Need advice from the people I trust most; about a payment plan incomplete,what to do?

Okay my fellow snake people, I need some advice and re-assurance please.

Back in June of this year, I sold my Vanilla Mojave female on a payment plan to a nice fellow who had been talking to me about her for a couple of months. I agreed to a 25% deposit, the balance to be paid in 90 days. He sent me the deposit on the first of July. I only heard from him once in the 90 days, but I wasn't really worried. He did let me know his wife was expecting a baby, and was scheduled for a Cesarean the weekend before final payment was due. He sent another $200 towards the snake, and asked for an additional week after the 90 days to give himself and his family a chance to get settled. I of course happily agreed, I was surprised he had not mentioned it before, but after all it's not my business. I waited the additional week, and then sent a polite email asking how the family was doing, and let him know the snake is just fine. I DID NOT ask when he would finish paying for the snake, I didn't want to seem rude and I was sure he'd get right back to me and let me know.

It has now been 10 days since I sent the email, and roughly 4 weeks since I have heard from him. I am starting to get concerned. The weather is rapidly getting too cold for shipping, and that worries me. I don't want to make the wrong choice here, the guy has after all paid about half of what I sold the snake for, but neither do I want to be holding on to this snake indefinitely waiting to see what happens. I know I am within my rights to re-sell this snake since he did not complete the payment plan as agreed, but that seems so harsh and cold. For all I know, something could have gone wrong with his wife and child, and I sure don't want to add to that. Then there is this nagging suspicion in the back of my mind, I re-read his emails and wonder if he was even telling the truth.

To make things worse, yesterday hubby was "being helpful" cleaning up my email, since I get so much spam, and deleted all but one of our emails back and forth. :( So now, if I do decide to re-sell this snake, he can claim I defrauded him and I have no way to prove otherwise.

So that is my dilemma. Any advice or suggestions are welcome. Even if it's just a little encouragement or re-assurance I'll take it.


EDIT: I just checked my sent box, and thank heavens they are all still there. Now, can someone tell me how to save them on my computer to prevent another accident?
Gale

How can he file a claim if you just refund him the money and sell the snake off to someone else? That's what I would do.

He might be going through some personal issues but as courtesy he should be prompt on communication. He didn't hold up his end of the deal, so I'd say it's your choice without any guilt.

EDIT: you can copy paste on a word document program like MS Word or Pages on Mac. Or you can just do screen shots and save those pictures in a folder.

On the emails, I'd move them from your sent or trash folders to one marked "important" or something along those lines. As for the snake, that's a sticky situation. I would probably send another email asking if he received the previous one, mentioning that the weather is becoming too cold to ship and if he doesn't respond, he'll be forced to forfeit his payments thus far. In my opinion, you've already gone above and beyond. I know others may say you've fulfilled your obligations in warning him, but I'm a softy and would probably give one more chance lol.

Hello,

I work in sales and customer service for a living so if it were me, I would offer him 2 options (Options are always nice) what the terms of those options are is up to you but something along the lines of 1. pay the remaining balance of the snake by X date and I will ship that day, or 2. I will refund the money you have provided and sell the snake to someone else.

Of course its best to dress it up at the beginning, you know like, Dear Sir, Following up on previous email, I understand life gets busy and out of consideration I am emailing you today to in hopes we can finalize our transaction. With weather changing blah blah blah, I require response from you by end Oct X (whichever date you prefer) in order to ensure a smooth shipping experience for both you and the snake. In order to be fair to everyone I would like to offer you a chance to finalize our deal provided you can send the remaining balance by the date stated above, or contact to me to make alternate arrangements. If you are unable to contact me by the date above I will be forced to return the money you have put forward for the animal to date and offer him up for sale once again.

Something like that. Give him a choice and let him know your position and try to be fair to everyone. At that point the ball is in his court and you can make whatever decision you have to without feeling a lick of guilt. You offered the chance.

Hope I could help.

I would send him an email that he needs to get back to you asap and let you know what's going on. give him a time limit to respond and be very clear that after that time all emails from him will be deleted without being read. his deposit will not be refunded and you will be selling the snake to someone else.

This is why I make part of the price, e.g. 10%, non-refundable - if the buyer flakes I can refund everything except whatever portion is non-refundable, and put the snake back up for sale. You really need it to cover yourself for the cost of feeders, time spent caring for the snake, turning away other customers, etc. while the buyer is making payments.

Personally I would reach out to the buyer one last time, ask for the remaining payment within seven days in light of the changing weather conditions, and if you don't hear from him you'll issue a refund and the snake goes back up for sale.

