Average Price List?

I was wondering if there was an average price list for BP Morphs somewhere.. anyone have a link if there is would be great.

The reason I am asking is because I found a Super Pastel Jungle for $200 and it seems really cheap so it got me wondering how much each morph really sells for.

I doubt it. It's mostly supply and demand, then it's what the seller thinks they would be able to get for it, then up to the buyer to pay or haggle... I thought I would have to buy a single gene desert for $179.99 online + shipping, and was pretty close to doing so (I wanted a tiger(enchi, desert)). Then my wife was talking to a breeder in Cali about a tiger. He sold us a Pastel Tiger for $150 shipped right before winter.

I am very new to the different morphs which makes me a bit clueless on prices lol.. do you think $200 is cheap for a Female Super Pastel Jungle?

Oh and thank you for replying by the way.

You are welcome! I haven't seen too many jungles for sale so I would not be able to say what I think this particular snake could go for. The super pastels have sold for less than $150, so it could be in the ballpark price wise. Is it an online with shipping or pick up close by? That could play a role on prices too.

That is without shipping fees

You can go on Kingsnake Classifieds or Fauna Classifieds and do a search. Plug in the keywords like Super Jungle Pastel and look at everything that comes up to compare pricing. It won't sort the query but instead will bring up every add that contains those three words, so you may have to hunt for a match, but it should give you an idea of pricing.

Pastels are sometimes called jungles or pastel jungles, but what you're looking at is a super pastel. I'm having some trouble finding a price on a regular super pastel seeing as they're usually mixed with something else, but it looks like 200 is what you would pay for one from a bigger name breeder. Is the seller very well known? If you have your heart set on a super pastel, you could probably find a girl for a better deal than that.

A thorough search of a morph if you aren't sure will tell you a lot. Lesser platinum and pastel jungle are just longer names for lesser and pastels that make them sound like more than they are.

I wish there was Kelley blue book for snakes. I too wonder what is worth that and if I am over paying or getting a deal..

I vote someone start one up!

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Originally Posted by Redlude92

I wish there was Kelley blue book for snakes. I too wonder what is worth that and if I am over paying or getting a deal..

I vote someone start one up!

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The biggest task there is that there are literally thousands of morphs available. I imagine that a wiki-type page might work, or perhaps we could petition the people over at WoBP to add a pricing option to the bottom of each page? Either way, I agree such a thing would be really helpful.

It would also help if someone could come up with a formula of some kind for adding in multiple genes, which isn't always just adding in the total cost of the morphs present.

A price range of any sort would be so helpful to a lot of people

What's your suggestion for keeping up with price potentially changing every week on thousands of snakes? Also the formula is simply supply and demand. Fire clown is worth quite a bit more than a pastel clown, despite fires and pastels are not that different in price. Also a price list might become a bible like world of ball python has... And we see what a problem that has become.

The problem with the OP's question is that there are a lot of variables that factor into the price.
Male versus female
Hatchling, juvenile, adult, or proven adult
Eats rats versus only mice or ASF
Eats only live versus frozen/thaw
Picky eater
Morph quality
Local cash sale versus transaction with electronic payment + shipping
Seller's reputation
Buyer's reputation

I paid $200 for my Super Pastel female last year, if you're looking at a male it should be cheaper than $200. I've not seen anyone outside of Kevin at NERD still use the Jungle name, I may be mistaken though. Did a check of NERD's site and they have a Super Pastel male for $150 which includes overnight shipping in the cost.

It's a great idea but it would never work because the prices on BPs fluctuate so much. Some people will try to sell their animals as cheap as possible just to get rid of them while others wait to get what they think their animal is worth.

Additionally, there would have to be a "clarity" scale like they have for dimonds because price usually depends on quality of the animal. Also it depends if it's a male or a female, what they weight is, and if they're proven or not. It's just too many variables.

Price would be more like a range, and I think you could keep up with it fairly well by just adding in a feedback-type box to a morph list (like WoBP) that says "I purchased/sold this snake for ____". Price would read "average price is between x and y", ignoring a percentage of prices well outside the range (you bought this snake for 5 dollars when the going price is 200? I don't think so). It would probably also be helpful to sort the results by how recent they are (I'm thinking increments of 3 months, 6 months, 1 year, 5 years?). You would still face an issue with people giving false reports to raise/lower average prices to fit their needs, so adding in some moderators and a report false information button might be a needed precaution.

