AP Cages?

Hi all! I'm new to this forum but I wanted to ask for some advice about cages.

So i currently own one male ball python, a bearded dragon, and 2 geckos, and I've been looking to upgrade the beardies cage and my Ball pythons cage.
I then found Animal Plastics and have been looking at them for quite a long while, a couple of my friends have said they're alright, worth the wait, etc. But I wanted to get some opinions from you guys and I have a few questions:

1) I wanted to get two T8 cages, would that be alright for my male ball python? He's an adult.

2) I've heard that the cages trap in smell, Is this true?

3) What type of stand do you have yours on? I have 2 dogs so I want it to be higher up so they can't mess with the reptiles.

4) Are they worth the money? I plan on getting a few of the extras and I wanna make sure it's worth the 500 dollars I'm going to be shelling out.

thanks for the advice!!

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Originally Posted by Maddithehuman

Hi all! I'm new to this forum but I wanted to ask for some advice about cages.

So i currently own one male ball python, a bearded dragon, and 2 geckos, and I've been looking to upgrade the beardies cage and my Ball pythons cage.
I then found Animal Plastics and have been looking at them for quite a long while, a couple of my friends have said they're alright, worth the wait, etc. But I wanted to get some opinions from you guys and I have a few questions:

1) I wanted to get two T8 cages, would that be alright for my male ball python? He's an adult.
Yes, in fact you can actually put a divider inside the tank and comfortably house two adults.

2) I've heard that the cages trap in smell, Is this true?
A lot of people will say no, but the truth is yes. These are cages made specifically to keep in humidity and heat well and in turn that will also keep in odors.

3) What type of stand do you have yours on? I have 2 dogs so I want it to be higher up so they can't mess with the reptiles.
I have mine on an 80$ stand from walmart. It is basically the exact size as the cages.
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Mainstays-...to-55/20666560


4) Are they worth the money? I plan on getting a few of the extras and I wanna make sure it's worth the 500 dollars I'm going to be shelling out.
For ball pythons specifically?! H-E-L-* Yes! The temperature and humidity is extremely easy to maintain and as long as you keep up with cleaning water bowels and substrate they are perfect! My balls have been noticeably happier since I move them into these cages from glass vivs.

Here is a picture of my T8s.

http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/...ps3d8b7129.jpg

thanks for the advice!!

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My opinion is the T8 isn't tall enough for a beardie because they like to climb, I personally would look at something in the 2ft tall range, but for a BP it would be perfect.

Awesome! I plan on going to a convention pretty soon here so I'll probably get a female ball python and use a divider!

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my beardie is extremely lazy, she enjoys running around rather than climbing haha

I'd never say don't go AP. I think they are beautiful cages, and like some of the options they provide.

But,,,,,,, just to make things a little more interesting, I highly recommend Pro-Line cages from Constrictors NW.

I personally think the plastic used is the highest quality plastic in the business and they look pretty cool to boot.

http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/y...a/DSC01373.jpg

But I'd also happily take an AP cage here.

Depending on the species you plan to keep, height is a very important factor. I'm somewhat miffed that Boaphile cages don't really accommodate arboreal or semi arboreal species at an affordable price like AP or Pro-Line.

I personally like a little head room. Even our Royal moves up to the higher parts of her cage and she is the most terrestrial snake we have.

I just keep ball pythons, I definitely don't think the parents would allow any snakes I would want besides those haha. I like sliding glass doors rather than pull out doors, though. They look cool though!

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Originally Posted by Maddithehuman

I just keep ball pythons, I definitely don't think the parents would allow any snakes I would want besides those haha. I like sliding glass doors rather than pull out doors, though. They look cool though!

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Yep,

Then go AP and get a T-8 for your royal.

Having a low overhead for a beardie or any lizard that requires overhead heat and UV makes it difficult to properly meet their requirements. When the cage is so low your basking spot is more concentrated, which means that it gets hotter in a smaller point, so one its hard to provide a basking spot to cover he length of the lizard and if the heat is more concentrated it has the potential to burn them. Bearded Dragons will climb if they are provided with proper branches, ledges, rocks, and space.

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Originally Posted by jclaiborne

Having a low overhead for a beardie or any lizard that requires overhead heat and UV makes it difficult to properly meet their requirements. When the cage is so low your basking spot is more concentrated, which means that it gets hotter in a smaller point, so one its hard to provide a basking spot to cover he length of the lizard and if the heat is more concentrated it has the potential to burn them. Bearded Dragons will climb if they are provided with proper branches, ledges, rocks, and space.

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My bad, I was thinking this was for a royal somehow.

