First time BP owner setup + ordering?

Hello everyone :D In a week or two I should (hopefully) be getting my first ball python. I'm not looking to breed or anything (not yet :P) so this snake is just to be a pet. I have had a corn snake now for a few months so I'm not completely new to snake care, and I've done all my research and read all the care sheets and such. I'm really just hoping some of you can point me towards some affordable products and give me some advice. First off, I'm looking for a good tub to house her in. I've went tub shopping (haha) but I'm always afraid I'm gonna buy the wrong one cause with my luck I'll buy that one tub you should NEVER use xD The snake I'm getting *should* be a baby female. I've looked at quite a few of the name brand "locking" tubs and not only am I having trouble finding a suitable size, but they don't seem very secure. I'm terrified at the idea of an escape as I have a cat in the house and radiators she can get lost under. For my corn I'm using a glass tank w/ locks AND bungee cords even though he's never tried to escape yet. So, any ideas on a tub? I know I'm gonna have to upgrade which is another reason I'm going with tubs over tanks aside from the fact I don't have the space for anymore tanks lol. Links are particularly helpful, i'm willing to buy online as long as the price is decent. My budget for this is $420 max. I can't really spend a dollar over that at the moment. Secondly, I wanted to ask about ordering. I'm looking to get my snake from BHB Reptiles as they seem to be very reputable and I haven't heard any complaints. I also watch they're little youtube series and they seem to really care about their animals/know what they're doing. Their price for a normal ball python female is $70 w/ shipping. My big question is does anyone know what they feed their baby balls? Live or frozen? I do NOT want to be feeding live unless its absolutely necessary as I live in an apartment w/ my mother (I'm 18) and having live mice (or especially rats!) in the house is a big no-no. If she were to go off feed for a while and it was a necessity then, sure, that'd be fine, but every week won't work haha I also had a question about heat tape. I know its supposed to be a whole lot cheaper then heat mats and I'm really looking into it as I don't want to have to buy another heat mat every time she moves up a tub size. I'm just not very sure on how to set it up. I know it requires a thermostat, and I already have one for my corn setup so I know how those work, but not sure how I'd hook one up to heat tape. Also, I use one of the cheap hydrofarm ones. Would that be ok with heat tape? Last thing, I will be keeping her in the same room that I keep my birds (parakeets) in. The birds are all tucked away, so I'm not worried about them escaping or the snake being able to get to them. Would there be any other issues with keeping them in the same room? Thanks in advance! Sorry for such a long post full of noobish questions xD

Purchasing your first BP.. make sure you have spot on husbandry Then worry about snake.. Get a good Thermostat first of all, and go from there. 10$ for THG tape/buy a glass aquarium from craigslist with locking lid (50$ give good clean) but like i said BIGGEST thing would be ur thermostat. make sure you get a good one of those!

As for a Snake, IF you can wait be worth your time to visit a local reptile expo! you can find number of snakes, see them and talk to breeders! most small breeders are just as good if not better then the biggers ones Simply bcz less snakes to look after so more time, holding/cleaning/maintaining!!! aswell you can see many styles you want, and well. They will be alot better $$ as Cash is king!

I started with a locking tub from office max and a simple zoomed heat pad and thermostat (everything is cheap on Amazon). The tub was an iris brand and I chose it because it had a flat bottom and sides. Easier cleaning having no ridges. Drilled a bunch of holes in the lid and a few in the sides till the humidity was staying just right. I since moved on to a rack system. If you feel you may get more than a few snakes down the road just start saving for a nice rack system. There are relatively cheap options from great company's like Animal Plastics. If you think you may just keep the one snake then a Vision cage is a great option. They hold in the humidity very well and look nice. As far as where to get your ball Python from. BHB is a great reputable breeder and probably the biggest in the world?? There are many many other great breeders out there too though. I think you should step up to a single gene ball that will hold it's color for you. Something like a lesser or butter. Here is a great looking black pastel male that is a steal and from a great breeder as well for the same $75. Black pastels are a great gene to get into now too

Great first snake:
http://www.boabarn.com/2012-Liesen-L...stel-Male.html

Great cheap thermostat:
http://www.amazon.com/Zilla-11403-Co...mostat+reptile

Good heating pad:
http://www.amazon.com/Zoo-Med-ReptiT...le+heating+pad

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Originally Posted by BrianDallek

I started with a locking tub from office max and a simple zoomed heat pad and thermostat (everything is cheap on Amazon). The tub was an iris brand and I chose it because it had a flat bottom and sides. Easier cleaning having no ridges. Drilled a bunch of holes in the lid and a few in the sides till the humidity was staying just right. I since moved on to a rack system. If you feel you may get more than a few snakes down the road just start saving for a nice rack system. There are relatively cheap options from great company's like Animal Plastics. If you think you may just keep the one snake then a Vision cage is a great option. They hold in the humidity very well and look nice. As far as where to get your ball Python from. BHB is a great reputable breeder and probably the biggest in the world?? There are many many other great breeders out there too though. I think you should step up to a single gene ball that will hold it's color for you. Something like a lesser or butter. Here is a great looking black pastel male that is a steal and from a great breeder as well for the same $75. Black pastels are a great gene to get into now too

Great first snake:
http://www.boabarn.com/2012-Liesen-L...stel-Male.html

Great cheap thermostat:
http://www.amazon.com/Zilla-11403-Co...mostat+reptile

Good heating pad:
http://www.amazon.com/Zoo-Med-ReptiT...le+heating+pad

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That is NOT a "great" tstat. Search here and see how many have failed, plus they are analog. We are in the digital age, they are best. I would rather a Hydrofarm before that one. I have had both and both failed. I was only using them for quarantine so the use was minimal yet they failed. Plenty of people here still use the Hydrofarm but I no longer feel comfortable recommending it. Mine failed in the months.

