Need a deescription of these morphs please?

Hi folks,
My name is Amanda, and I'm legally blind (I can't see anything). I am interested in getting a ball python morph, but I don't know which one I want! I would browse breeder pages, but I can't see the pictures. Is there someone out there that can give good descriptions of some morphs for me?
First I would like to know what the original looks like so that I have a base line comparison.
Here's my list:
honeybee
pastel
super pastel
(I know this is the result of a double recessive gene, what makes it different from the regular?)
bumble bee
firefly
black pastel
black pewter
chocolate
ivory
lesser
spector
stingerbee
woma
vanilla

Any descriptions of the above would be great. I may not be able to see it, but I want a pretty snake.
Also, not sure if this makes a difference, but I want a male because I already have a orange hypo female, and I don't really know what she looks like either. haha

Thanks much,
-Amanda Ellen

http://static.freepik.com/free-photo...-403125921.jpg

Um, what are those supposed to be exactly?

They see me trollin... they hatin...

you could start out by telling us what colors out of the following you prefer:

black, brown, yellow, grey, light grey, white, orange. (lavender hues, pink hues, and purple hues are also possible).

or when you just want something really visual.... you cannot go wrong with a piebald or ivory or bumble bee.

Out of the list you provided, I prefer black, brown, white, orange, and of course pink and purple are acceptable. :)
I would like to know patterns as well as colors.
Oh, can you tell me about the bumblebee and Ivory?

Thanks for responding.
-Amanda Ellen

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Originally Posted by Pythonfriend

you could start out by telling us what colors out of the following you prefer:

black, brown, yellow, grey, light grey, white, orange. (lavender hues, pink hues, and purple hues are also possible).

or when you just want something really visual.... you cannot go wrong with a piebald or ivory or bumble bee.

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First off, what's your budget?

Hopefully I don't sound uneducated with this question...

How are you able to navigate to this page without seeing what you are doing?

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Originally Posted by cory9oh4

Hopefully I don't sound uneducated with this question...

How are you able to navigate to this page without seeing what you are doing?

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Software called a Screen reader is needed.


Blind people have a few options on using computers.
The simplest is a mac. Most products now days from apple have Voice Over. This is on the Ios devices, and the OSX OS.
Just browse to settings > general > accessibility > Voice Over, or hit CMD F-5 on a mac. :)

On windows, you have a few options of screen reader software, one of the most popular is JAWS http://www.freedomscientific.com. NVDA is a free alternative, and a program called Window Eyes is another payed option.

Now that was prob more info than you'll ever need on blind peoples computers, but there you go. lol

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Originally Posted by taylor9209

Software called a Screen reader is needed.


Blind people have a few options on using computers.
The simplest is a mac. Most products now days from apple have Voice Over. This is on the Ios devices, and the OSX OS.
Just browse to settings > general > accessibility > Voice Over, or hit CMD F-5 on a mac. :)

On windows, you have a few options of screen reader software, one of the most popular is JAWS http://www.freedomscientific.com. NVDA is a free alternative, and a program called Window Eyes is another payed option.

Now that was prob more info than you'll ever need on blind peoples computers, but there you go. lol

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Very interesting. Thanks for the information!

Were you born blind or do you know what colors look like? I'm not trying to be mean but we cant describe them unless you know what the colors look like that we're talking about lol.

What's your budget for this male?

I went blind at the age of 18, so I have a good grasp on my colors. That whole going blind thing is probably a story for another day though. :) I would say I wouldn't want to spend more than $450 wit or without shipping.

oh ok :)

so with a good description you can imagine it.

the piebald is a very visual morph, parts of the snake are completely white (and it is a very pure white) but it has areas where it shows normal coloration, the head also has normal color. with sharp edges seperating the two. imagine a completely white snake, now give it a normal colored head, and then take some circular pieces of paper of different size and glue them on the back of the snake, roll them down the sides. the areas where the hypothetical paper would be get outlines, and get filled with normal color and patterning. its quite random, some are 90% white leaving pretty much only the head, some are only 10% white, many are inbetween. You cannot go wrong with a 50% white pied.

The ivory (super form of yellowbelly) is a nearly completely white snake with dark eyes and often a faint yellow stripe right above the spine. they have a bit of light grey on the top of the head and the sides of the head.