I always like a bit of height. That said, there are AP cages that provide this so as JC said, go for some headroom.

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Originally Posted by Gio

My bad, I was thinking this was for a royal somehow.

I always like a bit of height. That said, there are AP cages that provide this so as JC said, go for some headroom.

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They wanted one for a BP as well as I beardie. Their justification for low headroom for a beardie is that its "lazy". Generally lizards appear "lazy" if husbandry or suppliments are off.

She is on proper husbandry, I've had her for 2 years and never had an issue with her not being able to get proper lighting. She's not really lazy, she just doesn't move around a whole lot when she's in her cage because she doesn't have room in the vision cage I have her in now, which is why i wanted to upgrade her to AP cages ad well as my ball python.

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Originally Posted by Gio

My bad, I was thinking this was for a royal somehow.

I always like a bit of height. That said, there are AP cages that provide this so as JC said, go for some headroom.

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I probably will get her a higher cage because thinking about it, she can almost reach her bulbs in her current cage and i dont want my baby to get hurt haha, which model would you recommend for a beardie?

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Originally Posted by Maddithehuman

I probably will get her a higher cage because thinking about it, she can almost reach her bulbs in her current cage and i dont want my baby to get hurt haha, which model would you recommend for a beardie?

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I keep my beardie, and blueys for that matter in a 4x2x2 with internal lighting (no domes) with 6 inches of dirt/sand mixture so they can burrow, working on a bio-active substrate setup.

Zelda(my beardie) is on carpet mats, and (I like to believe shes potty trained) she poops in her water dish every time so its super easy to clean up haha

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Originally Posted by Maddithehuman

Zelda(my beardie) is on carpet mats, and (I like to believe shes potty trained) she poops in her water dish every time so its super easy to clean up haha

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I am not trying to get in a debate here, but in the above post you stated you have had her for 2 years and your husbandry is correct. Carpet Mats are not a demonstartion of correct husbandry...They hold bacteria, do not provide the ability for your animal to dig/burrow, etc.

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Originally Posted by jclaiborne

I am not trying to get in a debate here, but in the above post you stated you have had her for 2 years and your husbandry is correct. Carpet Mats are not a demonstartion of correct husbandry...They hold bacteria, do not provide the ability for your animal to dig/burrow, etc.

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There's really nothing wrong with keeping her beardie on what she's using, people keep them on paper towel and what-not, so I think she's good.:P

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Originally Posted by Fraido

There's really nothing wrong with keeping her beardie on what she's using, people keep them on paper towel and what-not, so I think she's good.:P

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Soo doing the bare minimum is proper husbandry, this is the thought process that drives me insane with the reptile community? Going by your theory, just because other people provide sub-par care its ok. The same could be said for any animal then. People keep dogs chained to a tree with 5 ft of chain all day long and the dog lives, everyone else does it, so its ok? Most people would view that at animal neglect/abuse. But because its a reptile its ok? Rediculous. Look at the natural habitat for these animals, they are not BPs that spend 90 percent of their life in a dark burrow. Beardies (and most lizards in general other than maybe some geckos) move, they dig, the climb, they interact with their environment, when you eliminate their ability to do that they become lethargic or "lazy".

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Originally Posted by jclaiborne

Soo doing the bare minimum is proper husbandry, this is the thought process that drives me insane with the reptile community? Going by your theory, just because other people provide sub-par care its ok. The same could be said for any animal then. People keep dogs chained to a tree with 5 ft of chain all day long and the dog lives, everyone else does it, so its ok? Most people would view that at animal neglect/abuse. But because its a reptile its ok? Rediculous. Look at the natural habitat for these animals, they are not BPs that spend 90 percent of their life in a dark burrow. Beardies (and most lizards in general other than maybe some geckos) move, they dig, the climb, they interact with their environment, when you eliminate their ability to do that they become lethargic or "lazy".

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The ranting, honestly, is not necessary, I am simply saying that OP's setup is fine, her beardie is clearly thriving, so she doesn't need to change anything.
Besides, I don't like using things like newspaper and papertowel in my reptiles' enclosures, I like making it look cool and feel more natural. But not everybody needs to have huge, amazing, natural enclosures for their reptiles. If someone chooses papertowel, or anything "sub par", it's not the end of the world, and it is certainly not neglect or abuse.

I'm sure the OP is taking good care of her reptiles.

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Originally Posted by Fraido

The ranting, honestly, is not necessary, I am simply saying that OP's setup is fine, her beardie is clearly thriving, so she doesn't need to change anything.
Besides, I don't like using things like newspaper and papertowel in my reptiles' enclosures, I like making it look cool and feel more natural. But not everybody needs to have huge, amazing, natural enclosures for their reptiles. If someone chooses papertowel, or anything "sub par", it's not the end of the world, and it is certainly not neglect or abuse.