A tstat is the most important thing you are going to buy. Do not get cheap. Herpstat is what I use. I have a 1, 2, and 4. I have never had an issue with them. The intro is only $100 so I would get that and a $8 tub until you can get a nice pvc cage.

http://www.spyderrobotics.com/home/products.html

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Originally Posted by KMG

That is NOT a "great" tstat. Search here and see how many have failed, plus they are analog. We are in the digital age, they are best. I would rather a Hydrofarm before that one. I have had both and both failed. I was only using them for quarantine so the use was minimal yet they failed. Plenty of people here still use the Hydrofarm but I no longer feel comfortable recommending it. Mine failed in the months.

A tstat is the most important thing you are going to buy. Do not get cheap. Herpstat is what I use. I have a 1, 2, and 4. I have never had an issue with them. The intro is only $100 so I would get that and a $8 tub until you can get a nice pvc cage.

http://www.spyderrobotics.com/home/products.html

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Hmm, yea I would def only go with something digital, analog ones just don't cut it for me. If and when my hydrofarm fails (I'm currently using one for my corn) would it be harmful to the snake? What I mean is, would it jack up the temps really high, or appear to be working when it's really not? I always keep an eye on the temps in the tank, but now you got me worried. I'll def look into the Herpstat. I'm willing to pay the extra $70 to prevent burns haha
Also would a 15qt be ok for a baby? And how long would that last till I have to move up? Later on when I get the money I'm looking to maybe build some sort of small rack or something like that. But as of now I'm fine with using bins. Don't care if they're ugly as long as they do their job! Thanks :)


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by BrianDallek

I started with a locking tub from office max and a simple zoomed heat pad and thermostat (everything is cheap on Amazon). The tub was an iris brand and I chose it because it had a flat bottom and sides. Easier cleaning having no ridges. Drilled a bunch of holes in the lid and a few in the sides till the humidity was staying just right. I since moved on to a rack system. If you feel you may get more than a few snakes down the road just start saving for a nice rack system. There are relatively cheap options from great company's like Animal Plastics. If you think you may just keep the one snake then a Vision cage is a great option. They hold in the humidity very well and look nice. As far as where to get your ball Python from. BHB is a great reputable breeder and probably the biggest in the world?? There are many many other great breeders out there too though. I think you should step up to a single gene ball that will hold it's color for you. Something like a lesser or butter. Here is a great looking black pastel male that is a steal and from a great breeder as well for the same $75. Black pastels are a great gene to get into now too

Great first snake:
http://www.boabarn.com/2012-Liesen-L...stel-Male.html

Great cheap thermostat:
http://www.amazon.com/Zilla-11403-Co...mostat+reptile

Good heating pad:
http://www.amazon.com/Zoo-Med-ReptiT...le+heating+pad

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Thanks for the links, I'm actually looking at all the cool morphs now and am considering getting either a pastel, super pastel or spider. Especially hearing that typically spiders are heartier eaters and have that cute head wobble xD can't decide now xD


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I agree with Corbin, which I am coming to find I normally do..., Get the enclosure set up first. Ensure it is stable. Play with the thermostat in your house and see if it can hold temp/humidity based on that fluctuating. Take it from me, WAIT until a reptile show in your area. Small breeders are the way to go. I found a guy here in Denver and I will probably be going to him for everything. Great prices, more personal service and more willing to work one on one.

Congrats and good luck!!

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Originally Posted by KMG

That is NOT a "great" tstat. Search here and see how many have failed, plus they are analog. We are in the digital age, they are best. I would rather a Hydrofarm before that one. I have had both and both failed. I was only using them for quarantine so the use was minimal yet they failed. Plenty of people here still use the Hydrofarm but I no longer feel comfortable recommending it. Mine failed in the months.

A tstat is the most important thing you are going to buy. Do not get cheap. Herpstat is what I use. I have a 1, 2, and 4. I have never had an issue with them. The intro is only $100 so I would get that and a $8 tub until you can get a nice pvc cage.

http://www.spyderrobotics.com/home/products.html

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Well I said "great cheap thermostat". If your going to quote, you can't take half. From her original post it appeared that she was on a very tight budget. For $20 it is the best option. I've had that exact thermostat on one of my racks for over 4 years and the temps have remained perfect. I agree with what your saying, I was just giving my opinion based on what I read. My advice would be to get an ARS rack with a herpstat 4 and start filling it with Banana pins and GHI's. Now in her posts she is looking at Super pastels and $100+ tstats so I guess the budget just got bigger.

Redcloud,
When mine failed the readout was jumping around flashing and blinking. It was not delivering enough power to warm the uth so I was lucky my snake was not harmed. I can't say that this is how they will all fail.

A 15qt should be fine. Its hard to say when you would need to move up but that's what great about tubs, they are cheap and readily available. Saving up for a rack or nice cage is a great idea. Also scout Craigslist for them. People upgrading or getting out of the hobby will list them from time to time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BrianDallek

Well I said "great cheap thermostat". If your going to quote, you can't take half. From her original post it appeared that she was on a very tight budget. For $20 it is the best option. I've had that exact thermostat on one of my racks for over 4 years and the temps have remained perfect. I agree with what your saying, I was just giving my opinion based on what I read. My advice would be to get an ARS rack with a herpstat 4 and start filling it with Banana pins and GHI's. Now in her posts she is looking at Super pastels and $100+ tstats so I guess the budget just got bigger.

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It doesn't matter if cheap is in front of great or not. That tstat is in no way great. Its old technology and much harder to dial in than digital ones.

What is cheap usually turns out to cost more in the end. If you buy cheap you get cheap. When I think of cheap in regards to a tstat, I think $100 is cheap. Spending alittle extra to have piece of mind is worth it to me. Maybe that is because I had two fail and that I have been on here long enough to see the results of run away uth. Search the forum and maybe some of the burns, melted tubs, and animals lost will change your way of thinking.

