is too high humidity bad? temporarily?

When I change the bedding (Forest Floor Cypress) the humidity in my tank jumps to about 70 for a minimum of 2 days (because this stuff holds a lot of moisture). I'm already using as less as I can. The tank normally sits at 55-60 when the bedding drys out more. One more question, what if for some reason my lamp goes off since the heat from it drys out the humidity and the humidity shoots to like 90?

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Originally Posted by Adamrhh

When I change the bedding (Forest Floor Cypress) the humidity in my tank jumps to about 70 for a minimum of 2 days (because this stuff holds a lot of moisture). I'm already using as less as I can. The tank normally sits at 55-60 when the bedding drys out more. One more question, what if for some reason my lamp goes off since the heat from it drys out the humidity and the humidity shoots to like 90?

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The issue is an animal being kept WAY too dry or WAY too moist for long periods of time. A small amount of time isn't going to cause a problem I wouldn't think. In fact many people use humid hides where I'd gamble the humidity approaches 90-100% inside and they will stay in there for hours and sometimes days.

Question, RH = relative humidity correct? relative to what?

It is a %. What is it a % of?

Failing to understand a basic husbandry requirement leads to issues. RH is just a number and meaningless with out the other end of the equation. To answer if you even have enough humidity or too much depends of what you are taking a % of. You need to know what the saturation point of the air is, to know that you must know the ambient air temps.

High humidity is not often an issue (unless it is actually wet inside) and there is a decent air flow. If the air flow is poor it is a huge issue.

Should not be an issue in this case, but you could lay the substrate material out on a small tarp or garbage bag, or even a cookie sheet if space is limited and just spread it into a thin layer and let it dry a bit before putting it in the cage. I've had to do this before due to getting some really wet bags of stuff.

86-91F hot spot
humidity 66%
ambient temperture 77-81F

People need to do their own "simple" research,instead of wanting to be constantly "spoon fed". They could then answer their own questions.;)

http://www.timeanddate.com/weather/ghana/accra

:spork:


So im guessing if it's okay for a wild ball python it should be fine for a captive bred one. I won't worry about it when my humidity is 77%

In the wild after a rainstorm the humidity in a burrow or any hiding spot is likely to remain at a very high humidity. I always provide a humid hide and my snakes during shed will stay in there for multiple days by choice. 70 somethig percent humidity temporarily is fine. I would bet that herp keepers in the south probably maintain that humidity level most year round.

Also, really grcforce? Forums are about discussion and opinions being shared, not just reciting "facts." There's no set manual on how to raise herps. It's not productive to be Captain Hindsight and tell people what "should have happened."

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Originally Posted by grcforce327

People need to do their own "simple" research,instead of wanting to be constantly "spoon fed". They could then answer their own questions.;)

http://www.timeanddate.com/weather/ghana/accra

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To be fair weather conditions in the country of origin for herps is only a starting point when trying to dial in husbandry. There is a multitude of reptiles where if you only look at country of origin weather reports you'd end up killing the animal. There are many little micro climates that some herps come from that don't match the overall weather conditions of the country.

Everyone knows that caresheets and such are only the beginning point and some can be outdated or downright written by some ding dong who never even kept the species. Although not so much with BPs (information aplenty is out there on them) I don't see anything wrong with someone coming to ask a question when they clearly did do some sort of research otherwise they wouldn't have recognized the potential for a problem. I've often done my own research and then asked questions of people who have been keeping/breeding a species much longer than myself if something doesn't make sense or I just want clarification.

That's what this forum and all others like it are for. If there weren't people asking questions then the place would be a ghost town and all the people who like to share their experiences with other keepers would have nothing to talk about. Us herpers working together to help educate new ones are what helped this hobby grow as big as it did. Sometimes people forget that.

My point exactly. We all know that care sheets need to be taken with a grain of salt and modified constantly for individual circumstances. We were all newbies at some point.

BPs aren't fragile animals and have evolved to thrive in oscillating weather conditions between wet and dry seasons. Maintaining a static environment is not necessary. So to the OP, you're all good. Don't worry about anyone that nit picks you. Get the basics down and stay close and you're doing fine.

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Originally Posted by Adamrhh

86-91F hot spot
humidity 66%
ambient temperture 77-81F

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We generally recognize that 80ºF and 60% humidity routinely produces good sheds, why this appears in 90% of care sheets. The math is easy 80ºF has a SVD (saturation vapour density) of 25.4 gm/m3 60% of 25.4 is 15.24gm . This is 60% RH.

When you have a lower ambient air temp the SVD drops @ 78ºF you get 23.7gm/m3.

I like to use 15.5 gm/m3 as a target @ 78ºF this is 65% (rounded) You should have at least 65%, so 70% is just a bit too much (a little shy of one gram per meter square)

You should be trying to keep the humidity between 65-70% RH based on your ambients. So no actually you are spot on.

