Why is this a bad idea?

The Problem- humidity, just too dang low.


The setup/complicating factors - AP racks, in a separate room (door is closed to keep the dogs out), but shared with my ASFs (the source of endless facination to the dogs), with the following items contributing to the problem:

- Substrate is the reptizorb liners from superior shipping supplies, great for absorbing moisture from urates (and spray bottles), however I can see EVERYTHING which gives me a big advantage on catching health issues early and it's absurdly easy to keep the tubs ultra clean (I do not want to change substrates)

- I have recently turned on a space heater as it's been a bit chilly (yes, we AZ-ers consider the low 70's "chilly" ;))

- Hubby hates the smell of the ASF food (mazuri 6f, I don't find it offensive but ok?) so he put a pretty hefty air filter in there (honeywell air genius 5)

- Living in the desert, ambient humidity is pretty low anyway


The Plan - slow release humidity boxes

Basically I was thinking, since misting doesn't work, and for a humid hide to work they have to actually be in the hide, how can I add humidity in a time-released fashion, that won't immediately get sucked up by the tub liner (and yes, all the water bowls are on the heat tape already). Here's what I came up with, take a little tupperware box (like the little multipack ones from ikea) and drill or solder it full of little holes (very small holes, nothing they could get a little nose caught in or injured on, thinking ~1mm). Then cut off a piece of (new, unused) sponge, dampen thouroughly, put it in the little box, and put the little box in the tub. It's fairly cheap, reusable (the little tupperwares could be washed or even dishwasher-ed, and the sponges disinfected in the microwave), and worst case scenario they poop on it (new sponge time). Even if it pops open I can't think how they could injure themselves on a tupperware container and piece of sponge.

Is this a stupid idea? Have I overlooked something potentially dangerous? I know it might not work, but I don't want to even attempt to find out if there's some hazard I haven't thought of.

Sponges are totally disgusting and will get rank very quickly, especially in an enclosed space regardless of how many holes you have. Sure, you could squeeze the sponges out and disinfect them every day, but if you ever forget or have to go away or something, I think it will be nasty. JMO.

Get bigger water bowls or turn the air filter down/put it on a timer/don't have it on so much.

Have you considered a room humidifier, or if the space heater is the type with a fan, have the warm air blow across a pan of water, to increase the humidity in the room?

I would also make humid hides with either the eco-earth or spaghnum moss, your BP's will use them as needed. Mine did when they were in tanks. They also tend to do their business in them as well, which makes clean-up easy but they blew through the spaghnum pretty fast...

We have a hot room for the animals with no ventilation. We run a big quartz space heater and a air genius 4 on max all day all night.

These solved our problems.
https://scontent-a-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/...05430890_n.jpg

I'm in Phoenix as well and use large water bowls and Venta air washers. The air washers don't use filters so they don't get gross. Simple and it works for me.

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Originally Posted by bcr229

Have you considered a room humidifier, or if the space heater is the type with a fan, have the warm air blow across a pan of water, to increase the humidity in the room?

I would also make humid hides with either the eco-earth or spaghnum moss, your BP's will use them as needed. Mine did when they were in tanks. They also tend to do their business in them as well, which makes clean-up easy but they blew through the spaghnum pretty fast...

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I'm hesitant to use a humidifier in that room mainly because the hubby uses the closets in there to store his gun collection (I had no idea I was marrying an English closet redneck, but he gets guns and I get snakes so it works out and makes gift-giving pretty easy), and I also store meteorites in there.

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Originally Posted by Dave Green

I'm in Phoenix as well and use large water bowls and Venta air washers. The air washers don't use filters so they don't get gross. Simple and it works for me.

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Dave, how would you score those Venta washers on odor and dust removal?

I'm thinking it might end up being easier to just get a lot more aggressive on the "spring cleaning" I'm currently doing and create a new space for him to store all his toys and my rocks, and just put a humidifier in there. Ideally I could humidify only the racks, but it does seem like humidifying the whole room is simpler. Thanks guys, sometimes it takes a bit of a push for me to do things logically when I get my teeth sunk into something ;).

I like the Venta air washers a lot, they work very well for humidity and dust removal but it's tough to say on odor control.

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Originally Posted by Badgemash

and I also store meteorites in there.

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You kinda snuck that one in there.. So that's pretty cool! How many do you have/how do you come across them? Just at random?

