Substrate...blah...

I started with carpet. I'm talking we went to Home Depot and cut carpet...didn't work out. The fibers shed everywhere and it's a pain to clean. Then I switched to aspen. Way too much dust. Then came eco earth. Even dustier and a pain to clean. Now? I'm temporarily stuck with one cage that has coco, one has reptile bark, and one has newspaper. I really like the bark for the iggy and wanted to double check that it's okay for my snake children ^^ The snake on paper is having a fit...he made his point... Any other recommendations would be helpful as well!

1.2 Normal
1.1 Red-tail
0.1 Albino corn

Paper towel. They get used to it pretty fast and its economical and easy to replace. Most top breeders use it.

Repti bark is said to be fine for ball python and I believe for your boa as well. I've never used it though, so I can't offer personal experience, the only thing I would worry about is a tooth getting stuck on a piece of bark. I'm sure someone who uses it will chime in. Personally I use about a 50/50 mix of aspen and eco earth. Bottom inch all aspen, top inch to 1.5 Of eco earth. Loki tends to mix it up as he slither through it and beds down.

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Originally Posted by JoshSloane

Paper towel. They get used to it pretty fast and its economical and easy to replace. Most top breeders use it.

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IDK mama wants to keep it looking natural :P she hates the look of paper!

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Originally Posted by magicmed

Repti bark is said to be fine for ball python and I believe for your boa as well. I've never used it though, so I can't offer personal experience, the only thing I would worry about is a tooth getting stuck on a piece of bark. I'm sure someone who uses it will chime in. Personally I use about a 50/50 mix of aspen and eco earth. Bottom inch all aspen, top inch to 1.5 Of eco earth. Loki tends to mix it up as he slither through it and beds down.

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Well, I made some coco in a bucket and had extra so I let it sit to dry and now it has buggies in it >.> moths and all that weird nonsense so mama is using it as potting soil. I just love the bark because it's not as dusty and smell so nice.

I understand completely, I started on carpet because of past good experience with it years ago, had a feeding disaster, so tried paper, hated it. Went to aspen, didn't care for it. Now I'm on this mix and it's decent so far for looks and comfort, but like you said can me messy. I'm finding it's kinda difficult to get a good looking, clean, manageable, and safe substrate. ><

Repti bark is nice, but if your snake goes to the bathroom you will have a hell of a time getting rid of the smell. I suggest cypress mulch. It's similar, but the pieces are bigger, softer, and don't smell!


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Tried cypress?

Newspaper, reptibark, aspen and now paper towels. Seven tanks. My wife likes natural, but reptibark and even aspen don't always spot clean well. And I don't want to argue, just stick your head in there and take a good sniff ( I dare you). Reptibark holds moisture well, looks great. Paper towels are my favorite though. Hope that helps, we were using aspen. Spot cleaning very thorough, still stunk. Might as well get the benefits of the reptibark, if your going for looks. Peace, don't go nuts we have this debate to often.

Pine. Better absorbency than aspen, doesn't mold nearly as easily, decent odor control.

At least in my experience.

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Originally Posted by 200xth

Pine. Better absorbency than aspen, doesn't mold nearly as easily, decent odor control.

At least in my experience.

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200xth, which is more mold resistant? Pine or cypress?

Also, what brand pine you use? I can get nepco brand but it seems the pieces look huge.

I used Cyprus mulch and it was too sharp in my opinion and I used repti bark which was fine and I also have used coco and it got stuck in his nose so now I'm trying shredded aspen http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/04...471a98b661.jpg


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Originally Posted by magicmed

I understand completely, I started on carpet because of past good experience with it years ago, had a feeding disaster, so tried paper, hated it. Went to aspen, didn't care for it. Now I'm on this mix and it's decent so far for looks and comfort, but like you said can me messy. I'm finding it's kinda difficult to get a good looking, clean, manageable, and safe substrate. ><

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BLAHHH XD

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Originally Posted by gameonpython

Repti bark is nice, but if your snake goes to the bathroom you will have a hell of a time getting rid of the smell. I suggest cypress mulch. It's similar, but the pieces are bigger, softer, and don't smell!

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They don't want cypress -.- -sigh- they say it's weird to put a snake on mulch...

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Originally Posted by anicatgirl

Tried cypress?

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No :/ want to but they won't let me

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Originally Posted by Sonny1318

Newspaper, reptibark, aspen and now paper towels. Seven tanks. My wife likes natural, but reptibark and even aspen don't always spot clean well. And I don't want to argue, just stick your head in there and take a good sniff ( I dare you). Reptibark holds moisture well, looks great. Paper towels are my favorite though. Hope that helps, we were using aspen. Spot cleaning very thorough, still stunk. Might as well get the benefits of the reptibark, if your going for looks. Peace, don't go nuts we have this debate to often.

