Killer Bee Fire? Ripped Off?

Hey all, I was looking for some opinions on this morph/situation. I was sold this beautiful little guy a few days ago in person from a very reputable reptile breeder/dealer as a Killer Bee Fire. The sales person was very adamant about the super pastel x spider x fire genes saying that if I bred this to a normal ball I would get all pastels. He also mentioned that he will get brighter as he ages alluding to it not being a Bumble Bee. I’m worried in my naivety I got talked into thinking this snake is more than it is. It doesn’t look as light as the other Killer Bee Fires, but closer to a Bumble Bee, Fire Bee (PastelxFirexSpider), or a Killer Bee (S.PastelxSpider). But they all look relatively similar to each other. I also payed $500 which in my understanding is a lot less than what Killer Bee Fires are going for. Even on their own website they have a Killer Bee for $750 and a Super Pastel for $500. I know the only true test would be to breed him out. Something seems a little fishy, and maybe someone has an idea of what to do.


LINKS
Bumble bee
Killer Bee
Fire Bee
Killer Bee Fire


http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...9/img_7400.jpg

http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...9/img_7395.jpg

http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...9/img_7390.jpg

Thats a fire bee - not a super. The black is much too jet to be a super. Just about every super pastel combo has the faded black markings, including killer fire bees.

I'd hate to say it, but I think you may have been had. Even if Thats a firebee, which I suspect it is, its a lower quality one, yet alone a killer fire bee.

That is a nice looking Fire Bee.

Not a Killer. Sorry.

i actually like the idea of having just a fire bee, to also make combos that dont have pastel. but then, OP paid for something else.

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Originally Posted by Pythonfriend

i actually like the idea of having just a fire bee, to also make combos that dont have pastel. but then, OP paid for something else.

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I do to, that is actually my current project. But I like mine less yellow more contrast.

I'm not going to say if it is or if it isn't because i'm not knowledgeable enough to know. However, I personally think that WOBP needs to put more examples of the morphs on their page because from what I seen they show the best examples.

Did the breeder offer a genetic guarantee?

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Originally Posted by bcr229

Did the breeder offer a genetic guarantee?

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I'm not sure; I will call today.


Is $500 to much for just a fire bee? I also think it's a let down that a forerunner of ball python genetics would mislead a customer like this. Is it inappropriate to say where I got it from? I don't want to slander the company but then again I think people should know.

And thank you all for your input!

Unless my prices are off lately, I'd say 500 is fair for a fire bee. Would've been a steal for a Killer Fire Bee. As others have suggested, this is a Fire Bee.

im not sure if you can name the company here. also it seems a bit too soon for that.

i would also give them the benefit of the doubt, mistakes like this can happen, especially with multiple helpers/employees and plenty of genetically diverse clutches to identify, sex, sort, house, feed, and sell.

contact them with pictures of the snake, linking this thread for them may also help them to understand. honestly, personally, i think i would be satisfied with a partial refund of somewhere between 100 or 200 dollars and would keep it. as the number of genes goes up, i see pastel contributing more and more to washing out or fading out the pattern, i like things to stay crisp, and if you pair this to lets say a lesser, an enchi and a black pastel female, i think its nice to also have a chance of getting the combos without pastel.

if its a reputable breeder, and when you can get him to understand the problem at hand, you should get options and should be able to negotiate something that is acceptable.

I also want to say, for the record, I don't think that they did this on purpose. I think he mixed up what snake he had, or the genes of this snake by mistake. Just looking for advice with what to do with the situation as I am unexperienced compared to you all! Thank you so much for your help. Ill update with what happens.

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Originally Posted by reptileexperts

Unless my prices are off lately, I'd say 500 is fair for a fire bee. Would've been a steal for a Killer Fire Bee. As others have suggested, this is a Fire Bee.

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I'm going to agree, and after looking at the examples of each morph on WoBP I'm also going with fire bee and not killer fire bee for your guy. I'd expect to pay a lot more than $500 for a four-gene male.

It definitely has fire pastel and spider. I don't think it's a super - the black is just too black. I disagree with the comment about it being low quality - I think that is quite a nice one, which could easily contribute to a false ID. The price seems pretty good for the 3 gene. I would probably contact the seller back and tell them the blacks are too dark and head markings too pronounced to be a killer and there is an overwhelming consensus in the community supporting that. See what they say - maybe they will over you 50 or 100 bucks back.

