Honest opinions on feeding.

I have a new adult male BP, The first time I fed him I gave him a medium rat, (the biggest one the breeder had). He took it like a champ and had no issues. He was still searching around like he was looking for more food so I figured I would try to feed him again. After several hours of research and forums I decided that, for health benefits and safety, I would switch him to frozen. I bought a pack of two frozen rats from pets mart. I unthawed one in hot water, it came in a small plastic bag. After it was unthawed and at a good temp I tried to offer it to him, he showed zero interest in it and would move away. I spent 2 hours trying different methods of giving it to him.

I absolutely hated the process, it smelled terrible, two of the legs came off of the rat, and it was leaking all over the place. I was told that the rat could have been bad. I also realize he may not have been hungry. Either way 13 bucks for two medium rats that may be bad is outrageous, and the whole process was horrid.

My question is, how terrible is it for me to feed him live? I understand the risks but the breeder is very reliable and has shown me her entire setup and how she breeds her rats. I can buy a large rat for 5 bucks from her, and she has them readily available at all times. I was scolded by several people for feeding live and they made valid arguments, but I stand right by him and watch the entire process so of anything ever did happen I could intervene.
I would like to keep feeding live but from what I have been told and read so far it seems like a bad idea, at the same time he has always had live and the frozen feed was terrible. What are your opinions on it?

Feeding live isn't a terrible thing at all. The risk of injury is very low if you do it responsibly. Never leave prey alone with your snake for an extended period of time; that's when most of the injuries you hear about occur. I personally stand and watch until the prey is completely dead, waiting with a pair of tongs to put in its mouth if it's in a position where it can bite my BP. I'd personally prefer f/t, but my snake won't have any of that.

If you want to give f/t another shot and you don't want a f/t rat to get water logged and gross, you can put it in a baggie before thawing it. That way it stays dry :)

Some snakes just don't want frozen rats. As long as you feed responsibly (like DVirginiana said), there's hardly any risk in it. I think it's silly that people freak out so much about feeding live, especially since some people seem to think stunning a rat is a better option (which IS inhumane).

Having some snakes that eat F/T only and some that eat live only, I will say that I generally prefer feeding live for a variety of reasons. It takes less time to feed live, since there is no thawing process and I don't have to play with a dead rat to entice my snakes to eat. There's also the added bonus of not having to flush money every time a snake refuses to eat, which is nice.

I totally gave up on thawing rats in hot water, it is a very unpleasant process sometimes even if you put them in a baggy they can still end up wet. I just let mine thaw at room temp and then use a hair dryer to heat them up. Set them out take a nap and wake up and feed the snakes lol :P

I agree with you (AlexisFitzy). I stopped thawing in water. I let rat pups thaw for 2 hours, and Med Rats thaw for 4 hours. Then i set them under a halogen lamp on a paper plate for a few minutes per side.
I tried rats from the large pet stores. I wasnt happy with the quality at all.
The frozen rats i get from my local reptile pet store, are much better looking. After they are thawed, they look like a fresh killed rat. Not like a water logged, shriveled up rodent.

Just so you're aware, the majority of adult males will do just fine on a single small rat (50-90 grams) per week - with an occasional refusal being perfectly normal.

The likely reason he still looked hungry after you fed him is because they're programmed as opportunistic feeders. When prey is available they try to snatch up what they can because they don't know when their next meal is coming. Basically, once in feed mode they can stay that way for awhile. In captivity, we know exactly when we're going to be offering food next so there's no reason we need to feed them more than they need at any given time. It's also quite possible that the reason he refused the frozen/thawed meal was because he had a pretty good sized meal that filled him up in the meal before. How soon after his medium rat did you try the frozen one?

As Alexis said, feeding frozen/thawed doesn't have to be difficult at all. For me, when it's feeding day I wake up and pull out the amount of frozen rats I'm planning on offering and set them out on styrofoam trays in the snake room. After dinner, I break out the hairdryer to heat them up a bit and offer them to my snakes. It may take a little longer than feeding live, but I personally enjoy the time I spend with my collection when it's feeding day - the time spent thawing the rats is a non-issue for me since I don't really do anything besides pull them out of the freezer and let nature do its thing.

Edit: As far as the cost of frozen, buying in bulk online will be your best friend if that's the route you decide to go.