Bumble bee is harder to describe. it features black, yellow, and white. Basically we have a pattern morph, spider, that reduces much of the pattern, so we get black near the spine, sometimes two lines of black, sometimes one very wiggly line. and from these black areas, you have some black lines going vertically down the sides. between and around that you have yellow, which often turns into light brown as they age. in the lower half of the body (assuming the snake is horizontal, so i mean, closer to the belly) you get some white coming in and replacing some of the yellow. The head looks quite unusual, with some symmetrical pattern of black and yellow on top of the head. its a combination of spider, which changes the pattern, and pastel, which brightens up the colors and replaces much of the brown with yellow.

stinger bee and honey bee and other things like queen bee are variations on this theme, with different genes involved, but always with spider.

oh, i didnt notice your post where you say 450 dollars is the limit. a bumble bee is definitively lower than 450, im not so sure about piebald or ivory, i think they are still a bit higher. Others know the prices better than i do.

Firefly or black pewter would be in your price range as well, they are also quite visual since they are also 2-gene combinations.

Sounds pretty cool! So far I like the Ivory. Can you tell me what the firefly and black pewter look like too?
Does it being male change the coloration in any way?

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Originally Posted by Amanda1226

Sounds pretty cool! So far I like the Ivory. Can you tell me what the firefly and black pewter look like too?
Does it being male change the coloration in any way?

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Color and pattern are individual to the morph and to the snake, sex has no bearing on it.

You could probably find male ivories for $450... At the last expo i saw a lot for $500 to $600.

Fireflies are yellow with lots of blushing. Their patterns can vary from busy to more reduced. Their heads should be very blushed too.

Black pewters are a combination pastel and black pastel. They're a dark grey snake overall with a busy looking pattern. Their pattern is grainy and shattered looking.

If you're questioning any purchase please feel free to message me on here and i'd be happy to do whatever i can to help. I agree, even if you can't see it, you should still get a hot looking snake!!

When you say normal, does she know what normal ball pythons look like?

For the record, I think this thread is absolutely awesome! It's great you guys are helping her out. It's also great to see OP active on the forum.

I wish I was able to give a detailed description and it make sense to someone else other than myself lol.

Ok, thanks much guys!
The black pewter sounds pretty cool. What does the regular balls look like?
I have never seen a snake before. Can someone describe the pastel and super pastel?
Also, what is the difference between an albino and an ivory? I mean I know the definition of albino when it comes to other animal species, what does it mean to a ball?
I want a snake that is somewhat colorful (pretty colors) but I also don't want just stripes. I hope that makes sense.

if you like the ivory, you might consider a blue eyed leucistic, also called BEL.

many of these are all-white snakes with blue eyes. for a completely white snake with blue eyes, you could choose a lesser mojave or a lesser mystic or lesser phantom.

the super mojave is almost all white with blue eyes, but it has a light grey head. and the body also has a tiny little bit of grey in the white.

oh, and, super just means that the python carries two copies of the gene in question. sometimes the super form of a codominant gene is just an amplified version of the simple codominant, and sometimes the super form looks radically different.

for example, while it would be really hard to describe the differences between a yellowbelly ball python and a normal ball python, the super form of yellowbelly, the ivory ball, is radically different and quite easy to describe.

How do you maintain husbandry?
With temp and humid gauges and such, you got someone else doing the whole deal?

Thanks for those suggestions!
I have been looking around, and what does the fire or cinnamon balls look like? I would assume some serious earthy tones, but not sure.
I would love to get the BEL, but I have a feeling they are currently out of my price range.

No, I have a system that uploads my temps and humidity to a webpage that I can look at it there or download it into an excel file and read myself. I use a herpstat for my hot side UTH, and I had to have sighted assistance to set that up.
Other than that, it's a lot of going by smell and touch.

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Originally Posted by Amanda1226

No, I have a system that uploads my temps and humidity to a webpage that I can look at it there or download it into an excel file and read myself. I use a herpstat for my hot side UTH, and I had to have sighted assistance to set that up.
Other than that, it's a lot of going by smell and touch.

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Touche'

So do you just reach in to get the snake out and trust it won't bite you lol?

Don't we all?

You're a brave one!! I'd advise getting the best tempered the breeder has :)

morph prices are falling from season to season, and i dont see blue eye leucistics as being higher than ivories. I guess one year from now both will be in your price range.

cinnamon is easy, it makes everything darker and the pattern often gets a bit more organized. some are all dark above the spine and only have pattern on the side, some have some striping above the spine and side paterning, some look quite normal but darker, they have much daker browns going towards black.

fire, hard to tell, compared to a normal it makes the pattern a bit strange and the browns get a bit more grey and the yellows get pulled toward white a bit. it brightens everything up a bit, and especially so in the regions that are already light-colored.

single-gene cinnamon and single-gene fire are not really stunners, not quite like a bumble bee or an ivory or a firefly (fire + pastel) or a blue eye leucistic.

but the super-forms are quite dramatic. a super cinnamon unfortunately sometimes has a bit of a deformed upper lip, called duckbill, its somewhat enlarged. apart from that issue that some have, its a patternless dark brown snake. very dark, no pattern. The super fire is a white snake with random yellow blotches on the spine, with black eyes where you can if the light is right see red pupils. Another variation of an almost white snake.