..Or was that entirely sarcastic? lol

Yep I didn't see the part about meteorites. Super cool!

Also I prefer controlling humidity in-rack simply because I'm paranoid about mold and mildew haha

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Originally Posted by Dev_DeCoste

You kinda snuck that one in there.. So that's pretty cool! How many do you have/how do you come across them? Just at random?

..Or was that entirely sarcastic? lol

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Totally legit actually. I'm a geologist IRL, and like most of my kind am a complusive rock hoarder, which means I have (pretty) rocks and minerals on nearly every open shelf, under the bed, and spilling out of the closets. I have about 3 dozen meteorites in my permanent collection, but I like to keep a few spares of some of the cheaper ones to give as gifts (they make cool presents for kids if you forget a birthday, fossil poop is also good). Depending on type meteorites range from <$1/gram for some of the big irons (like Sikhote Alin) to >$1000/gram (Lunars, pieces of Mars are actually cheaper ~$200/gram). Some of it is knowing the right people, but you can also buy them on the open market like the Tucson gem show or even ebay. But I have to keep a close eye on humidity for both the metorites and my salts or they rust/melt.

Badgesmash, PM me! I'd like to show you some rocks I have, lol.

OK my hubby and I hold an FFL and mine works as a gunsmith and custom manufacturer, so here is my take:

Your hubby is going to want to move the gun safe out of the herp room as the humidity level required for healthy ball pythons is not healthy for firearms (think rust), unless he's coating them heavily with oil or cosmoline after every use, and that gets nasty to clean. Also the cleaning solvents for carbon and copper buildup, and the oils used to lubricate firearms do offgas over time, which is probably not something you want in the herp room either.

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Originally Posted by bcr229

OK my hubby and I hold an FFL and mine works as a gunsmith and custom manufacturer, so here is my take:

Your hubby is going to want to move the gun safe out of the herp room as the humidity level required for healthy ball pythons is not healthy for firearms (think rust), unless he's coating them heavily with oil or cosmoline after every use, and that gets nasty to clean. Also the cleaning solvents for carbon and copper buildup, and the oils used to lubricate firearms do offgas over time, which is probably not something you want in the herp room either.

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Rust is exactly what he's worried about, but I hadn't thought about the solvent off gassing issue (he seems to enjoy taking them apart and has several bottles of various liquids, which I assume are those things), it looks like I'll be re-arranging furniture and closets tonight.

I love the smell of Hoppe's. It always make me think of my Grandpa. But I wouldn't use it in the same room as my snakes. Hopefully you can get everything in a good place. :)

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Originally Posted by Badgemash

Rust is exactly what he's worried about, but I hadn't thought about the solvent off gassing issue (he seems to enjoy taking them apart and has several bottles of various liquids, which I assume are those things), it looks like I'll be re-arranging furniture and closets tonight.

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Well, since you ARE in Phoenix, you could just take all the guns over to Robar and have them NP3 plated, then apply a coat of Rogard on top. Then you can just trash all the lubricants and the really harsh solvents!

As an added bonus, doing both finishes gives your guns a sexy "tuxedo" look!

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I just sprinkle some H2O on the substrate over the UTH and the humidity will rise. Although I do have hygrometers in every bin so as to monitor them closely. It works well for those who are going into shed.

Room humidifiers or even a DIY reptifogger might be a cost effective solution. Hardware stores around here carry personal ultrasonic humidifiers for around $20. Although with your substrate a normal room humidifier might be a better choice(not entirely sure the fogger mist wouldn't saturate your liners).

One thing I over looked earlier...the Reptizorb liners.

I'm thinking if you simply changed to paper towels your humidity issues may resolve themselves.

Sure, it's not as thick/absorbent, but messed get cleaned up right away anyways so I'm not sure how good of a trade off the extra absorbancy is, for humidity issues.

You can see everything on paper towels too, and paper towels are a helluva lot cheaper than the liners. Plus no shipping fees.

Edit - I know you said you didn't want to change substrates, so this is just a thought. The only thing paper towels don't have is the extra absorbancy, which seems to hinder instead of help your case. Might be different once you get the guns out of there, though.

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Originally Posted by patientz3ro

Well, since you ARE in Phoenix, you could just take all the guns over to Robar and have them NP3 plated, then apply a coat of Rogard on top. Then you can just trash all the lubricants and the really harsh solvents!