No matter what animal a person decides to keep they should be able to afford it. That does not mean that you have to spend a ton of money but that persons money should be used wisely on the things that matter most. Tubs are super cheap, easy to clean, and easy to upgrade. With the money you can save using these instead of a glass tank that is going to need more work to keep proper husbandry you can spend more on a better tstat. There are plenty out there that will last a lifetime.

Take my naturalistic bp tank in my living room. Its a 40gal glass tank in a room that stays 68. I have a uth, a 100 watt che, and a 60 watt bulb for the cool side. I had to cover the sides and back to add security and insulation. I had to make a cover for the screen to keep the heat and humidity in. Plus I have a mister set up to water the plants and keep me from misting every day. Then to do that properly it takes two fixtures, two lamp stands, bulbs, spare bulbs, uth, mister, locking lid tank, then all the plants and supplies inside. Sound cheap? Nope. I do it because it looks good and I enjoy it, but its not necessary. If I was on a tight budget you can be assured all my snakes would be in tubs and not naturalistic glass tanks or custom PVC cages.

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Originally Posted by RedCloud

Hmm, yea I would def only go with something digital, analog ones just don't cut it for me. If and when my hydrofarm fails (I'm currently using one for my corn) would it be harmful to the snake? What I mean is, would it jack up the temps really high, or appear to be working when it's really not? I always keep an eye on the temps in the tank, but now you got me worried. I'll def look into the Herpstat. I'm willing to pay the extra $70 to prevent burns haha
Also would a 15qt be ok for a baby? And how long would that last till I have to move up? Later on when I get the money I'm looking to maybe build some sort of small rack or something like that. But as of now I'm fine with using bins. Don't care if they're ugly as long as they do their job! Thanks :)


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It will be Lethal to the snake, as they Dont have fail safes Down they just fail... which means a unregulated heat source, and with 2-3 hours of no regulation it can jump from 80-130+ which is enough to burn your snake, and if left over night, could cause much worse issues.... As said an intro herp is only 100$ (being in states you dont have to pay duties and massive shipping) Another company JUST as good would be Vivarium Electronics VE-100 or Ve-200 Reptile basics i believe! I currently use Herpstat 2 with each probe connected to diffrent rack.

There are many people WHO also sell them used simply because no need or lowering collection. I purchased a VE-100 for 50$ of my local Reptile forum, You can always search there, Just ask them to plug it into a piece of heat tape 1-2 hours prior to you going and have a heat gun handy make sure its within 1-2 degrees (temps are never 100% EVEN with new! i set mine to 90, heat tape is 91.2+/- so just always make sure its within a degree or 2 and work with that!


As for snakes You can always buy from BHB they are extremely good, i wish they were in canada! But a good place for starter snakes when your not 100% sure what youd like, is a reptile expo i 100% wish i got my first snake from there vs a pet store (stupid me 120$ for a normal baby male "which was a female so not so bad" at 89g) This is because you will have all sorts of visual arrays in front of you, the actual snake sometimes pictures dont do a snake justice or others give them too much justice, And as always, small breeders cash speaks! they dont have 100,000's of dollars like others so you could pick yourself up a nice well started mojave/butter/lesser for maybe 200-300(500+g) or a pied for 350$ for a male! expos are just fun aswell get to talk to breeders and meet the snakes in person!


Aswell IF YOU do plan on getting a collection Buy a rack! 100% you will save money, when i first started i paid 180$ for a aquarium... again pet store :colbert:... i then moved to 2 pvc cages like animal plastics t8.... 340$ per (in canada as they were semi newish here) so now im out 680$ (pvc) $180(snake aquarium) 68$ cheap reptile thermostat... so if we add all that up thats almost 1000$ i was able to sell it all for maybe 300$ in the end.... im kicking myself now, ended up saving up for a bit and purchasing a ARS rack (used a hand made melanin till i could afford) but always plan ahead with this stuff, your thermostat will last, and will be there no matter what enclosure! So if you do plan on gettin 3+ snakes, a nice AP/Boaphile/C-serpants 5+bin rack will do you justice, and youll save money in the end and LOTS of time, The rack systems are soo easy to maintain and its never a hassle/chore to clean them with any substrate you choose!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BrianDallek

Well I said "great cheap thermostat". If your going to quote, you can't take half. From her original post it appeared that she was on a very tight budget. For $20 it is the best option. I've had that exact thermostat on one of my racks for over 4 years and the temps have remained perfect. I agree with what your saying, I was just giving my opinion based on what I read. My advice would be to get an ARS rack with a herpstat 4 and start filling it with Banana pins and GHI's. Now in her posts she is looking at Super pastels and $100+ tstats so I guess the budget just got bigger.

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Well alot of people dont fully know, and AT LEAST she said thermostat many people here dont have anything regulated so that too boot is a good start! Her being told of simpel yet extremly effective husbandry well let her set aside of all that crap pet stores throw at you and buy a nice tub/herpstat for equal if not less value! secondly checking forums, many people already sell racks+heat+thermostat, for many reasons upgrading to new rack, lowering amount of snakes or leaving hobby! she could get a steal possibly and find all three for a good 250-350$

And lastly super pastel are nothing shy of pricey, they are simple morphs now drowned out by everything else, a pastel is 50$... a super pastel maybe 100-200$ (young) And this is why i said EXPO itll let her see sooooooooo many morphs, style, paintjobs because even the same morph can ALL look soo different. 2 different line of super/pastel morphs can be low to bright yellow!

