BP cage critique

I recently moved my BP to a new tank that I put together.
- 200gal glass tank ($75 craigslist)
- drift wood collected from beach then scrubbed/baked for very long time.
- forest floor cypress mulch
- chipped marble (white rocks)
the temps and humidity are perfect and being measured by multiple devices constantly.
85-90F on hot side & ~70F on cool side & 50-55RH
There is a UTH and heat lamp on the left half.
the grass is a temporary experiment.
My goal for the tank was mainly a landscaping project that would look good, but i want it to be safe for my BP (Don Carlos).
So is it safe, is it lacking any necessary amenities?
Any advice/tips would be greatly appreciated.

If you post a pic of the setup then it'll be a help.

It seems okay, I'd just be worried about the marble catching on him or cutting him. I have only recently got into keeping BP's so this is all conjecture.

This sounds like a cool/fun display project. It would be more appreciated and better critiqued with some pics though. ;)

200gal is huge for a BP. But if it's gonna be a landscaping project like you want it to be and you have a ton of coverage(large leaves and the like for him to hide under), I don't see a problem with it.

I'd be weary of the chipped marble as well and get the coolside temp closer to the 78-82 range.

Please post a picture

I took the picture and put it on the computer and everything this morning, just forgot to upload hahah.
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...140129_004.jpg

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Originally Posted by Pyrate81

This sounds like a cool/fun display project. It would be more appreciated and better critiqued with some pics though. ;)

200gal is huge for a BP. But if it's gonna be a landscaping project like you want it to be and you have a ton of coverage(large leaves and the like for him to hide under), I don't see a problem with it.

I'd be weary of the chipped marble as well and get the coolside temp closer to the 78-82 range.

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Now that i have posted a pic, is the level of ground cover way too little for him to feel safe?
I was also worried about the marble, because of scratching scales. If his scales were hurt how would i know/ what to look for?
Also is it possible for him to ingest a small rock and lead to intestinal compaction?

also any suggestion on live plants for the tank/ toxic plants to stay away from?
Everywhere i look people say no to live plants because the snake kills them, and go with the damn synthetic/silk ones.
!! I HATE SYNTHETIC PLANTS !!

You are where I wanted to be years ago. Your snake will CRUSH any live plants you put in there and that is way too huge for a ball.

also................... Hides??

Yeah, the lack of hides is a huge issue!

It is possible he could swallow a small rock whilst feeding, but I'd think if it was big enough he would realise and spit it out. Once again, I am new to this, so don't take what I say as the gospel truth...

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

You are where I wanted to be years ago. Your snake will CRUSH any live plants you put in there and that is way too huge for a ball.

also................... Hides??

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As far as the crushed plants, under the layer of marble there is a brick boxed planter bed, so that if/when the plants are crushed i can simply transplant somthing else in.
Is the excess size of the tank detrimental to the PB, or just wasteful?
So the hides are kind of hidden, and the hot hide is there until he out grows it.
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file..._002_thumb.jpg
But the cold hide was a last minute thing and i will probably move/ get a better one that can be under the rockes and has a smaller opening.
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file..._004_thumb.jpg

Ball pythons like lots and lots of cover/hiding places. With that said, if you can achieve this aesthetically, awesome. But right now your enclosure isn't suited for a ball python.

Also, where is your UTH placed? If it's on the bottom, its completely useless because there's too much substrate so the heat will never pass through.

I noticed you only have a temp gun. What's measuring your ambient temps? I'd invest in a acurite thermometer. The ambient temp in the tank should be around 78-82 and shouldn't dip below 75.

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Yeah, I worry about him eating a little substrate or in my case the possible rock, so ever since i got him hes been fed in a separate & clean cage.
I have heard people recommend a seperate cage so that he doesnt mistake me for food, and so that he knows whats up when the feeding cage comes out.

Great start to an eventual awesome setup.

Thoughts/recomendations:

1. Black out sides and back. Black construction paper or aquarium background or something cool I don't know about. Your preference.

2. Make the right side more like the left. If you set up the whole thing like a "jungle" and give him areas large/small enough for him to snuggle into, those areas can be your hides, IMO.

3. If you do want to go with stone; large, round, smooth river rock is probably the way to go.

4. Can't help you with plants.

5. IMO: 200gal might be excessive, a 125 would probably be more managable. However, I don't think this setup will be too big for a single BP if it is done right. As much as they like small, confined spaces, they do live in large forests/jungles. This has the potential to be a great display enclosure and an example of "out-of-the-tub" thinking.

