Dwarf retic still not calming down

Hey all,

I have had my dwarf tiger retic a few months now, and he still isn't calming down. I handle him regularly, and have him on a regular feeding regimen. I have paper covering the sides of the tank, multiple hides etc. All husbandry specs are on par. Every time I come into the room he strikes constantly against the glass. I tried hook training for over a month, but he would just lash out at the hook, then poop/pee all over and try to escape. I was worried about him striking the metal hook, so now I am just slowly reaching in and pulling him out, but he bites me at least 6-7 times before I can safely get him out of the tank. Once out he still strikes and tries to flee. Im kind of at wits end here. What to do?

Some snakes just have a "bad attitude", regardless of what you do, while some really defensive and skittish babies calm down as they put size on them - Your snake sees you as this big, scary creature that wants to eat him.
My suggestion would be to not grab at him at all but do some cage maintenence a couple times per day for a few weeks, once he gets used to your presence then start hook training slowly, you want to build trust when it comes to the big snakes, every time you grab him and freak him out you lose that trust.
Retics are very intelligent animals, just give him time and space. Do be prepared to end up with a sketchy adult snake, like i said some never do calm down - I had a couple large (14'+) Retics that were always sketchy and never tolerated interaction well.

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I hear retics can become agressive if the caging is to big

I don't even have to pick him up for him to start striking. From the moment I enter the room he strikes. When I take the lid off the cage he strikes. When I reach in to clean up poo he tags me at least 5 times. He is a complete nightmare.

Wow man, sounds like the fun has worn off. I sure feel for you and hope he starts backing off soon.

Hey Josh, sorry to hear about the raging retic! Why don't you reach out to Jay from Prehistoric pets, he is a very experienced retic breeder. Maybe even the guy from reptileexperts who is sometimes on the forum? Try sending him a pm. Good luck man, put those gloves on too! :)

Thanks guys. Yeah, this snake is NO fun at all. Its perplexing. Ive tamed down so many other snakes in the past, but this guy just hates me. I wear the glove, show no fear, all that. Doesn't make a lick of difference. I was in contact with ReptileExperts a while back when I first got him. Contacting Jay is a good idea. Honestly I think I need to sell him and move on.

How big is his tank? This is just a wee little guy, right - a high percentage 2015 SD? I'd try him in a rack/tub setup and see if his attitude changes.

Otherwise he's young and defensive, and needs to realize that biting you doesn't make you go away. I have a few snakes that haven't figure it out even after 2-3 years. Sigh.

Josh, I know you said you have the retic on a regular feeding schedule, but do you think he is getting fed a adequate amount?? :confusd:

He is pounding an adult mouse every 5 days off the recommendation of ReptileExperts. I usually wouldn't buy a retic without handling it first, but the ban was about to occur, and I figured vital exotics is super well regarded. He is very healthy, just a maniac.

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Originally Posted by JoshSloane

Thanks guys. Yeah, this snake is NO fun at all. Its perplexing. Ive tamed down so many other snakes in the past, but this guy just hates me. I wear the glove, show no fear, all that. Doesn't make a lick of difference. I was in contact with ReptileExperts a while back when I first got him. Contacting Jay is a good idea. Honestly I think I need to sell him and move on.

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Make sure if that is the route you go, sell him back to vital exotics! Hope it works out for you and good luck. :)

I thought about that, but with the Lacey act how would I do that?

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Originally Posted by JoshSloane

I thought about that, but with the Lacey act how would I do that?

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You can ship if you were a USARK member prior to 4/8 according to the preliminary injunction. Otherwise you sell in-state, or you find a USARK member in your state to ship for you.

You can also see if the breeder has a male that's chill and maybe do a trade. Did you discuss the baby's temperment at all before he was shipped?

Hey my male sd was the same exact way last week I moved him into a 41 at rack and he has chilled out a lot. I was actually able to pull him out with my hands today(1st time ever). Many try and putting him in a smaller encloser

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Also, if they are amenable to taking him back in a trade or sale, ask if they can fax you the shipping label for the box so all you have to do is affix it to the shipping box.

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Originally Posted by frostysBP

Hey my male sd was the same exact way last week I moved him into a 41 at rack and he has chilled out a lot. I was actually able to pull him out with my hands today(1st time ever). Many try and putting him in a smaller encloser

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Now that's what's up! Maybe Josh has a plan B.

It's rough having a snake that won't calm down. But examining why it's being defensive is the first step to getting it back on the right track, and I think it's been covered in this a little bit but is still worth repeating.

1) Snakes are defensive when the giant wants to play. This is because they are still small and scared and see you as a threat. Handling frequently does reduce this, but not always altogether. Some snakes have bad personalities, some have great. Would NOT blame Vital on this - its hard to tell if a young snake will calm down since most seem nippy from the get-go.

2) Larger cages = more stress. Snakes like tight fitting nooks and crannies, and larger cages offer a lot greater area for the snake to be weary of. Reducing the cage size can help the little one feel more secure - more security = less fear = less biting. The flip side is smaller territory to guard = less stress = less fear = more security = less biting. You have the sides of the cages covered so I'm guessing its a glass tank? Let's look at that in the next point.