My biggest advice as already said is perfect your husbandry for the future if she wants multiple snakes, fork out that 430$ she has right now on a Rack+Thermostat because 1 rack will hold 5+ snakes... 3 pvc enclsures will hold 6+ but the price/value diffrence is emence, and well 1 tank is 1 snake! Hell she could even do a DIY rack like many others do for 100$ and spend 200$ on setup and have 250+(savings) for reptile show, put away 50$ a paycheck or however her income happens and save ahead for her Expo.. BHB is by no means bad, and as i said i would love for them to be here, but you WILL never ever get a deal from them as you will from a small local breeder/hobbyest paying for expenses. I was lucky enough to meet a medium sized breeder at an expo who wasn't selling lives 20mins from me i buy/barrow morphs all the time from him make my breeding program better! But that is my 2cents, I wish you best of luck with w.e direction you choose =)

Talk about timing. This burn was created by a tstat in the same quality range as the "great cheap" one. The money saved on that tstat just went into vet bills, not cheap. That money could have gone into a great tstat and prevented the whole thing.

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...ners-Pic-heavy

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KMG

Talk about timing. This burn was created by a tstat in the same quality range as the "great cheap" one. The money saved on that tstat just went into vet bills, not cheap. That money could have gone into a great tstat and prevented the whole thing.

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...ners-Pic-heavy

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:rage: You beat me to it!!!!! But exactly that, and went to vet bills! Id beg to say this poor guy could be halfway finished paying off a Coral Glow/Banana after paying for a vet bill!

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Originally Posted by RedCloud

Hello everyone :D In a week or two I should (hopefully) be getting my first ball python. I'm not looking to breed or anything (not yet :P) so this snake is just to be a pet. I have had a corn snake now for a few months so I'm not completely new to snake care, and I've done all my research and read all the care sheets and such. I'm really just hoping some of you can point me towards some affordable products and give me some advice. First off, I'm looking for a good tub to house her in. I've went tub shopping (haha) but I'm always afraid I'm gonna buy the wrong one cause with my luck I'll buy that one tub you should NEVER use xD The snake I'm getting *should* be a baby female. I've looked at quite a few of the name brand "locking" tubs and not only am I having trouble finding a suitable size, but they don't seem very secure. I'm terrified at the idea of an escape as I have a cat in the house and radiators she can get lost under. For my corn I'm using a glass tank w/ locks AND bungee cords even though he's never tried to escape yet. So, any ideas on a tub? I know I'm gonna have to upgrade which is another reason I'm going with tubs over tanks aside from the fact I don't have the space for anymore tanks lol. Links are particularly helpful, i'm willing to buy online as long as the price is decent. My budget for this is $420 max. I can't really spend a dollar over that at the moment. Secondly, I wanted to ask about ordering. I'm looking to get my snake from BHB Reptiles as they seem to be very reputable and I haven't heard any complaints. I also watch they're little youtube series and they seem to really care about their animals/know what they're doing. Their price for a normal ball python female is $70 w/ shipping. My big question is does anyone know what they feed their baby balls? Live or frozen? I do NOT want to be feeding live unless its absolutely necessary as I live in an apartment w/ my mother (I'm 18) and having live mice (or especially rats!) in the house is a big no-no. If she were to go off feed for a while and it was a necessity then, sure, that'd be fine, but every week won't work haha I also had a question about heat tape. I know its supposed to be a whole lot cheaper then heat mats and I'm really looking into it as I don't want to have to buy another heat mat every time she moves up a tub size. I'm just not very sure on how to set it up. I know it requires a thermostat, and I already have one for my corn setup so I know how those work, but not sure how I'd hook one up to heat tape. Also, I use one of the cheap hydrofarm ones. Would that be ok with heat tape? Last thing, I will be keeping her in the same room that I keep my birds (parakeets) in. The birds are all tucked away, so I'm not worried about them escaping or the snake being able to get to them. Would there be any other issues with keeping them in the same room? Thanks in advance! Sorry for such a long post full of noobish questions xD

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We have used the Sterilite ClearView Latch tubs (clear bins with purple latches) with no escaping issues since we got our boys in December. I know some people use bungee cords, luggage straps, or binder clips to help keep the lid secure, especially with larger bins, but we have not needed to use anything other than the latches. We started them in the 15 qt bins, and recently switched them to 32 qt bins. We purchased them at Target - I'm pretty sure if you buy them online, you have to buy like 6 of them, so it'd probably be better to just look in the store. I think the 15 qt bins were about $5-6 each, and the 32 qt bins were about $8 each, but I'm not positive. They look like these: http://www.sterilite.com/SelectProdu...=252&section=1 and http://www.sterilite.com/SelectProdu...=252&section=1 An adult male ball python should be fine in a 32 qt bin, but an adult female will probably need a 41 qt bin.

Wherever you get your baby, ask the breeder what she's eating. It'd definitely be easiest if she's already on frozen/thawed rats, if that's what you want her to ultimately be on. I also would recommend going to a reptile show to purchase her, because it's cheaper (prices are generally lower and you save the cost of shipping), and you can actually see and handle her before you make a final decision. Shipping is also fairly stressful for them, so if you can avoid shipping, it's generally easier on the snake.

We have a Herpstat 1 and love it, and the Vivarium electronics thermostats are also supposed to be really good. They're pretty similar in price.
http://www.spyderrobotics.com/home/products.html
http://www.reptilebasics.com/thermostats

We built our own rack out of melamine, and we're using 4" THG heat tape. We purchased it from Reptile Basics, and it came pre-assembled at exactly the lengths I requested, so it was really easy.
http://www.reptilebasics.com/heat-tape

This thread is really helpful for setting up a tub: http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...e-Basics-*DUW*
You can use the second method of attaching the heat mat (or in your case heat tape) to a piece of melamine so it's easier to clean the tubs, and when you switch tub sizes, you don't have to worry about moving the heat tape at all. I hope that makes sense.

