95671318_n.jpg
This is him now
http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/...25787401_n.jpg

First and foremost, your new snake should never be anywhere near your other snakes until it is out of quarantine. Otherwise you risk transmitting mites and a whole slew of nasty diseases from your new critter to your established collection.
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...antine-process

Next there is a long thread on how to set up a tank for a ball python:
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...-With-Pictures!

Finally, both of those hides are inappropriate - they are way too big and the openings are too big to make your snake feel secure. Your ball python needs a hide with a tiny opening barely big enough to squeeze into, and the hide itself should be just barely big enough to hold your snake.

In the wild ball pythons spend much of their time underground in termite mounds. Wide, open spaces stress them out to the point they stop eating.

Anything that is open on two ends like the half-log isn't secure enough for a BP. If you don't have the money to get a $3.00 plastic flower pot from walmart and cut a hole in the collecting dish to use for a hide, you're going to be screwed if one of your animals gets sick.

Seconding what bcr said about quarantine procedures. Very important.

Also don't tape up entire walls of the enclosure. Just use construction paper. Getting tape off of glass can be a pain.

He wasn't in that 10 gallon, thinking of moving him in there. Adonis my corn snake is very healthy, I've had him for over 4 months, he also just finished a perfect shed and recently examined for respiratory issues. I had planned to clean the cage regardless I had already got wished to ask on here first. I could buy a garden hide, but is closed back best? And help on the others would be good.

This is just my first time ever owning a baby bp, and was hard enough to find anywhere with a orange ghost morph.

It's the cornsnake we're concerned about with the quarantine; you don't know what the BP could have and possibly transmit to him. Ideally they should be in separate rooms and none of the same equipment would be shared between them, and you'd wash your hands between handling them. If you can't do that, do as much as you can for 90 days. If no one is sick at the end of 90 days, you're good.

For the hides, check out the picture/tutorial Deborah posted. He's going to be growing quickly and outgrowing hides. You probably don't want to bother buying anything good looking or expensive for now. Those flower pot bottoms that she suggested come in a lot of sizes, so just pick the one that is the correct size for your snake (bcr gave you info on how to pick the right size hide).

Well, moved him into a different 10 gallon, decided to wrap off all sides so he feels maximum security, have his original waterdish in there, decided to go with newspaper since he's used to it and was probably used for him, and have a hide in there. Though he doesn't even use hides for some reason he just goes under the newspaper and hides there. He also also pretty nippy when I took him out, should've tried feeding beforehand.

The hides are too big and too open. Bps like to feel the sides of the hide around them so they feel secure

Ok here's how his cage is looking he's in the hide, I made sure he'd fit. Also put the bedding in so he couldn't just mess up the bedding and hide under it. Also heard it holds moisture pretty well, and he hates misting the cage. The hide is over the heating pad so if he wants to cool off he can go in the dish on the cool side.http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/...57592954_n.jpg

I'm new to this too. But I think you still need another hide for the cool side. Its my understanding that bp's will not thermoregulate properly if they don't have a safe hide on both sides. I think you could go with a smaller size of the plant tray if you don't feel like you have enough room for two hides. Someone recommended hamster igloos to me. That large water dish will help with humidity. My snake doesn't like it when I mist either X).

I think that's as small as he can have, he lays in his waterdish when he wants to. He did it when he was in a bigger cage and he's fully blocked off from sight so he should feel safer. And with less misting he should be happier too, he really glares at me when misting lol.

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Originally Posted by Naraku

I think that's as small as he can have, he lays in his waterdish when he wants to. He did it when he was in a bigger cage and he's fully blocked off from sight so he should feel safer. And with less misting he should be happier too, he really glares at me when misting lol.

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I think my snake is bigger than yours and he has a hide with less diamter than that, but its taller, so I guess thatKs why it seems large to me. Mine will coil up like he's disgusted by the touch of water lol, but its probably just a little chilly to them. But even if he's in a hide and he's not getting sprayed directly he seems annoyed lol.

This is his cage after a day, he just doesn't seem to like hides.
http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/...40520296_n.jpg

His humidity is 53% not misted, and next to his hide it's 83 f. Got 1 live hopper mouse for him in a couple of days, and one frozen if it doesn't work. Also got better feeding tongs lol.