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some people seem to think stunning a rat is a better option (which IS inhumane).

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Not sure who those people are but not only is is inhumane to the prey but also increases danger for the snake, nothing worse than a stunned rat coming back from it's dazed.

As far as feeding it comes down to a few thing first being knowledgeable and second being responsible (that includes, supervising, feeding a prey that is not too big etc)

Live is fine, F/T is fine to the question is which one works best for you and your animal.

Now as for the size keep in mind that BP in captivity are overfed and while they surely can take larger prey, larger is not better, none of my males eat prey larger than 55/75 grams, by doing so this allow the animal to feed with consistency versus having an animal that fast, I even skip a week here and there on a regular basis.

Thank you all for your input. The rat was in a bag but it did get wet. I figured it was normal but it makes sense that it would be gross if it was wet. It was two days after feeding him a live that I tried with the frozen, I will make one more attempt in a week and let it thaw at room temp. If he doesn't take it then I will go back to live. The only reason I would still consider frozen is because to get live I have to drive an hour to get them, and petsmart is two blocks away. Thanks again everyone.

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Originally Posted by earthwormjim

Thank you all for your input. The rat was in a bag but it did get wet. I figured it was normal but it makes sense that it would be gross if it was wet. It was two days after feeding him a live that I tried with the frozen, I will make one more attempt in a week and let it thaw at room temp. If he doesn't take it then I will go back to live. The only reason I would still consider frozen is because to get live I have to drive an hour to get them, and petsmart is two blocks away. Thanks again everyone.

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If a male is on medium rats then he shouldn't need to eat more than once every two weeks.

Personally I would continue trying to get him on frozen because male BP's do go on periodic hunger strikes - and if he's not eating, then you're stuck caring for a live rat, potentially for a few months.

Petsmart feeders aren't exactly the best quality though, and I've read that theirs may thaw and then be re-frozen during their shipping & distribution process, which makes for disgusting feeders.

If the snake is used to eating live you should work on getting him to take prekilled, then it would be easier to get him on frozen thawed.

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Originally Posted by earthwormjim

My question is, how terrible is it for me to feed him live?

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Ball pythons have been eating live food for 70 to 90 million years. They're pretty good at it.

well my teacher (who owns a bp) hangs the live rats by their tail over the tank and then the rat can't hurt the bp and you can see if the snake is not hungry without letting go. (and theirs nothing in humane about feeding live rats to a bp) (but there is about stunning a rat) I'm going to get one hear pretty quick and I think that I'll feed him or her live rats.

Uh dangling a rat by the tail over the side for the snake to strike isn't what I'd consider humane for the rat either. If you have well cared for feeders of the right size, they don't understand the danger and roam the enclosure/groom themselves until the snake strikes. Even when my snakes grab the side if the rat inside as of the head, they're really good at coiling the rat enough so that they don't get bit.

I breed my own feeders now and really enjoy it. I'd never want to go back to F/T. Such a pain to do the zombie dance for the snakes. The snakes eat more consistently on live than they did on F/T too.

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Originally Posted by Porthos the BP

well my teacher (who owns a bp) hangs the live rats by their tail over the tank and then the rat can't hurt the bp and you can see if the snake is not hungry without letting go. (and theirs nothing in humane about feeding live rats to a bp) (but there is about stunning a rat) I'm going to get one hear pretty quick and I think that I'll feed him or her live rats.

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Being knocked out in one blow is much less pain full to a rat/mouse then being bitten, constricted, rib bones cracked, organs punctured and then asphyxiated.

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Originally Posted by Porthos the BP

well my teacher (who owns a bp) hangs the live rats by their tail over the tank and then the rat can't hurt the bp and you can see if the snake is not hungry without letting go.

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Your teacher needs to be schooled on the proper way to feed live prey. The safest live rats to feed are calm live rats. Dangling a live rat by the tail like a marionette is a pretty quick way to piss it off and is just asking for a feeding "accident".

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Originally Posted by DVirginiana

Feeding live isn't a terrible thing at all. The risk of injury is very low if you do it responsibly. Never leave prey alone with your snake for an extended period of time; that's when most of the injuries you hear about occur. I personally stand and watch until the prey is completely dead, waiting with a pair of tongs to put in its mouth if it's in a position where it can bite my BP. I'd personally prefer f/t, but my snake won't have any of that.