To answer your last question, you shouldn't have any issues with housing her in the same room as your birds. There are several people who successfully keep mice, rats, etc. in the same room as their snakes. I have noticed that my bearded dragons (who are in the same room as our ball pythons) seem to notice and watch the snakes sometimes when they are moving about their tubs. I have no experience with birds, but you may want to consider if they can see each other when you're deciding where the snake's tub will be in relation to the birds.

Ill add to that, The first VE thermostat, i wouldn't bother with. The biggest thing you want is Proportional in your thermostat! Dimming/Pulse I dont think matters too much! With the herpstat you can choose either or (that's why i like them best more friendly and more options) I choose dimming because there is less heat fluctuation and less power usage overall doesn't spike Output %'s

I just looked at how much we spent on our melamine rack that we made for our three boys. We spent about $245 (including any shipping) on the melamine (more than enough for a rack that holds 3 32 qt bins), thermostat (Herpstat 1), heat tape, and three 15 qt bins. We used plastic bowls as hides, ceramic ramekins for water bowls, and newspaper as substrate. You'll also need a decent digital thermometer/hygrometer ($12 at Walmart for an Acu-rite brand one), and feeding tongs/hemostats if you're feeding frozen/thawed (around $10 on Amazon). So you should definitely be able to get the tub set up for way less than $420, and still have money leftover to spend on the snake, rats, etc.

Just a suggestion if your not handy, these racks are inexpensive If you do choose this way

http://www.cserpents.com/C_Serpents_...Sub-Adult.html

http://www.apcages.com/home/

Just options, aswell they can make PVC cages if you do choose to go that route aswell. Or someone here could point you to a local reptile forum, (im canadian so mine is reptilescanada.ca but that will offer you little to no help)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KMG

Talk about timing. This burn was created by a tstat in the same quality range as the "great cheap" one. The money saved on that tstat just went into vet bills, not cheap. That money could have gone into a great tstat and prevented the whole thing.

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...ners-Pic-heavy

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I'm not sure why everyone (KMG & Corbin911) have such a hard on for my wording and choice of a "great cheap thermostat". First off the thermostat this person used was not named in that thread and not all sub $50 thermostats are the same. Second off the thermostat I recommended DOES HAVE a safety feature that shuts it off the unit upon failure. So let me once again say the tstat that I recommended is in fact within the parameters of cheaper thermostats a great cheap one. And it would be a disservice to not mention which options are best at different price points. I happened to present a good cheaper option. So rather than bash anything that you deem not the right choice, please just try to present your own options for her without generalizing anything cheap as bad.

From Zilla's website: "An added safety feature automatically shuts off the heating system if terrarium temperature exceeds 110°F due to heater malfunction or excessive sunlight."

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Originally Posted by BrianDallek

From Zilla's website: "An added safety feature automatically shuts off the heating system if terrarium temperature exceeds 110°F due to heater malfunction or excessive sunlight."

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Great so if the mat malfunctions or sun over heats the cage the tstat will shut down at 110. That is not a safety for if the actual tstat fails. Plus many animals can perish before the cage reaches 110.

Keep using that tstat, that is your choice its just not the best option. I choose to give the best advice I can here and will not endorse any product I would not use. I also refuse to sit idle while info is shared about something that could be hazardous. I would feel terrible if a person took my advice and their animal was killed because of something I told them or recommended to them.

When my tstat failed, it failed on. I found it soon after failing(within an hour) so I'm not entirely sure what would have happened but it was still delivering power to the uth. This was on a new BRB I'd got which are kinda delicate compared to some so I was lucky I didn't trust the tstat and was checking it often.

Just FYI:
Herpstats have alarms to let you know if the temp gets to high or low. They are not factory set and can be set by the user to whatever temp they desire. This is especially beneficial when you keep delicate animals like tree pythons and rainbow boas.

If my setup is effected by a malfunctioning mat, sun, flooded water bowl, etc my Herpstat will actually let me know as well as record the event in case I'm away. I can track my low and high temps by day and time and make adjustments according.

They also can do night drop and a plethora of other super useful things. These paired with the other features of a Herpstat makes them well worth the money.
So in a money vs. features comparison the tstat you like is really very expensive. Its basically a one trick pony.

I have only purchased my Herpstat 4 new. Both my Herpstat 1s (forgot about my quarantine/back up earlier) and Herpstat 2 were bought off here and fauna at very good prices in like new condition. The deals are out there you just have to look.

Spyder Robotics is doing a 10% off summer sale.

http://spyderrobotics.com/

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BrianDallek

I'm not sure why everyone (KMG & Corbin911) have such a hard on for my wording and choice of a "great cheap thermostat". First off the thermostat this person used was not named in that thread and not all sub $50 thermostats are the same. Second off the thermostat I recommended DOES HAVE a safety feature that shuts it off the unit upon failure. So let me once again say the tstat that I recommended is in fact within the parameters of cheaper thermostats a great cheap one. And it would be a disservice to not mention which options are best at different price points. I happened to present a good cheaper option. So rather than bash anything that you deem not the right choice, please just try to present your own options for her without generalizing anything cheap as bad.

From Zilla's website: "An added safety feature automatically shuts off the heating system if terrarium temperature exceeds 110°F due to heater malfunction or excessive sunlight."

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Not ONCE did we BASH what you said, were TELLING her best investment... Your thermostat should be your Best investment in snake keeping as a 110$ piece of equipment, can and will hold Thousands of dollars of snakes, Mines roughly protecting over 35,000$ of snakes, on just 1.... So yes dont cheap out if you dont need too.. it will HOLD its value!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CORBIN911

Not ONCE did we BASH what you said, were TELLING her best investment... Your thermostat should be your Best investment in snake keeping as a 110$ piece of equipment, can and will hold Thousands of dollars of snakes, Mines roughly protecting over 35,000$ of snakes, on just 1.... So yes dont cheap out if you dont need too.. it will HOLD its value!