How hot is the glass under the substrate where the heat pad is?

I took out the heat pad, after some time had passed the temp was at 100 which way way to high. Now it's a pretty decent 88-90 and doing my best to keep humidity to 60%. He seems a lot happier, except when he sees it's misting time lol.

Well, he didn't eat his live mouse, but I think I found out why. I picked up his water dish, and..............THERE WAS A INFESTATION OF ANTS UNDER IT. I had cleaned everything with a literal boil soak. I figured they got in here through his top since it was uneven. I took him out, gave him a heat bath, nuked the cage with hot water, and got rid of all the bedding. Water wouldn't ruin gauges for temp and humidity right?

Why did the temperature pop up to 100*F? Did the thermostat for the heat pad fail or do you not have one? And what type(s) of thermometer and hygrometer are you using to measure temperature and humidity?

I'm using a cage one, got both of them for $16 not sure on the grand but the stick to cage type. It'll still shoot up to 100 if my fan isn't on max or his cage isn't misted 4-5 times a day. The 100 is his hot spot, but now it settles at ~90 and it makes the humidity stable at 60-70%. I had to change his cage around, so hopefully his humidity does well enough with newspaper since I threw out the bedding.

DO YOU HAVE THE HEAT PAD HOOKED UP TO A THERMOSTAT?

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And the dial type gages are garbage and read very inaccurate digital with probs are the way to go

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I unplugged the heat pad

You have been asked many times, so please answer: do you have the heat pad hooked up to a thermostat or not?

The dial-type thermometer and hygrometer gauges are crap. First, they're usually inaccurate, and second, they readily unstick themselves from the side of your tank and then they stick to your snake. If the thermometer is reading 100*F air temp then the surface is likely hotter than that, especially with an unregulated heater.

No, the pet stores around me do not sell them. Plus when I mist him, I've touched the bottom and it's pretty timid.

Amazon delivers:
http://www.amazon.com/Zilla-11403-Co...dp/B0018CLYNG/

So does Reptile Basics:
http://www.reptilebasics.com/thermostats

This is the single most important piece of equipment for your snake. If your ball python is too cold it won't eat because it can't digest its meal. If it's too hot that can also stress it into not feeding, and if it gets over 105*F you risk neurological damage.

If you decide to use the heat pad you need a thermostat and a way to monitor the temperature of the glass where the heat pad is. It's your responsibility as a snake owner. If you stick with just heat lamps then you should at least get a light dimmer from the hardware store so you can control the heat being put off of that

Either way, finally assist fed him and he took the meal first go. Will keep updated if he throws up or not.

He has kept it down.

Assisting is generally for hatchlings that have never ever ever ever had a meal before. It's not a good idea to assist him at this point, he doesn't need it. Also... with the heating the way it is... well, what temperature is his hot spot right now? If it's too cold, he can't digest his meal and that's very bad for him.

He is stressed and his heating isn't good, that's why he isn't eating. Buy a thermostat. Your snake could literally be burned to death if you don't get one! Please listen to us on this point. It is so, so important to get one. The hot spot should be ninety degrees and that's all. You can't keep it there without a thermostat.

He's not eating because he's uncomfortable. Make him comfortable and he will eat.

Sorry for the late reply, in his 10 gallon his warm spot ranges between 85-95 and humidity is always 50-60%. He's definitely not shown any signs of discomfort that I can tell at least. He's active, explores his cage, I even added some fake leafs to surround him more and he just climbs and lays on them. So far I've assist fed him every week since the first when normal feeding does not work. (Never has so far) He's just to scared no matter the mouse/rat either alive or dead. He's also always taken the assist feeding in one go, and barely struggles during it. He's also stopped being head shy as well. Also the temps are right, got a electronic temp and it matches perfectly with the readings. He's just weird, when I take him out he shows 0 fear and explores the bed. Then the moment any rodent is near him, complete defense mode. He's not even scared of my 1 year old cat, but is a mouse. Trust me, I rather not assist feed him, I try not too but he was nearly a month+ without any food at 2 months old. From assist feeding he has improved so much. I do live rat pinkies and leave them with him for the night then will assist feed. Done dead rat/mice also he just never takes them.

