I am here to stay

A lot of people are bailing on the retic community. People I have grown close to. Worked personally with. And created friendships with. . . As of this morning when the Ban was announced. The retic market was flooded with snakes as people sell out everything they have been working on.

I did not. . . .

I added one new snake to my collection today, thanks to the bailouts happening sadly, but her name is Freedom. Because that is what we are continually fighting for.

All retic owners on this forum, stand strong, hold fast. It happened to burms and we survived. We too, will survive this.

I haven't had the pleasure to own a retic I was hoping to one day


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It's all good as long as you never move out of state or have to take them for vet care. Pet owners will see very little blow back. But just think, Now you will never own a pied retic, or a cow, or a golden child.. EVER. the guy one state over will get to keep them but what you have now is all you'll ever legally get to have.

I am keeping my two girls. I got them with no intentions of breeding, they are pets. I hadn't planned on getting any more but if it comes down to someone needing to move an animal versus euthanize it, I'll find a way to take it.

I'm also sad to see people bailing on their collections, and discussions about turning off incubators, destroying eggs that won't hatch out before the 4/9 deadline, euthanizing gravid females, etc.

Also, reptile rescues are likely going to be inundated with retics this year.

Something really sad happening. I really sorry all of them, and all of you. That's typically a situation where the law force the people to choose between legality and humanity.

We cannot help from here. We cannot give any support beyond donations to USARK.
I feel myself useless. Will be here when time to take a global action.

Sorry to see this it really doesn't make any sense. ONE state can have a potential problem but everyone gets smacked in the face because of it. I've still got my burms but I don't breed them anymore. I've had them over 10 years and have no plans on getting rid of them but if I lose one it'll be difficult to replace and eventually it will be impossible.

I have seen nobody dumping snakes...where if I might ask?

I've been volunteering with a herp rescue for a long time now and we never really saw an uptick of people dumping their burms after they were listed. I guess we'll have to wait and see how it affects the retics.

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Originally Posted by bcr229

I'm also sad to see people bailing on their collections, and discussions about turning off incubators, destroying eggs that won't hatch out before the 4/9 deadline, euthanizing gravid females, etc..

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:mad::tears: Who? Why? I mean I know why but frickin seriously...?!?!? :taz: No. OMG. I don't have enough horrid things to say to this.

It's all horrific..the next month will be a rough one in the giant community. Fortunate for some they just opened their export doors so they will still produce and move offspring out to Europe.

On Monday USARK will be filing an amendment to their lawsuit to include the four species added today, and then it will be filing an injunction against FWS to prohibit enforcement of the regulation of the additional four species until the lawsuit has concluded. Hopefully the judge will sign off on the injunction.

I feel like if big chain pet stores like petco or pets plus sold retics and burms like they did boas, then some snakes on the ban would be off the list

I only just ot into this community and dont even have my first ball, but this is terrible, ive seen so many videos and herd so many people post on forums about how beautiful these animals are and it brings me to the brink of tears.. this cannot be about florida and its realeases, it just isnt, if it was then they would put more laws in regulation to that, no they dont want us to have these creatures, they want to starve the market of them and make it so that the recent generations are going to be the last... and i dont understand, all i can see is a ball curling up on my neck from when a breeder came to my school and showed us all of these beautiful creatures, and countless videos of people adoring their huge pets.. it just dosnt make sense to me.. why does it need to be a law like this?.. idk, i dont know if this even goes with the forum, its just deeply depressing and a plague of sorts..

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Originally Posted by xyzpdq75

I only just ot into this community and dont even have my first ball, but this is terrible, ive seen so many videos and herd so many people post on forums about how beautiful these animals are and it brings me to the brink of tears.. this cannot be about florida and its realeases, it just isnt, if it was then they would put more laws in regulation to that, no they dont want us to have these creatures, they want to starve the market of them and make it so that the recent generations are going to be the last... and i dont understand, all i can see is a ball curling up on my neck from when a breeder came to my school and showed us all of these beautiful creatures, and countless videos of people adoring their huge pets.. it just dosnt make sense to me.. why does it need to be a law like this?.. idk, i dont know if this even goes with the forum, its just deeply depressing and a plague of sorts..