Right there is where I pop the "ridiculous" flare. As a scientist I appreciate your use of calculations. But the accuracy of your instruments to measure ambient temps and humidity are inherently flawed and even at best have an error of plus or minus 2-3 %. There's no sense in calculating a desired value based off a complete estimate. Like I said previously, natural conditions do not have static humidity levels at all, so why drive yourself insane keeping the humidity exact.? A ball python is not going to notice a 5% change in humidity, guaranteed. A person new to snakes has enough to worry about other than this minute change. If the snake is eating, healthy, shedding and acting properly then this is all just an academic exercise.

It is easy people whom have low ambients keep 60% and they get bad sheds consistently because they simple do not understand they need 70-85% RH and people with higher ambients like I do, don't need to struggle to keep 60% when 50% is fine. It is why many tell you you need to do something different when a snake is going into shed, they don't understand someone so very basic as relative humidity. You should not need to change anything shed or not if you have things correct. I keep mine at 50% sometimes 55% if it is winter. I never have a bad shed. I can even drop as low as 45% in the summer and still hold 15.5.

Basics, Relative humidity is relative to temperature. Basic it changes with temperature the higher the temp the lower it needs to be the lower the team the higher it needs to be. I am sorry this is too difficult for you.

That is great, yes perfect if you get good sheds 100% of the time. But how often do new hobbyists fail to have good sheds? Often, it is also clear that they don't understand the relationship between ambient air temps (almost always the same as cool end temps) and RH. The OP has demonstrated this perfectly. Just enough humidity and the question is should I lower them? Your recommendation yes lower them and we will help you when you have a bad shed? Great advise there, change it until it is wrong and them we can fix it.

I agree most don't have accurate thermometers (I do Platinum RTD traceable) or Hygrometers (mine is tested and calibrated every 6 months so again mine are fairly good) does that mean we should recommend units known to be inaccurate? No we should try to educate all instruments are not the same some are better than others. That conditions that are not terrible is ok? we should not strive to maintain exemplary? Great, you are welcome to your mediocrity, I strive for better. The ambient air temp can make as much as 20% difference in RH so you are saying that what ever, between 40% and 80% is fine? do you lick your finger for temperature too?

I would not hire you to work with our animals, that attitude would never pass.

You claim to be a scientist. Where is your data that the humidity is not seasonal consistent? The weather charts I have seen for the region she clearly the dew point day to day week to week are quite similar (dew point is a good indication of AH). It reality is on the ground in costal Africa the humidity is remarkably stable and predictable. Your belief in its instability is based on nothing but your misunderstanding.

There is no way you will ever convince me that 40-80% RH is ok anywhere inside there, most here agree 5% up or down is all they tolerate that translates into 4ºF window for ambients, you cannot seriously believe everyone in the hobby holds such a narrow ambient temp range?

Firstly, claim to be a scientist? I am a Neurotoxicologist at University of Colorado Medical School getting my PhD in Biochemical and Molecular Toxicology. Feel free to consult the CU Denver Toxicology webpage for corroborating evidence regarding my claims of being a scientist. My username here is my actual name.

Secondly, you have an incomplete understanding of the definition of accuracy vs precision. Of course you use the finest instrument available and go off of the data that you have available. But what you don't understand is that you are chasing a moving target. With an imperfect tool to measure temps and humidity, you are likely to have swings +/- a few percent based off of a flawed system. THUS, getting back to what the OP was actually asking, a 5-10 % increase in humidity when putting in fresh substrate is NOT an issue because you likely have swings in humidity NORMALLY due to hygrometers and thermometers not being perfect instruments.

Bashing a newbie because they didn't do the "necessary" calculations for determining humidity is just not productive, and IMO prevents people from using these forums properly. Regarding data from natural conditions, humidity in sub-Saharan Africa oscillates between 70-95 percent relative to seasonal rain (obviously). Therefore, even a 15% increase, and a temporary one at that IS NO BIG DEAL.

Also, you're in luck regarding not hiring. I seem to have a pretty lucrative career as a biomedical scientist.

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Originally Posted by JoshSloane

Firstly, claim to be a scientist? I am a Neurotoxicologist at University of Colorado Medical School getting my PhD in Biochemical and Molecular Toxicology. Feel free to consult the CU Denver Toxicology webpage for corroborating evidence regarding my claims of being a scientist. My username here is my actual name.

Secondly, you have an incomplete understanding of the definition of accuracy vs precision. Of course you use the finest instrument available and go off of the data that you have available. But what you don't understand is that you are chasing a moving target. With an imperfect tool to measure temps and humidity, you are likely to have swings +/- a few percent based off of a flawed system. THUS, getting back to what the OP was actually asking, a 5-10 % increase in humidity when putting in fresh substrate is NOT an issue because you likely have swings in humidity NORMALLY due to hygrometers and thermometers not being perfect instruments.

Bashing a newbie because they didn't do the "necessary" calculations for determining humidity is just not productive, and IMO prevents people from using these forums properly. Regarding data from natural conditions, humidity in sub-Saharan Africa oscillates between 70-95 percent relative to seasonal rain (obviously). Therefore, even a 15% increase, and a temporary one at that IS NO BIG DEAL.

