Deforming in the mouth?

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14...4b8b58f60e.jpg
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14...550398ac63.jpg
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14...92cc40e851.jpg

It seems like all the babies have this so far. I don't know what it is


Sent from iPhone 5 using tapatalk :)

It's hard to tell anything from the pics, do they have a severe over-bite?

Yea


Sent from iPhone 5 using tapatalk :)

With the shorter lower jaw it may be a challenge for them to eat on their own, all you can do at this point is wait and see.

In the 6 years I have been breeding I had 2 animals like this neither one ever ate on their own.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deborah

With the shorter lower jaw it may be a challenge for them to eat on their own, all you can do at this point is wait and see.

In the 6 years I have been breeding I had 2 animals like this neither one ever ate on their own.

---

The whole clutch seems to look like this


Sent from iPhone 5 using tapatalk :)

Did you have any temps issues in your incubator?

Did you pair those two together or to other animals in the past?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deborah

Did you have any temps issues in your incubator?

Did you pair those two together or to other animals in the past?

---

All the other eggs are hatching fine. Even the one on the same lay day. The babies from that clutch is doing well. This is the first time for this pair. And a first time for albino female and yellowbelly male het to go.


Sent from iPhone 5 using tapatalk :)

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14...3215ba45dc.jpg

The albino died when I came home


Sent from iPhone 5 using tapatalk :)

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14...36700354f2.jpg
This is another baby


Sent from iPhone 5 using tapatalk :)

We have another clutch due Friday from the same dad. The female that laid them had healthy babies last year. The incubation temps are steady and all the other clutches so far have been ok.

Hopefully they will be ok

I am afraid I don't have anything to add other then to say I'm sorry to hear about this and hope it is just isolated to this clutch for you.

Somebody was just posting about hatching eyeless/small-eyed babies from an albino x candino pairing and I believe a few had this overbite deformity as well.
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...and-small-eyes
Most people disagreed that it could be connected to the albino gene but I have seen many instances of eye deformities (and now I'm seeing overbite) in albino and het albino animals, so it COULD be related to the gene.
Perhaps those two animals are too closely related, as this can cause an increase in deformities or diseases. You might want to avoid repeating the pairing next year because of the potential for more deformities, but it could also be good to repeat and see if it was a fluke. It's all about the risk you're willing to take.
Hopefully the babies will manage to eat well :/
Good luck and sorry for the unfortunate occurrence ):

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RellesReptiles

Somebody was just posting about hatching eyeless/small-eyed babies from an albino x candino pairing and I believe a few had this overbite deformity as well.
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...and-small-eyes
Most people disagreed that it could be connected to the albino gene but I have seen many instances of eye deformities (and now I'm seeing overbite) in albino and het albino animals, so it COULD be related to the gene.
Perhaps those two animals are too closely related, as this can cause an increase in deformities or diseases. You might want to avoid repeating the pairing next year because of the potential for more deformities, but it could also be good to repeat and see if it was a fluke. It's all about the risk you're willing to take.
Hopefully the babies will manage to eat well :/
Good luck and sorry for the unfortunate occurrence ):

---

We have another clutch in the incubator that is with the same dad, but different female. Both of them have the albino gene. But I don't have a bad feeling about that clutch

I honestly have no idea how a baby is supposed to eat with no under jaw. Two of the ones that are out have no under jaw. One kinda does. This is challenging enough already. Especially for only being our second
Time breeding. I don't know what to do

Sent from iPhone 5 using tapatalk :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Solarsoldier001

I honestly have no idea how a baby is supposed to eat with no under jaw. Two of the ones that are out have no under jaw. One kinda does. This is challenging enough already. Especially for only being our second Time breeding. I don't know what to do

---

I'm so very sorry. If they can't eat then they will have to be culled. Letting them starve to death is not an option.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bcr229

I'm so very sorry. If they can't eat then they will have to be culled. Letting them starve to death is not an option.

---

I am well aware that i have to prepare myself for that


Sent from iPhone 5 using tapatalk :)

Sorry for the misunderstanding, I took your "I don't know what to do" statement to mean about the babies.

If it means you're looking for advice on future pairings... I would make a decision based on the other clutch that the albino sired. If those babies are ok, retire the mom of the deformed clutch, or at least don't pair her with that sire again. If the other albino clutch also has problems, retire the dad from breeding. Your non-albino clutches have hatched out just fine, so I don't see your incubator being the problem.

I had the clutch from Candino male to Albino girl where the babies came out just like this. My male has bred to 4 girls and where I do still have 2 clutches in the incubator, I did have 1 clutch hatch out and had 6 or 7 great babies, no issues what so ever, so I am pretty sure it isn't the male, but it was the first clutch of the Albino girl. I also did not have any big temperature swings or anything like that. I am unsure at the moment if I will do the same pairing next year or not to see if it was a fluke or possibly the female or just this specific pairing.

Total Bummer....I would tend to think this is more due to genetics of the parents than temp spikes. I guess either one could be the culprit only way to know is to keep good records and see what happens next time these two are bred.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bcr229

Sorry for the misunderstanding, I took your "I don't know what to do" statement to mean about the babies.