:)

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And you think you can get to the rat with a pair of tongs BEFORE the rat can sink his teeth into your BP's eye or whatever part it lunges for ??

I'm find myself bemused when I read the comments directed at anyone who dare suggest giving a snake who's had a bad shed a short soak because you may be putting it through unnecessary stress BUT it seems everyone's quite happy to drop a fine tuned proven killing machine intent on fighting for it's life with razor sharp claws and teeth into a sealed area with nowhere to hide with our precious Royals . These beautiful Royals / BPs aren't exactly kitted out for warfare are they ??

You only have to google and google images to see thousands of snakes bitten by rats ...terrible injuries occur .
It's not as though these occurrences are rare , injuries are quite common.

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Originally Posted by Johnk

Being knocked out in one blow is much less pain full to a rat/mouse then being bitten, constricted, rib bones cracked, organs punctured and then asphyxiated.

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Slow down just a bit there. It's likely that prey actually tends to die more often, and more quickly than expected, from circulatory failure than by asphyxiation. It's been shown that some snakes actually have the ability to sense their prey's heart beat and adjust constriction pressure and duration accordingly. Because constriction is energetically costly to snakes, rarely will they exert enough energy on a prey item to break bones. They're very efficient rodent killers to say the least.

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

And you think you can get to the rat with a pair of tongs BEFORE the rat can sink his teeth into your BP's eye or whatever part it lunges for ??

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Yes, I have done and will continue to do so. Have you actually seen rodents trying to bite the muscle of a constricting BP? It's difficult to pierce the skin when the muscle is tensed.

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

I'm find myself bemused when I read the comments directed at anyone who dare suggest giving a snake who's had a bad shed a short soak because you may be putting it through unnecessary stress BUT it seems everyone's quite happy to drop a fine tuned proven killing machine intent on fighting for it's life with razor sharp claws and teeth into a sealed area with nowhere to hide with our precious Royals . These beautiful Royals / BPs aren't exactly kitted out for warfare are they ??

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First of all, NO ONE in that shed thread had a bad shed! That is why people were trying to tell you that soaking was unnecessary!

To answer your question; yes they are actually kitted out for warfare. They are basically a long tube of muscle much larger than their prey, with astonishing strength, an hide that is difficult to bite through (why do you think they make shoes out of it?) when the muscles are tensed, and well over a hundred teeth.
So yes, they are more than capable of doing what they have evolved to do over millions and millions of years.

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

You only have to google and google images to see thousands of snakes bitten by rats ...terrible injuries occur .
It's not as though these occurrences are rare ,

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You trust google images more than the advice of people who have much more experience with BPs than you? (Not referring to myself here, but the many mods and others that also seem to have no issue with responsible live feeding).

If terrible injuries from a responsible live-feed are so common, I'd actually like to see an example of one from at least a semi-reliable source as I've never come across these hoards of horribly maimed snakes you are referring to.

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

And you think you can get to the rat with a pair of tongs BEFORE the rat can sink his teeth into your BP's eye or whatever part it lunges for ??

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Yes. Yes I can. I can and I do quite frequently.

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I'm find myself bemused when I read the comments directed at anyone who dare suggest giving a snake who's had a bad shed a short soak because you may be putting it through unnecessary stress BUT it seems everyone's quite happy to drop a fine tuned proven killing machine intent on fighting for it's life with razor sharp claws and teeth into a sealed area with nowhere to hide with our precious Royals . These beautiful Royals / BPs aren't exactly kitted out for warfare are they ??

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This is very dramatic. Rats as proven killing machines? Forgive me if I scoff, but rodents and lagomorphs are pure prey species. They have evolved to run away and not be found, not to kill anything that dares catch them (which btw is practically every carnivorous/omnivorous species on the planet), and their claws and teeth are certainly not razor sharp. That being said, snakes are the worlds truest carnivores, and they have been that way for as long as they have existed. They ARE kitted out to kill their prey, much more so than a rat is kitted out to fight it. A proper prey item also has no idea it's in any danger when you drop it in with a snake. Heck, my own feeders always wander right up to sniff my snakes and have no idea what it is up until it's too late. It isn't some crazy deathmatch, it's a simple and controlled process.