Ok, well I saved copies of all of our emails to a folder on my computer so I do have a record of the transaction. I did clearly state several times the deposit was non-refundable, and the balance was to be paid in 90 days. So, the deposit I would not return no matter what since I clearly said it was non refundable.

As to the remaining $200. I am not sure about that yet. I mean, I do want to do the right thing. But at the same time, if I put something in Layaway at Wal-Mart and didn't pay for it on time, I wouldn't get my money back. I don't know, maybe I'm talking nonsense. But I could easily have sold that snake in the amount of time I've been holding her for him, and that kind of chafes I guess is how you'd put it.

I am going to send him another email, letting him know the window for safe shipping is rapidly disappearing, and while I would hold the snake for the winter if that becomes necessary, I won't do so without final payment. The question that remains is, if I offer him a little more time to pay, how long do I offer?

Being completely honest here, I DO want him to get the snake. He seemed so thrilled about getting her, says he already knows what he'll pair her with when she gets old enough, I just believe he really does want her badly.
That being said. I cannot hold onto this snake forever waiting for him. There are plenty of people who would be just as thrilled to get her, and who would pay what I ask up front.

I am just so torn.

I know what it feels like to want a snake so badly, and then to have something go wrong and not be able to. I also know what it feels like to think a snake it out of your reach and then have a breeder go out of their way to make that snake available to you. But at what point do I, as a breeder, say I have done my best to help you, but now I must move on? I already know I'm a sucker. I sold a snake to a person I know from here, and because I knew this person I let them take the snake home with just a deposit. That was more than a year ago and I still don't have the last little bit they agreed to pay me. :rolleyes:

I just wish I didn't have to make this decision. I wish he had kept his part of the deal, so I wouldn't have to stress out about doing the right thing now that he hasn't.

Gale

Gale, I think the folks suggesting you give him a new, hard deadline for completion of payment are right on the money (say, October 25th EOD). However, Option#2 should only be to refund the payment he made after the initial deposit (if anything). Deposits to hold an animal prevent them from being sold elsewhere, which makes them nonrefundable.

No need to feel bad. You've done what you can.

Email him and ask him one last time to pay the remaining balance. Tell him you will need to resell the snake to someone else soon if this isn't finished up.

If he doesn't finish this up, and you really want to go out of your way to help this guy (you seem very nice), you can apply what he has currently paid to a different snake if/when he gets back in touch with you.

EDIT: But there would be nothing wrong with you just cancelling the deal and keeping the non-refundable deposit at this point. No need to stress.

Helping someone out who is down on their luck is one thing. patiently waiting while someone completely ignores you is something totally different. if he is down on his luck or can't pay for whatever reason the least he could do is take 30 seconds and shoot you an email.

Well, I sent another email.

I gave him until the 28th, which is a full month past the 90 days we agreed on.

I really hope he gets back with me and it was just a case of too busy to think about it.

I know it's completely within my rights to keep his deposit and re-sell the snake. It just feels wrong to me somehow. I'm too softhearted I guess.

I will let you guys know if I hear back from him, and what he has to say if he does.

Gale

Do you really want this snake to go to him since you think he might not being truth full to you and to someone who doesn't follow through with what has been agreed to? He might treat the snake the same way, oh I'll feed it when I get a chance. Give him 2 options and keep the deposit.

As long as you try to be fair to everyone, which you clearly have gone above and beyond to do, you have not one thing to feel bad about. If it was as important to him as he made it seem wouldn't it be a priority for him to contact you before you sell it to someone else? If you offer to hold it over the winter, As a business man, I wouldn't recommend that. Say he pays for the snake, you hold it all winter, feed it house it and a freak accident happens and it dies (God forbid, not likely, but hypothetically speaking). Now you're on the hook to either offer up another animal so you are out the cost of 1 guranteed and any costs to feeding it fell on your shoulders as well.

Put yourself as the seller first, but be fair to your buyer. Often we want to over accommodate clients in business but you have to set realistic expectations right off the hop

It just happened to me a few months ago.

The loan was 90 days with 20% non refundable deposit.

I always give the choice to my customers they can pay a little each week or pay a lump sum at the end of the plan.

During the loan we communicated a few times (mainly pictures update) then came the time that the remaining balance was due and nothing.

I sent an email telling the buyer I was hoping he was ok since I had not hear from him in a while and to let him now that the payment was 2 days past due so I took the liberty to extend the plan for an additional week.

No answer to that email.

3 Days later I sent a paypal request as well as an other email telling him that if I did not hear from him by such date I would have to assume that he was no longer interested.

No answer to that email either.

4 days later final email to inform him that since he had failed to answer all my email I was now considering the transaction void and that the animals would be re-listed.

