Pastel ball has wobble

New pastel female has full body wobble. She is extremely active, shows no signs of RI or respiratory distress. Eats fine. She just... wobbles all the time. Is this a by product of her coming from a spider parentage?

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It is not from having a spider parent. The wobble is attached to/is the spider gene. So if it doesn't have the spider gene, its not a genetic wobble

If she wobbles, it's most likely a neurological issue. It could be temperature related or an incubation error.

Ok well the male has it as well and they both are unbalanced as they move kind of wobbling back and forth, not just the head, but the whole body does this... I haven't held them too much yet, but the male was honestly rather week in his grip..

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Sounds like an incubation issue to me, if two babies from the same clutch/incubator are doing it.

What are the temps in their cages and how are you measuring them? What are you using to heat them and how are you controlling it (light, heat pad, heat tape, dimmer, thermostat etc.)?

My firefly has a slight side to side wobble while feeding.

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Originally Posted by satomi325

It is not from having a spider parent. The wobble is attached to/is the spider gene. So if it doesn't have the spider gene, its not a genetic wobble

If she wobbles, it's most likely a neurological issue. It could be temperature related or an incubation error.

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X2 I've never heard of a BP carrying the "spider wobble" without the spider gene attached. :/ Attach a vid if you have a YouTube.

Do you have them on pine substrate, or the previous owner? The toxins in pine can cause permanent neurological problems.

All pine bedding is kiln dried.
Kiln dried pine is safe to use on reptiles.

My bet is that the two snakes have a wobble due to an temp spike during incubation since both of them have it.

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Originally Posted by satomi325

All pine bedding is kiln dried.
Kiln dried pine is safe to use on reptiles.

My bet is that the two snakes have a wobble due to an temp spike during incubation since both of them have it.

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Are you sure all pine bedding is kiln dried? Just the other day I read a thread saying someone had a different substrate, then switched to pine and there snake starting having a lot of neurological problems, I don't have any personal experience with this though becauseI would not want to risk it.

There are several large reputable breeders who have been keeping their snakes on pine for 10+ years with no ill effect.
All processed wood beddings are kiln dried.

Aspen bedding, using a UTH, with a low setting on a heat lamp. I don't know if they carry spider gene or not, I have contacted breeder to find out info on breeding,incubation,husbandry, etc. I asked at convention but it was so noisy. He was a good rep with my trusted breeders, so I felt confident with my purchase.

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Sounds like Nero damage. This could come from a number of different sources including toxins and heat spikes (both during incubation and after). Although it's very unlikely since it doesn't sound like they are stargazing this could also be ibd. Or it could be a result of parasite loads. Either way I hope that the both of them are quarantined well away from any other reptiles you may have. I'd be talking to the breeder about this right away. You also may want to have them examined by a vet to rule out parasites.

Spider is a gene that is visually expressed if present, so this is not related to the spider wobble. What are your hot temps and is there anything that could have caused a heat spike? The fact that you say the wobble is affecting the whole body and the male seems weak makes me suspect neurolugical damage from getting too hot.

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Originally Posted by robadob143

Aspen bedding, using a UTH, with a low setting on a heat lamp. I don't know if they carry spider gene or not, I have contacted breeder to find out info on breeding,incubation,husbandry, etc. I asked at convention but it was so noisy. He was a good rep with my trusted breeders, so I felt confident with my purchase.

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UTH? With or without a thermostat? Heat lamp on a low setting, what does that even mean? No heat source should be without a thermostat. What is your surface temperature on the hot side, what are your ambient temps, and what are you using to measure these temps. I agree its likely heat related.

Ok. Breeder has agreed to swap them out for a different pair, or money back. I chose to get a different pair. Yes both are quarantined. Breeder comes highly recommended. Feel it was just a oversight. Thanks all for info. We shall see!

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Originally Posted by satomi325

There are several large reputable breeders who have been keeping their snakes on pine for 10+ years with no ill effect.
All processed wood beddings are kiln dried.