Also I will point of that the majority of owners don't see a problem with soaking after a bad shed. Some do, but to each their own I guess.

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You only have to google and google images to see thousands of snakes bitten by rats ...terrible injuries occur .
It's not as though these occurrences are rare , they're pretty coTalking about 'thinking' movies . .. I gave up pretty early on Lincoln even though DDL is one of my fave actors . . my brain was hurting after about 15 minutes but maybe I was in the wrong frame of mind or maybe just too tired ..
I'm going to give it another try one day as I feel as though I'm missing out ...

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I've seen the pictures and heard the stories and I can tell you with certainty that most of those owners do not practice safe feeding techniques. If you drop in a rat, shut the tub or tank up and walk off, you are asking for trouble. If you drop a rat that is known to be aggressive you're asking for trouble. Like I said before, it is a simple and controlled process that should not cause any harm to your snake, nor excessive pain to the rat.

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Originally Posted by Eric Alan

Slow down just a bit there. It's likely that prey actually tends to die more often, and more quickly than expected, from circulatory failure than by asphyxiation. It's been shown that some snakes actually have the ability to sense their prey's heart beat and adjust constriction pressure and duration accordingly. Because constriction is energetically costly to snakes, rarely will they exert enough energy on a prey item to break bones. They're very efficient rodent killers to say the least.

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I wasn't bad mouthing live feeding, I prefer it but you have to watch carefully as the prey can do serious damage. I had a mouse give my banana a good bite over the summer. I was just saying that a good single blow to the dome is quick and about as painless as you can make it. Personally that's the way I'd prefer to go if I was a rodent.

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Originally Posted by Johnk

I wasn't bad mouthing live feeding...

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No - you were simply taking the same approach that Michael Bay would take if he were making the Discovery Channel mockumentary on feeding live prey to snakes. What a great educational message you provided. :)

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Originally Posted by Johnk

I was just saying that a good single blow to the dome is quick and about as painless as you can make it. Personally that's the way I'd prefer to go if I was a rodent.

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Then we agree to disagree. I'll bet on the evolved predator over a hobbiest with questionable experience in dispatching rodents humanely every time.

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

You only have to google and google images to see thousands of snakes bitten by rats ...terrible injuries occur .
It's not as though these occurrences are rare ,.

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Yes they are rare. The reason people like to take pictures of stuff like this is BECAUSE of their rarity. I've fed several thousand live rats to snakes throughout the years and I can think of ONE instance where the snake got bit, you couldn't even tell after a few days. I HAVE seen several badly bitten snakes coming through the reptile rescue that I volunteer with, but that's because of people doing it WRONG. There are a few common sense things to remember when feeding live. If you feed live food you should always supervise the feeding. NEVER simply throw a rat into the cage and walk away. If the snake is hungry, you can tell pretty quickly. If it's not hungry then remove the rat and try again some other time. The larger the rat, the more likely it is to bite so feed appropriately sized prey (no matter how big it is, an adult ball python never has to eat an adult rat)

Also for rat breeders, remember that aggression in rats in inherited. If you have an aggressive rat in your breeding racks, euthanize it and feed it off AND any babies that it has produced. I no longer breed my own rats but I did for many many years. By the time I stopped breeding I could take any rat in my rack and stick my fingers right in it's mouth without worrying about getting bit.

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

And you think you can get to the rat with a pair of tongs BEFORE the rat can sink his teeth into your BP's eye or whatever part it lunges for ??

I'm find myself bemused when I read the comments directed at anyone who dare suggest giving a snake who's had a bad shed a short soak because you may be putting it through unnecessary stress BUT it seems everyone's quite happy to drop a fine tuned proven killing machine intent on fighting for it's life with razor sharp claws and teeth into a sealed area with nowhere to hide with our precious Royals . These beautiful Royals / BPs aren't exactly kitted out for warfare are they ??

You only have to google and google images to see thousands of snakes bitten by rats ...terrible injuries occur .
It's not as though these occurrences are rare , they're pretty coTalking about 'thinking' movies . .. I gave up pretty early on Lincoln even though DDL is one of my fave actors . . my brain was hurting after about 15 minutes but maybe I was in the wrong frame of mind or maybe just too tired ..
I'm going to give it another try one day as I feel as though I'm missing out ...