You have not been ripped off even if they decline, but it would be good to let us know the name of a reputable breeder who would mis-ID like this. If they're not 100% sure they should have told you it's a fire bee possible killer and that if it's a killer you're getting a wicked deal.

I'm a newbie here, and while I certainly can understand the frustration in being sold something that isn't what it claims to be, i'm still jealous. That is a gorgeous snake!

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Originally Posted by MrLang

You have not been ripped off even if they decline, but it would be good to let us know the name of a reputable breeder who would mis-ID like this. If they're not 100% sure they should have told you it's a fire bee possible killer and that if it's a killer you're getting a wicked deal.

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I'm waiting to hear back. I called them and they said that just because it doesn't look like it doesn't mean it isn't. They said the fire brings the black out and makes it darker, for example the SuperFly. They said they could possibly work something out if he bred out to be not the killerbee fire. So I emailed them with a link to the forum so they could see the snake. I don't want to say who it is until it's all said and done. They could have easily said the wrong thing, or something got mislabeled who knows.

umm, well, their arguments dont convince me. when i see the superfly, i see blushing to the point of getting whites within the black parts of the pattern and also on top of the head. there seems to be some confusion on their side.

It's definitely a nice Fire Bee, I wouldn't want to give him up! I think $500 is a GOOD price for the 3-gene snake. You still got a good deal for a really nice looking male :gj:. Honestly, I don't see a problem other than the fact that it was mislabeled, perhaps by accident.

I'd probably let it go.. As a baby, it was probably nice enough to be mistaken for a killer bee fire, so that's what he listed it as. Some breeders will round UP, and some will round DOWN :gj:.

Only ONE Pastel gene in there, so it's another vote for FireBee

Fire bee but not ripped off by any means. I think you got a good deal, he is pretty. If you bred him and ended up with all pastel morphs time after time I would be surprised. However, you would have gotten the deal of a century at $500 as well!:snake:

Something ain't right with this...I'd like to see the breeder chime in...

Obviously a Firebee. Here are sisters from last season around 1000g. The difference between Killer Firebee and Firebee is obvious.
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...lerandfire.jpg

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Originally Posted by Pythonfriend

umm, well, their arguments dont convince me. when i see the superfly, i see blushing to the point of getting whites within the black parts of the pattern and also on top of the head. there seems to be some confusion on their side.

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Did someone say Superfly? This is a brother to the two girls above.

http://s1231.photobucket.com/user/Fa...uperfly%20Male

With what you've told us so far, you've been ripped off, price is irrelevant. If you were sold the animal as being a killer bee fire and that is genetically what it is not, price doesn't matter and neither does how nice of a firebee it is. You were not sold what you were told you were getting and there is a huge difference in breeding power between the two.

I would say that while you might not have been 'ripped off' in terms of price, you definitely were mislead. It doesn't matter if it was a good price, you didn't get what you paid for. From looking around on here and WOBP, that lacks a lot of the killer traits, and I don't really see how they could stretch it as a killer when it clearly isn't. They should either give you a partial refund, or replace the snake with an actual killer fire bee.

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Originally Posted by rascal_rascal_99

With what you've told us so far, you've been ripped off, price is irrelevant. If you were sold the animal as being a killer bee fire and that is genetically what it is not, price doesn't matter and neither does how nice of a firebee it is. You were not sold what you were told you were getting and there is a huge difference in breeding power between the two.

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My thoughts exactly. Price should be taken out of the equation.

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Originally Posted by sho220

Something ain't right with this...I'd like to see the breeder chime in...

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Still nothing back from the breeder. I'm going to try emailing them again other than that not sure what to do.

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Originally Posted by Adroit

Still nothing back from the breeder. I'm going to try emailing them again other than that not sure what to do.

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I would send another email telling them to get back with you and explain what's going on or you're gonna drop their name in this thread...that may get their attention...

Just an update -

The breeder got back to me, said if I had a big issue with the snake I could just bring him back for a refund. They said they offered a genetic guarantee. Initially I was worried when I talked to them on the phone and they said they would work something out. Since I did not have it in writing I was worried they could just say a year from now yea sorry we can't help ya bud. I seemed to frustrate them, "Giving you a good deal turned out to be more hassle than its worth" so sorry guys if your reading this.

Thanks for your input and help everybody