How do you get different variations of albinos

I just got a baby albino pinstripe and I was wondering how you get this morph if pinstripe is dominant and albino is recessive. Also how could I make more albino pinstripes or albino spiders?

The morphs are individual characteristics - in most cases they don't over-ride each other like that.

If you want to make more Albino Pinstripes, all you need is to breed your snake with one that is at least het Albino. If you want to make Albino Spiders, all you need is to breed your snake to one that is at least Spider het Albino.

Best bet is for you to read,read,read,and read some more. After a year of that,let to posts fly.;)

Study your genetics. There is a lot involed.

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Originally Posted by grcforce327

Best bet is for you to read,read,read,and read some more. After a year of that,let to posts fly.;)

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

Study your genetics. There is a lot involed.

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Neither of you are any help. Only the first guy gave me a little information. If you don't have helpful information, please do not bother commenting.

Ok. Here you go. Im going to use the term allele, which essentially is a variant of a specific gene. The genes that control the pinstripe morph and albino morph are distinct genes that remain at different loci or locations on chromosomes. They act independently of one another. The recessive character of the albino trait means that to get the albino morphology, the snake must inherit TWO recessive alleles. This means that the allele from mom and dad for JUST this trait are both recessive in nature. Now for the pinstripe morph, this is a separate gene that is likely on a whole different chromosome altogether. For a dominant trait such as pinstripe, you only need ONE of the dominant alleles to phenotypically show the pinstripe trait. These two genes have no interplay between one another, and are not linked or inherited together. So if you want a pinstripe albino you need ONE dominant pinstripe allele, and TWO recessive albino alleles. A good analogy is hair and eye color in people. You can have people with blue eyes and blonde hair, blue eyes and red hair, blue eyes and brown hair. The two genes don't interact but produce vastly different phenotypic results when considering the organism and its genome as a WHOLE.

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Originally Posted by berriosderick

Neither of you are any help. Only the first guy gave me a little information. If you don't have helpful information, please do not bother commenting.

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The recommendation to further your own education in this hobby is quite possibly the best and most helpful advice given in this thread. There is a lot of information available to you if you are willing to look for it.

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Originally Posted by berriosderick

Neither of you are any help. Only the first guy gave me a little information. If you don't have helpful information, please do not bother commenting.

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I would call advising you to read in order to understand the hobby your in to probably be the best advice someone could give you.

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Originally Posted by berriosderick

Neither of you are any help. Only the first guy gave me a little information. If you don't have helpful information, please do not bother commenting.

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Understanding basic mendelian genetics is imperative if you want to be knowledgeable in this hobby. If you can understand recessive, dominant, co-dominant interactions then you can apply it to any morph you come across.

Also, having a better attitude towards those of us that spend our free time helping you understand is usually your best bet.:)

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Originally Posted by JoshSloane

Understanding basic mendelian genetics is imperative if you want to be knowledgeable in this hobby. If you can understand recessive, dominant, co-dominant interactions then you can apply it to any morph you come across.

Also, having a better attitude towards those of us that spend our free time helping you understand is usually your best bet.:)

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This.

Now that said, some people have problems learning simply by reading an explanation. So, if you would prefer to learn by doing, go play for a while:
http://worldofballpythons.com/wizard

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Originally Posted by berriosderick

Neither of you are any help. Only the first guy gave me a little information. If you don't have helpful information, please do not bother commenting.

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Sorry you got the wrong guy.
I was trying to give you a hand up to further your knowledge.
Anyone can give you a hand out but you still wont know how it came about.
If thats all you want to know then its easy. Breed a visual or het to another visual or het.

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Originally Posted by berriosderick

I was wondering how you get this morph if pinstripe is dominant and albino is recessive. Also how could I make more albino pinstripes or albino spiders?

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okay there's a lot of information you can find on the internet on how simple recessives work but I'll explain here a little bit, and use your albino pin as an example.

if you want to make more albino pins starting from scratch
breed your albino pin to a normal and you will get out of your clutch 50% normal and 50% pinstripes all of them heterozygous (het) for albino meaning all of the animals are carrying one copy of the albino gene.
the way simple recessives work is that both parents need to be carrying a copy of that gene to produce a visual expression, in this case albinism.

so you breed an albino to a pinstripe het albino and you will get
25% het albino
25% pin het albino
25% albino
25% albino pin

hope this helps, but as stated in previous posts there is a ton of information involving genetic mutations in this hobby and I am by no means an expert but there's always something new to learn and a lot of the members here have a wealth of knowledge and a lot of it is posted here in one place or another. Its up to you to put forth the effort in seeking it out

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Originally Posted by bcr229

This.