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What's your experience on feeding live preys to a BP be caused based on this post it is limited or at best uneducated best on your description of live feeding this "killing monster prey"

The right feeder will more often than not fall asleep in the cage of course stressing the prey with stunning or dangling is definitely not how you go about it either.

Those internet pictures all have a back story the one of a careless owner, leaving an oversized rodent rodent with a snake or one unattended for days in the cage and that does not represent responsible live feeding.

I'm for one about educating people about their options and giving then the tool to be able to chose what works for them rather than scaring them with the story of the big boogyman and how dangerous live is......f/t can be dangerous too if not done responsibly.

Now my experience 250 live prey a month over the last 9 years (that's only 27000 preys which is nothing compare to large breeders) out of that never had a single issue. This of course only represent my BP collection it does not include any hatchlings or the other species I have or currently work with.




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Whoever "scolded" you for feeding live is a fool who knows nothing about anything. While feeding live may have it's cons. So does feeding F/T. I have ALWAYS fed live and with exception of one time (100% my fault) I have NEVER had an issue, not even a scratch on any snake. Apart from my own collection, I use to work for someone who kept and bred well over 200 snakes. So that meant that every week, sometimes twice a week, 200 something snakes would be fed and again NEVER had an issue there. It is your duty to supervise the feedings to make sure it all goes smoothly, the negative part of feeding live start to happen when the owner is neglectful of the animal.

So in other words, don't worry about the haters. Feed what you feel works for you and do it correctly. Enjoy!

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Originally Posted by MarkS

Yes they are rare. The reason people like to take pictures of stuff like this is BECAUSE of their rareness. I've fed several thousand live rats to snakes throughout the years and I can think of ONE instance where the snake got bit, you couldn't even tell after a few days. I HAVE seen several baddly bitten snakes coming through the reptile rescue that I volunteer with, but that's because of people doing it WRONG. There are few common sense things to remember when feeding live. If you feed live food you should always supervise the feeding. NEVER simply throw a rat into the cage and walk away. If the snake is hungry, you can tell pretty quickly. If it's not hungry then remove the rat and try again some other time. The larger the rat, the more likely it is to bite so feed appropriately sized prey (no matter how big it is, an adult ball python never has to eat an adult rat)

Also for rat breeders, remember that aggression in rats in inherited. If you have an aggressive rat in your breeding racks, euthanize it and feed it off AND any babies that it has produced. I no longer breed my own rats but I did for many many years. By the time I stopped breeding I could take any rat in my rack and stick my fingers right in it's mouth without worrying about getting bit.

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You're suggesting that you've bred rats so tame age trustworthy that they've not going to fight for their lives !!?? :)

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

You're suggesting that you've bred rats so tame age trustworthy that they've not going to fight for their lives !!?? :)

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Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. They would run and they would hide if scared. They would even squirm like crazy when restrained but they would NOT fight or bite.

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

You're suggesting that you've bred rats so tame age trustworthy that they've not going to fight for their lives !!?? :)

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There is no fighting for their life. Once the snake coils, the rat hardly has any room to move. And in case you didn't know, the more the rat squirms the harder the snake squeezes, thus giving the rat even less room to move. If you are going to nitpick RARE occurrences that have happened, mostly from people who are careless, then we can just as easily bring up RARE negative experiences when feeding F/T. Hell we can even tie in negative things that have happened from feeding dogs kibble and start a whole debate there.

For the record, the only time I have ever seen an "aggressive" feeder, is when it was severely malnourished and more-so, dehydrated. A proper kept and fed feeder, even if not tamed, will be calm.

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Originally Posted by Daigga

Yes. Yes I can. I can and I do quite frequently.



This is very dramatic. Rats as proven killing machines? Forgive me if I scoff, but rodents and lagomorphs are pure prey species. They have evolved to run away and not be found, not to kill anything that dares catch them (which btw is practically every carnivorous/omnivorous species on the planet), and their claws and teeth are certainly not razor sharp. That being said, snakes are the worlds truest carnivores, and they have been that way for as long as they have existed. They ARE kitted out to kill their prey, much more so than a rat is kitted out to fight it. A proper prey item also has no idea it's in any danger when you drop it in with a snake. Heck, my own feeders always wander right up to sniff my snakes and have no idea what it is up until it's too late. It isn't some crazy deathmatch, it's a simple and controlled process.