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Okay ^^

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Originally Posted by 200xth

Pine. Better absorbency than aspen, doesn't mold nearly as easily, decent odor control.

At least in my experience.

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I have given this thought...dusty?

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Originally Posted by SCWood

I have given this thought...dusty?

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Not that I've noticed.

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Originally Posted by hungba

200xth, which is more mold resistant? Pine or cypress?

Also, what brand pine you use? I can get nepco brand but it seems the pieces look huge.

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I haven't used a lot of cypress, so I can't really answer that in any useful way.

I'm using Kaytee at the moment. The shavings are definitely not very large. My hatchlings at ~150g were on it without issues.

I use aspen. Some stuff is dustier than others. I used to use Zoo Med stuff which was nice but expensive. I use Alphapet aspen from Walmart now and it works fine. Not too dusty and a 20qt bag is only $3. Great since I do full cage cleanings once a month on all my snakes. The only downside to the stuff is it isn't as finely shredded as the Zoo med stuff. I've used Eco Earth, newspaper, paper towels and my 2nd favorite would be paper towels. Eco Earth dries out fast, then becomes really dusty plus if your snakes like to burrow like mine do sometimes, it will get plugged in their nostrils. Never used cypress because its pretty expensive up here and I don't have humidity issues with aspen and have used it for years.

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Originally Posted by Rafikiballpython

I used Cyprus mulch and it was too sharp in my opinion and I used repti bark which was fine and I also have used coco and it got stuck in his nose so now I'm trying shredded aspen http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/04...471a98b661.jpg


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I liked that stuff but when you need 4 bags of it a month, it gets spendy. Plus it seems like I was unlucky or something but everytime I went to buy 4 bags, no single pet store had 4 bags of it, I had to usually got to 2 or even 3 pet stores sometimes.

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

I use aspen. Some stuff is dustier than others. I used to use Zoo Med stuff which was nice but expensive. I use Alphapet aspen from Walmart now and it works fine. Not too dusty and a 20qt bag is only $3. Great since I do full cage cleanings once a month on all my snakes. The only downside to the stuff is it isn't as finely shredded as the Zoo med stuff. I've used Eco Earth, newspaper, paper towels and my 2nd favorite would be paper towels. Eco Earth dries out fast, then becomes really dusty plus if your snakes like to burrow like mine do sometimes, it will get plugged in their nostrils. Never used cypress because its pretty expensive up here and I don't have humidity issues with aspen and have used it for years.

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Where would one find that stuff at walmart... home and garden center or do they keep it in the pet section

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Originally Posted by M.P.C

Where would one find that stuff at walmart... home and garden center or do they keep it in the pet section

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Its in the pet section at the Walmarts in my area. Next to the pine bedding, carefresh and stuff like that....pretty much the small animal/pet aisle.

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Originally Posted by 200xth

I haven't used a lot of cypress, so I can't really answer that in any useful way.

I'm using Kaytee at the moment. The shavings are definitely not very large. My hatchlings at ~150g were on it without issues.

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Does it matter if it says "kiln dried" or would any ole' pine will do?

I will admit that I've avoided pine simply because of people saying that it is toxic etc. Since a lot on this forum have used it for decades I think it must be safe for snakes. Do you know if it is only snakes or is pine safe for other reptiles as well?

Also, all the pine I find in these parts available in bulk are huge pieces, meant for horses. I wonder if that is ok or not?

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

Its in the pet section at the Walmarts in my area. Next to the pine bedding, carefresh and stuff like that....pretty much the small animal/pet aisle.

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Thank you

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Originally Posted by hungba

Does it matter if it says "kiln dried" or would any ole' pine will do?

I will admit that I've avoided pine simply because of people saying that it is toxic etc. Since a lot on this forum have used it for decades I think it must be safe for snakes. Do you know if it is only snakes or is pine safe for other reptiles as well?

Also, all the pine I find in these parts available in bulk are huge pieces, meant for horses. I wonder if that is ok or not?

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You want kiln dried as that dries out all the oils in the pine which is what is harmful to reptiles. As for larger pieces, I would imagine it would be fine but I'm not sure how much babies would enjoy it, really just depends how big it actually is. If its like the size of small animal bedding which is more or less larger shavings, then it should be fine but if it is actually chunks of wood like if you were cutting a tree down with an axe, I would probably skip that size stuff. I personally would just stick to aspen as that stuff is easy to find and most of it is in small animal size shavings or double milled reptile grade.