Also, you're in luck regarding not hiring. I seem to have a pretty lucrative career as a biomedical scientist.

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I'm normally against arguments on a thread where someone needs help but this is magnificent.


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My question is how do I make my own thread on here to get information an opinions bout my snake

Glad I can provide some entertainment. I have 30+ min to kill in the lab between experiments and this fills the gap perfectly.

I just remember being new to this many years ago and getting the online b*tch smack by some senior forum members for not dogmatically following some esoteric strict standard. Doesn't help a new snake owner have any peace of mind with their new addition.

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Originally Posted by steve_mead27

My question is how do I make my own thread on here to get information an opinions bout my snake

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Go to the forum sub-section you wish to post in, and in the upper left hand corner click on "Post New Thread"

Kitedemon.....could a wet bulb , dry bulb thermometer and a chart be used to calculate RH ?

What I was saying is that the OP has it perfect. He/she is on target perfectly given their ambient air temp.

I see what you are saying but what i am saying is simple. RH is a percentage and as such it is a variable scale. Inside the acceptable air temps for a Royal 45-85% Rh all can be 15.5gm/m3.

You are suggesting not to bother measuring RH? or temp? Because some have thermometers that are 2ºC +/- Or hygrometers that are 5%+/- ?

Are you suggesting that it doesn't matter if you should be in the 80%RH area and only have 40%RH ?

Or are you suggesting that the rest of us are too stupid to understand such things and just guess because we are knuckle dragging Neanderthals?


I simply don't understand why anyone would not suggest as much as 20% up or down is acceptable?

If case you didn't bother to ever look up anything on RH in the range of a Royal ambient air temp and using very crude averages every 2ºF (roughly) from 80ºF represents 5% shift in RH. If it is cooler add and warmer subtract.

Skeletor yes but it is overly complicated and not practice. Just use a hygrometer, I would actually suggest calibrating them (test kit for digital and salt test for analogue) and then take the ambient air temp and add or subtract 5% for ever 2ºF less is pointless but ten 10% is not. It has been demonstrated over and over by posts of people claiming they need more than 60% to get a good shed.

So Kite, if I have a ambient temp of 77.4 and my digital hygrometer is reading 68% am I in danger? Also, if I have different ambient temps in my tub at various locations by probe/digital thermometer but still have my digital hygrometer showing 68% is that cause for concern? Thanks.

Here's a good one: I have small tubs because baby snakes. The hygro I have is an acurite which is rather large so the hygro part is right next to the water dish, and it reads at 50%-60% unless they spill water onto their aspen then it reads super high when it it's really still 50%. I can't really get a good reading, but I've found that spraying their lids works good. What small hygros are accurate?


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And round and round we go. I never once said that you shouldn't measure temps or humidity. Obviously you need to use the tools that you have to remain within acceptable parameters. I was merely responding to the OP's actual question regarding fluctuations in INCREASED humidity that was TEMPORARY.

In a perfect world Jesus would descend from the heavens, we would all hold hands, sing kumbaya and dance in a circle around our snake enclosures, and temps and humidity would remain static and perfect.

Until this happens, all we can do is do our diligence to keep enclosure conditions as close as possible to ideal, and not have a heart attack when minor and temporary fluctuations occur.

And last but not least, Neanderthals did not drag their knuckles, nor were they of diminished intelligence as you yourself have suggested. They walked upright, fashioned tools and developed communal living. Likely they even devised methods for calculating relative humidity in their own environments, but had the foresight to understand that humidity need not be exact, for exactness was impossible.

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Originally Posted by JoshSloane

And round and round we go. I never once said that you shouldn't measure temps or humidity. Obviously you need to use the tools that you have to remain within acceptable parameters. I was merely responding to the OP's actual question regarding fluctuations in INCREASED humidity that was TEMPORARY.

In a perfect world Jesus would descend from the heavens, we would all hold hands, sing kumbaya and dance in a circle around our snake enclosures, and temps and humidity would remain static and perfect.

Until this happens, all we can do is do our diligence to keep enclosure conditions as close as possible to ideal, and not have a heart attack when minor and temporary fluctuations occur.

And last but not least, Neanderthals did not drag their knuckles, nor were they of diminished intelligence as you yourself have suggested. They walked upright, fashioned tools and developed communal living. Likely they even devised methods for calculating relative humidity in their own environments, but had the foresight to understand that humidity need not be exact, for exactness was impossible.

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Well, the interjection of a religious nature is unnecessary. We all have our own beliefs and don't need you to bring in religion into a forum solely about reptiles and their care. Wrong place and not warranted. :salute:

Ok ok, sorry to bring Jesus into it. I just thought that he would be able to appreciate a facetious remark.

IMO high spike of humidity is fine. Even after drying out my cypress mulch and mixing it with coconut husk I get spikes of 90%. I use a visual PVC enclosure with a UTH. My snakes eat perfectly fine and have really good sheads. They hide all day and roam a little at night. I’m not a breeder I own two ball pythons. One male super pastel DG and a female Phantom super blade clown.