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In a way it is and it isn't. Animal rights activists like HSUS took what was a isolated and contained issue only to the Everglades region of south Florida(which Florida already dealt with) and used some hypothetical and poorly thought out science that stated that in a 100 years I believe it was, that the climate would change in such a way that the wild Burmese pythons in the Everglades could migrate as for north as New Jersey to say that we should ban all constrictors.

To the OP: I commend you spirit and dedication to your animals

Yeah, this has been nailed on the head - its about the team with the deepest wallets, and the hundreds of thousands that the community has raised since 2012 with the legal fund for USARK, it is still not enough to keep our animals safe when operations like HSUS and PETA are turning over potentially millions via lobbyist to get these bills passed and persuade people like the USFWS to accept poor science as actual fact. This day will not go unforgotten. Many of us fought illness over the verdict. My fiance and I set on the couch and watched the live videos from the event posted by Matt on the retic nation, and cried as our rights, our dreams, were being hindered (Hindered - but not destroyed).

There is still hope. Wishing I could make it to NARBA up in chicago next weekend. It's going to be the last hoorah for the retic community if the last resort fails from USARK.

To keep things positive - I shot some fresh images to remind myself, and others, what we are working hard to protect.

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8612/...e2d9b8e8_b.jpg
Super Tiger 66% het albino 50% Super Dwarf F2 Female, 2013 - turns 2 in April

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8660/...0227b8d5_b.jpg
My fiance's pride and joy - 50% Jampea Goldenchild het Albino Male, 2013 - Just turned 2 a couple days ago

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8572/...6c7f73f7_b.jpg
Anthrax Male, 2014 - Prehistoric Pets holdback. Soon to turn 1 (April)

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8627/...8478b20f_b.jpg
A much needed rest. Goodnight from my family, to yours. The scales, and the furries. Simba, the Pixie-bob

Tics are so cool and awesome. It's a shame that ignorance and prejudice is strangling them.

It won't stand, we as a community will stand up and get this repealed. This is America where we are supposed to have the right to pursue our happiness I honestly believe that this ban is unconstitutional and hopefully someone with more legal experience than me can prove it. From what I've read the lacey act doesn't even actually ban the interstate transportation of said species across state lines. Just the importation from overseas and the exportation to Hawaii. I'll find that link when I get home and post it. I think it was on usarks page but I'm not sure.

Sent from my snake room

I'm military and just might have to move one day. I can't fathom letting go of my retics. I have even arranged to pay 800 dollars just so there taken care of when I have month long duties out of state.
I sold my burm just because of the Lacy act. Now I'm going to feel like I'm a drug smuggler if I want them to move with me if I get ordered somewhere else. How on earth did we lose some basic
freedoms?? Three combat tours and I come home to this???

This is a sad day. I feel for you guys. I totally freaked the day before the ruling when it was leaked by the miami herald and I thought that boas would be on the list too... I own 2, so was just overwhelmed by loosing my plans to own different morphs, different locals... All that would be taken away. Although I am glad that boas were not added, I hate to see any species added to this monstrosity,

I am in no position to give anyone advice, but if I were in your shoes, and wanting to breed, I would acquire any animals with genes that you want to use before the ban takes effect... Maybe network with other keepers in your state and see what genes they have so that you can preserve those in your state.

This is horrible and is an injustice to good people that just want to enjoy their hobby... Typical of a government that is too centralized and too big... They need to invent more problems as justification for growing larger and getting more funds and care nothing about the lives of those they have to trample on the way. This is not the US of the past.

I hope USARK is successful... For your sake and for every keeper of every species out there. I am so sorry this has happened.

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Originally Posted by artgecko

I am in no position to give anyone advice, but if I were in your shoes, and wanting to breed, I would acquire any animals with genes that you want to use before the ban takes effect... Maybe network with other keepers in your state and see what genes they have so that you can preserve those in your state.