Also I will point of that the majority of owners don't see a problem with soaking after a bad shed. Some do, but to each their own I guess.



I've seen the pictures and heard the stories and I can tell you with certainty that most of those owners do not practice safe feeding techniques. If you drop in a rat, shut the tub or tank up and walk off, you are asking for trouble. If you drop a rat that is known to be aggressive you're asking for trouble. Like I said before, it is a simple and controlled process that should not cause any harm to your snake, nor excessive pain to the rat.

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I'd argue that you can't compare a trapped and cornered rat with one in the wild where they can attempt to runaway .

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

I'd argue that you can't compare a trapped and cornered rat with one in the wild where they can attempt to runaway .

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And YOU'RE assuming that all 'trapped and cornered' rats react the same way. They don't.

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

I'd argue that you can't compare a trapped and cornered rat with one in the wild where they can attempt to runaway .

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Originally Posted by MarkS

And YOU'RE assuming that all 'trapped and cornered' rats react the same way. They don't.

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...and that the rats feel "trapped and cornered" at all. :no:

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Originally Posted by MarkS

And YOU'RE assuming that all 'trapped and cornered' rats react the same way. They don't.

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I just wouldn't be willing for my precious Royal to take the chance tbh and that's presuming I knew where to buy those kamikaze rats .

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

I'd argue that you can't compare a trapped and cornered rat with one in the wild where they can attempt to runaway .

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How many live rats have YOU fed and ho many incident have you had?

Is YOUR opinion based on experience and personal knowledge or is your opinion mainly a cultural thing knowing that a majority of European keepers look down and discourage live feeding even though it is not based on experience?

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

I just wouldn't be willing for my precious Royal to take the chance tbh and that's presuming I knew where to buy those kamikaze rats .

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"The truth does not change with our ability to stomach it." - Flannery O'Connor

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Originally Posted by Deborah

How many live rats have YOU fed and ho many incident have you had?

Is YOUR opinion based on experience and personal knowledge or is your opinion mainly a cultural thing knowing that a majority of European keepers look down and discourage live feeding even though it is not based on experience?

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That said , I've not been to the sun either but ok pretty certain that its blinkin hot !

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

That said , I've not been to the sun either but ok pretty certain that its blinkin hot !

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Well, since NOBODY has been to the sun that's a pretty safe thing to say. However in THIS discussion, you've had several people who gave their own opinions according to their own experiences.

Nobody here is saying 'you must feed live' Heck I prefer feeding frozen/thawed myself. I just find it easier. What we ARE saying is that if you WANT to feed live, according to OUR experience, it's really not that dangerous.

I guess the rat below didn't get the email .

http://www.herpcenter.com/reptile-ar...s-ball-python/

We may as well drop this now.
Maybe it's a cultural thing as mentioned above .
I still find it odd that I'm causing stress by giving my Royals the occasional soak ( after a bed shed or to rehydrate ) and yet it's supposedly fine and dandy to drop an adult rat into an enclosed space with my soft little Royal :)

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

That said , I've not been to the sun either but ok pretty certain that its blinkin hot !

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Typical :rolleyes: Comparing apple to oranges when lacking the ability to argue an opinion based on ZERO experience.

Again it is about educating people about options and proper ways to feed not scaring them with the boogieman, you may benefit from being educated yourself instead of making blanket statements.

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

I guess the rat below didn't get the email .

http://www.herpcenter.com/reptile-ar...s-ball-python/

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Please read the first sentence of your own link; "When an owner left a live rat in with a ball python FOR THE NIGHT"
That isn't the result of an accidental scratch or bite. That is the result of someone being irresponsible.

Is it safe to take children swimming? Yes. Is it safe to toss a kid into the ocean without water-wings? No. You're comparing two totally different situations as if they're the same thing when you compare live feeding to locking a rodent in with a BP overnight.

If my BP doesn't show interest in prey within about a minute of being introduced, the prey comes out and we try again later. Those bites come from a long time alone with a rat, not a typical 2-minute feeding.

