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What i realized..
Gonna do what erryybody was trying to inform me to do, but i ain't wanna hear it..Sooooo.. i decided today to step back on the breeding phase for like 3-4 months so i can SAVE up and purchase an ALBINO male ball python, and watch the beginning start next season..!!!
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HOPE ya'll MODS/ADMINS see this, people on forums wait till a thread is CREATED so they can pounce on the creator's thoughts... i ain't even get ONE congrats or let me/us know how it turns out, HOPE erryything works out for you....
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Maybe even A I'M GLAD YOU CAME TO YOUR SENSES..!! ;-)
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Re: What i realized..
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECechoHO
HOPE ya'll MODS/ADMINS see this, people on forums wait till a thread is CREATED so they can pounce on the creator's thoughts... i ain't even get ONE congrats or let me/us know how it turns out, HOPE erryything works out for you....
You'll probably pounce on me for saying this, but you do realize that it's Monday afternoon 2 hours after you started this thread and a lot of people are at work, right?
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Glad to see you are taking a step back to be able to make more informed choices. Good luck with whatever you decide to do. Just keep a open mind and learn as much as you can.
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Re: What i realized..
I'll admit I'm glad you decided to go about it this way. I know the excitement of producing little baby snakes is hard to resist, but there really is so much more to it. Now remember that albino is recessive so when you breed him to your normal you're going to get normal looking babies that are carrying the gene for albino. just keep that in mind and maybe look at picking up another female that is het albino and maybe has a dominant or co-dominant mutation as well. Either way, best of luck and keep researching everything.
Sent from my snake room
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Re: What i realized..
Eric Alan, very true what you said, I wasn't thinking because ERRRRYYTIME a few seconds after my posts they replied to ASAP by others..!!!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Alan
You'll probably pounce on me for saying this, but you do realize that it's Monday afternoon 2 hours after you started this thread and a lot of people are at work, right?
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Re: What i realized..
very much UNDERSTOOD, those two normals were my second group that i ever owned so i want to start my BBP's with my starter set, not any type hets that i would buy..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemisace
I'll admit I'm glad you decided to go about it this way. I know the excitement of producing little baby snakes is hard to resist, but there really is so much more to it. Now remember that albino is recessive so when you breed him to your normal you're going to get normal looking babies that are carrying the gene for albino. just keep that in mind and maybe look at picking up another female that is het albino and maybe has a dominant or co-dominant mutation as well. Either way, best of luck and keep researching everything.
Sent from my snake room
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Re: What i realized..
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECechoHO
very much UNDERSTOOD, those two normals were my second group that i ever owned so i want to start my BBP's with my starter set, not any type hets that i would buy..
I get wanting to start with snakes you've already purchased, but in this case you've figured out that's a bad idea. As far as hets go, you do know how the albino gene works right?
Sent from my snake room
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I'm glad you came to a decision that works for you. Good luck on your plans!
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Re: What i realized..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemisace
I get wanting to start with snakes you've already purchased, but in this case you've figured out that's a bad idea. As far as hets go, you do know how the albino gene works right?
Sent from my snake room
This x2. Just making sure you know what you are getting into. The albino gene is recessive, meaning you would need to breed two albinos, or an albino and a het albino, to produce any visual albinos.
I am happy you decided to take the advice that everyone here gave you.
We really are not bad people, we just really care about our passion.
Take this time to focus on getting everything right, and keeping everything right with whatever you purchase in the future, and continue to research. You'll get there.
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Re: What i realized..
let me see if what i was reading/researching on is the same thing you talking about... An Albino Male to a Norm Female, would produce (all these numbers are ROUGH-LIES) OK SO 2 would be born normal with het qualities, 2 more would be NORMS, and 1 a visible Albino...LMAO feel like i'm taking a test..lololol
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemisace
I get wanting to start with snakes you've already purchased, but in this case you've figured out that's a bad idea. As far as hets go, you do know how the albino gene works right?
Sent from my snake room
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Re: What i realized..
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECechoHO
let me see if what i was reading/researching on is the same thing you talking about... An Albino Male to a Norm Female, would produce (all these numbers are ROUGH-LIES) OK SO 2 would be born normal with het qualities, 2 more would be NORMS, and 1 a visible Albino...LMAO feel like i'm taking a test..lololol
Not quite. All the babies would be 100% het for albino, and All the babies would appear normal. I believe you're thinking about how a dominant gene works, but albino is a recessive gene.