Now that said, some people have problems learning simply by reading an explanation. So, if you would prefer to learn by doing, go play for a while:
http://worldofballpythons.com/wizard

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Originally Posted by JoshSloane

Understanding basic mendelian genetics is imperative if you want to be knowledgeable in this hobby. If you can understand recessive, dominant, co-dominant interactions then you can apply it to any morph you come across.

Also, having a better attitude towards those of us that spend our free time helping you understand is usually your best bet.:)

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Originally Posted by Asherah

I would call advising you to read in order to understand the hobby your in to probably be the best advice someone could give you.

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Originally Posted by Eric Alan

The recommendation to further your own education in this hobby is quite possibly the best and most helpful advice given in this thread. There is a lot of information available to you if you are willing to look for it.

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That is the exact reason why I joined this forum [emoji1] 🔫 so I could read and learn what I need to know before I go on breeding without any knowledge. Telling me to read didn't really answer my particular question. Reading about genetics in general does not necessarily help me with my original question.

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Originally Posted by JoshSloane

Ok. Here you go. Im going to use the term allele, which essentially is a variant of a specific gene. The genes that control the pinstripe morph and albino morph are distinct genes that remain at different loci or locations on chromosomes. They act independently of one another. The recessive character of the albino trait means that to get the albino morphology, the snake must inherit TWO recessive alleles. This means that the allele from mom and dad for JUST this trait are both recessive in nature. Now for the pinstripe morph, this is a separate gene that is likely on a whole different chromosome altogether. For a dominant trait such as pinstripe, you only need ONE of the dominant alleles to phenotypically show the pinstripe trait. These two genes have no interplay between one another, and are not linked or inherited together. So if you want a pinstripe albino you need ONE dominant pinstripe allele, and TWO recessive albino alleles. A good analogy is hair and eye color in people. You can have people with blue eyes and blonde hair, blue eyes and red hair, blue eyes and brown hair. The two genes don't interact but produce vastly different phenotypic results when considering the organism and its genome as a WHOLE.

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This was very helpful, I do know how punnet squares and alleles work, I was just stumped [emoji1]

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Originally Posted by ajmreptiles

okay there's a lot of information you can find on the internet on how simple recessives work but I'll explain here a little bit, and use your albino pin as an example.

if you want to make more albino pins starting from scratch
breed your albino pin to a normal and you will get out of your clutch 50% normal and 50% pinstripes all of them heterozygous (het) for albino meaning all of the animals are carrying one copy of the albino gene.
the way simple recessives work is that both parents need to be carrying a copy of that gene to produce a visual expression, in this case albinism.

so you breed an albino to a pinstripe het albino and you will get
25% het albino
25% pin het albino
25% albino
25% albino pin

hope this helps, but as stated in previous posts there is a ton of information involving genetic mutations in this hobby and I am by no means an expert but there's always something new to learn and a lot of the members here have a wealth of knowledge and a lot of it is posted here in one place or another. Its up to you to put forth the effort in seeking it out

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THANK YOU SO MUCH[emoji1] this was pretty much exactly what I was looking for. You gave me examples and percentages. Exactly what I was looking for [emoji28] [emoji108]

Here is a stickied thread from this site in the BP Morphs & Genetics subforum that is now only one click away for you: A Lesson in Basic Genetics.

As Pit said, if all you wanted was your question answered, we've already done that. If you want to know were that answer came from, we'll need your help.

Funny how that reading thing doesn't expand knowledge, because general reading about genetics does in fact answer your original question... if you actually cared to read about it.

Its all good. Once you get the hang of it, you will understand what we mean. Punnet squares are a good way to visualize the frequency of occurrence of a trait. One important point to realize is that the punnet square doesn't give you an exact percentage of how many offspring in a clutch will express a certain phenotype. Rather, it gives you the statistical chance that a certain allele is going to be paired with another allele in every fertilization. So in the case of breeding two BPs het for albino, both the male and female each produce sex cells that half contain the recessive gene, and half that contain the dominant form of the gene. Said another way, each parent snake has a 50% chance of passing on the recessive albino allele when each egg is fertilized. However, for the hatchlings to be albino they must have both a recessive gene from mom and dad snakes. So the statistical probability of both mom and dad passing on the recessive allele is 50% x 50% = 25%. Given a statistically large enough population, the occurrence of albino would trend towards 25%. But in smaller numbers, like those for BP clutches, sometimes the statistics don't completely pan out. You could get lucky and get all albinos, or none.