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Originally Posted by MarkS

Well, since NOBODY has been to the sun that's a pretty safe thing to say. However in THIS discussion, you've had several people who gave their own opinions according to their own experiences.

Nobody here is saying 'you must feed live' Heck I prefer feeding frozen/thawed myself. I just find it easier. What we ARE saying is that if you WANT to feed live, according to OUR experience, it's really not that dangerous.

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Then again ' really not that dangerous ' can equate to " maybe a little risky "

Why take a chance with a snake that could be worth hundreds of dollars !?

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

I guess the rat below didn't get the email .

http://www.herpcenter.com/reptile-ar...s-ball-python/

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left a live rat in with the ball python for the night.

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This is again NOT representative of RESPONSIBLE live feeding.............nice try :rolleyes:

Key word RESPONSIBLE

That link also recommended stunning rodents before feeding...

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

Then again ' really not that dangerous ' can equate to " maybe a little risky "

Why take a chance with a snake that could be worth hundreds of dollars !?

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Virtually everything in life is 'maybe a little risky' How you wish to handle that risk no matter how slight or insignificant is up to you.

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Originally Posted by DVirginiana

That link also recommended stunning rodents before feeding...

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As Deborah mentioned before, 'stunning' a rodent is cruel and inhumane. Killing a rodent by bashing it over the head is one thing. Lightly bashing a rodent over the head with the intension of leaving it alive and capable of stumbling about with brain damage but incapable of fighting back is in my opinion just plain wrong.

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

everyone's quite happy to drop a fine tuned proven killing machine intent on fighting for it's life with razor sharp claws and teeth into a sealed area with nowhere to hide with our precious Royals . These beautiful Royals / BPs aren't exactly kitted out for warfare are they ??

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LOL What?

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Originally Posted by MarkS

As Deborah mentioned before, 'stunning' a rodent is cruel and inhumane. Killing a rodent by bashing it over the head is one thing. Lightly bashing a rodent over the head with the intension of leaving it alive and capable of stumbling about with brain damage but incapable of fighting back is in my opinion just plain wrong.

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Absolutely agreed. I was using that as an example that whoever wrote that article, in addition to being kind of sensationalist, doesn't know much about live feeding.

This is a ridiculous and overly dramatic argument.

Bottom line; Live feeding is safe if done correctly, period. Don't want to do it? It's your snake and ultimately your decision and no one will be forcing you to.

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

I'd argue that you can't compare a trapped and cornered rat with one in the wild where they can attempt to runaway .

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

I just wouldn't be willing for my precious Royal to take the chance tbh and that's presuming I knew where to buy those kamikaze rats .

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

We may as well drop this now.
Maybe it's a cultural thing as mentioned above .
I still find it odd that I'm causing stress by giving my Royals the occasional soak ( after a bed shed or to rehydrate ) and yet it's supposedly fine and dandy to drop an adult rat into an enclosed space with my soft little Royal :)

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

Then again ' really not that dangerous ' can equate to " maybe a little risky "
Why take a chance with a snake that could be worth hundreds of dollars !?

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Where to start??
Again, what is YOUR history of feeding? I started and tried the frozen thing. It was okay up until we got our fifth ball python. Now at over fifty no way, no how, no time. For me feeding live is so much easier, takes less time and is more efficient. Snakes eat more often and no rats go in the trash.
If the rat doesn't get eaten then it goes back into the rat rack it came out of. No waste at all.
Fed and taken care of rodents almost never cause a problem. Yes things could happen but that is also part of being a responsible breeder/owner.
If all you have is google to fall back on then you have hit the end of this chain and you are done trying to prove a point you don't have experience with.
Last time I checked balls have been eating live a lot longer than we all together combined have been keeping them.
Never had a bite in several thousands of feedings, toenail scratches are a different thing.

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Originally Posted by DVirginiana

Absolutely agreed. I was using that as an example that whoever wrote that article, in addition to being kind of sensationalist, doesn't know much about live feeding.

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Too many people want to base everything they know on stuff they read on the web.
Just because it works in my house doesn't mean it will work in yours BUT I wont push my ways on anyone and expect the same in return.

Incidentally , that last quote of mine wasn't mine - for what it's worth .

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

Incidentally , that last quote of mine wasn't mine - for what it's worth .

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No one said it was. ;)