As an added bonus, doing both finishes gives your guns a sexy "tuxedo" look!

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I'll be honest, I have no idea what any of this means. I can safely clear and load my guns (which is my Benelli 99.99% of the time) and then I hand them to hubby and he does the taking apart and cleaning and chemical-ing. Most of my efforts go toward trying to remember which variant of what he's currently into and secretly ordering it at Cabela's (for Christams or his birthday or whatnot). :oops:

ETA: actual cleaning always takes place on the dining room table, never the actual snake room. They were just put back in their cases after and then stored in the closet in that room.

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Originally Posted by DooLittle

I love the smell of Hoppe's. It always make me think of my Grandpa. But I wouldn't use it in the same room as my snakes. Hopefully you can get everything in a good place. :)

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Working on it, my back is killing me tonight!

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Originally Posted by Raven01

Room humidifiers or even a DIY reptifogger might be a cost effective solution. Hardware stores around here carry personal ultrasonic humidifiers for around $20. Although with your substrate a normal room humidifier might be a better choice(not entirely sure the fogger mist wouldn't saturate your liners).

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I discovered today that foggers do that yes :(, so I will be trying the humidifier next.

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Originally Posted by SquamishSerpents

One thing I over looked earlier...the Reptizorb liners.

I'm thinking if you simply changed to paper towels your humidity issues may resolve themselves.

Sure, it's not as thick/absorbent, but messed get cleaned up right away anyways so I'm not sure how good of a trade off the extra absorbancy is, for humidity issues.

You can see everything on paper towels too, and paper towels are a helluva lot cheaper than the liners. Plus no shipping fees.

Edit - I know you said you didn't want to change substrates, so this is just a thought. The only thing paper towels don't have is the extra absorbancy, which seems to hinder instead of help your case. Might be different once you get the guns out of there, though.

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I think I'm going to try the paper towels, it's worth a shot right? And it would be nice to not have to wait for them to fix their site so I can actually order the things and then wait three days for them to show up (and then wait an extra day because they apparently require a signature now).

Moving the guns has turned into house cleaning and re-arranging of epic porportions, but the guns (and the unused reloading gear, and the ammo, and all of the 976 other accessories) now have a whole new storage arrangement (lol, hubby is out of town and has no idea what I'm doing, this could get fun :D), and everything in that room that's not a snake, rack, or ASF tub is now tidily stored in a plastic tub with a bag of dessicant and stacked in the closet. A) I'm really proud of myself as I am not known for being neat, tidy, or organized in any way (although some other rooms now look like they've been bombed) and B) I will be hooking up a new room humidifier tomorrow.

If you decide to go with a humidifier, I would recommend a warm-mist humidifier. I've been using a Honeywell Quicksteam for... what, 3 - 4 years now, maybe 5? (how old am I again?)

The humidity controller isn't perfect, but it never is. I've also found it about as simple as I could ask for in terms of cleaning the thing and refilling it without any drips. Mind you, I use it only during the winters.

I'm sure there's other good ones that other people will recommend, but just giving my 2 cents.

The cool-mist ones are a nuisance and bacteria can become an issue...

That aside, depending how bad the humidity really is I'd think switching substrates and turning off the space heater might solve some things (I mean really, low 70's is "wear longer sleeves and pants" weather at worst, you can tough it out ;)).

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Originally Posted by Badgemash

I discovered today that foggers do that yes :(, so I will be trying the humidifier next.

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If you were thinking of switching from a fogger to an ultrasonic humidifier, I can save you the trouble. They're the exact same thing.

Almost all humidifiers will produce fog to some degree. The only exceptions I know of are evaporative (wick) and pass-thru (bubble) humidifiers. Wick humidifiers basically use a wick to draw water from a reservoir, then a fan blows air across the wick, picking up moisture as it goes. Heated wicks are better than non heated, but they're not exactly falling off of the trees. Bubble humidifiers pass water through a column of water, and the air picks up moisture as it goes.

Neither of those is going to generate the kind of humidity you can get with a fogger. That's why I use one. Mine is controlled by a hygrostat, but if you're saturating your substrate, turn the fogger all the way down and aim the outlet at a hide or something. That should diffuse the fog enough to stop soaking things.