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Originally Posted by student117

As far as the crushed plants, under the layer of marble there is a brick boxed planter bed, so that if/when the plants are crushed i can simply transplant somthing else in.
Is the excess size of the tank detrimental to the PB, or just wasteful?
So the hides are kind of hidden, and the hot hide is there until he out grows it.
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file..._002_thumb.jpg
But the cold hide was a last minute thing and i will probably move/ get a better one that can be under the rockes and has a smaller opening.
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file..._004_thumb.jpg

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Too big a tank can be intimidating and stressful to a Ball, it better that the tank is smaller if the truth be told.
I never even noticed the hides in the first pic, they look quite good! AS for the cold one, it might be a bit too open for him, as it is right next to the glass and the light will be coming in I assume.

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Originally Posted by student117

Is the excess size of the tank detrimental to the PB, or just wasteful?

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If you clutter it up enough so he feels secure, it won't be detrimental. He'll probably find a couple of places he likes and spend most of his time there.

He doesn't really need all that space, though. I guess IMO the answer is closer to wasteful than detrimental, but if you set it up correctly so he has what he needs and you like how it looks that'll be all that matters.

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Originally Posted by Misha

Ball pythons like lots and lots of cover/hiding places. With that said, if you can achieve this aesthetically, awesome. But right now your enclosure isn't suited for a ball python.

Also, where is your UTH placed? If it's on the bottom, its completely useless because there's too much substrate so the heat will never pass through.



Sent using Tapatalk

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Not to worry,
The UTH is 3feet long and regulated by a rheostat and inside the tank with a thick layer of substrate on top.
The .25" top surface of the substrate has the rheostat probe monitoring temp and theres another temp probe next to it that outputs max&min temperatures for the last 7 days. in addition, i have one of those infrared laser temp guns that i read the substrate surface temp with to make sure everything is consistent.

You are totally correct more hiding places is necessary, but like you said it will be hard to achieve an aesthetically pleasing look.
But it must be done!
I tried looking around on the forum for tank gallery or something but didnt see one, could any one point me in the right direction?
I need more landscape/hiding spot ideas.

Well, everyone has pretty much said it :P

I think (if you are interested) that this would be much more suited for a more arboreal type of snake! However, I don't think it is 'too large' - if, like others have mentioned, you have enough security. I think an adult ball python would utilize this tank, if given the chance.
Maybe not all BPs... but some for sure. Mine definitely utilizes his (although not nearly the same size as yours - but mine is only 6 months old).

I hope the rest of your project goes smoothly! It is a really creative, exciting idea. I think the snake will appreciate a bit of the outdoors, even if s/he crushes it a bit ;)

On a side note, I would look into the species of plants that are safe for BPs - maybe something more tropical, and sturdy... if that's even possible.


P.S. As for hides, I would invest in some rock hides that you can purchase from a pet store. Sometimes I find really good ones that are actually for aquariums. The last one I got was supposed to be a cave for cichlids!

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Originally Posted by student117

could any one point me in the right direction?
I need more landscape/hiding spot ideas.

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Here's a good diy on terrariums:
http://bamboozoo.weebly.com/diy-real...ackground.html

I'm sure you can apply the concept to hides and a lot more. Also, check out the DYI part of this forum and search for what people have done in the past.

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Originally Posted by student117

Not to worry,
The UTH is 3feet long and regulated by a rheostat and inside the tank with a thick layer of substrate on top.
The .25" top surface of the substrate has the rheostat probe monitoring temp and theres another temp probe next to it that outputs max&min temperatures for the last 7 days. in addition, i have one of those infrared laser temp guns that i read the substrate surface temp with to make sure everything is consistent.

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Inside the tank is a totall bad idea for one. Second you should know ball pythons burrow so what is the actual temperature of the heat mat itself? I assume you are measuring the surface temps of your sbrstrate to between 90 and 95 degrees, this should put you mat about 105 to 110. Either way your surface temps are either too low or your mat is waiting to brun your snake. Without any air flow around it, it is a huge worry fot you and us as well.