Temps are still way too hot, too much fluctuation as well, and enclosure still does not provide enough security. Again read my first post on this thread and follow it to a T.



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Originally Posted by Deborah

Temps are still way too hot, too much fluctuation as well, and enclosure still does not provide enough security. Again read my first post on this thread and follow it to a T.



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I'll update you on his cage, but really the only difference is I use newspaper as bedding as he likes to mess about with it to hide sometimes. Like I said I put 3 rather large fake plants in his cage, so it's not nearly as empty as before. Then again I can see them now being a issue with feeding as he climbs the leafs. And on average it's 85-90 only on rare occasions does it go over 90(when I turn off my fan in my room) 90% of the time it's easily 85-90. Keep in mind that's his warm side, he does have a cooler side with his water dish and now the plants. If I notice him bathing to cool down I'll generally lower his temps for him.

The more you assist feed him at this point, the less likely he will be to accept food on his own and the more uncomfortable he will get.

Secondly, it's always a good idea to ask the breeder, in this case snakes at sunset, about the snakes previous living arrangements so you can try to replicate them until your snake is used to you.

I have a boa who, when a baby, wouldn't even poop on any other bedding than the pet store bedding. After awhile I was able to switch her onto something more practical.

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Originally Posted by FluppleWott

The more you assist feed him at this point, the less likely he will be to accept food on his own and the more uncomfortable he will get.

Secondly, it's always a good idea to ask the breeder, in this case snakes at sunset, about the snakes previous living arrangements so you can try to replicate them until your snake is used to you.

I have a boa who, when a baby, wouldn't even poop on any other bedding than the pet store bedding. After awhile I was able to switch her onto something more practical.

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They were very unhelpful with my questions. They couldn't even give me a exact date of birth or a stable estimate. Didn't even tell me what he ate when asked just a its young so a few fuzzy livve mice and then move up to hoppers...

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Originally Posted by Naraku

They were very unhelpful with my questions. They couldn't even give me a exact date of birth or a stable estimate. Didn't even tell me what he ate when asked just a its young so a few fuzzy livve mice and then move up to hoppers...

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That's certainly not good. I've actually almost ordered from them so I'm glad to hear that before I did. Any reputable breeder should have these kinds of records on hand. Although I personally would have gone with another breeder after hearing that, I'm sorry about your situation. Even my Petco can tell me more about their snakes than that!

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You need to stop assist feeding every week...you should listen to what we are trying to tell you...DO NOT HOLD THE SNAKE AT ALL UNTIL IT IS EATING ON ITS OWN...YOU ARE NOT HELPING AT ALL..THEY CAN GO A LONG TIME WITHOUT FOOD.....PINKYS ARE WAY TO SMALL FOR THE SNAKE....YOU NEED TO STABILIZE THE TEMPS AND LEAVE HIM ALONE UNLESS CLEANING THE CAGE!!!!!!!! ONCE AGAIN NO HANDLING NO ASSIST FEEDING....GET A KITCHEN SCALE AND WEIGH IT AND TRACK THE WEIGHT SO YOU KNOW IF THEY ARE LOSING ANY.....ONCE AGAIN NO HANDLING.NO ASSIST FEEDING

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Naraku

I'll update you on his cage, but really the only difference is I use newspaper as bedding as he likes to mess about with it to hide sometimes. Like I said I put 3 rather large fake plants in his cage, so it's not nearly as empty as before. Then again I can see them now being a issue with feeding as he climbs the leafs. And on average it's 85-90 only on rare occasions does it go over 90(when I turn off my fan in my room) 90% of the time it's easily 85-90. Keep in mind that's his warm side, he does have a cooler side with his water dish and now the plants. If I notice him bathing to cool down I'll generally lower his temps for him.

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No that is not the only difference, YOUR setup and what I recommended how completely different, with some animal 10 gallons even with fake plants just does not cut it, high fluctuation do not cut it either.

So you can either address the issues and solve the problem or keep doing what you are doing which obviously DOES NOT WORK, bottom line it's up to YOU, you're the one with an issue.