EDIT: Glad you decided to wait a bit and save up for some desirable genes before breeding!
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Re: What i realized..
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECechoHO
let me see if what i was reading/researching on is the same thing you talking about... An Albino Male to a Norm Female, would produce (all these numbers are ROUGH-LIES) OK SO 2 would be born normal with het qualities, 2 more would be NORMS, and 1 a visible Albino...LMAO feel like i'm taking a test..lololol
Uhm no, an albino male to a normal female would produce normal offspring that are 100% het or heterozygous for albino. You will never get an albino from a normal to albino breeding. Unless your female is het albino you're GOING to get all normal babies that are carrying the gene for albinism.
Sent from my snake room
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Ditto what the two above said. The next step would be to raise the het (or we'll say "gene carrying") babies up to breeding age and size, then pair them to each other or back to the albino male. Unless you're putting two visual snakes together, you aren't going to see visual babies until at least the third generation with a recessive project. And that's if the snakes you kept from your first batch of eggs get lucky when they all lay their first clutches (your odds are improved by pairing them back to the visual dad instead of to each other, but it's still all down to luck). That's why you see so many breeders talking about "the odds gods" and crossing their fingers every season. Recessive projects as a rule take more time and careful attention to what you're doing than others.
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aight thanks i got ya'll... been reading sooooo much about this just overlooked all the baby options i read..So from having all HET albino babies, would have to mate two of them to eachother or another HET Albino to produce what i posted earlier, then the 1 visible Albino would be HOMOZ..???
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Re: What i realized..
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECechoHO
aight thanks i got ya'll... been reading sooooo much about this just overlooked all the baby options i read..So from having all HET albino babies, would have to mate two of them to eachother or another HET Albino to produce what i posted earlier, then the 1 visible Albino would be HOMOZ..???
Pretty much. You'd end up with three normals; two of those three would be het for albino, but you won't be able to tell which two, so you have to sell all three as 66% possible hets. The one visible albino would be homozygous for it.
Now, if you take one of those het babies and instead of mating it to a sibling, mated it back to an albino (like the father), you'd get 50% of the litter visible albino, and 50% of them would be 100% het for albino.
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Re: What i realized..
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECechoHO
aight thanks i got ya'll... been reading sooooo much about this just overlooked all the baby options i read..So from having all HET albino babies, would have to mate two of them to eachother or another HET Albino to produce what i posted earlier, then the 1 visible Albino would be HOMOZ..???
Now you're getting it. Your best odds would be to keep a baby female, who would be het albino, and breed her back to your albino male. Half of those babies would be albino, the other half would be het albino.
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Re: What i realized..
If nobody has suggested this, here's an option.
If you want visual babies quickly, I would skip the recessive trait altogether(albino) and go with something that is a codominant or dominant trait. Something that you'll be able to breed with your normal female and still get visual babies.
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Re: What i realized..
That's very true, sir..the main thing is the price but if i'm willing to wait and save for this albino male, then i'll just have to see which co-dominate male would look better or make me proud of making morphs with him....
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbowman
If nobody has suggested this, here's an option.
If you want visual babies quickly, I would skip the recessive trait altogether(albino) and go with something that is a codominant or dominant trait. Something that you'll be able to breed with your normal female and still get visual babies.
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forgot to add DOMINANT, in that post...* ;-)
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Re: What i realized..
Take a look at the market....see what an albino male is going for compared to some co-dominant or dominant morphs. There is a decent amount of different morphs that you could buy for the price of an albino. As already mentioned....the benefit would be that you would get a visual morph within the first group of babies you produce, instead of waiting until at least the second generation.
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Re: What i realized..
I'm happy to see you try to learn and understand in the good way.
If you like that "lighter" colour snakes maybe you could try with Bananas or within the BEL complex (BEL-s, BlckEL-s, Crystals, bamboos and so on..). With two single gene animals you can make nice and valuable babys.
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Re: What i realized..
Thanks for you guys or girls comments, it's not the colour i want brighter, i just want a whole NEW different look, meaning something that doesn't take the norms colours or look a likes, i can purchase an albino for $199.99 + 29.99 for the overnight shipping.. My money saving game aint where it should be and them CoDominant/Dominant snakes cost alot more than what i'm prepared to save for...Haven't seen any CD's or D's in that 199.99 price range, if i can, or you guys or girls can point me in that dirrection, i would appreciate that very much..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mykuhl
Take a look at the market....see what an albino male is going for compared to some co-dominant or dominant morphs. There is a decent amount of different morphs that you could buy for the price of an albino. As already mentioned....the benefit would be that you would get a visual morph within the first group of babies you produce, instead of waiting until at least the second generation.