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That is being done to an extent, but with some of the newer genes there simply may not be enough animals available to get a pair or even one into each state.

I joined USARK today and donated to the Reptile Defense Fund.

Reptileexperts is correct!

The battle is ON and if you want to do your part, joining and donating is the only way to this.

Sitting back because you don't own the "current" species under attack is a bad idea. Tomorrow or the next day it could be boas or royals.

You don't have to drop a ton of cash either. Just a little bit from a lot of people can help.

We can all voice our opinions here on the forums, but to really HELP, you have to donate to the folks that will be fighting for us!

Texas is set, we have everything available to us, many things which no one else may even have access to, like Tribal Retics. I'm not worried so much on that front at this time.

I MAY add one more gene to my pool before this all hits the fans (OGS) but my last addition was not cheap. And was meant to be the last.

There have been people out there right now, driving up their own debt to get animals into their state before the ban. This is silly if the market is not there in the state to begin with, there is no point to invest if they wont move. At this point, many of the wiser breeders are downsizing according to the viability of their state - Then, there are those who just wanted to make an easy buck that have completely thinned out their head, and are moving on with their lives in another direction .

At least you are in a big enough state to possibly have a descent market. With the smaller states, it may go the way of the fancy rat/mouse community etc... Basically breeding to swap animals / genes between breeders and only breeding enough to sustain your colonies (like only doing 1 clutch per year, etc.). If nothing else, it will weed out the people that just got into retics to make a quick buck.

I just hope that all states (or most) have access to SD genes. Size is what prevents many people (like myself) from even considering retics. With the advent of the SD genes and breeders working them into their projects, I had hoped that there would be more SD morphs available and in a few years, that the majority of retics would be smaller in size, so would appeal to a greater audience. The ban could seriously stifle that though.

Good luck with your collection! and I hope that your state has a good-enough market for you to continue to breed. (although truly, I'm hoping this thing gets repealed if USARK wins their case).

I still have aspirations to own a pure SD at some point and would love to get a Dwarf Burn as well, however we currently live in California and may be relocating to Texas in the next few years for work. All that being said because of this any new additions are on hold until we know if the move will happen or not. I am just hoping that in the mean time they dont decide to come after the large lizards as well because after all the work I have put into my Tegu I can't give her up.

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Originally Posted by jclaiborne

I still have aspirations to own a pure SD at some point and would love to get a Dwarf Burn as well, however we currently live in California and may be relocating to Texas in the next few years for work. All that being said because of this any new additions are on hold until we know if the move will happen or not. I am just hoping that in the mean time they dont decide to come after the large lizards as well because after all the work I have put into my Tegu I can't give her up.

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No fear, in Cali or Texas your SD niche will be covered - enough demand for pure locals is there that people are already collaborating to ensure that we have the local specific pairs that can reproduce in Texas. California has a slough of breeders who aren't going anywhere since the demand is consistent enough. It's places like Ohio, Michigan, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, West Virginia, and many many many more states that will suffer from this.

Don't be knocked down. This fight is not over.

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Originally Posted by reptileexperts

It's places like Ohio, Michigan, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, West Virginia, and many many many more states that will suffer from this.

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We've been coordinating with other breeders and owners in the state to determine what genes are missing and try to get them in before the deadline, but lack of QT space and lack of $$$ means we're going to miss out on some nice combos.

Are there any large propagations in WV? I cant recall for the life of me seeing any from there on the webs, aside from a couple here and there. Glad to know there is something going on!

Large? No. Certainly nothing on the order of Prehistoric Pets or Vital Exotics. At best there are maybe half a dozen of us. I expect breeding will be done very selectively, and offspring traded rather than sold.

Hmmm... I want to be clear about what I'm saying here because I would never advocate knowingly breaking the law, especially with animals being the ones at risk.

I am curious what kind of enforcement has been in place with this?