I don't know how big you mean by chunks of wood when chopping a tree, wouldn't that be the entire tree?

Specifically, I can get this, top one large flakes:

http://www.suncoastbedding.com/sunco...ducts-for-sale

It says their bedding is "heat treated" not sure if that means "kiln dried", but then they say "fresh pine scent"...

OP you might want to look at lab grade bedding. It typically is blown and is not very dusty as it needs to meet very high standards. it costs more as well. Nepco makes an aspen,pine,and a paper bedding (it is dusty). Harlan also makes pine, aspen beddings, as does native earth. I am sure there are others but I have not used them nor researched more these are the ones I know of.

Kiln dried pine is best pine that is raw often has bark and is sticky, it is stupid messy as the chips glue to everything they touch and you cannot get the sap off with out harsh solvents. It is completely not acceptable due to the potential risks involved.

Papers are fine but IMO paper towel especially domestic paper towels (blue shop towels I am on the fence with) are the only substrate that have, with no doubt, killed snakes. I see no advantage that over comes the risk associated with them to make the small risk worth it. The big breeders I know won't touch the stuff. Too expensive for a large collection coco coir at least in my area is impossible to beat for cost, if you can store a bail of it.

I prefer to use bogus paper currently. (recycled product like extra thick newspaper)

For a more natural wood product I like to use Cypress mulch . Get the natural non-dyed stuff that is pure cypress, not a blend.

The crypress mulch does hold moisture better but can still get kind of dirty. I'm not sure there is such a thing as a 'perfect' substrate.

Oh please kitedemon, now it's just obvious you're following me around the forum detracting from anything I say. The odds of ingesting a paper towel by a snake are extremely low. Yes it has happened but animals ingest other substrates and become impacted all the time. Shredded substrates just create a breeding ground for disease and excreted material that isn't seen and not cleaned up properly. Get a life and find something other to do than debate what I have to say.

Lets play nice now. Everybody has a right to their opinion. I've personally been using paper towels for my hatchlings (thousands of them by now) for many many years and have never had any problems what so ever. But that's just MY experience. Others have different experiences and it's valuable to hear other viewpoints as well. I'd much rather hear an opposing view point from someone else's personal experience than from what they just heard elsewhere on the internet.

I've personally had hatchlings die from impaction by injesting the sand substrate that I was using at the time. Again, this is very rare, but it HAS happened to me and I'll make sure to tell others about it if they are considering using sand as a substrate.

I have on 4 occasions seen a snake go to a vet to remove paper towel injestion. It is often fatal. I mention it because I have personally seen issues more than once yes very very low chances. Everyone must weigh risk over advantage and I see no advantage to the animal at all. I am left with only risk with no gain, IMO that makes it pointless. I have also had impacted snakes as well never heard of one to die from any of the mentioned substrates. In my experience is even a lower possibility, of the mentioned substrates I could be one of the few people here whom has had an impacted snake (confirmed) there are lots whom believe it to be a myth. Administering a stool softener with a tube is very different than surgery.

Don't flatter yourself, JoshSloane, I rarely look at who posts what, I just respond to what I see. I pointed out the dangers and leave people to make their own decisions. The only advantage is to the keeper not the animal.

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Originally Posted by hungba

I don't know how big you mean by chunks of wood when chopping a tree, wouldn't that be the entire tree?

Specifically, I can get this, top one large flakes:

http://www.suncoastbedding.com/sunco...ducts-for-sale

It says their bedding is "heat treated" not sure if that means "kiln dried", but then they say "fresh pine scent"...

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By big chunks, I guess I should rephrase it, I mean big shavings along with some actual chunks in it. As for heat treated, I think that just means it has been heated to kill any critters. I personally wouldn't chance any pine unless it specifically says "kiln dried" as the cost saved isn't worth the risk to your animals.

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

By big chunks, I guess I should rephrase it, I mean big shavings along with some actual chunks in it. As for heat treated, I think that just means it has been heated to kill any critters. I personally wouldn't chance any pine unless it specifically says "kiln dried" as the cost saved isn't worth the risk to your animals.

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I always err on the side of caution. I would rather take a bit more time, spend a bit more, or be inconvenienced to increase a safety margin. I do quite firmly believe that kiln dried pine is fine and that the heat required to kill insect eggs is enough to bake out the pine oils in the material. I would accept for mine any heat treated pine.