Crazy Albino _ 2013

I have 'popped in' from time to time, however, not posted for quite a while so here's something to get y'all chatting.

Produced a few nice Albino kids for the late 2013 Season (October / November hatching) so they are still youngsters & I will provide some photo's for comparision.

However, the main point of this Thread is to gather opinions on one, particular, Albino & the details are as follows:-

Pairing.

ALBINO x ALBINO

Both animals brought into the Collection in December 2004 (Yup, I was surprised @ how time flies).

The breeding line is from Steve & Karen Osborne (Professional Breeders).

The original 100% hetero Albino parents were Imported into the U.K. wayyyy back by a good friend & he produced one of the 1st visual Albino here which he continues to produce from @ this time.

Record keeping is not his forte, therefore, the obvious option of researching the line from him is not going to come to the desired conclusion.

The 2004 of ALBINO were bred for the 1st time in 2011 & one of the hatchlings presented with a particularly unusual look. This male hatchling, although obviously different, went to a good friend as an Albino (an attractive but I did not presume to suggest anything else).

However, the same twosome were paired up again in 2013 & Yes, another unusual Albino produced - also Male.

Therefore, although it is not significant in of itself to produce an occasional 'different' looking Bino; the fact that this event has repeated itself is rather curious.........

Let me know what your thoughts are as it's quite a brain teaser.

Regards. Lex

Any pictures of the crazy albino.

Pictures please

Some of the 2013 ALBINO's for comparision.

http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/...ps1ec887a5.jpg

http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/...ps9c470d22.jpg

http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/...ps83830893.jpg

http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/...ps8f3b160e.jpg

CRAZY ALBINO

http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/...ps6039865b.jpg

Lex

Pretty wild, That 13113 female also looks like she could be an albino black pastel, perhaps you've got some of those genes floating around in your gene pool, also the large white spot on the top of the head puts me in mind of the vanillas. Certainly looks like something that's worth working with.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MarkS

Pretty wild, That 13113 female also looks like she could be an albino black pastel, perhaps you've got some of those genes floating around in your gene pool, also the large white spot on the top of the head puts me in mind of the vanillas. Certainly looks like something that's worth working with.

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Female 13113 is an Albino Black Pastel (Sired by Albino Black Pewter x 100% hetero Albino).

The other Albino photo's are only for comparision of variability within the type.

The Crazy Albino is the curious one as sired by Albino x Albino. Interesting perspective on the Vanilla gene.......

Cheers. Lex

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lexcorn

CRAZY ALBINO

http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/...ps6039865b.jpg

Lex

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Looks like an albino tiger to me. I would pair the same two next season and prove out that it was not an incubation issue. Is the hatchling a male or female? Pictures of the parents? Has the female ever been with another male, if so what is the list of males she has been with.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ladybugzcrunch

Looks like an albino tiger to me. I would pair the same two next season and prove out that it was not an incubation issue. Is the hatchling a male or female? Pictures of the parents? Has the female ever been with another male, if so what is the list of males she has been with.

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All good questions.

Both parents have, already, produced a similar hatchling 2011. Thus, my interest in posting this Thread - it's obviously not just a fluke / incubation issue.

The female Albino has only been paired with this male Albino.

Both the 2011 hatchling & the 2013 hatchling are male gender.

Here is 2011 Edition:

http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/...ps2b9c7f86.jpg

Lex

I'm working on a chocolate albino project that I hope might look something like that. Maybe also breed the male to a chocolate or at least some non albino to see if you can pick out some increasing black gene.

That 13113 female is a SMOKING girl:gj::gj:

13105 male does have a funky look to him.
I would say that it would be well worth holding him back and breeding to mom just to see what happens.
My curiosity is why have the two only been male?
Maybe its just too early for me but it looks like its reducing the amount of white on the albino.
I know it looks familiar to me but I cant remember where I saw something like this.

This was my first though, though I know an Orange Dream is not recessive.
http://www.worldofballpythons.com/mo...-orange-dream/

I like that orange dream idea. Looks fairly similar to me.