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Well I said you had a hard on for my wording, which you two did. You used it in quotes a few times as if I was committing some sort of sin, lol. Second I didn't say you bashed what I said. I said you bashed a product before you even took the time to look at it. You saw that it was cheap and made assumptions like that it didn't have a safety off feature, which it does.

This thermostat does have a safety off feature. You do not put the probe in the tank so usually the probe is higher than the actual inside temp. That said if it were to fail it isn't going to jump up to 109 degrees and sit for hours. If it fails, which any thermostat can..including yours, it will probably jump up to 110 within a few minutes and then shut off causing no damage to your snake. Is your thermostat recommendation better...Absolutely, but is mine bad..nope. I'm not sure how in the heck this came to me defending a great cheap thermostat option, but dare I say there may have been some opinion bullying. I mean geese KMG is keeping his ball in an aquarium and is making up phrases like "Naturalistic glass tanks". I sense some insecurities and therefor I will just step away from this conversation and probably trying to help anybody on this site if the BPnet veterans are going to police it day and night.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BrianDallek

Well I said you had a hard on for my wording, which you two did. You used it in quotes a few times as if I was committing some sort of sin, lol. Second I didn't say you bashed what I said. I said you bashed a product before you even took the time to look at it. You saw that it was cheap and made assumptions like that it didn't have a safety off feature, which it does.

This thermostat does have a safety off feature. You do not put the probe in the tank so usually the probe is higher than the actual inside temp. That said if it were to fail it isn't going to jump up to 109 degrees and sit for hours. If it fails, which any thermostat can..including yours, it will probably jump up to 110 within a few minutes and then shut off causing no damage to your snake. Is your thermostat recommendation better...Absolutely, but is mine bad..nope. I'm not sure how in the heck this came to me defending a great cheap thermostat option, but dare I say there may have been some opinion bullying. I mean geese KMG is keeping his ball in an aquarium and is making up phrases like "Naturalistic glass tanks". I sense some insecurities and therefor I will just step away from this conversation and probably trying to help anybody on this site if the BPnet veterans are going to police it day and night.

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The fact remains that cheap tstats are far more likely to fail and when they fail to cause problems. You also don't seem to understand that I OWNED the very tstat you are recommending and it FAILED on me and when it failed it still had power. It did NOT shut off.

As for your comment about my naturalistic keeping. Take a look at my profile pics and you will see that I prefer to keep naturalistic cages when possible. That means I present the animals in more than just a box with a hide, bowl, and mulch. I keep two glass tanks still, they are in my living room. Why? I prefer the way they look so I keep them. I also have several pvc cages and a rack. Different types of housing for different kinds of snakes with different needs. There are several books on the topic, a topic you obviously didnt know existed.

To expand you knowledge on this google words like terrarium and vivarium. Im not the only keeper that does this and it can be very complex and advanced to do so.

From Merriam-Webster:
nat·u·ral·is·tic adjective \ˌna-chə-rə-ˈlis-tik, ˌnach-rə-\

: looking like what appears in nature : not looking artificial or man-made
: using naturalism in art or literature : showing people or things as they really are

Check out this book = The Art of Keeping Snakes

"From author Philippe de Vosjoli, “art is the actualization of a personal vision or message,” and de Vosjoli’s passion is snakes, which he believes are among the most beautiful animals on earth. Incorporating snakes into a naturalistic vivarium, the way lizards and amphibians usually are, adds a new element to snake keeping, elevating the hobby to a true art form."

http://www.amazon.com/Keeping-Snakes...listic+keeping

This is also a good book
http://www.amazon.com/Natural-Terrar...ral+terrariums

I am not trying to bully anybody and do not feel that I have. However, you trying to insult me and my keeping just showed your ignorance on keeping.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jdhutton2000

I agree with Corbin, which I am coming to find I normally do..., Get the enclosure set up first. Ensure it is stable. Play with the thermostat in your house and see if it can hold temp/humidity based on that fluctuating. Take it from me, WAIT until a reptile show in your area. Small breeders are the way to go. I found a guy here in Denver and I will probably be going to him for everything. Great prices, more personal service and more willing to work one on one.

Congrats and good luck!!

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Thats exactly what I'll be doing as far as setting up before I get the snake. I wanna make sure everything is perfect BEFORE I put a living animal in there lol. I have HIGHLY considered going to a reptile show, but 1) Most of them are a pretty long drive from me and I don't drive. And most importantly, with so many animals on display I KNOW I'll end up buying more than one or ones that will push my budget lol When I go shopping for inanimate objects, I have no issues, but when it comes to animals.....Especially when you get to hold them >< I'm still considering, if I can get someone to drive me up as it would be great to talk to all the breeders.

Wow, thats not a bad total :D Thanks!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CORBIN911

Well alot of people dont fully know, and AT LEAST she said thermostat many people here dont have anything regulated so that too boot is a good start! Her being told of simpel yet extremly effective husbandry well let her set aside of all that crap pet stores throw at you and buy a nice tub/herpstat for equal if not less value! secondly checking forums, many people already sell racks+heat+thermostat, for many reasons upgrading to new rack, lowering amount of snakes or leaving hobby! she could get a steal possibly and find all three for a good 250-350$

And lastly super pastel are nothing shy of pricey, they are simple morphs now drowned out by everything else, a pastel is 50$... a super pastel maybe 100-200$ (young) And this is why i said EXPO itll let her see sooooooooo many morphs, style, paintjobs because even the same morph can ALL look soo different. 2 different line of super/pastel morphs can be low to bright yellow!