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Ok thanks, I must have been ill informed.

I've not heard of pine causing issues, but I do have a carpet python with a wobble where the previous owner kept it on ceder chips. Poor thing is lucky to be alive, ceder is really toxic.

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Originally Posted by kylearmbar

Ok thanks, I must have been ill informed.

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No worries.
It's just a live rumor that keeps circulating all pet communities that use wood bedding.

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Originally Posted by MarkS

I've not heard of pine causing issues, but I do have a carpet python with a wobble where the previous owner kept it on ceder chips. Poor thing is lucky to be alive, ceder is really toxic.

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I've never really been sure just how true this is. Back in the 90's before the Internet was around to tell me how dangerous ceder is I used ceder mulch in all my cages. I kept geckos, boids of all sorts and a ton of colubrids on it for years and never once had a single problem that could be attributed to using it. In Fact I knew dozens of keepers that used it for reptiles of all kinds and none of them had any problems either. I no longer use it at all though. Better safe then sorry. But I'm wondering just how much of the dangerous toxins that ceder has actually survive the process of kiln drying.

Well if it smells like a ceder chest it's probably pretty toxic. The reason ceder used to be so popular for furniture (especially storage chests, armours or drawers) is because it contains a natural insecticide that will kill clothing moths and other fabric munching bugs. I used to use it a lot on rodent cages and never really noticed a problem either but when I got this carpet python she had some really bad neurological issues (head flipping around all over the place, she could barely eat) and the cage she came in contained a deep layer of ceder chips. All the reseach I could find pointed at that being the problem. After about 8 years in my care she's much better, but still has a bit of a head quaver.

Yea I've never heard anything good coming from ceder in habitats. I'm learning as I go as well. So I thank everyone for all the helpful tips too.

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Originally Posted by MarkS

Well if it smells like a ceder chest it's probably pretty toxic. The reason ceder used to be so popular for furniture (especially storage chests, armours or drawers) is because it contains a natural insecticide that will kill clothing moths and other fabric munching bugs. I used to use it a lot on rodent cages and never really noticed a problem either but when I got this carpet python she had some really bad neurological issues (head flipping around all over the place, she could barely eat) and the cage she came in contained a deep layer of ceder chips. All the reseach I could find pointed at that being the problem. After about 8 years in my care she's much better, but still has a bit of a head quaver.

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I'm glad to hear that your carpet has recovered for the most part. And I do agree that it is certainly possible that the cause may have been the toxins it was exposed to from the ceder bedding. The science regarding why pets should not be kept on ceder bedding is perfectly sound, and I would never knowing what I now do that people use it for reptiles. It was mearly an observation on my part because my experience does not line up with everything I've read regarding using it.

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Originally Posted by eatgoodfood

UTH? With or without a thermostat? Heat lamp on a low setting, what does that even mean? No heat source should be without a thermostat. What is your surface temperature on the hot side, what are your ambient temps, and what are you using to measure these temps. I agree its likely heat related.

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Id like to know these ^^^ things as well.

OP, Its good that you have a good breeder that is going to swap them for you, but if there is an issue with your husbandry the problem could arise again.

I think the issue here is that people keep questioning my husbandry. This has been a problem from the day after I received the snakes people. Not like I've had them a month.
*Update*
The female has eaten, and is very active at night and grips well when held.
The male is active at night, has not eaten, and when held has a extremely weak grip, he doesn't wrap up he just kind half ass grips. Any thoughts? I'm thinking parasites, and considering I just bought them less than a week ago, I'm just going to return them for my money back and find a different breeder.

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Do you handle them? Did you leave them alone after receiving them to adjust? Sometimes if you mess with a snake too often, they get too stressed out and don't eat. I'm guessing that's what's going on with the male rather than parasites.

And the others questioned your husbandry because a temp spike can cause neuro issues right away. It doesn't have to be a long term problem.

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