3) Snakes inherently fear the sky. Their main predators come from above them, reaching downward (birds swooping in for example). Glass tanks exaggerate this in the sense that they are usually higher sided, and force you to enter from a "higher" altitude. Reaching in from above a snake can lead to anxiety and cage aggression. A tub is a lot lower and you are able to come in at a more reasonable angle with your hand and reduce the fear at least slightly. Remember - FEAR is what leads your snake to act defensively which we perceive as aggression. Vision caging / Animal plastics / most PVC caging open from the front. This has ample advantages for your snake and you. If possible, change the tank style first. Even if you just go to walmart and buy a Rubbermaid and put it on a regulated heating source (UTH).

Feel free to shoot me a message if I can help. I'm not always monitoring the Giant forums at the moment (busy with too many things!) but I get message alerts directly to my phone since a good bit of folks tend to just message me.

Cheers!

Thanks for all the responses. I agree its not Vital exotics fault at all. We did however discuss the snakes temperament before purchase, and Kris said that the snake was "nippy" just like all other retic hatchlings. While I expected this, I have never seen a snake this crazy. I am going to try to move him into a 41 qt tub like previously mentioned, maybe he can calm down with feeling more secure. I contacted Kris about this issue, and asked if we would be able to work something out. He dodged the question, and then stopped responding. I absolutely do not blame Vital Exotics for this issue one bit. I bought a snake without seeing it. But it would be nice if he could discuss some options with me about trading in or selling back the snake. It's miserable to have such an expensive animal that is awful to deal with.

Most breeders and shop owners will not replace a snake because it's doing what a snake does. I am sure he doesn't want to go through the process of taking the hin back and quarantining this snake just because he is a bit temperamental.
When you get into this hobby you just have to accept that you will own some snakes that are very defensive and don't tolerate handling, they are wild animals and unpredictable. It just comes with the territory.

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Originally Posted by PassionFruitReptiles

Most breeders and shop owners will not replace a snake because it's doing what a snake does. I am sure he doesn't want to go through the process of taking the hin back and quarantining this snake just because he is a bit temperamental.
When you get into this hobby you just have to accept that you will own some snakes that are very defensive and don't tolerate handling, they are wild animals and unpredictable. It just comes with the territory.

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I hear ya, and I wasn't, and am still not expecting to be able to. I didn't even think it was an option until others brought it up. I just have a feeling that this snake is much worse than normal. I would be willing to take a bit of a loss on the snake if bought back my Kris. Ive put a ton of time and effort into this guy, with very little results. I want to sell the animal, but want it to be taken care of in an appropriate environment. I would think that the breeder would be the best option.

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Originally Posted by PassionFruitReptiles

Most breeders and shop owners will not replace a snake because it's doing what a snake does. I am sure he doesn't want to go through the process of taking the hin back and quarantining this snake just because he is a bit temperamental.
When you get into this hobby you just have to accept that you will own some snakes that are very defensive and don't tolerate handling, they are wild animals and unpredictable. It just comes with the territory.

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Well actually a breeder or shop owner should stand by their products. Most retics are nippy and the op has mentioned he has experience with the species and has tamed down other animals including retics. This particular retic is apparently a extraordinary animal with a customer who is totally dissatisfied with the animal. I think this case requires extraordinary reconsideration for a animal who is more than just "temperamental". Quarantining is something we all do and should not be a determining factor in a decision to satisfy a customer. Especially a customer who spent quite a bit of time and money into a animal that they( the breeder) produced. That also is a reason people buy from top notch breeders is bc they expect the breeder to go the extra mile. Pet shops? Not so much. :salute::salute:

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Originally Posted by Albert Clark

Well actually a breeder or shop owner should stand by their products. Most retics are nippy and the op has mentioned he has experience with the species and has tamed down other animals including retics. This particular retic is apparently a extraordinary animal with a customer who is totally dissatisfied with the animal. I think this case requires extraordinary reconsideration for a animal who is more than just "temperamental". Quarantining is something we all do and should not be a determining factor in a decision to satisfy a customer. Especially a customer who spent quite a bit of time and money into a animal that they( the breeder) produced. That also is a reason people buy from top notch breeders is bc they expect the breeder to go the extra mile. Pet shops? Not so much. :salute::salute:

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OP never said anything about having any experience with retics.

OP seemingly hasn't answered any questions regarding the way he is housing the baby snake (which, as pointed out, could very well be the root of the problem)

As far as I'm aware the Dwarf / Super Dwarf retics are known to be nippy.

In the end, when you make the decision to buy an animal and are aware of the fact that it may never calm down, you are solely responsible. IMO

OP my understanding is that you bought this guy as a future breeder. If you intend to produce retics, even if you don't breed this particular one and eventually sell him, I would keep working with him for a another few months. He may just come around for you once he's living in a tub instead of a tank. FWIW I would put him into the smallest tub that you can find that fits in your rack rather than a 41-qt tub, as that's probably still too big for him. A 28 or even 15 qt tub can go into a 41-qt rack, just make sure you only put 1/3 of the tub over the heat tape.

Also, if you do breed retics you could easily end up with a couple dozen babies from a clutch that are just as defensive as he is, so the experience you get working with him would be worth it. If you decide you really don't want to deal with him after a few months you may also want to re-think breeding retics, if you're not enjoying yourself now wait until you got a hatchling rack full of the little nippers to deal with every day!