Finally 2 days after that email he ask for my number, which I gave him in the hope that there was an explanation and that we could resume the transaction.

No call

2 days after giving me that phone number I emailed him again just to make sure he got my email and gave him my number again.
Never heard from him.

So after 2 weeks, 5 emails, 1 Paypal money request, the transaction was voided and I still waited another 2 weeks before re-listing the animals.

It has been months now I never heard from him, I believe that I was patient and would have work with him if he only communicated with me but he failed to do so leaving me no choice.

Bottom line if the animal is not paid for as agreed upon, YOU have all rights to cancel the transaction and re-list the animals, you can be patient and lenient but you also need to know where to draw a line.

In my experience the longer the loan the more problem, I had 2 customers defaulting on loans and in both cases they were 90 days.

Wow so weird how someone would just drop communication, especially with paying for half the animal, or at least a deposit. I know if I was making payments I'd keep constant communication so the seller knows I'm still interested, and so I can get updates on the snake. I think you've been more than generous and that him not replying for so long is unacceptable.

Thank you for posting that Deborah. It makes me feel better about my decision. Perhaps I should not have given him that much extra time, but it's done now. I admit if he had not said something about a new baby I would not have been so patient. And perhaps he was using that as an excuse, although I prefer not to think so. Being a mom myself, I know that influenced me, I know how crazy life with a newborn can be.

After much thought and by reading and re-reading the opinions and advice given here, I know I made the right choice. Perhaps I should not hope he completes the transaction, perhaps he won't make a good owner. I like to think if someone spends so much money on an animal, they will surely take good care of it. Of course, I find it hard to believe someone would put $350 towards an animal and then not pay for it completely.

Now I still must decide. If he does not get back in touch with me, and does not finish paying for the snake, I know the deposit is mine to keep, but what about the $200? Most of me feels like I should refund that money and move on. But I admit there is a perverse little part of me that whispers, "Why send it back? Chances are he never intended to finish the deal. You've been patient with him, if he's out that money it's not your fault."

So should I listen to the angel on my shoulder, or the devil on my other?

Gale

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Originally Posted by angllady2

Thank you for posting that Deborah. It makes me feel better about my decision. Perhaps I should not have given him that much extra time, but it's done now. I admit if he had not said something about a new baby I would not have been so patient. And perhaps he was using that as an excuse, although I prefer not to think so. Being a mom myself, I know that influenced me, I know how crazy life with a newborn can be.

After much thought and by reading and re-reading the opinions and advice given here, I know I made the right choice. Perhaps I should not hope he completes the transaction, perhaps he won't make a good owner. I like to think if someone spends so much money on an animal, they will surely take good care of it. Of course, I find it hard to believe someone would put $350 towards an animal and then not pay for it completely.

Now I still must decide. If he does not get back in touch with me, and does not finish paying for the snake, I know the deposit is mine to keep, but what about the $200? Most of me feels like I should refund that money and move on. But I admit there is a perverse little part of me that whispers, "Why send it back? Chances are he never intended to finish the deal. You've been patient with him, if he's out that money it's not your fault."

So should I listen to the angel on my shoulder, or the devil on my other?

Gale

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Keep it.

If he gets back in touch with you and you want to help him, tell him you'll apply that towards a different snake.

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Originally Posted by 200xth

Keep it.

If he gets back in touch with you and you want to help him, tell him you'll apply that towards a different snake.

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I agree keep it and return it only as credit towards another purchase.

Here-in is my dilemma.... He paid by PayPal right? The evil of all evils!!

I hate PayPal as a seller for the one reason that if the buyer does not like the even just the color of the snake when they get it, they can file a claim, get their money back and you are out the snake and money- believe me, it happens. Despite all your emails and documentation, PayPal is all for handling the money again and getting 3-5 days more interest off it while issuing a refund to the buyer.

PayPal could care less about your "non-refundable" deposit policy. If you didn't ship anything they will get their deposit back if they file the claim. Your policy does not override PayPal's user agreement.

My advice is to start thinking about other payment forms..... Pop Money, MO's, etc... Pop Money is through about every bank and the fee is less than $1 per transaction with no limit. Everyone I have turned onto pop money LOVES it!!

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PayPal could care less about your "non-refundable" deposit policy. If you didn't ship anything they will get their deposit back if they file the claim. Your policy does not override PayPal's user agreement.

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Tue but not in this case

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He sent me the deposit on the first of July

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You have 45 days to file a case with paypal after 45 days the buyer is no longer able to file a claim and get your money back, you can report it but will not see a penny back.