Complicated? Maybe. I think it's totally doable, though.

how do you rate quality and weight age? also I sell animals for different prices depending on how well I know the person, my friends and repeat customers get discounts. then there are multiple animal discounts. How to you verify reports?

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Originally Posted by Redlude92

I wish there was Kelley blue book for snakes. I too wonder what is worth that and if I am over paying or getting a deal..

I vote someone start one up!

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Although it would make things a lot easier, prices would change too rapidly for it to even be helpful. It would have to rely entirely on self-reported sales (car sales are obviously easier because they're heavily regulated). I've seen morphs go from $15,000 one year to about $300 a couple years later. The database would have to constantly be updated... even a matter of months without editing would make the whole thing a joke.

To figure out if you're getting a good price, search for that morph on faunaclassifieds.com and kingsnake.com, and compare prices. You also have to take into consideration the sex, age, weight, and even what the snake is eating (i.e. a female, two year old, 1400 gram coral glow eating rats will be worth +10 times as much as a male, two month old, 100 gram coral glow who refuses to eat anything but mice.)

As a community we need to stop trying to undercut the price to make a sale and hold to our guns. Otherwise we are going to ruin this hobby and eventually at the rate we are going there will be as many snakes in shelters as cats and dogs and some will habe to be put down. Id hate for it to get there. Ive seen recently a pastel het clown male for 50 dollars, i just shook my head. Wanted to get it, but just couldn't do it to the hobby.

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Originally Posted by kylearmbar

As a community we need to stop trying to undercut the price to make a sale and hold to our guns. Otherwise we are going to ruin this hobby and eventually at the rate we are going there will be as many snakes in shelters as cats and dogs and some will habe to be put down.

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As a community we need to slow down breeding. This isn't a game. They're animals that need to be taken care of. The reason Ball Pythons are so cheap is because everyone and their mother wants to breed Ball Pythons. Most people don't even breed good combos. Most things I see on here is this: " I'm going to buy 5 double gene snakes and then breed them to my 3 normals". Seriously??? Then the same person who can't handle having all the hatchlings either sells them at rock bottom price or give them away. And people actually encourage breeding! Come on...

Personally, I think it's quite ridiculous how people barely begin to understand how to take care of Ball Pythons and right away try to breed them. With cats and dogs, they breed by themselves because they're not neutered or spayed. I don't see Ball Pythons breeding on the streets of California like rabbits.

As you see this is a HOT issue for me. It's one of my biggest pet peeves on this forum when I see someone who barely just got into the hobby asking how many snakes they should buy to breed. :/ Can't people enjoy their pets without breeding? Or even at least wait until you know how to properly care for the animal.

I've been in this hobby for 3 years (which is nothing by the way) and I'm barely deciding if I want to breed or not. I'm not saying It's wrong, but at least be responsible about it. Don't breed a crap load of animals if you can't afford it because these are living things and they need to be cared for. Doesn't matter whether it's Normal or a 10K BP. Also, if you want to breed as a hobby, keep a couple of animals and make sure you actually in it for the log haul. I see this phrase all the time "BPs are like Pringles". Well what happens when you get tired of eating Pringles? How many for sale threads are on here where people are "reducing" their collection or getting rid of the whole thing all together because "they don't have time"?

My rant is pretty much over. I'm just saying that if you are thinking about breeding think twice about it. These aren't stamps or Pokemon. You can't catch them all. These animals live 20+ years. That's a hell of a commitment for ANYONE to make. Most people get bored with hobbies after a few month or years or something changes in their life and then the animals they have suffer being neglected or end up on craig's list.

[QUOTE=Daigga;2323268]Pastels are sometimes called jungles or pastel jungles, but what you're looking at is a super pastel.[QUOTE]

That would explain why I haven't seen many...lol

I see what your all saying about not being able to keep up with a price list.

As for breeding, I am new to BP's .. got my girl about 6 months ago and she was my first. I admit that I do want another but for the sake of having them because i find them so fascinating and honestly love chilling with them. However I really have no urge to breed lol.

My son wants an albino and I think once I find the right one it will be the last for me *crosses my fingers*

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Originally Posted by Mr. Misha

As a community we need to slow down breeding.