Couple of questions. Are the parents related? I'm assuming yes since you stated that the originals were hets imported from Professional breeders. Interesting side note. Many years ago when there was a rash of 'paradox albinos' being hatched and nobody really could figure out what was going on. It was discovered that all of the paradox animals (at that time) could be traced back to founding animals bought from professional breeders. I'm not sure that has anything to do with this, I just thought it was an interesting bit of trivia. Next question, how many total hatchlings have been produced by this pair of albinos? I'm just wondering what the percentage of normal albinos to crazy albinos is. Probably too small of a sample size to infer whether or not this is a hidden recessive trait but it might be worth thinking about.

I LOVE the 2011 edition, that blushing is so bizarre! Is there any chance of getting a grown-up pic of him?

Sticken with tiger
http://www.worldofballpythons.com/mo...enetic-banded/

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ladybugzcrunch

Sticken with tiger
http://www.worldofballpythons.com/mo...enetic-banded/

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Wow i saw tiger and automatically though desert enchi albino but am albino tiger is completly different genetics. So what would and albino tiger (desert,enchi) be called

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk 2

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ladybugzcrunch

Sticken with tiger
http://www.worldofballpythons.com/mo...enetic-banded/

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Not familiar with the tigers but I can see that one too.

Sorry, I got it backwards. Black in a normal is white in an albino and the yellow in an albino is the area between the black. So the non albino version of this would have a very reduced black pattern (not the expanded black pattern of a chocolate). Maybe it's some sort of recessive reduced pattern mutation (assuming you consider the back in a normal to be the pattern, apparently some people consider the lighter colors in a normal to be the pattern).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

I'm working on a chocolate albino project that I hope might look something like that. Maybe also breed the male to a chocolate or at least some non albino to see if you can pick out some increasing black gene.

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Good thinkin'............

And with that I reviewed 'Hold Back' progeny that has been sired by the same Albino male that produced the two 'Crazy Albino'.

I present my findings later in this thread.

Regards. Lex

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

That 13113 female is a SMOKING girl:gj::gj:

13105 male does have a funky look to him.
I would say that it would be well worth holding him back and breeding to mom just to see what happens.
My curiosity is why have the two only been male?
Maybe its just too early for me but it looks like its reducing the amount of white on the albino.
I know it looks familiar to me but I cant remember where I saw something like this.

This was my first though, though I know an Orange Dream is not recessive.
http://www.worldofballpythons.com/mo...-orange-dream/

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Yup, Orange Dream does look like it's worthy of consideration as the Sire always presented with a clean Lemon vis-a-vis white as opposed to the more 'banana' yellow of the female.

No, not THE Banana just the colouration of the good old foodstuff ;)

Thanks for your good comments on Female 13113 - she is rather a looker.

Lex

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MarkS

I like that orange dream idea. Looks fairly similar to me.

Couple of questions. Are the parents related? I'm assuming yes since you stated that the originals were hets imported from Professional breeders. Interesting side note. Many years ago when there was a rash of 'paradox albinos' being hatched and nobody really could figure out what was going on. It was discovered that all of the paradox animals (at that time) could be traced back to founding animals bought from professional breeders. I'm not sure that has anything to do with this, I just thought it was an interesting bit of trivia. Next question, how many total hatchlings have been produced by this pair of albinos? I'm just wondering what the percentage of normal albinos to crazy albinos is. Probably too small of a sample size to infer whether or not this is a hidden recessive trait but it might be worth thinking about.

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Thanks for that interesting feedback on the Paradox Albino.

I do have such a gal, however, I did not breed her myself but rather a good friend did some years back - the lineage is from Jeremy Stone.

A great animal to own, but, she's only topping 1200 gram @ over 5 years of age, therefore, I wonder if she will ever make breeding size.

I did respond to your questions & listed the limited number of progeny that the Albino male has produced. However, the Forum (in it's wisdom) logged me out & I'm not going over it again!