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Re: What i realized..
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECechoHO
Thanks for you guys or girls comments, it's not the colour i want brighter, i just want a whole NEW different look, meaning something that doesn't take the norms colours or look a likes, i can purchase an albino for $199.99 + 29.99 for the overnight shipping.. My money saving game aint where it should be and them CoDominant/Dominant snakes cost alot more than what i'm prepared to save for...Haven't seen any CD's or D's in that 199.99 price range, if i can, or you guys or girls can point me in that dirrection, i would appreciate that very much..
There are a TON of non-recessive snakes available in that price range! The For Sale section of this site (http://ball-pythons.net/forums/forum...tion-or-Wanted) is a good place to start, as well as either the BP section of Kingsnake.com (http://market.kingsnake.com/index.php?cat=32) or the Fauna Classifieds (http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...play.php?f=499). Just make sure to do a little homework on the sellers at either of the two classified sites - there a lot of great people advertising, but that's not true 100% of the time.
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Re: What i realized..
You may have better luck at a nearby reptile show. my lesser was only $75 and they had mojaves, cinnamons and black pastels for around that range also.
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Re: What i realized..
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECechoHO
HOPE ya'll MODS/ADMINS see this, people on forums wait till a thread is CREATED so they can pounce on the creator's thoughts... i ain't even get ONE congrats or let me/us know how it turns out, HOPE erryything works out for you....
You have to remember our first thoughts and posts are for the animals well being. I dont care how you take it, they are the first and most important thing.
The rest of the information we choose to share is for you. We have all started in about the same situation you are in.
Many of us did not have people willing to divulge the information that many have tried to pass on to you.
I am glad you are opening your eyes. The help is here IF you are willing to take it.
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congrats!
let me know how it turns out. Hope everything works out for you!
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There's plenty of 2 gene dom/codom animals you can find around the price of a male albino especially if you go to a local expo with cash in hand. For about $230 I'm sure you can find male bumblebees, pastaves, pewters, pastel lesser/butters, lemon blasts, and there are definitely some others I didn't mention. Just shop around I'm sure there's something out there that you can find that wouldn't be a multi generation project before you get any visual babies
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Re: What i realized..
See now you flipping ish, how do YOU know i'm not an animal lover myself, and want to produce the best of the best..?? Your first two sentences brought some HOSTILITY to this thread in which im NOT comfortable with, SO if you have nothing nice to say there's other threads that might want your opinion on Ball-Pythons.net....
Quote:
Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl
You have to remember our first thoughts and posts are for the animals well being. I dont care how you take it, they are the first and most important thing.
The rest of the information we choose to share is for you. We have all started in about the same situation you are in.
Many of us did not have people willing to divulge the information that many have tried to pass on to you.
I am glad you are opening your eyes. The help is here IF you are willing to take it.
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Re: What i realized..
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECechoHO
See now you flipping ish, how do YOU know i'm not an animal lover myself, and want to produce the best of the best..?? Your first two sentences brought some HOSTILITY to this thread in which im NOT comfortable with, SO if you have nothing nice to say there's other threads that might want your opinion on Ball-Pythons.net....
You at one point mentioned that the way you were being told you were wrong, was a way for those people to get killed. (link) So please don't act like you're catching a lot of hostility.
Have you corrected your husbandry on your current snakes or are they still living together? Planning to once you get a steady job? Only thing you've indicated with this thread was that you realized breeding normals and a new mystery het snake together aren't going to win you the ball python lottery. Which was kind of the tip of the iceberg for problems that were identified in the several threads that you made.
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Re: What i realized..
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECechoHO
See now you flipping ish, how do YOU know i'm not an animal lover myself, and want to produce the best of the best..?? Your first two sentences brought some HOSTILITY to this thread in which im NOT comfortable with, SO if you have nothing nice to say there's other threads that might want your opinion on Ball-Pythons.net....
You cant be that dense???
All the information given is about the animals.
Its not always about you so drop the drama party, you have played that out in several threads already.