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Breeding will slow down naturally as prices drop. The same holds true in other industries also - you can't avoid the supply/demand/price curve.

This is why the answer to "What should I breed" is always "Breed what you like, because you will probably end up keeping it."

Honestly I cant wait to see the bottom drop the rest of the way out of the bp market. Prices keep going down and people will eventually realize that bps are not a good get rich quick scheme. Its doing the same thing the corn market did a few years back, once it tanks it will right itself.

I started typing this and came back to realize this was just a rambling almost incoherent story but I liked it anyway...read at your own risk
*spelling and punctuation nightmare ahead*

We are a self feeding circle, it really is quite amazing to step back and look at.
-Person A is going to buy one snake x for $1000 so he can breed it and sell two of them to Mr. Soandso for $650 each (gonna make $300, nice gonna use that money to get a rack to get more snakes to sell).

-MrSoandso is buying two from person A for $500 (he talked you down it was a group deal, you broke even but next year it will be all profit) to breed them and sell 4 of them to Ms. Ssoandso for $200 each.

-Ms. Soandso is buying those four from Mr. Soandso for $400 (hey the market it tight, Person A was selling his snakes cheap this year to try and make some money, prices have dropped, atleast Mr Soandso came close to getting his money back. Next year he will make a profit though. Just gotta reinvest that $400 into a new snake) She is going to breed them to sell for $50 each, there is no buyer lined up yet but at that price they are sure to sell.

-Now PersonA Mr. Soandso, and Ms. Soandso realize that this morph is not gonna make enough money to justify breeding (after all feed, heating, time mean snakes cost money...the initial purchase is not all you have to pay) They all decide to sell their snakes, in walks new guy Y He is gonna be rich...gonna be the next big name in snake breeding. He buys all the snakes he can get, he ends up with 20 of snake morph x...yeah gonna have all kinds of babies next year...gonna be rich. He ends up with 120 babies the next year that no one wants. What happens to those babies?

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Originally Posted by Mr. Misha

As a community we need to slow down breeding. This isn't a game. They're animals that need to be taken care of. The reason Ball Pythons are so cheap is because everyone and their mother wants to breed Ball Pythons. Most people don't even breed good combos. Most things I see on here is this: " I'm going to buy 5 double gene snakes and then breed them to my 3 normals". Seriously??? Then the same person who can't handle having all the hatchlings either sells them at rock bottom price or give them away. And people actually encourage breeding! Come on...

Personally, I think it's quite ridiculous how people barely begin to understand how to take care of Ball Pythons and right away try to breed them. With cats and dogs, they breed by themselves because they're not neutered or spayed. I don't see Ball Pythons breeding on the streets of California like rabbits.

As you see this is a HOT issue for me. It's one of my biggest pet peeves on this forum when I see someone who barely just got into the hobby asking how many snakes they should buy to breed. :/ Can't people enjoy their pets without breeding? Or even at least wait until you know how to properly care for the animal.

I've been in this hobby for 3 years (which is nothing by the way) and I'm barely deciding if I want to breed or not. I'm not saying It's wrong, but at least be responsible about it. Don't breed a crap load of animals if you can't afford it because these are living things and they need to be cared for. Doesn't matter whether it's Normal or a 10K BP. Also, if you want to breed as a hobby, keep a couple of animals and make sure you actually in it for the log haul. I see this phrase all the time "BPs are like Pringles". Well what happens when you get tired of eating Pringles? How many for sale threads are on here where people are "reducing" their collection or getting rid of the whole thing all together because "they don't have time"?

My rant is pretty much over. I'm just saying that if you are thinking about breeding think twice about it. These aren't stamps or Pokemon. You can't catch them all. These animals live 20+ years. That's a hell of a commitment for ANYONE to make. Most people get bored with hobbies after a few month or years or something changes in their life and then the animals they have suffer being neglected or end up on craig's list.

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Exactly. I got my first bp in 1989. I'm almost 35 now and just now deciding to get into breeding. It's been something that I've dreamed of since I was 15. I see nothing wrong with doing something you love and trying to make a living/break if done responsibly. Generally speaking it's not the guys like Wilbanks, NERD or BHB that drive prices down. They are savvy businessmen who don't want to see these price drops and understand supply and demand. I looked on BHB's site and they have like 6 banana combos for sale. It's the dumb trust fund kid who heard bp's are money making machines went out and bought 2 banana males and paired them each to 10 females. Then got bored or realized they didn't have the time, knowledge, or reputation to take care or sell at market prices and dump them. I guess they skipped economics 101! It's an easy concept....supply up, prices down; supply down, prices up!