Let's say someone comes to your door and says "where did you get your snake?" and you let them know you got it from a guy named Joe on Craigslist. You don't have a 'sales receipt' and you can't find the guys email. Are people confiscating snakes or prosecuting owners in that situation?

Are there USFWS patrols going around stalking snake owners?

I'm sorry if I am missing some detail from the act, just curious since the original ban on burms etc. if anyone has reported a problem with the law as a result? Obviously people are not shipping snakes around any more, but has anyone had first hand negative experiences or known someone who has had an experience with enforcement of the Lacey act?

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Originally Posted by MrLang

Hmmm... I want to be clear about what I'm saying here because I would never advocate knowingly breaking the law, especially with animals being the ones at risk.

I am curious what kind of enforcement has been in place with this?

Let's say someone comes to your door and says "where did you get your snake?" and you let them know you got it from a guy named Joe on Craigslist. You don't have a 'sales receipt' and you can't find the guys email. Are people confiscating snakes or prosecuting owners in that situation?

Are there USFWS patrols going around stalking snake owners?

I'm sorry if I am missing some detail from the act, just curious since the original ban on burms etc. if anyone has reported a problem with the law as a result? Obviously people are not shipping snakes around any more, but has anyone had first hand negative experiences or known someone who has had an experience with enforcement of the Lacey act?

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Big breeders are being monitored and packages are being opened and examined for species confirmation. I do know that.

I have also heard word of a case that will soon hit the fans regarding Burmese that were photographed in one state undercover, then photographed again in another state at a big show.

Big brother knows some... not all... but some. The question to ask - is it worth becoming a felon if caught? People joke about the underground railroad of retics... but the law is just that... the law. No matter how retarded it becomes. We must be civil.

Ugh. This whole thing is making my antsy to get my SD retic now instead of later when who knows if I can get what I want when we finally settle in our "permanent" state after moving to AZ for 3-5 years for nursing program and job experience. We are thinking about Idaho and I can't imagine that has a big reptile market. It just sucks because who knows what the future will hold and what if we end up having to move from where we think we'll stay. I don't want to commit a felony, but I wouldn't want to give up my snake(s). I can't imagine they'd find a snake packed away amongst all the other stuff while moving, but still a felony isn't anything to play with. Any anyone caught just makes us all look bad and furthers the stereotype and the problem we face. And people having them and sharing photos and such, then moving to another state, and more photos of same snake, is pretty obvious.

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

It's all good as long as you never move out of state or have to take them for vet care. Pet owners will see very little blow back. But just think, Now you will never own a pied retic, or a cow, or a golden child.. EVER. the guy one state over will get to keep them but what you have now is all you'll ever legally get to have.

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IMO, that is why we are donating specifically to the defense fund and the lawsuit! We are going to stand strong with USARK and oppose this legislation. It's absolutely insane and criminal what the USFWS did. Reptile owners have no control over the climate and it's tropical storms and hurricaines that have notoriously been a problem in south florida for decades. They are using large constrictor owners as scapegoats! We really have to support each other and overturn this lacey act. We can do it, this is truly unacceptable!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! " Never say never". :gj: :gj: :gj:

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Originally Posted by Marrissa

Ugh. This whole thing is making my antsy to get my SD retic now instead of later when who knows if I can get what I want when we finally settle in our "permanent" state after moving to AZ for 3-5 years for nursing program and job experience. We are thinking about Idaho and I can't imagine that has a big reptile market. It just sucks because who knows what the future will hold and what if we end up having to move from where we think we'll stay. I don't want to commit a felony, but I wouldn't want to give up my snake(s). I can't imagine they'd find a snake packed away amongst all the other stuff while moving, but still a felony isn't anything to play with. Any anyone caught just makes us all look bad and furthers the stereotype and the problem we face. And people having them and sharing photos and such, then moving to another state, and more photos of same snake, is pretty obvious.