A ball python has 18 pairs of chromosomes. That averages out to over 1000 gene pairs per chromosome pair. The pinstripe mutant gene is in one gene pair. The albino mutant gene is in a totally different gene pair. Very likely those two gene pairs are in different chromosomes.

Useful references:

http://www.redtailboas.com/f115/no-f...s-guide-53782/
While the examples are for boa constrictors, the principles are the same for ball pythons, mice, fruit flies, maize plants, etc.

http://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/handbook

http://www.gutenberg.org/ and look for R. C. Punnett's text, Mendelism. The theory is out of date, but he gives a lot of examples.

And you can do a web search for "law of independent assortment"

Man oh man.... You've got a lot of reading ahead of you. I don't say this to be mean so much as this... If you want to be in this hobby and you're going to be both good at it and good for your reptiles, you are ALWAYS going to be reading and learning. I do research anytime I don't understand something. People giving you the answers will get you that info faster maybe, but perhaps not provide the context you will need to relate to said information.

PS Be nice to the people offering help, they mean the best for you and any animals you may have. You will get a lot further with folks on here that way :gj:

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Originally Posted by anicatgirl

Man oh man.... You've got a lot of reading ahead of you. I don't say this to be mean so much as this... If you want to be in this hobby and you're going to be both good at it and good for your reptiles, you are ALWAYS going to be reading and learning. I do research anytime I don't understand something. People giving you the answers will get you that info faster maybe, but perhaps not provide the context you will need to relate to said information.

PS Be nice to the people offering help, they mean the best for you and any animals you may have. You will get a lot further with folks on here that way :gj:

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Very well said, no need to be rude to people that are taking the time to help you out

Need a sticky to WOBP...then again,spoon fed kids still won't find it.;)

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Originally Posted by grcforce327

Need a sticky to WOBP...then again,spoon fed kids still won't find it.;)

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Thank you

Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk

The guide to morphs on this forum is a great start. Make two vertical lists on paper. One side shows recessives and one side shows dominant and co-dominant morphs.

Now, check out the designer morphs on this forum. They tell what specific morph or gene combinations made that snake. See how often a snake that has 4 or 5 or 6 genes (morphs) went into making the snake look like it does. Then notice how dominant genes show up more often than recessive genes in a designer morph. Recessive gene combos often take a longer term and more expensive breeding program to produce. More holdbacks from clutches and breeding those just to see if a visual recessive snake may be het for something else the parent may or may not be able to pass on and breeding that back to parents/siblings etc. Breed an albino to a piebald, which are both recessive and very few of the snakes in the clutch will be 100% het for both. Raise that clutch to breeding size, breed them back to a parent but maybe the albino male parent bred to the females means all the females are het for piebald and not albino. I hope I have that right. I haven't managed to sleep for longer than 2 hours every 6 hours in 3 weeks.

The good news when playing with dominant genes is only one parent has to have it to make a baby that obviously carries the gene because they look like a parent. Any normal babies or babies that don't have the same pattern don't have the gene and can't pass it on to their babies because they just don't have it. It takes away the guessing game.

The morph list here is pretty small but it shows the most common ones, both single gene and designer morphs and makes it easier to understand before jumping into world of ball python site where they say there are 4000+ morphs.

When albino is mated to piebald, ALL the babies look normal and are het for both albino and piebald. (100% het is a long way of writing het.)

Albino mated to het albino, het piebald produces
1/2 albino, 50% probability het piebald
1/2 normal looking, het albino, 50% probability het piebald
Fractions are expected results. Actual results may vary.

There is a button on the WOBP morph page (under Filters) that will give a list of only the basic morphs, not the combinations (designer morphs). They say 267 basic morphs. IMO that is close but a little high. IMO, albino, albino -- faded, and albino -- high contrast are produced by the same mutant gene. So there are a jillion possible ball python designer morphs, but most have not been produced yet. And a lot of them would look alike (white).

Good luck with the sleep issues.