If you want a variant of the white snakes, i think super fire may be more expensive and ivories look nicer. and the blue eye leucistics all have these wonderful blue eyes.

on their own, fire and cinnamon and yellowbelly dont quite do enough that a person who is not experienced with how they are supposed to look like would go WOW thats amazing. Some lessers and mojaves do look awesome, but unless someone knows how a normal ball python is supposed to look like they will just assume thats how they are supposed to look like. And i think you want something where people see that it is not just a normal snake, but something really fancy, even if they know nothing about snakes.

EDIT: Dont underestimate blind people, especially on the internet, just DONT. I have been utterly destroyed by blind people in online chess, repeatedly. You can always find electronics that by whatever means send their data via USB or wireless to the computer and some blind people wizardry then transforms it into an audible signal or sends an SMS or whatever. I dont know how, but from experience i know blind people have their ways to get things done. And they know how to ask for help if they need help, which is not the case here. So far the question is how certain morphs look like and figuring out a morph she likes. if she would need advice for husbandry etc, she would ask.

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

Color and pattern are individual to the morph and to the snake, sex has no bearing on it.

You could probably find male ivories for $450... At the last expo i saw a lot for $500 to $600.

Fireflies are yellow with lots of blushing. Their patterns can vary from busy to more reduced. Their heads should be very blushed too.

Black pewters are a combination pastel and black pastel. They're a dark grey snake overall with a busy looking pattern. Their pattern is grainy and shattered looking.

If you're questioning any purchase please feel free to message me on here and i'd be happy to do whatever i can to help. I agree, even if you can't see it, you should still get a hot looking snake!!

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I just got a male Ivory from the Daytona show for $325 (got it pretty cheap) and saw a larger one (guessing around 600-700 grams) for $400. Also just saw some male ivorys for $375 to $450 at the tampa reptile show today.

Another thing I just thought of, is that to ask about the temperament of the snake, you probably don't want an aggressive one. I have a few balls, and most are plenty friendly, but a couple will strike if you just reach in, not being able to see to read their body language could get you bit. Not trying to discourage you, just be careful.

i am confident Amanda1226 knows what she wants and is informed that you get hit more often when you cannot plan how to exactly reach into the enclosure. there will be some bites. a few more than usual, and usually bites are rather infrequent. And noone complains because they heal so rapidly. Some ball pythons never bite a human. it varies.

anyway, if it happens, there are two different bites. one is called the tag, you get teeth, but the python immediately retreats. needle pinches followed by nothing. just a more extreme version of hissing or fake striking / head bumping.

Then there is the food bite, when your BP mistakes your hand for food. These can be quite nasty, because the python will keep up the pressure and wont release immediately. Often they release when you blow out air hard against their nose. Spraying water on the head will also often get them to release. Also they release on their own after a while. these are far more likely to occur when there is rhodent smell in the air, or during feeding.

anyway, it heals really very fast. and its all needle pinches.

What I'm most curious about, why in the world would the morph matter if you can't see it? I don't want to sounds rude - this is an honest question

AHAHA, pretty much. I have been lucky thus far and haven't been bit. My hypo girl seems very contented for me to pick her up... probably because I am so warm. :)

I was sure to ask about the temperament of the last (first one) one I bought. I got her from Royal Constrictors and that guy was really nice and good to work with. I am open to using other breeders, but I want someone to be onest with me about if I am getting an aggressive snake or not. I do not want an aggressive snake, because I am blind and I like to touch things since I can't see them.

I always try to not put my hands in her space when it is the day of feeding, or 2-3 days after feeding. So far, that has helped me not get bit. I figure if you respect their space and respect their time needed to feed and digest, that gives me (the human) the best chance of not getting bit.
I will consider getting a spray bottle though, in case I get the 2nd kind of bite were she won't let go.
-Amanda Ellen

Because I don't interact strictly with only other blind people. I want a showy snake for those in my life that can see. I also have an imagination, and like anyone else I like nice things.

I'm glad you came for assistance! Personally, my favorite morph is the Pewter, which is sort of greys and browns mottled together with the busy typical pattern, and if you get lucky there are some lavender tones in there too. =]

Thanks for the input. That does sound interesting, but don't they look kind of bland?

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Originally Posted by Amanda1226

Thanks for the input. That does sound interesting, but don't they look kind of bland?