Therefore, I shall say that I am pretty much convinced that 'Ladybugzcrunch' has suggested the true nature of the beast & I shall provide my reasons for you to dissect :D

Lex

ALBINO TIGER (AKA ALBINO GENETIC BANDED).

O.K. as I'm not much for plucking a photo out of WOBP & saying "Hey Folks, I've produced one of these" without @ least providing some background information.........

Here goes.........

After many hours of studying BP photo's & with my amazing powers of deduction I conclude that the 'Crazy Albino' is, indeed, Albino Tiger (aka Albino Genetic Banded).

No, I have not jumped to conclusions - reasons as follows:-

Albino (recessive) Genetic Banded (Dominant) & a 'dead ringer' for my boy here _ http://www.worldofballpythons.com/mo...enetic-banded/

IF the 'Crazy Albino' is an Albino Tiger then it follows that one of the parents should, also, be an Albino Genetic Banded.

ALBINO 'Sly' x PIEBALD 'Smilie' _ 2012 pairing:

http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/...psbca64505.jpg

Now, IF the sire is GB then it stands to reason that he should be able to produce other progeny that present with this visual trait.

Therefore, further evidence is required..........

Lex

Now, some of the double hetero kids from the (let's just say for now) ALBINO TIGER sire 'Sly'

double hetero Albino + Piebald Male 12166

http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/...ps2b8be957.jpg

O.K. he's a Ringer, so that may have altered the dorsal pattern.

double hetero Albino + Piebald Female 12161

http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/...ps0e3b410e.jpg

double hetero Albino + Piebald Male 12163

http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/...male_Nov12.jpg

Yeah, younger photo but you get the idea.

Now, I don't know about you, but, my idea of 'banding' is from dorsal to lateral & although these animals display a lack of 'alien eyes' & large areas of stripe rather than banding, it would appear to be a variable result so let's just say they are @ this time GB.

O.K. to further confuse y'all (& me) there is some difference between Ralph Davis interpretation of banding _ http://www.ralphdavisreptiles.com/co.../banded_02.jpg

World of Ball Pythons _ http://www.worldofballpythons.com/mo...enetic-banded/

& Ball Python Morphs Picture Gallery _ http://imageevent.com/livingartrepti...=0&w=1&s=0&z=9

Which not only states that Genetic 'Tiger' is co-dominant, but, also there is a Super form Super Genetic 'Tiger' _ http://imageevent.com/livingartrepti...=0&w=1&s=0&z=9

..........and just when we think it all makes sense........ there's BLADE (also co-dominant) _ http://www.worldofballpythons.com/morphs/blade/



Let's say then that the 'Crazy Albino' is an ALBINO TIGER (good work there "Ladybugzcrunch") but it needed some clarification.

Let's see what 'Sly' produces for us this Season :D

Now, dissection begineth :snake:

Lex

Neat albinos. Crazy. As they say : )

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lexcorn

Now, some of the double hetero kids from the (let's just say for now) ALBINO TIGER sire 'Sly'

double hetero Albino + Piebald Male 12166

http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/...ps2b8be957.jpg

O.K. he's a Ringer, so that may have altered the dorsal pattern.

double hetero Albino + Piebald Female 12161

http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/...ps0e3b410e.jpg

double hetero Albino + Piebald Male 12163

http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/...male_Nov12.jpg

Yeah, younger photo but you get the idea.

Now, I don't know about you, but, my idea of 'banding' is from dorsal to lateral & although these animals display a lack of 'alien eyes' & large areas of stripe rather than banding, it would appear to be a variable result so let's just say they are @ this time GB.

O.K. to further confuse y'all (& me) there is some difference between Ralph Davis interpretation of banding _ http://www.ralphdavisreptiles.com/co.../banded_02.jpg

World of Ball Pythons _ http://www.worldofballpythons.com/mo...enetic-banded/

& Ball Python Morphs Picture Gallery _ http://imageevent.com/livingartrepti...=0&w=1&s=0&z=9

Which not only states that Genetic 'Tiger' is co-dominant, but, also there is a Super form Super Genetic 'Tiger' _ http://imageevent.com/livingartrepti...=0&w=1&s=0&z=9

..........and just when we think it all makes sense........ there's BLADE (also co-dominant) _ http://www.worldofballpythons.com/morphs/blade/



Let's say then that the 'Crazy Albino' is an ALBINO TIGER (good work there "Ladybugzcrunch") but it needed some clarification.