To be honest if I were you and were setting up that tank for a bp I would strip down everything you have done to the clear glass and start all over. I would start by putting the uth where it belongs which is UNDER the tank. Then I would put an inch of substrate down, place all of my hides all over the entire enclosure, cover all of that with more substrate while leaving the openings to the hides open and clear. Then I would start to decorate the top of it all with pieces of drift wood and all of that fun stuff and place multiple water bowls around the tank only because of how large it is. I am not sure of the dimensions of that tank or anything so for the hides place them about 8" to a foot apart all over the entire floor of the enclosure. Also I would use multiple UTH each set to a different temp so that the tank has a thermo variation throughout the entire length. In total I would most likely end up spending about $400-500 just to set that up, that is including the thermostats, notice the multiple used there, and that is just for one single snake. In the end I would find that the snake would only be using a small area somewhere in the middle and not leaving that area and have a ton of wasted space. Also cleaning time is going to be horrid for you... Think about that fully. Taking every single tiny thing out of there and replacing all of that bedding every time. Spot cleaning something that large will be very hard because of the hides being under the substrate. If they defecate in one of them then you have to dig it out and then place it back where it was. That is a lot of work. Also I would place thermometers every 8 inches and at 3 different levels at each spot. So at the edge there would be one down on the substrate, one a few inches above that, and one about half way up the tank and that is not counting the ones needed in each hide to make sure that the heat in that enclosed space does not spike to high and cook my snake.

Holy moly that's a huge tank! Do I think it's possible to keep a bp in a huge tank yes, do I think it would be easy, no. Heating that sucker is going to be a pain! High 80s low 90s on the warm side, which I would make 2/3rds of that tank, and mid 70s on the cool side (I prefer never going under 75). If you can keep those temps, the snake should be fine as long as you give him hides. Temps are really hard to keep high enough, and stable enough in a tank.

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

Inside the tank is a totall bad idea for one. Second you should know ball pythons burrow so what is the actual temperature of the heat mat itself? I assume you are measuring the surface temps of your sbrstrate to between 90 and 95 degrees, this should put you mat about 105 to 110. Either way your surface temps are either too low or your mat is waiting to brun your snake. Without any air flow around it, it is a huge worry fot you and us as well.

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I have heard they can burrow but i have never seen mine burrow in cypress mulch.
The mat operates at a max temperature of 100f and theres like 2-3" of substrate inbetween the snake, and my rheostat shuts off power when the temperature reaches 90-93f ~.25" under the surface. The max temps of the ground in his hide this week ranged from 90-93f, im not worried about burning my snake.
Unless he decides to burrow all the sudden.

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Originally Posted by student117

im not worried about burning my snake.
Unless he decides to burrow all the sudden.

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He will almost assuredly decide to burrow at some point.

Assuming he burrows and gets to the mat and assuming the mat has reached its maximum temperature of 100F.
Will that burn him?

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Originally Posted by student117

Assuming he burrows and gets to the mat and assuming the mat has reached its maximum temperature of 100F.
Will that burn him?

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There is no assuming here at all. It will happen. Also keep in mind that a rheostat does not monitor the temp at all it only controls the amount of electricity delivered to the device it is hooked up to. With that said if it gets warmer where you are then the rheostat does you no good at all. It will over heat and that can very well kill your animal. I am all for the set up but it does need to be done correctly and honestly the way you have it is not correct at all.

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Originally Posted by T&C Exotics

There is no assuming here at all. It will happen. Also keep in mind that a rheostat does not monitor the temp at all it only controls the amount of electricity delivered to the device it is hooked up to. With that said if it gets warmer where you are then the rheostat does you no good at all. It will over heat and that can very well kill your animal. I am all for the set up but it does need to be done correctly and honestly the way you have it is not correct at all.

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What i actually have is a thermostat not a rheostat, I was mistaken before. So not only is the mat hooked up to a thermostat, but the maximum temperature that mat can achieve is 100F.
So is 100F really that dangerous, will it burn his scales?

It will not burn the scales but it could over heat the animal still.

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Originally Posted by student117

Assuming he burrows and gets to the mat and assuming the mat has reached its maximum temperature of 100F.
Will that burn him?

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You asked for responses on a bad idea, you can do what you want but just keep one thing in mind with the should and could on a heat source:
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h1...ps54047f52.jpg

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

You asked for responses on a bad idea, you can do what you want but just keep one thing in mind with the should and could on a heat source:
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h1...ps54047f52.jpg

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Exactly this right here. Just because something may not go wrong or should not go wrong does not mean it will not go wrong. I have in the past had issues with thermostats going out or with a probe getting moved... Either of those causes the heat tape to go up in temp which leads to cooked snake.