I'm sure the OP is taking good care of her reptiles.

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It's not a rant, this is constantly a topic of debate, and I have the ability to express my opinon/concent for improper husbandry, just like you have the right to say bare minimum is fine. Would you provide a "sub-par" environent for any animal other than a repitle? It's a simple question. Lets take it to an extreme here, just for fun, if you saw a picture dog breeding facility where there were wall to wall kennels with dogs shoved in them, paper towels on the floor, and no room to move, would that be acceptable or a puppy mill? So please explain why is it ok for people to justify cutting corners on the care of animals that have a life span of 20 years if cared for properly, especially when you said yourself you provide a natural setup for your animals.

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Originally Posted by jclaiborne

It's not a rant, this is constantly a topic of debate, and I have the ability to express my opinon/concent for improper husbandry, just like you have the right to say bare minimum is fine. Would you provide a "sub-par" environent for any animal other than a repitle? It's a simple question. Lets take it to an extreme here, just for fun, if you saw a picture dog breeding facility where there were wall to wall kennels with dogs shoved in them, paper towels on the floor, and no room to move, would that be acceptable or a puppy mill? So please explain why is it ok for people to justify cutting corners on the care of animals that have a life span of 20 years if cared for properly, especially when you said yourself you provide a natural setup for your animals.

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This is not the place for this conversation, so, sucks that we have different opinions. I am not going to argue/discuss this with you, I am moving on. I simply stated my opinion so it doesn't need to become some heated discussion, like you said, I am allowed to state my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Fraido

This is not the place for this conversation, so, sucks that we have different opinions. I am not going to argue/discuss this with you, I am moving on. I simply stated my opinion so it doesn't need to become some heated discussion, like you said, I am allowed to state my opinion.

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A post where the OP is asking opinions on caging for an animal would in fact fall under husbandry, but at the end of the day I can't force anyone to change their method of care, I am just trying to provide information that will hopefully guide people to make better decisions.

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Originally Posted by jclaiborne

A post where the OP is asking opinions on caging for an animal would in fact fall under husbandry, but at the end of the day I can't force anyone to change their method of care, I am just trying to provide information that will hopefully guide people to make better decisions.

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Agree to disagree?

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Originally Posted by Fraido

Agree to disagree?

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as far as it not being the correct place sure

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Originally Posted by jclaiborne

as far as it not being the correct place sure

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I was referring to what was said prior to that. But, oh well.

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Originally Posted by Fraido

I was referring to what was said prior to that. But, oh well.

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I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be a jerk, however I take animal care of any kind seriously and I don't waiver on my belief that proper care is vital to the health of the animal, and its far too often that I see posts staying "how small of a cage", "whats the bare minimum" etc. In this the OP asked about cages, so I voiced my opinion. Generally the cost of a proper setup far outweighs the cost of the animal.

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Originally Posted by jclaiborne

I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be a jerk, however I take animal care of any kind seriously and I don't waiver on my belief that proper care is vital to the health of the animal, and its far too often that I see posts staying "how small of a cage", "whats the bare minimum" etc. In this the OP asked about cages, so I voiced my opinion. Generally the cost of a proper setup far outweighs the cost of the animal.

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I understand that, and I don't like it when animals aren't cared for properly. But of all things, I don't feel as though whether or not somebody uses papertowel, or other things like it, over aspen bedding or plantation soil is going to be the deciding factor as to whether or not the reptile is being cared for properly.

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Originally Posted by Fraido

I understand that, and I don't like it when animals aren't cared for properly. But of all things, I don't feel as though whether or not somebody uses papertowel, or other things like it, over aspen bedding or plantation soil is going to be the deciding factor as to whether or not the reptile is being cared for properly.

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This is where I will agree to disagree. I can't say for snakes, because it really doesn't seem to matter (although i keep mine in a deep dirt substrate) but for lizards, (more so monitors and tegus) but I believe for all lizards, have a substrait that can safely retain moisture (even very little in the case of a beardie) without becomming satuarated, providing them the ability to burrow and have a moist hide DOES in fact prevent things such a gout and dehydration. Which can slowly over YEARS kill a lizard.

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Originally Posted by jclaiborne

This is where I will agree to disagree. I can't say for snakes, because it really doesn't seem to matter (although i keep mine in a deep dirt substrate) but for lizards, (more so monitors and tegus) but I believe for all lizards, have a substrait that can safely retain moisture (even very little in the case of a beardie) without becomming satuarated, providing them the ability to burrow and have a moist hide DOES in fact prevent things such a gout and dehydration. Which can slowly over YEARS kill a lizard.