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Originally Posted by patientz3ro

If you were thinking of switching from a fogger to an ultrasonic humidifier, I can save you the trouble. They're the exact same thing.

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I happened to have one of those little zoo med repti fogger things sitting around, so that's what I meant by fogger. I'm going to go pick up one that's actually designed for humidifying a room today, and I'm going to print out your break down of how the types work and take it with me, thank you!

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Originally Posted by Badgemash

ETA: actual cleaning always takes place on the dining room table, never the actual snake room. They were just put back in their cases after and then stored in the closet in that room.

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Maybe I'm overcautious, but I do my gun cleaning out in the garage. Between the solvents and what's being cleaned off of/out of the guns, I don't want that process happening where I eat. (Even if you shoot only jacketed/plated rounds, there *is* lead involved because the active ingredient in most modern priming compound is lead styphnate, and burning it gets residue all over the gun, especially in the barrel and action.)

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Originally Posted by olstyn

Maybe I'm overcautious, but I do my gun cleaning out in the garage. Between the solvents and what's being cleaned off of/out of the guns, I don't want that process happening where I eat. (Even if you shoot only jacketed/plated rounds, there *is* lead involved because the active ingredient in most modern priming compound is lead styphnate, and burning it gets residue all over the gun, especially in the barrel and action.)

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Not that there's anything wrong with being extra careful, but you'd have to clean a LOT of really dirty guns for that amount of lead to become an issue.

Personally, I like to wait until someone comes to the door trying to sell me something, then I sit on the couch with my snake around my neck and start stripping my gun and talking to myself. Oddly enough, they always seem to remember a previous appointment they forgot about.

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Originally Posted by patientz3ro

Personally, I like to wait until someone comes to the door trying to sell me something, then I sit on the couch with my snake around my neck and start stripping my gun and talking to myself. Oddly enough, they always seem to remember a previous appointment they forgot about.

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Hahaha! Love this.


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Originally Posted by olstyn

Maybe I'm overcautious, but I do my gun cleaning out in the garage. Between the solvents and what's being cleaned off of/out of the guns, I don't want that process happening where I eat. (Even if you shoot only jacketed/plated rounds, there *is* lead involved because the active ingredient in most modern priming compound is lead styphnate, and burning it gets residue all over the gun, especially in the barrel and action.)

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I'm kind of embarrased right now, our dining table is lucky if it gets used for dining once a year :oops:. It typically gets used as the place I dump stuff when I walk in the door, and as a resting place for (the large number of) things I haven't gotten around to putting away. But I don't think you're being overcautious, I was reading a study that came out recently about lead and brain function, and the new findings suggest that the current EPA "safe" levels are actually far too high. So I think anything we can do to reduce exposure is a good idea.

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Originally Posted by Badgemash

I'm kind of embarrased right now, our dining table is lucky if it gets used for dining once a year :oops:. It typically gets used as the place I dump stuff when I walk in the door, and as a resting place for (the large number of) things I haven't gotten around to putting away. But I don't think you're being overcautious, I was reading a study that came out recently about lead and brain function, and the new findings suggest that the current EPA "safe" levels are actually far too high. So I think anything we can do to reduce exposure is a good idea.

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Well, when you put it in light of lead and brain function...

I would submit for your consideration that most people don't use their brain enough for lead to have an impact, no matter what concentration they're exposed to!

Present company excepted, of course...

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Just a tip too late for your hubby Badgemash.
Hit up any welder friends for the reusable useable desiccant packs from 25Lb or larger MIG spools. Toss a couple of those in a gun cabinet and moisture is never an issue again barring a flood. Pulls the moisture right out of the air especially in a confined space like a cabinet.

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Originally Posted by Raven01

Just a tip too late for your hubby Badgemash.
Hit up any welder friends for the reusable useable desiccant packs from 25Lb or larger MIG spools. Toss a couple of those in a gun cabinet and moisture is never an issue again barring a flood. Pulls the moisture right out of the air especially in a confined space like a cabinet.

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Not sure how difficult it is to get your hands on, but it's also available in bulk. Changes color as it absorbs moisture, and you just have to microwave it to reactivate. If you happen to know any aircraft electricians or avionics techs in the military or defense contractors, they should be able to "acquire" some for you...


Not that I'm advocating the misappropriation of government property or anything.