Let's see what 'Sly' produces for us this Season :D

Now, dissection begineth :snake:

Lex

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Confirmed the sire is genetic banded, case closed, I win. NOW please send me my prize! I will take any one of those gems.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ladybugzcrunch

Confirmed the sire is genetic banded, case closed, I win. NOW please send me my prize! I will take any one of those gems.

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Here you go..........................:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h1...ps90e1d4e8.png

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Robyn@SYR

Neat albinos. Crazy. As they say : )

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Thanks,

It's been an enjoyable journey, thanks to you 'guys' & those nearer to home who have assisted with responding to my thread.

There have been a few other suggestions, however, considering the progeny that have, already, been produced I do think that we have 'nailed it' :D

Regards. Lex

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ladybugzcrunch

Confirmed the sire is genetic banded, case closed, I win. NOW please send me my prize! I will take any one of those gems.

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hehehe.........

Like I said, thanks to you for pointing me in the right direction ;)

Confirmation has been provided by the fact that a duplicate animal has been produced each time with the same pairing &, also, non-albino progeny from this Sire present with GB.

Now, as for the prize - that could be a little difficult!

The interesting news is that I will see the original 2011 male next week, therefore, I shall up-date this thread with further information.

Regards. Lex

Check out Sean's reduced clowns at Exotics by Nature:

http://www.exoticsbynature.com/colle...Pythons&id=15#

I saw a post from him a while back where I think he indicated there is a 2nd gene that makes them so reduced. Forget if he named it. Whatever it is I really like it in both of your collections.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

Check out Sean's reduced clowns at Exotics by Nature:

http://www.exoticsbynature.com/colle...Pythons&id=15#

I saw a post from him a while back where I think he indicated there is a 2nd gene that makes them so reduced. Forget if he named it. Whatever it is I really like it in both of your collections.

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Hey,

Thanks for making me simply envious of the Reduced Clowns that they produce :D

From what I can gather they are saying it too is Genetic Banded influence; term they use is 'blade'. The Clown Super Reduced is what they believe to be the Super form of 'blade' (i.e. Super Genetic Banded).

So, that's an interesting piece of additional information that is, already, in progress with our Clown x VPI Axanthic 2014 pairing.

The Clown male is not reduced pattern, but, he is also not with a complex pattern. The VPI Axanthic has been in-line for this pairing for some years as she presents with quite an unusual pattern (possibly Banded) & although the desired result is Axanthic Clown - I hope that some of the neonates are as well marked as the Dam.

Photo's of each animal would be better posted in a new thread perhaps?

Lex

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lexcorn

hehehe.........

Like I said, thanks to you for pointing me in the right direction ;)

Confirmation has been provided by the fact that a duplicate animal has been produced each time with the same pairing &, also, non-albino progeny from this Sire present with GB.

Now, as for the prize - that could be a little difficult!

The interesting news is that I will see the original 2011 male next week, therefore, I shall up-date this thread with further information.

Regards. Lex

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Very true I just noticed you were in the UK lol.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Badgemash

I LOVE the 2011 edition, that blushing is so bizarre! Is there any chance of getting a grown-up pic of him?

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Thanks for your comments.

Will be in the position to post an up-date next week ;)

Cheers.Lex

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ladybugzcrunch

Very true I just noticed you were in the UK lol.

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Yeah,

Flying snake comes to mind & I haven't produced one yet :D

Lex

Up-date photograph of the original Albino Tiger - the mature example as requested:

http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/...ps7603ebe8.jpg

Cheers. Lex

Dope! Really like the pattern, so its genetic or no?

Do you mean is it a gene that they have isolated and proven? yes.