If it means you're looking for advice on future pairings... I would make a decision based on the other clutch that the albino sired. If those babies are ok, retire the mom of the deformed clutch, or at least don't pair her with that sire again. If the other albino clutch also has problems, retire the dad from breeding. Your non-albino clutches have hatched out just fine, so I don't see your incubator being the problem.

---

How long do you wait as far as the babies? Me and my boyfriend are talking about it all the time. I told him to wait till the others come out to do it all together , because we don't know when is the right time. or should we just do it now with the ones that are out already? I just don't know which way is right. I don't think they are suffering from hunger at this moment. They did absorb the yolk. So that's what I mean as a far as I don't know. We are having an issue of "when is the right time"?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by joebad976

Total Bummer....I would tend to think this is more due to genetics of the parents than temp spikes. I guess either one could be the culprit only way to know is to keep good records and see what happens next time these two are bred.

---

I know I'm an emotional person. I cry over so much. This clutch had a rotten egg in the beginning. And I cried over that. Now all these babies. All seven are deformed. It pains me to have any of them suffer. It's so stressful. For such little babies to enter the world in such an awful way.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MikeM75

I had the clutch from Candino male to Albino girl where the babies came out just like this. My male has bred to 4 girls and where I do still have 2 clutches in the incubator, I did have 1 clutch hatch out and had 6 or 7 great babies, no issues what so ever, so I am pretty sure it isn't the male, but it was the first clutch of the Albino girl. I also did not have any big temperature swings or anything like that. I am unsure at the moment if I will do the same pairing next year or not to see if it was a fluke or possibly the female or just this specific pairing.

---

I'm hoping the issue is with the pairing. The mother is a first time mom. I don't want to repeat this pairing again.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Solarsoldier001

How long do you wait as far as the babies? Me and my boyfriend are talking about it all the time. I told him to wait till the others come out to do it all together , because we don't know when is the right time. or should we just do it now with the ones that are out already? I just don't know which way is right. I don't think they are suffering from hunger at this moment. They did absorb the yolk. So that's what I mean as a far as I don't know. We are having an issue of "when is the right time"?

---

Normally a hatchling wouldn't eat until a week or so after the first shed anyway. Honestly I'm the type that would give them all a fighting chance just to make sure I'm making the right decision: if it eats, then great - that snake will go to a pet home. If they can't eat I would euthanize it and cry afterward. Some of them, like the albino that already died, may make the decision for you.

So sorry ):
I really hope it's just a coincidence this time or connected to the pairing so that she can still be a good mom in the future.
Poor babies :/
MikeM75 I mentioned you earlier (posted a link to your thread), just in case it helped them out any.

Quote:

---

I honestly have no idea how a baby is supposed to eat with no under jaw. Two of the ones that are out have no under jaw. One kinda does. This is challenging enough already. Especially for only being our second
Time breeding. I don't know what to do

---

Sadly depending on how short the lower jaw is the only humane thing to do will be to euthanize them, it's not easy however if the animal cannot eat on it's own and has to be assisted their is no quality of life.

It is hard even when you have been breeding for a while making this type of decision is not easy but one that is necessary, this is the part of breeding that is not fun but that we all face.

Hopefully the other clutch will be perfect.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deborah

Sadly depending on how short the lower jaw is the only humane thing to do will be to euthanize them, it's not easy however if the animal cannot eat on it's own and has to be assisted their is no quality of life.

It is hard even when you have been breeding for a while making this type of decision is not easy but one that is necessary, this is the part of breeding that is not fun but that we all face.

Hopefully the other clutch will be perfect.

---

They are severely short I can not imagine them eating on their own. I can't imagine having to euthanize but I'll have to man up and do what's best for them.


Graphic pic of albino below before it passed showing jaw.

















http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14...64dd0f6ecf.jpg

That's incredibly sad. I hope I don't seem insensitive or anything, but it kind of makes them look like little sharks, and that's kind of cute..:s But, I am sorry about all this, feel better!:(

Im so sorry thst this has happened.

Sent from my SGH-T999

We cut all the eggs from the other clutch. We got 4 albinos and 3 normal looking animals. We could see two of the normals faces. And from what we can tell they look normal. Hopefully they all are fine. We'll update as we see


Sent from iPhone 5 using tapatalk :)

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14...3d0e7132b7.jpg
The other clutch has one head out and looks pretty good


Sent from iPhone 5 using tapatalk :)

Good luck. I am so sorry about the other clutch. I would be devastated in that situation. That's one of the many things that I'm trying to prepare for just in case.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by alan12013

Good luck. I am so sorry about the other clutch. I would be devastated in that situation. That's one of the many things that I'm trying to prepare for just in case.

---

It is extremely upsetting but we are going to have to go on and try to do what we have to do. Looks like one of the babies might be able to eat on its own.


Sent from iPhone 5 using tapatalk :)

Update: sadly none were able to be saved. We had to euthanize them :(. Hardest thing I ever seen my boyfriend do. I hope to god something like this never happens again.


Sent from iPhone 5 using tapatalk :)

I'm sorry to hear that. :(

But I do believe you did the right thing by the animals themselves given the seriousness of the condition. :grouphug: