After 65 Days I Thought They Were Dead - Candled Opaque

I pulled my girl off her two eggs to see how they were doing 65 days after being laid. I candled them and didn't see any veins. I thought they must have died, and I wanted to get mom eating again, so I set up the incubator and moved the eggs in there. After cleaning up mom and her cage, I cut the eggs. I was surprised to see babies inside! So why would they candle opaque? Don't mature eggs candle the same way just laid eggs do?

I wouldn't have changed their situation if I thought they were still alive. I'm a little worried that the change will be bad for them, but I'm trying to keep the temperature about the same, and I'm glad to have better control over the humidity. I was having some trouble keeping the humidity up in mom's cage since the heater started kicking on. Anyway, opinions and advice appreciated.

I'm no breeder, but does this help? : http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...es-cutting-ect

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Originally Posted by pythonminion

I'm no breeder, but does this help? : http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...es-cutting-ect

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That's a great thread. Thanks!

not sure what the temps were with mom on the eggs, but you should be close for them to pip. getting the temps close in this stage of incubating the eggs should be fine. I open a very small hole in my egg tubs about 10 to 14 days out from the time they pip to allow more fresh air in which causes less humidity. not as important at this stage. just don't let the eggs dry out as you did cut the eggs. (don't want the egg sack to dry in the egg) so make sure you have distilled water in the incubator so it's the same temp as the eggs and you don't have a temp shock with different temp water. good luck and let us know how it turns out, don

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Originally Posted by don15681

not sure what the temps were with mom on the eggs, but you should be close for them to pip. getting the temps close in this stage of incubating the eggs should be fine. I open a very small hole in my egg tubs about 10 to 14 days out from the time they pip to allow more fresh air in which causes less humidity. not as important at this stage. just don't let the eggs dry out as you did cut the eggs. (don't want the egg sack to dry in the egg) so make sure you have distilled water in the incubator so it's the same temp as the eggs and you don't have a temp shock with different temp water. good luck and let us know how it turns out, don

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Thanks! It's good & humid in there. It seemed like the eggs had dried out some with their mother. Maybe that's why they candled opaque. Maybe, once the heater starts kicking on, I should end any maternal incubation and move to the incubator. I'm still worried that they may have tried to get out and were unable to because the egg shell was too dry. Is there a way to tell if they're still alive?

Touch them, and see if they move.

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Originally Posted by rafacacho

Touch them, and see if they move.

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Good idea! One moved when I touched it and the other didn't. I'm hoping the one that didn't was just being lazy. Well, at least I have one for sure.

How are they? Sometimes I gently squeeze from the bottom of the egg, this always makes them move.

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Originally Posted by rafacacho

How are they? Sometimes I gently squeeze from the bottom of the egg, this always makes them move.

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No changes yet. It's been 68 days now. Wish they'd hurry up! I'll try squeezing from the bottom next time I check them. Thanks. :)

Any updates? Im looking forward to see how this turns out. So many conflicting theories on maternal incubation....

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Originally Posted by V2 HeX

Any updates? Im looking forward to see how this turns out. So many conflicting theories on maternal incubation....

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They're still in the incubator. I check on them every day. I think the reason they're taking so long is because I had the hot spot a little too low while they were maternally incubating. The mother did a fine job, and probably would have finished the job if I hadn't interfered. I just don't know why the eggs candled opaque. Could be the humidity was too low. My first MI clutch was perfect and I had the hot spot a little warmer with the humidity a little higher. Live & learn.

Oh ok then. Yeah i would assume you would need to drasticly ramp up the Heat and humidity for MI. Still debating on which method i want to use for my first season. Will probably go incubator just for the amount of control i have that way. Though MI interests me as well. All in all, well done on having 2 eventful MI clutchs. Looking forward to some updates:gj:

We maternally incubate and our last clutch had some odd timing. Half the eggs where layed on the heat tape and hatched about day 56 and the other have was right next to them but off the heat tape and hatched about day 63. Of the 6 clutches we have had we maternally incubated all and so far that was the only odd one.

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Originally Posted by V2 HeX

Oh ok then. Yeah i would assume you would need to drasticly ramp up the Heat and humidity for MI. Still debating on which method i want to use for my first season. Will probably go incubator just for the amount of control i have that way. Though MI interests me as well. All in all, well done on having 2 eventful MI clutchs. Looking forward to some updates:gj:

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Heat and humidity don't need to be drasticaly high, just a little. About 75% to 85% on the humidity, and the hot spot no cooler than 90 degrees. That's just s little higher than normal for me. Good luck to you either way you go. :)

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Originally Posted by Sama

We maternally incubate and our last clutch had some odd timing. Half the eggs where layed on the heat tape and hatched about day 56 and the other have was right next to them but off the heat tape and hatched about day 63. Of the 6 clutches we have had we maternally incubated all and so far that was the only odd one.

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Wow, seven days apart, interesting. Well, I'm on day 71 for these two eggs. Wish they would come out! At least I've seen some white in the eggs, so they're both at least Pieds. They might be Pumpkin Pieds. :)

I successfully almost-maternally incubated my one and only clutch. Almost because at day 65, the mother decided to leave the clutch! So, I moved them all to the standby incubator and they pipped at day 70. I did not change any of the temp settings in the enclosure except that I bumped up humidity to 75-80% the same way I do when the snakes are in shed. The mother laid 5 eggs, 1 was a rotten egg which the mom kicked out of her clutch on day 1, and 1 choked on his umbilical so he didn't crawl out of the egg. I was not knowledgeable enough to recognize the umbilitical situation and try to save the baby.

I'll be maternally incubating if I ever go through it again (I can't house more than 2 additions so I have to go look for possible homes for the babies before I even contemplate breeding again). I like the idea that I don't have to be exact on everything as the mom has the ability to compensate for my errors. When we did it before, the mother never lost much weight because she continued to eat weekly while coiled around her clutch. So, we didn't see any untoward stress to the mom. It was a great experience.

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Originally Posted by anatess

I successfully almost-maternally incubated my one and only clutch. Almost because at day 65, the mother decided to leave the clutch! So, I moved them all to the standby incubator and they pipped at day 70. I did not change any of the temp settings in the enclosure except that I bumped up humidity to 75-80% the same way I do when the snakes are in shed. The mother laid 5 eggs, 1 was a rotten egg which the mom kicked out of her clutch on day 1, and 1 choked on his umbilical so he didn't crawl out of the egg. I was not knowledgeable enough to recognize the umbilitical situation and try to save the baby.

I'll be maternally incubating if I ever go through it again (I can't house more than 2 additions so I have to go look for possible homes for the babies before I even contemplate breeding again). I like the idea that I don't have to be exact on everything as the mom has the ability to compensate for my errors. When we did it before, the mother never lost much weight because she continued to eat weekly while coiled around her clutch. So, we didn't see any untoward stress to the mom. It was a great experience.

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Nice to hear MI success stories. :) If these two don't make it, it will not be the fault of MI. I let the humidity get too low. Then I mistakenly thought they were dead & took them away from the mother. Wish I had just brought up the humidity. I had no trouble at all with my first two MI clutches. It was only the change in weather that led me to make a mistake.

Any updates?

Enviado desde mi LG-P778 mediante Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by rafacacho

Any updates?

Enviado desde mi LG-P778 mediante Tapatalk

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?? x2

They both seem in good shape! First baby came out of the egg yesterday after 72 days. It was 78 grams and seems healthy. Number two is sticking her head out and should come out any day. I think the turning point came when I started misting them. That softened up the eggs and I think was a signal for them to come out. In the future I'll know to be more careful about humidity when the heater starts kicking on. Thanks for all the support and good ideas! :)

Pumpkins??

The first one's a Pied. The second one's a Pied and might be Pumpkin. I can't tell yet.

Good luck with the babies glad to see they're hatching and good luck in the future on those clown pieds! Just looking at your sig and noticed a het pied clown

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Originally Posted by BumbleB

Good luck with the babies glad to see they're hatching and good luck in the future on those clown pieds! Just looking at your sig and noticed a het pied clown

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Thanks! I'm hoping to get a Clown Pied in a few years. The last baby finally hatched after 74 days. Looks like a straight Pied. Only 60 grams, but looks lively and healthy. :)

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Originally Posted by piedplus

Thanks! I'm hoping to get a Clown Pied in a few years. The last baby finally hatched after 74 days. Looks like a straight Pied. Only 60 grams, but looks lively and healthy. :)

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Nice! If you happened to hatch a female and plan to sell, PM me. Wife has some projects in mind, which will require a pied female. I dont mind, pieds are my favorite any way :cool: Very glad to here you hit some pieds, and healthy ones at that :gj:

Come on, no pictures?

:) Here they are:
http://snakecharmed.files.wordpress....3039.jpg?w=487
http://snakecharmed.files.wordpress....3042.jpg?w=487
http://snakecharmed.files.wordpress....3055.jpg?w=487
http://snakecharmed.files.wordpress....3059.jpg?w=487
http://snakecharmed.files.wordpress....3052.jpg?w=487
http://snakecharmed.files.wordpress....3054.jpg?w=487
http://snakecharmed.files.wordpress....3048.jpg?w=487
http://snakecharmed.files.wordpress....3050.jpg?w=487

I sent pictures to Justin Kobylka, the Pumpkin expert, and he says they're both Pumpkins! With the first pop, they both look like girls too. With only two, I sure hit the jackpot!

Sweet Congrats

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Originally Posted by piedplus

:) Here they are:
http://snakecharmed.files.wordpress....3039.jpg?w=487
http://snakecharmed.files.wordpress....3042.jpg?w=487
http://snakecharmed.files.wordpress....3055.jpg?w=487
http://snakecharmed.files.wordpress....3059.jpg?w=487
http://snakecharmed.files.wordpress....3052.jpg?w=487
http://snakecharmed.files.wordpress....3054.jpg?w=487
http://snakecharmed.files.wordpress....3048.jpg?w=487
http://snakecharmed.files.wordpress....3050.jpg?w=487

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You hit pumpkins at that! Well done on this clutch, and may i say adorable little pied worms :D Glad all went well with these two! Now im more excited then ever to start my own pied projects!

Great looking babies congrats

Gratz! Got to love all the little Pieds.

Thanks!

Awesome pics! Thanks for sharing :) and congrats on an awesome clutch!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Awesome odds there! Glad to hear they made it! :gj::gj:

Thanks! Yep, I sure was lucky. :)

And to think you thought they were goners!!!!


Perfect pumpkin pieds for Thanksgiving!!! They're super cute! Congrats!

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Originally Posted by anatess

And to think you thought they were goners!!!!


Perfect pumpkin pieds for Thanksgiving!!! They're super cute! Congrats!

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Thanks! The perfect Thanksgiving treat! :)