To answer the questiin that you asked...... I have seen the photos YOU posted and your husbandry.
The photos speak for themselves IF you want the truth.
So now reread my post, think about it and try to absorb some of the i formation that many of us have tried to pass on to you.
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Re: What i realized..
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECechoHO
See now you flipping ish, how do YOU know i'm not an animal lover myself, and want to produce the best of the best..?? Your first two sentences brought some HOSTILITY to this thread in which im NOT comfortable with, SO if you have nothing nice to say there's other threads that might want your opinion on Ball-Pythons.net....
Sensitive much? Nothing in that post was a direct attack towards you. Where does it say you're not an animal lover? Where does it say you don't want to produce the best? If you felt hostility, it was because you went looking for it. Remember - you are posting on a public forum where everyone can, and will, give you their 2 cents worth. If you aren't willing to read everyone's opinion, there's no reason to ask for feedback. :rolleyes:
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Re: What i realized..
Try to relax Echo, and be a bit less aggressively defensive. What I see every post of Pit is just for the well being of your animals. Look behind it.. It's not a war. If someone honest, cannot be always gentle.
If you accept a little help.. (Without offense and jokes...)
1. Save space, energy and give a calm place for your snakes
look in here for make a rack. Easier than you think : http://ball-pythons.net/forums/forum...?125-DIY-Forum That's the first step. You can start tomorrow. You'll get here every help what you need.
2. Be realistic.
See for how many snakes you can give place and food. Count with the future hatchlings too. You cannot sell them right now out of the egg. And of course the holdbacks...
3. Make a plan and stick with.
Try to google up different morphs and see what you like really. Try to count out how much time you need to !make! that morph, and what base morphs you need for it. If you want a recessive project, you need much more time, but you can work out near your co-dom project(s). Still be realistic. Must learn to walk before you run.
4. If your setup and plans are okay,
find a good breeder and get a (or some) young female(s). Maybe a double (triple..) gene co-dom (or say....incomplete dominant) male what you can use with your normal female soon.
(4b) Build a small incubator and a small hatchling rack if you start to breed them and your new male make your female to go...
5. Patience.
Raise up your females, and start to search males for them. They are cheaper then females and they can breed much younger then them.
Here you can think about a bigger incubator and hatchling rack.
And read, learn, read, learn, ask, learn, read (x1000)
Everything will coming so easy and good if you build from the base.
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You have to remember our first thoughts and posts are for the animals well being. I dont care how you take it, they are the first and most important thing. <------- these are the two sentences was what i was talking about you saying that like i abuse my snakes or something, you can't/shouldn't judge the way i got things setup because erryybody doesn't have it like YOU do, there are some less financial people in the world.. now to sir Eric the way he worded that reply that "OUR first thoughts go out for the animals well being and they are the first and most important thing" like i don't LOVE any pet i might have, made that post HOSTILE..how would anybody feel if they keep getting told from OLD posts that they were not taking care of their pets/animals correctly...i understand this is a public forum and if you don't have anything positive to post then move on to the next thread..i ain't no snitch but i'm really going to start reporting people that post replies that pertain to the first post of the thread....
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Re: What i realized..
thanks... understand you but i really don't have that much space, living in a studio apt...thanks for the POSITIVE response..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felidae
Try to relax Echo, and be a bit less aggressively defensive. What I see every post of Pit is just for the well being of your animals. Look behind it.. It's not a war. If someone honest, cannot be always gentle.
If you accept a little help.. (Without offense and jokes...)
1. Save space, energy and give a calm place for your snakes
look in here for make a rack. Easier than you think : http://ball-pythons.net/forums/forum...?125-DIY-Forum That's the first step. You can start tomorrow. You'll get here every help what you need.
2. Be realistic.
See for how many snakes you can give place and food. Count with the future hatchlings too. You cannot sell them right now out of the egg. And of course the holdbacks...
3. Make a plan and stick with.
Try to google up different morphs and see what you like really. Try to count out how much time you need to !make! that morph, and what base morphs you need for it. If you want a recessive project, you need much more time, but you can work out near your co-dom project(s). Still be realistic. Must learn to walk before you run.
4. If your setup and plans are okay,
find a good breeder and get a (or some) young female(s). Maybe a double (triple..) gene co-dom (or say....incomplete dominant) male what you can use with your normal female soon.
(4b) Build a small incubator and a small hatchling rack if you start to breed them and your new male make your female to go...