Hatchlings are voracious if they are not it is husbandry related 99% of the time.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

No that is not the only difference, YOUR setup and what I recommended how completely different, with some animal 10 gallons even with fake plants just does not cut it, high fluctuation do not cut it either.

So you can either address the issues and solve the problem or keep doing what you are doing which obviously DOES NOT WORK, bottom line it's up to YOU, you're the one with an issue.

Hatchlings are voracious if they are not it is husbandry related 99% of the time.

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I bought him as a pet, I'm not much into the tubs etc. How do I keep a 6 qt box 88 degrees with a hot spot? Do you have any in mind? Like I've said, I've done a lot of what is recommended but the cage thing. Never kept a snake in anything but a cage.

Have you actually read the advice we have told you how to keep it in the tub...do I need to type it all in bold capital letters for you? And your use to keeping snakes in FISH tanks?hand in face....

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Naraku

I bought him as a pet, I'm not much into the tubs etc. How do I keep a 6 qt box 88 degrees with a hot spot? Do you have any in mind? Like I've said, I've done a lot of what is recommended but the cage thing. Never kept a snake in anything but a cage.

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It's not a matter of pet or breeder it's a matter of getting this animal to eat on it's own for you. This is not a permanent housing solution this is a temporary one to allow your snake to get back on track, once the animal eats on a regular basis and reaches 150/200 grams you can move it to a 10 gallons tank.

As for how to keep a 6 quarts tub at 88 degree on the hot side, it's the same way than you do with any other enclosure, you place a heat mat under the tub covering no more than 1/3 of the tub and you use a thermostat.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Naraku

I bought him as a pet, I'm not much into the tubs etc. How do I keep a 6 qt box 88 degrees with a hot spot? Do you have any in mind? Like I've said, I've done a lot of what is recommended but the cage thing. Never kept a snake in anything but a cage.

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Go get a six quart (or similar size) latch box. They're $2-3 at WalMart or Target. Poke some ventilation holes in the sides or lid.

Remove the cage décor from your tank and push the aspen over to the cool side.

Put the latch box into the tank so that 1/3 of it is over the heat pad. You'll have to adjust the thermostat controlling the heat pad so that the surface temp in the tub is 86-87*F.

Put some aspen into the latch box along with a small hide and water dish.

Put your snake into the box and secure the lid.

For privacy you can cover the latch box with a small hand towel or piece of newspaper.

Colubrids like king snakes, garters, corns, milks, etc. do ok in cages, ball pythons just don't.

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Originally Posted by bcr229

Go get a six quart (or similar size) latch box. They're $2-3 at WalMart or Target. Poke some ventilation holes in the sides or lid.

Remove the cage décor from your tank and push the aspen over to the cool side.

Put the latch box into the tank so that 1/3 of it is over the heat pad. You'll have to adjust the thermostat controlling the heat pad so that the surface temp in the tub is 86-87*F.

Put some aspen into the latch box along with a small hide and water dish.

Put your snake into the box and secure the lid.

For privacy you can cover the latch box with a small hand towel or piece of newspaper.

Colubrids like king snakes, garters, corns, milks, etc. do ok in cages, ball pythons just don't.

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Thank you for your kind and informative reply what I was looking for.

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Originally Posted by frostysBP

Have you actually read the advice we have told you how to keep it in the tub...do I need to type it all in bold capital letters for you? And your use to keeping snakes in FISH tanks?hand in face....

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There's 0 need to be rude. I'm not a breeder, I like to see my snakes fully.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deborah

It's not a matter of pet or breeder it's a matter of getting this animal to eat on it's own for you. This is not a permanent housing solution this is a temporary one to allow your snake to get back on track, once the animal eats on a regular basis and reaches 150/200 grams you can move it to a 10 gallons tank.

As for how to keep a 6 quarts tub at 88 degree on the hot side, it's the same way than you do with any other enclosure, you place a heat mat under the tub covering no more than 1/3 of the tub and you use a thermostat.

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Thank you, that is more informative. I'll order a thermostat when I get paid, will they only work on specific heat mats or should mine be fine?