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You can open a disputeA buyer asks for a seller's help in resolving an issue with a transaction. in the Resolution CenterLocated in My Account, the PayPal resource for resolving issues between buyers and sellers. to contact a seller directly and resolveA buyer and seller come to an agreement and close the case, or PayPal comes to a decision and closes the case. a problematic transaction. You have 45 days from the payment date to open a dispute. Common reasons for opening a dispute include:

You paid for an item but haven't received it and the seller is uncooperative or nonresponsive.
You received an item that was significantly different than described.
Click the Report a Problem button in the Resolution Center to open a dispute. Then, provide more information about the issue and post a message to the seller.

Transactions older than 45 days cannot be disputed but should still be reported. PayPal tracks seller performance trends in the event we need to take action to protect other buyers.

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Now I still must decide. If he does not get back in touch with me, and does not finish paying for the snake, I know the deposit is mine to keep, but what about the $200? Most of me feels like I should refund that money and move on. But I admit there is a perverse little part of me that whispers, "Why send it back? Chances are he never intended to finish the deal. You've been patient with him, if he's out that money it's not your fault."

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Few years ago when another customer defaulted on his payment I refunded everything minus the deposit, to me that is the honest thing to do, I now some people don't do that and issue a credit instead but to be honest if the person default on his loan, I would rather give them a refund and be done with them then do through the same thing again.

Well, I did hear back from him. He apologized for not contacting me, he said he's been very busy.

He said he intends to send the remaining payment over the weekend so that I can ship on Monday before it gets too cold. He thanked me for being so patient with him and seemed very sincere and polite.

I hope this means all will work out now. I do understand that having a new baby makes your life kind of nuts.

I want to thank you all for helping me to take the needed steps to bring this to a close.

Gale

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Originally Posted by angllady2

Well, I sent another email.

I gave him until the 28th, which is a full month past the 90 days we agreed on.

I really hope he gets back with me and it was just a case of too busy to think about it.

I know it's completely within my rights to keep his deposit and re-sell the snake. It just feels wrong to me somehow. I'm too softhearted I guess.

I will let you guys know if I hear back from him, and what he has to say if he does.

Gale

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THIS imo, is wgat makes a good seller, stuff happens, and people have bad luck. I had to turn down a bumblebee female because I had a tire blow and had to get a new set, the breeder was nice and and understanding..


As long as you only keep the non refundavle deposit there is nothibg wrobg.. he's past what you set, but like I said it makes you a good seller to comprise like that and gice him the extra time.

Best of luck!

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Originally Posted by coreydelong

Here-in is my dilemma.... He paid by PayPal right? The evil of all evils!!

I hate PayPal as a seller for the one reason that if the buyer does not like the even just the color of the snake when they get it, they can file a claim, get their money back and you are out the snake and money- believe me, it happens. Despite all your emails and documentation, PayPal is all for handling the money again and getting 3-5 days more interest off it while issuing a refund to the buyer.

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Paypal's official policy is that their claims handling excludes the sale of live animals. I haven't run into this myself, but I have seen it come up time and again where a buyer gets stiffed after paying through Paypal and they ask here on the forums what to do about it, the general response is "Paypal MIGHT help, but they don't offer buyer protection on animal sales." They'd probably just as soon not get involved in animal transactions, likely for the reason you're describing, it's too easy to be less than honest about what it means to be a "satisfied customer" when you're talking living things rather than dry goods.

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Originally Posted by SaintTawny

...I have seen it come up time and again where a buyer gets stiffed after paying through Paypal and they ask here on the forums what to do about it, the general response is "Paypal MIGHT help, but they don't offer buyer protection on animal sales."

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This is correct. HOWEVER if you link your PP account to your credit card and pay that way, you can file a dispute with your credit card company and you have a much better chance of getting your money refunded from them than from PP.

As for the OP, it looks like everything is working out just fine. Most of the time patience and flexibility is all it takes to make a transaction go smoothly. :)

I would double check the laws in your area but as far as I see it he didn't pay in the amount of time agreed upon. You gave him extra time and he still didn't pay. In the time he was making payment you have been a reptile sitter. You have paid money for power, food, and upkeep. You have also invested your time. If you where running a business of housing reptiles for people you would probably be owed more money then he has paid (just guessing here).

Long story short; I would print out all the emails and save them somewhere safe and resell the PB if you still want to or just keep it. Let him take you to court if he wants. He broke the contract. You're fine. If your heart tells you something else then cut him a break if you want but I wouldn't.

You never know, maybe the wife didn't know he was buying the BP and cut him off financially.

BTW, I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV. Don't yell at me if what I said is wrong in your area.