No eyes, one eye, and small eyes

I have a Candino male X Albino female clutch that just hatched and today when a few have come out of their eggs I saw their eyes, or lack of, in three so far.

Is this a genetic thing or a freak thing?

It is the female's first eggs, she laid 6. All 6 were good eggs, good veins when I candled them initially. I check up on them a time or two during incubation to make sure no eggs have gone bad about mid term and then about a week before they are due (to take the press and seal off the tub). 1 egg went bad and had a 3/4 developed snake, the other 5 eggs went full term and look great. The snakes look very healthy, right now they are absorbing their yolks and just hanging out. I will get a few pictures in the next couple days when they come out of their eggs but this strikes me as very odd.

I don't believe it is the incubator (Hot Box Incubator) as I have hatched out 8 other clutches and all were healthy and very fat. I keep the temperature at 90 degrees, and it stays there, I have a digital thermometer inside the incubator and the incubator itself runs on a VE-200 so I don't believe temperatures are an issue. Humidity is 100% or very close to it, the eggs are always very plump, I have never had any dimple on me, as a matter of fact, when I have cut eggs the albumin (hopefully I spelled that right) gushes out so much that we have to hold a towel up in the direction of the first puncture or it shoots out.

Please let me know what you think, I have no idea.

I would call it a genetic issue, especially since the other clutches you've hatched out are fine. I wouldn't pair those two again, and sell the babies from that clutch as pet-quality not potential breeders.

I think there IS a history of eye-related mutations in albinos. I know of two eyeless BP's associated (a lav albino and a het albino), and have heard of many more.
You might want to avoid repeating that pairing, but the good news is that they'll still be happy healthy functioning animals since they don't really NEED their eyes to be able to eat!

I have bred Albino x Albino many times with no issues.
Small/no eyes can happen with any morph, not just with Albinos.

It is either just a fluke or something with incubation.


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I on the other hand would pair the two again next season AND pair the male with a different albino. You will be able to prove if it is genetic and who is the culprit then.

Could you post pictures? Lol I'm curious to see what they look like

I looked at them today and so far 1 is still in the egg, it looks like only one of them has no deformities... the rest all have where the lower jaw doesn't extend out to end of their upper jaw.

This is horrible...

I would avoid pairing those two snakes again, if it is genetic, chances are they have some negative recessive traits that unluckily paired up and caused it. I've seen it with other morphs, snakes produce completely normal babies, but pair the wrong two up and disaster.

I too would have to say its a genetic thing. I would have to say it might be something genetic that both the mom and dad have, I just wouldn't par those two anymore

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikeM75

I looked at them today and so far 1 is still in the egg, it looks like only one of them has no deformities... the rest all have where the lower jaw doesn't extend out to end of their upper jaw.

This is horrible...

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So sorry :/
If it's any consolation they should still thrive.

I have already hatched one clutch from the sire, the candino, and where the female did not prove to be het for albino, all of the hatchlings came out perfect, so it makes me lean more towards the female since it is her first season to lay and because of that I have nothing to compare her against.

Now my question unfortunately is, with their lower jaws being so much shorter than their upper jaw, can they have a good life, as far as eating, comfort, basically not being completely miserable where it would be in their better interest to cull them?

The underbite and being eyeless both are not death sentences.
Your best bet is to wait and see if they can eat properly, and if they can't it could be best to euthanize.
Otherwise, they can probably be adopted out as pets :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikeM75

I have already hatched one clutch from the sire, the candino, and where the female did not prove to be het for albino, all of the hatchlings came out perfect, so it makes me lean more towards the female since it is her first season to lay and because of that I have nothing to compare her against.

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I would highly doubt one parent to be the problem, unless that parent also shows the same deformities. It's more likely the both of them together are just an unlucky pairing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikeM75

I have already hatched one clutch from the sire, the candino, and where the female did not prove to be het for albino, all of the hatchlings came out perfect, so it makes me lean more towards the female since it is her first season to lay and because of that I have nothing to compare her against.

Now my question unfortunately is, with their lower jaws being so much shorter than their upper jaw, can they have a good life, as far as eating, comfort, basically not being completely miserable where it would be in their better interest to cull them?

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Honestly, and this ia just my opinion, id cull them. I find it hard to believe that they'd have a good quality of life with the jaw issues.

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Here are a few pictures of these guys, 4 made it out.

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14...00b5da5e44.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14...8a2ddc2bd0.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14...7a08278596.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14...2d493c4134.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14...a66ff37352.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14...66affb9152.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14...d498f955c0.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14...7331c7ca71.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14...6d055b5a94.jpg


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Poor babies! I personally would do what someone else said and see how they are with eating a thriving. They're jaws are clearly deformed, but they don't look bad enough to interfere with eating IMO. I would see how they do then adopt them out as pets only. I would totally take one of those! Good luck.

As odd as they look, they are still cute. A couple with chunks missing out of their upper jaws might have some trouble, but the others should be okay as long as they will eat. That first one in the first picture is adorable!

If they can smell the prey because obviously can't see them. NO LIVE haha as if it weren't obvious.

Those jaw deformities......If I had to guess what caused this I would go out on a limb and say bacterial infection within the egg during development. Did you manually separate the eggs from one another early on?

Also, I would cull the deformed ones. No sense in letting them suffer with those horrific deformities.

The severely deformed one I would put down. The others, you will have to wait and see.

The problem with underbites like those is that it make it VERY difficult for the animal to eat on it's on if it even will and obviously having to assist feed an animal for the rest of his life is no quality of life.

I hatched 2 animals with underbites and neither one ever fed on their own.

That's not fun but it is the other side of breeding that we all have to deal with sooner or later.

Aww mike so sorry about your clutch. I've heard it's been a rough year for the breeders


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More than likely an incubation issue. I had this happen with a clutch several years ago. No other issues with hatchlings from either parents with different pairings. I had hatchlings with no eyes and "overbites". I had to assist feed for a few months, but most eventually ate on their own and are doing great now. The only one that has some issues is the eyeless one; ~30/70 with self- vs. assist-feeding. He's an active little fella and I couldn't image culling him.

He is a little extra work, but I'm glad I kept him and he is a constant reminder that things don't always go the way we want. The others were given as pets to caring homes. Culling is the lazy way out in this situation (with the exception of the hatchling with the "clovered" upper jaw--unless it does fine). It will take time, with patience being the key to their well-being. Good luck.

Sorry to hear bud. We both had bad albino clutches this week I know how it feels. ( the other thread with the under bite )