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Originally Posted by KING JAMES

He ends up with 120 babies the next year that no one wants. What happens to those babies?

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Well, Eastern Indigos, King Cobras, and monitor lizards gotta eat too...

And before getting upset about that statement, as yourself, where are all of the desert & desert combo females? You can find males for sale.

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Originally Posted by bcr229

Well, Eastern Indigos, King Cobras, and monitor lizards gotta eat too...

And before getting upset about that statement, as yourself, where are all of the desert & desert combo females? You can find males for sale.

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Desert females don't lay viable eggs. If you find a female for sale the seller usually states that it's for pet purposes only.

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Originally Posted by bcr229

Well, Eastern Indigos, King Cobras, and monitor lizards gotta eat too...

And before getting upset about that statement, as yourself, where are all of the desert & desert combo females? You can find males for sale.

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LOL it would take a lot more than that to upset me, feeders are feeders and I have no problem with that, I think I have even stated before that snakes no one wants are the reason I keep a big king. I just dont like thinking about the ones that are going to die slow due to neglect. Deserts, thats a whole nother game for me...I am keeping myself out of it but I do believe that certain desert combos are perfectly fine, its just the base morph that causes issues.

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Originally Posted by JMBall's

Desert females don't lay viable eggs. If you find a female for sale the seller usually states that it's for pet purposes only.

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That was my point. You very rarely see a female desert or desert combo for sale, even with the pet-only qualification, but you can find males. Theoretically there should be about the same number of females on the market. Since there aren't, where do they go?

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Originally Posted by bcr229

That was my point. You very rarely see a female desert or desert combo for sale, even with the pet-only qualification, but you can find males. Theoretically there should be about the same number of females on the market. Since there aren't, where do they go?

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Same place the panda pied's went I think. Either kept because of minor kinking issues or culled. People have been trying for those like crazy...you can find plenty of black pastel pieds for sale but only a couple of pandas have ever been "produced?" Me thinks not! Only a few have been "released."

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Originally Posted by KING JAMES

Deserts, thats a whole nother game for me...I am keeping myself out of it but I do believe that certain desert combos are perfectly fine, its just the base morph that causes issues.

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what evidence would point to that?

I also find it interesting how off topic this got :rolleye2:

I always look up what I am buying to find an "average" price

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Originally Posted by kylearmbar

As a community we need to stop trying to undercut the price to make a sale and hold to our guns. Otherwise we are going to ruin this hobby and eventually at the rate we are going there will be as many snakes in shelters as cats and dogs and some will habe to be put down. Id hate for it to get there. Ive seen recently a pastel het clown male for 50 dollars, i just shook my head. Wanted to get it, but just couldn't do it to the hobby.

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i saw a pair of clowns (one male and one female), both 9 months old, for $250.

not sure if that was $250 for the pair or per snake, but either way, it would have been an absolute steal.


which made me doubt the credibility of the ad, so i passed it up.

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

I also find it interesting how off topic this got :rolleye2:

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LOL since I was the one who brought up desert females, it was more along the lines of you just don't see them advertised since there's no "perceived" market for them. I'm guessing they are culled or fed off as they're "valued" less than even normal males. Supply - Demand - Price - Market ... it's all related. Buyers set the price, not sellers.

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Originally Posted by se7en

i saw a pair of clowns (one male and one female), both 9 months old, for $250.

not sure if that was $250 for the pair or per snake, but either way, it would have been an absolute steal.

which made me doubt the credibility of the ad, so i passed it up.

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Depends, there's an expression in pawn... the fast money is the low money. If the seller is motivated due to something like a job loss or unexpected bill, he may need to move animals for quick cash. That lowers the price. Or, it could be a scam as you pointed out.

Also not brought up but there's a collection sale over on Fauna now with some insanely low prices... because the seller admits some of the snakes have had recurring RI's for the last few months. Some buyers may decide to roll the dice on those snakes, and hope they don't come up craps. Not for me though.

i think i'll avoid buying snakes with health issues, no matter the price.

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Originally Posted by se7en

i think i'll avoid buying snakes with health issues, no matter the price.

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Some people like playing Russian roulette! Haha

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Originally Posted by bcr229

LOL since I was the one who brought up desert females, it was more along the lines of you just don't see them advertised since there's no "perceived" market for them. I'm guessing they are culled or fed off as they're "valued" less than even normal males. Supply - Demand - Price - Market ... it's all related. Buyers set the price, not sellers.

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They get sold or auctioned off as pet quality animals, usually about a quarter of the price you would pay for a comparable animal. Not many people actually seem to work with desert because of the reproductive issues, so they aren't all that easy to find anyway. I have a bit of an issue thinking about culling or feeding off ball pythons just because the perceived value is low, does anyone actually do this? I've seen normal males sold for 15 dollars at shows, and I'm pretty sure if nothing else chain pet stores would buy them up wholesale to sell as pets, killing them off just seems like an unnecessary and sad waste.

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Originally Posted by Redlude92

I wish there was Kelley blue book for snakes. I too wonder what is worth that and if I am over paying or getting a deal..

I vote someone start one up!

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I started a new website called MorphMarket, which lets you do super-specific searches on gene combinations, including hets to find out the going rate. Also it includes not only the current for sale but also previously listed data. Over 4,000 data points and growing.

In the future, this data can be used to produce current market price and trends for different morphs.

(I am only mentioning this site on here because it is exactly the topic of this conversation).

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Originally Posted by jplehmann

I started a new website called MorphMarket, which lets you do super-specific searches on gene combinations, including hets to find out the going rate. Also it includes not only the current for sale but also previously listed data. Over 4,000 data points and growing.

In the future, this data can be used to produce current market price and trends for different morphs.

(I am only mentioning this site on here because it is exactly the topic of this conversation).

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ask and yee shall receive!

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Originally Posted by Mr. Misha

. I see this phrase all the time "BPs are like Pringles". Well what happens when you get tired of eating Pringles? How many for sale threads are on here where people are "reducing" their collection or getting rid of the whole thing all together because "they don't have time"?

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But I love pringles. lol
I also know my limitations and capabilities when it comes to how large my collection can be and when to breed or skip it. They are pets, not commodities.
I, personally, use that phrase in regards to BPs because I'm a boa person and didn't expect to enjoy and like so many of the BPs.

I agree with many points in this thread about how difficult it can be to have a master price guide simply because of how quickly prices can drop, fluctuate and the variables involved. Also agree that breeding need to slow down (wishful thinking). People need to stick to their guns a bit more on pricing and not dump pricing just because one bad apple tries to spoil the bunch. The writings been on the wall for years and has/is happening with other species as well (like corn snakes for instance).

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Originally Posted by JMBall's

Generally speaking it's not the guys like Wilbanks, NERD or BHB that drive prices down.

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Hmm and who was it that bred bananas to everything under the sun and flooded the market?
Maybe I am not remembering correctly... but the big guys have the income to get in on the next hot thing early, breed a bunch of them, make their money and then move on to the next thing.

The 'glory days' when the first pieds for $20k. *takes off rose colored glasses* I'm still shocked how quickly pricing on things like albinos dropped. Ahh business. I guess it's inevitable.

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Originally Posted by AbsoluteApril

But I love pringles. lol
I agree with many points in this thread about how difficult it can be to have a master price guide simply because of how quickly prices can drop, fluctuate and the variables involved.

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Prices drop and fluctuate quickly in the stock market too, but those aspects don't make them difficult to track. The more challenging factor here is volume, and availability of transaction information.

Regarding variables, beyond traits, sex, weight, and age, MorphMarket has now added additional fields for maturity (generalization on weight/age, ie. subadult), prey food and type (ie rat, live), whether proven as a breeder, to collect better data and communicate more to buyers. But one can always think of more questions that should be asked, like how many eggs she's laid, how well it's eating etc. Of course visual quality huge, and not really quantifiable.

A better metaphor would be to residential real estate, I think. Just like our prized animals, houses (especially once used) are each individual items. When you go on Zillow you can see many quantifiable bits of data plus lots of pictures. While there are still many questions to be asked, Zillow (and the systems the professionals use) are extremely useful -- even essential -- for making comparisons and getting a reasonable price range.

We have been doing the same thing for years, using the forums to find out what seems to be a fair price range. It's just been extremely difficult.