5. Patience.
Raise up your females, and start to search males for them. They are cheaper then females and they can breed much younger then them.
Here you can think about a bigger incubator and hatchling rack.
And read, learn, read, learn, ask, learn, read (x1000)
Everything will coming so easy and good if you build from the base.
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Re: What i realized..
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECechoHO
You have to remember our first thoughts and posts are for the animals well being. I dont care how you take it, they are the first and most important thing. <------- these are the two sentences was what i was talking about you saying that like i abuse my snakes or something, you can't/shouldn't judge the way i got things setup because erryybody doesn't have it like YOU do, there are some less financial people in the world.. now to sir Eric the way he worded that reply that "OUR first thoughts go out for the animals well being and they are the first and most important thing" like i don't LOVE any pet i might have, made that post HOSTILE..how would anybody feel if they keep getting told from OLD posts that they were not taking care of their pets/animals correctly...i understand this is a public forum and if you don't have anything positive to post then move on to the next thread..i ain't no snitch but i'm really going to start reporting people that post replies that pertain to the first post of the thread....
If I though you abused them I have no problem tell you so don't put words into my mouth and please quit with the money thing.
Many of us started at the bottom, you chose a hobby that can cost as little or as much as you make it.
SMH...............
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Re: What i realized..
@ECechoHO, I've been following this tread and read other a you have posted and I'm glad your starting to listen to the advice with an open mind. With that said, remember the people in this hobby range anywhere from just hobbyist, with just a few animals, to big name breeders. They can make or break you and your reputation. Not everyone is out to get you, but if you pride keeps get in the way they will be.
@Pitontheprowl, I'll read anything that you have posted in, you tell it how it is. I just hope I'm never on the receiving end.
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Re: What i realized..
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECechoHO
... i really don't have that much space...
If you don't have space for a 5 shelf rack, where you want to put the hatchlings? and the 3 terrariums for your adults? .zip?
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alright Pit, if you know how i'm going to react, why do you keep posting to my threads, there's millions of users that i can get the real talk from without, your type of negative comments.. just cuz your a mod doesn't mean you have to comment..Like YOU SAID/AGREED to, we all had to start from SOMEWHERE so WHY are you pushing me soooo bad, you say stop talking about money but to provide for them money is the KEY factor..I don't post that much but i know your the reason why my REP keeps going in the red, so PLEASE stay away from my threads..
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My snakes are not A/MY HOBBY, they are my PETS...
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Re: What i realized..
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECechoHO
My snakes are not MY HOBBY...
Obviously not.
hob·by | ˈhäbē/ | noun | an activity done regularly in one's leisure time for pleasure.
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Again its a public forum.
You and I both chose to post.
At no point have I been rude, you choose to take everything personally.
Advice given to you is the same as given to others, you seem to be the only one that has a problem/attitude about it.
Everything in life cost money and we all feal with it.
Many others have tried to help as well.
There are cost effective ways to keep balls.
Maybe it would best serve you to read the DIY section a little.
Again the help is all around you if you are willing to take it.
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Re: What i realized..
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECechoHO
My snakes are not A/MY HOBBY, they are my PETS...
As soon as you chose to breed that changed.
Mine are all my pets too but once the count got over 50 its a part time job now.
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We need to get this guy and Zincubus together, so entertaining :rolleyes:
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BREEDING my pets doesn't make it a HOBBY, i just want different color pets...it's PUBLIC but im asking YOU, NOT to post on any of the threads i start.. just because something is PUBLIC, DOESN'T mean erryybody gotta take part of it....
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Re: What i realized..
Good luck with that. The request, not the breeding.
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Re: What i realized..
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECechoHO
BREEDING my pets doesn't make it a HOBBY, i just want different color pets...it's PUBLIC but im asking YOU, NOT to post on any of the threads i start.. just because something is PUBLIC, DOESN'T mean erryybody gotta take part of it....
Public community where everyone is encouraged to participate.
Have a nice day and make sure you want the truth if you ask a question.
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that's the reason i'm so aggressive when it comes to replies posted putting the way i take care of my PETS.. PIT is NOT living my life so his comments seem to be hitting me hard (PAUSE) because he doesn't know anything about the way my life is..... I'm ASKING you NICELY stay away from any post that says ECechoHO as the starter....
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NO participation is needed from YOU, your the reason my REP keeps going in the RED....
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