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Hey, that's why we have to stay committed to USARK and defeat this! Don't just give in to the USFWS! We have rights and we need to excersise them. The lawsuit that USARK is undertaking is our hope guys. Donate and speak up for each other! Peace! They [ USFWS] have to know that this cannot remain a law! We absolutely don't have to take this..... Peace. :gj:

I think the biggest risk would actually be while transporting the snake... i.e. cops pull you over for speeding and see the live animal box in the floorboard... Also, if you went to show "A" in state "A" then went home to state "B" you could be followed, etc.

Obviously, the more photos of the animals in question the easier it would be to prove that you got it from out of state.

BUT... I'm not advocating for breaking the law... I don't think it would be worth it.. Of course, I say that now. If boas get added and we move, I might be singing a different story.

I joined USARK this week and am hoping that they will get this overturned... But suing the fed. in a fed. court doesn't give you good odds... The branches of govt. tend to support the other branches more than they check them these days. :/

This is another good example of the govt. turning an above-ground legal trade into something that could easily become black market. *sigh*

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Sorry for the poop pic but I'm exhausted. Just got this girl set up in QT. I never thought I'd say this so soon but this is my Phantom Sunfire het genetic stripe girl! Dwarf blood of course ;)

Ha couldn't help yourself before this all settles could you? It's awesome to see someone adding to their collection instead of liquidating it. Hopefully in the next week I'll be able to say that I have a retic coming my way

I've added to my collection here in AZ as well. Just got a white albino sunfire at a show and am picking up a pure SD from a local breeder this weekend.

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15...6274467c35.jpg

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15...d4507cf960.jpg

Had to share.

Sent from my snake room

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Finally took a nice photo in the QT rack last night of my new addition. And will have my second and last new retic from out of state this morning!

So pretty! So you raise your own feeder rabbits? I looked up the price of F/T rabbits the other day and damn that's a big food bill if not.

Retics are amazing snakes. I'm in alberta, (they are illegal here) but I got the chance to touch and see one a few weeks ago. Beautiful animals.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Ugh. I was reading up about this a minute ago, and I came across the HSUS' site. One of their reasonings to support this ban is that "a dozen people have been killed by large pythons in North America in the last decade."

There are probably a dozen pitbull killings/maulings a week in my state alone, and I still don't support breed specific legislation...

I understand that their argument is not one of logic, but of persuasiveness to support a further agenda. It just bothers me.

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Originally Posted by Running Elk

Ugh. I was reading up about this a minute ago, and I came across the HSUS' site. One of their reasonings to support this ban is that "a dozen people have been killed by large pythons in North America in the last decade."

There are probably a dozen pitbull killings/maulings a week in my state alone, and I still don't support breed specific legislation...

I understand that their argument is not one of logic, but of persuasiveness to support a further agenda. It just bothers me.

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It also flies in the face of what our own government reports. Also, I find the last sentence rather amusing, the same argument can be made for every potential risk from, say, dying in a car wreck while commuting to work, to dying of a potential allergic reaction from eating shellfish.
http://www.usgs.gov/faq/node/3268

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Are large constrictor snakes such as Burmese pythons able to kill people? What is the risk? Would this be in the wild too, or in backyards?Human fatalities from non-venomous snakes are very rare, probably only a few per year worldwide. All known constrictor-snake fatalities in the United States are from captive snakes; these are split between deaths of snake owners who were purposefully interacting with their pet and deaths of small children or infants in homes where a snake was kept captive as a pet. There have been no human deaths from wild-living Burmese pythons in Florida. Overall, the risk of attack is very low, but would likely be greatest in natural habitats (the wild).

However, we cannot categorically rule out the possibility of an attack in agricultural or suburban areas. Because many suburban areas and even backyards, neighborhoods, and parks in Florida include ponds, canals, or other bodies of water where large snakes could feel at home, the situation is likely similar to that experienced with alligators: attacks are improbable but possible in any locality where the animals and people are present. The simplest and most sure-fire way to reduce the risk of human fatalities is to avoid interacting with a large constrictor.

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