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I don't own lizards, and most bearded dragons I've seen have just been on paper towel (or something similar). Even Brian from Snakebytes uses something like that for his beardies, I'm pretty sure. I figure you could simply just have a legitimate moist hide for them, like leopard geckos.

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Originally Posted by Fraido

I don't own lizards, and most bearded dragons I've seen have just been on paper towel (or something similar). Even Brian from Snakebytes uses something like that for his beardies, I'm pretty sure. I figure you could simply just have a legitimate moist hide for them, like leopard geckos.

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In my opinion (I will probably get flamed for this) Brian's care for lizards is off, he has recently started lizards and while im sure his INTENTIONS are good his husbandry isn't there, to be honest he just got into blueys and I'm almost afraid to see his housing for them. I don't agree with lizards being in racks like he has his dragons. Here are two extremes, I am not saying a beardie needs an enclosure this big, (but how awesome would it be) But compare how this breeder houses his dragons to Brian's: http://atomiclizardranch.net/bearded-dragon-breeders/ If you are interested here is some reading, one of the links is about Monitors, however he does a good job of explaining gout and the though process behind why the correct substrate is essential. If my "ranting" even can change one person's outlook than I am happy.


http://www.merckmanuals.com/vet/exot..._reptiles.html
http://www.anapsid.org/kidney.html
http://www.anapsid.org/diverskidney.html
http://www.varanustalk.com/forum/iframer4.php?page=gout

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Originally Posted by jclaiborne

In my opinion (I will probably get flamed for this) Brian's care for lizards is off, he has recently started lizards and while im sure his INTENTIONS are good his husbandry isn't there, to be honest he just got into blueys and I'm almost afraid to see his housing for them. I don't agree with lizards being in racks like he has his dragons. Here are two extremes, I am not saying a beardie needs an enclosure this big, (but how awesome would it be) But compare how this breeder houses his dragons to Brian's: http://atomiclizardranch.net/bearded-dragon-breeders/ If you are interested here is some reading, one of the links is about Monitors, however he does a good job of explaining gout and the though process behind why the correct substrate is essential. If my "ranting" even can change one person's outlook than I am happy.


http://www.merckmanuals.com/vet/exot..._reptiles.html
http://www.anapsid.org/kidney.html
http://www.anapsid.org/diverskidney.html
http://www.varanustalk.com/forum/iframer4.php?page=gout

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I'm not a big believer in rack systems in general, I like tanks, nice ones. But I don't see the major issue with keeping lizards in racks, if they're a good sized rack, then I think it's fine. I recall a show of Brian's about the leopard gecko breeder, and all of his are in racks, aren't they?
Anyway, I don't know, everybody has their own opinion as to how things should be done.

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Originally Posted by Fraido

I'm not a big believer in rack systems in general, I like tanks, nice ones. But I don't see the major issue with keeping lizards in racks, if they're a good sized rack, then I think it's fine. I recall a show of Brian's about the leopard gecko breeder, and all of his are in racks, aren't they?
Anyway, I don't know, everybody has their own opinion as to how things should be done.

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If you get a chance read through those links and let me know if your opinion changes. (leopard geckos, i really don't want to speak on because while I disagree with racks, they may be ok because due to their small size, but I really dont know.)

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Originally Posted by jclaiborne

If you get a chance read through those links and let me know if your opinion changes. (leopard geckos, i really don't want to speak on because while I disagree with racks, they may be ok because due to their small size, but I really dont know.)

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I get why you think it's essential, and yeah it's a good thing to do, a great way to provent some bad things, but I still think that sub-par substrate can be used quite successfully.

:ohmygod:

Guys let's not argue!I posted here about caging, everyone has different opinions on how to keep their animals, as long as they are healthy and get the love and care they deserve, it's no biggy imo. Zelda gets tons of time out of her cage and has tons of opportunities to dig and do normal lizardy-esque things, I have a tub of the mix JC has stated and I let her play around in it from time to time, though she really doesn't care for it too much. I clean the carpets DAILY with cleaner and soak them in the tub to assure they are clean so she won't get sick, and she has never had an issue, my exotic vet has also said it works for her just fine. Animals are definitely something not to skimp out on when referring to prices and such, I totally get that. She was a rescue from someone who had no clue what she was doing and had 500 dollars of work done on her already because of her improper care as a baby. She has 3 cysts removed and was on meds for 10 days, so clearly shes important to me! When I upgrade her cage to the AP cages I've been considering slate type tile, something with a bit of grit to it so she doesn't slide all over the place.