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Nuts, I should have suggested that stuff right off, we have scads of it and it's awesome for keeping the safes dry. And yes, hubby has a welder.

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Originally Posted by Raven01

Just a tip too late for your hubby Badgemash.
Hit up any welder friends for the reusable useable desiccant packs from 25Lb or larger MIG spools. Toss a couple of those in a gun cabinet and moisture is never an issue again barring a flood. Pulls the moisture right out of the air especially in a confined space like a cabinet.

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He found out I moved all of his stuff (seemed quite happy actually, go figure) but I'm sure he'd love anything that will help keep his preciouses in tip-top condition.

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Originally Posted by patientz3ro

Not sure how difficult it is to get your hands on, but it's also available in bulk. Changes color as it absorbs moisture, and you just have to microwave it to reactivate. If you happen to know any aircraft electricians or avionics techs in the military or defense contractors, they should be able to "acquire" some for you...


Not that I'm advocating the misappropriation of government property or anything.

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lol, we're both ex-military, and hubby is a helicopter pilot, so I'm pretty sure one of us could sort something out...

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Originally Posted by bcr229

Nuts, I should have suggested that stuff right off, we have scads of it and it's awesome for keeping the safes dry. And yes, hubby has a welder.

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Aww mine wants one of those (no idea why, he just wants it), but I banned him from buying any more toys until he uses the ones he already has (I just moved what had to be 20lbs of brass and three boxes of reloading gear that's been used ONCE).

Someone suggested earlier (forgot who sorry) putting dish of water in front of the heater, which I tried yesterday (did not have a ton of time to shop for humidifiers, but didn't like the ones I saw in the the stores so far either) and it worked pretty well actually. I've had two do beautiful sheds in the last 24 hours, so that's good.

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Originally Posted by patientz3ro

Not that there's anything wrong with being extra careful, but you'd have to clean a LOT of really dirty guns for that amount of lead to become an issue.

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You're most likely right, but I prefer to just avoid any situation that sets me up to ingest lead whenever possible. I don't eat on the range, I only drink water on the range if it's super hot out (risk of dehydration outweighs the lead concern), etc.

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Originally Posted by Badgemash

Aww mine wants one of those (no idea why, he just wants it), but I banned him from buying any more toys until he uses the ones he already has (I just moved what had to be 20lbs of brass and three boxes of reloading gear that's been used ONCE).

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Haha I know how that goes, but I *do* use my reloading gear, so if any of that brass is 9mm or .380, I'd be happy to "dispose" of it for you. I'd even do it for free! Just think of the closet space you'll save! :)

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Originally Posted by Badgemash

Someone suggested earlier (forgot who sorry) putting dish of water in front of the heater, which I tried yesterday (did not have a ton of time to shop for humidifiers, but didn't like the ones I saw in the the stores so far either) and it worked pretty well actually.

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You're welcome. :D

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Originally Posted by olstyn

Haha I know how that goes, but I *do* use my reloading gear, so if any of that brass is 9mm or .380, I'd be happy to "dispose" of it for you. I'd even do it for free! Just think of the closet space you'll save! :)

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Gee thanks! I believe there's 9mm, .32, .380, .223, .308, .40, .44 mag, .45, .303 british, and .270wsm in there, so it might not be worth the effort to sort them out lol. If he doesn't do something with them soon I'm going to melt them into a giant brass doorstop.

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Originally Posted by bcr229

You're welcome. :D

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Thank you! I've been on the ipad lately since my laptop died, it has an unfortunate habit of discarding all of my text if I hit back, scroll up, or look at it wrong. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Badgemash

Gee thanks! I believe there's 9mm, .32, .380, .223, .308, .40, .44 mag, .45, .303 british, and .270wsm in there, so it might not be worth the effort to sort them out lol. If he doesn't do something with them soon I'm going to melt them into a giant brass doorstop.

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Haha nice. If you're seriously going to dispose of them, I'd get your hubby to go on a gun forum and sell them; usually there are people who are looking to buy brass at reasonable-ish rates, especially if you're local to them and won't have to do shipping. (You'll usually get more if you separate by caliber so that buyers don't have to.) Same goes for the reloading gear, honestly. There's always a demand for that stuff, and while used equipment won't fetch back the money he originally paid for it, it definitely still holds significant value, assuming it's in good condition.