My biggest advice as already said is perfect your husbandry for the future if she wants multiple snakes, fork out that 430$ she has right now on a Rack+Thermostat because 1 rack will hold 5+ snakes... 3 pvc enclsures will hold 6+ but the price/value diffrence is emence, and well 1 tank is 1 snake! Hell she could even do a DIY rack like many others do for 100$ and spend 200$ on setup and have 250+(savings) for reptile show, put away 50$ a paycheck or however her income happens and save ahead for her Expo.. BHB is by no means bad, and as i said i would love for them to be here, but you WILL never ever get a deal from them as you will from a small local breeder/hobbyest paying for expenses. I was lucky enough to meet a medium sized breeder at an expo who wasn't selling lives 20mins from me i buy/barrow morphs all the time from him make my breeding program better! But that is my 2cents, I wish you best of luck with w.e direction you choose =)

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Thanks! As I said, I would love to go to a reptile show but I'm a little leery on my self control xD I'm really in no rush, as I'm just looking around online at prices and such. Nothing is really set in stone for me atm except the fact that I will be buying a BP sometime in the near future. I'm really still up in the air about morphs and breeders and all that haha

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KMG

Talk about timing. This burn was created by a tstat in the same quality range as the "great cheap" one. The money saved on that tstat just went into vet bills, not cheap. That money could have gone into a great tstat and prevented the whole thing.

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...ners-Pic-heavy

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Wow wow wow. That is NOT good. I will def be getting a Herpstat 1 basic or Intro + I do not want to be frying my snakes. And when I get the cash I'll be replacing my Corn's thermostat as well. His heat mat states that it shuts off if the temps go over 90 so I'm not *too* worried but don't wanna risk it anyways. Thanks!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RedCloud

Thanks! As I said, I would love to go to a reptile show but I'm a little leery on my self control xD I'm really in no rush, as I'm just looking around online at prices and such. Nothing is really set in stone for me atm except the fact that I will be buying a BP sometime in the near future. I'm really still up in the air about morphs and breeders and all that haha

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Well thats good let it be that way, keep your eyes open, And possibly like i said consider a rack, Visually i like them, some like tanks/pvc cages for there appearance to "see snake" but in the end my happy snake is a pet rock in pvc cage all id see is the stuff inside, he was in his hide, And again Racks are just so nice to clean, put snake in lower tub, throw stuff in garbage, spray bleach mixture rub down, take to sink scolding hot water, wipe down again, clean as the plates i eat off of if not cleaner! THAT WAY ASWELL when you loose Self control.. which well WE ALL do at expo's youll have room for the 2+ babies you bring home :D

But like both I and K said will work check for your online reptile forums for "used" thing many people sell stuff for 50% less and its same quality just used, which wont effect you as long as you can use a damp rag. I spent over 3800$ to get my first ARS rack Shipping/duties/rack cost (US>canada) about 2 months ago i was able to buy 8 levels of the 7030 (no wheel base which i ordered for 280$ shipping and heat pannel) for 1500$ So i saved 2000$ and only missed out on 2 levels, Which was amazing deal Plus it came with a new in box herpstat 2 (redline edition) So its ALWAYS worth your time to skim over all classifieds and auctions on local forums over in the US

=)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bumblebee1028

We have used the Sterilite ClearView Latch tubs (clear bins with purple latches) with no escaping issues since we got our boys in December. I know some people use bungee cords, luggage straps, or binder clips to help keep the lid secure, especially with larger bins, but we have not needed to use anything other than the latches. We started them in the 15 qt bins, and recently switched them to 32 qt bins. We purchased them at Target - I'm pretty sure if you buy them online, you have to buy like 6 of them, so it'd probably be better to just look in the store. I think the 15 qt bins were about $5-6 each, and the 32 qt bins were about $8 each, but I'm not positive. They look like these: http://www.sterilite.com/SelectProdu...=252&section=1 and http://www.sterilite.com/SelectProdu...=252&section=1 An adult male ball python should be fine in a 32 qt bin, but an adult female will probably need a 41 qt bin.

Wherever you get your baby, ask the breeder what she's eating. It'd definitely be easiest if she's already on frozen/thawed rats, if that's what you want her to ultimately be on. I also would recommend going to a reptile show to purchase her, because it's cheaper (prices are generally lower and you save the cost of shipping), and you can actually see and handle her before you make a final decision. Shipping is also fairly stressful for them, so if you can avoid shipping, it's generally easier on the snake.

We have a Herpstat 1 and love it, and the Vivarium electronics thermostats are also supposed to be really good. They're pretty similar in price.
http://www.spyderrobotics.com/home/products.html
http://www.reptilebasics.com/thermostats

We built our own rack out of melamine, and we're using 4" THG heat tape. We purchased it from Reptile Basics, and it came pre-assembled at exactly the lengths I requested, so it was really easy.
http://www.reptilebasics.com/heat-tape

This thread is really helpful for setting up a tub: http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...e-Basics-*DUW*
You can use the second method of attaching the heat mat (or in your case heat tape) to a piece of melamine so it's easier to clean the tubs, and when you switch tub sizes, you don't have to worry about moving the heat tape at all. I hope that makes sense.

To answer your last question, you shouldn't have any issues with housing her in the same room as your birds. There are several people who successfully keep mice, rats, etc. in the same room as their snakes. I have noticed that my bearded dragons (who are in the same room as our ball pythons) seem to notice and watch the snakes sometimes when they are moving about their tubs. I have no experience with birds, but you may want to consider if they can see each other when you're deciding where the snake's tub will be in relation to the birds.

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Thanks very much thats very helpful! I'm REALLY surprised you never had any escape issues with those tubs! I was looking at them and the sides and corners can VERY easily be pulled up. And BP's look like very strong snakes. I keep hearing they have a rep for just sitting in one place most of the time and don't move around much, but other people say they can be very active and good escape artists. I think I'll get a similar tub but also use some cords or velcro JIC I get a crazy Houdini snake.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RedCloud

Thats exactly what I'll be doing as far as setting up before I get the snake. I wanna make sure everything is perfect BEFORE I put a living animal in there lol. I have HIGHLY considered going to a reptile show, but 1) Most of them are a pretty long drive from me and I don't drive. And most importantly, with so many animals on display I KNOW I'll end up buying more than one or ones that will push my budget lol When I go shopping for inanimate objects, I have no issues, but when it comes to animals.....Especially when you get to hold them >< I'm still considering, if I can get someone to drive me up as it would be great to talk to all the breeders.

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EVEN if you dont like reptiles they are FUN, theres so much to look at and learn, the last 1 i went to, had baby kangaroo/hycinth mcaw/red pandas/all kinda lil fuzzie critters that you could play with. Theres spiders/bugs/geckos (obv) sometimes weird fish! and obv every supply youll need, beddings/THERMOSTATS/weigh scales anything and everything, you can make a day trip out of it, with a few friends, bcz time flies, look around ask to reserve your snake/s till end of day and pick them up when the show ends (so yout not lugging them around without heat)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CORBIN911

Well thats good let it be that way, keep your eyes open, And possibly like i said consider a rack, Visually i like them, some like tanks/pvc cages for there appearance to "see snake" but in the end my happy snake is a pet rock in pvc cage all id see is the stuff inside, he was in his hide, And again Racks are just so nice to clean, put snake in lower tub, throw stuff in garbage, spray bleach mixture rub down, take to sink scolding hot water, wipe down again, clean as the plates i eat off of if not cleaner! THAT WAY ASWELL when you loose Self control.. which well WE ALL do at expo's youll have room for the 2+ babies you bring home :D

But like both I and K said will work check for your online reptile forums for "used" thing many people sell stuff for 50% less and its same quality just used, which wont effect you as long as you can use a damp rag. I spent over 3800$ to get my first ARS rack Shipping/duties/rack cost (US>canada) about 2 months ago i was able to buy 8 levels of the 7030 (no wheel base which i ordered for 280$ shipping and heat pannel) for 1500$ So i saved 2000$ and only missed out on 2 levels, Which was amazing deal Plus it came with a new in box herpstat 2 (redline edition) So its ALWAYS worth your time to skim over all classifieds and auctions on local forums over in the US

=)

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Def considering building a rack possibly when she outgrows her tub. I can't really afford to buy a rack ATM...I mean I COULD but I always like to keep money on the side in case of vet bills/food and such. I think I'll just stick with a tub for now and as she grows I can build a rack and all will be well :) The thing is I'm currently living with my mother and it was a huge stretch to get her to allow me to get my first snake, and now she really not overly happy about me getting a second. I think if I start building/buying a rack shes just gonna see that as MORE snakes coming into the house haha I 100% intend to take all the snakes with me when I move out, but all she cares is that she has to live with them now. Plus I have way too many pets as it is (in her eyes). I'm currently caring for two parakeets, a cardinal, a corn snake, a fish, and a cat in a small 1 bedroom appartment so I can kinda see why she wouldn't want me adding another 3 snakes to that list haha.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CORBIN911

EVEN if you dont like reptiles they are FUN, theres so much to look at and learn, the last 1 i went to, had baby kangaroo/hycinth mcaw/red pandas/all kinda lil fuzzie critters that you could play with. Theres spiders/bugs/geckos (obv) sometimes weird fish! and obv every supply youll need, beddings/THERMOSTATS/weigh scales anything and everything, you can make a day trip out of it, with a few friends, bcz time flies, look around ask to reserve your snake/s till end of day and pick them up when the show ends (so yout not lugging them around without heat)

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Ah stop! It sound like too much fun, I might just HAVE to go now lol Steering clear of the spiders though O.O

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RedCloud

Def considering building a rack possibly when she outgrows her tub. I can't really afford to buy a rack ATM...I mean I COULD but I always like to keep money on the side in case of vet bills/food and such. I think I'll just stick with a tub for now and as she grows I can build a rack and all will be well :) The thing is I'm currently living with my mother and it was a huge stretch to get her to allow me to get my first snake, and now she really not overly happy about me getting a second. I think if I start building/buying a rack shes just gonna see that as MORE snakes coming into the house haha I 100% intend to take all the snakes with me when I move out, but all she cares is that she has to live with them now. Plus I have way too many pets as it is (in her eyes). I'm currently caring for two parakeets, a cardinal, a corn snake, a fish, and a cat in a small 1 bedroom appartment so I can kinda see why she wouldn't want me adding another 3 snakes to that list haha.

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This is true! the tub will work perfect! 15$ house. just get a locking lid! and a thermostat, you spent 140$ on 100% perfect BP environment (minus substrate)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CORBIN911

This is true! the tub will work perfect! 15$ house. just get a locking lid! and a thermostat, you spent 140$ on 100% perfect BP environment (minus substrate)

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Yea I tallied it up and if I buy everything new, my total is $163 but hopefully I can save on the thermosat by getting it used. I have horrible luck finding used products though haha. I already have some aspen I use w/ my cornsnake, but its the "small animal" kind petco sells. Its 100% aspen, but its not as fine as shredded aspen. Would that be ok for a baby to be sitting on all day?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RedCloud

Yea I tallied it up and if I buy everything new, my total is $163 but hopefully I can save on the thermosat by getting it used. I have horrible luck finding used products though haha. I already have some aspen I use w/ my cornsnake, but its the "small animal" kind petco sells. Its 100% aspen, but its not as fine as shredded aspen. Would that be ok for a baby to be sitting on all day?

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It should be alright, depends how small you go! tbh most things you will buy wont be TOO too small roughly 300g+ at expo's unless you order'd diffrent. But you can always use paper tower, Thats currently what i use, and coconust husk (the cube stuff you break down in water) during shedding times, to help it be nice...I am considering trying to switch fully to cocohusk but a few of my pieds will not eat on it, no idea why. will coil wrap the rat, in an hour they guarding it, put them in empy tub with paper, instantly eat, so they will likely stay on paper