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Pewters don't look bland at all IMO. They're beautiful snakes. It's a matter if personal opinion, though. Everyone has a different idea of what beauty is...

This also could be a thing where being blind and not being able to see it fools the mind. I just want something that will "pop" and is pretty. If that makes sense...
-Amanda Ellen

If you want something that 'pops' and is visually pleasing, I suggest a pied or good old fashion albino. They remain stunning throughout their entire life. Most other morphs dull quite a bit as they age unless they have hypo. Hypo gene makes everything nice as well.

Albino is a white and yellow snake. The pattern of the snake is yellow on top of the white. This is always a fan favorite for everyone.

Pied is a snake that has various white segments. For example, the head and neck can be patterned black and gold while the rest of its body is pure white.

Some other Pieds have a patterned head and a few sections with more black and gold pattern. Between each patterned section is pure white. So its almost like someone cut up two snakes and put them together.
I hope that makes sense...

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

Ok, so when you say yellow on an Albino, are we talking like an off-white or creamy yellow... or is it more like a goldish/ school bus yellow? What is the difference between a high white albino and a normal albino?

Also, can someone explain the pastel and super pastel?

You guys are helping me narrow my list. :)
-Amanda Ellen

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Originally Posted by Amanda1226

Ok, so when you say yellow on an Albino, are we talking like an off-white or creamy yellow... or is it more like a goldish/ school bus yellow? What is the difference between a high white albino and a normal albino?


You guys are helping me narrow my list. :)
-Amanda Ellen

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If you get a high contrast Albino, they are light orange as babies. But have a lovely, sunflower yellow coloration as adults. So they are sunflower yellow and pure white.

High white just means there's a lot of white in their pattern and on their body than normal. I personally don't like high white albinos. The yellow is their trade mark in my opinion.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

Oh, now I think I would like the high white.
Just hypothetically speaking, if I wanted to breed my orange hypo female with something, would an albino make a good match up?
-Amanda Ellen

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Originally Posted by kat_black181

Pewters don't look bland at all IMO. They're beautiful snakes. It's a matter if personal opinion, though. Everyone has a different idea of what beauty is...

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I think they look really cool as babies, very silver and black, but they do tend to get more brown and more dull as they get larger. Although I did end up with one that stayed lighter as it got bigger (might have something else in it)

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...something-else

Also the albinos tend to have the lines between the yellow and white become more blurry, not as sharp, as they get larger.
Pieds don't tend to change as they grow, well the normal looking parts do what the normals do, but the white and the sharpness does not change.
Ivories are ones that I think get better as they get larger. They have a little faded color when small, and when they get larger, that color tends to fade off more, and you get closer to fully white snake, with a light yellow stripe down the spine.

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Originally Posted by Amanda1226

Oh, now I think I would like the high white.
Just hypothetically speaking, if I wanted to breed my orange hypo female with something, would an albino make a good match up?
-Amanda Ellen

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I don't know about the eventual combination I'm pretty sure you are thinking of (albino and orange hypo), but I just wanted to make sure you realized that albino is a recessive, and if bred with anything other than an albino or something that is het for albino, the albino won't add anything to the babies visually. They will all be het for albino. It wouldn't be until the second generation, when you use the new hets you just got, back to either a het or an albino, before you get anything visual out of the albino.

not sure how well this translates, but playing with this page will help you see what you can get when you cross different morphs, as least by name.
http://www.worldofballpythons.com/wizard/

Oh ok! Now that makes sense. I understand completely now.
Ok, so I'm leaning towards an albino, but I want to be sure.
Can someone describe the pastel and super pastel so I can either decide if they are on or off my list? :)
-Amanda Ellen

I would go with a pied, as well! They are absolutely beautiful snakes, with such a mesmerizing array of beautiful orange patterning with crisp sharp white. Always a crowd pleaser! I just got a male for $400 shipped, too!

Pastels often have the same patterning as normals, but where normals are brownish-gold, pastels are bright yellow-gold. They aren't so flashy by themselves, but they are an awesome enhancer gene for other morphs, if breeding is in your plans. It's also very important to find a good-quality pastel, as they tend to brown out and look more like normals as they gain size. But a well-bred pastel will keep it's high-yellow tones.

As to the super form, I don't know much about it, so hopefully someone else can chime in.


Sent from my cool hide

What about a banana? Or a toffino? Both of those are pretty. Youd probably like a good quality bee too, which is bright yellow and white with a black pattern. Bananas are yellow and lavender.

sent from my incubator

The super pastel has the same pattern as a pastel but with reduced black (washed out looking, in my opinion, like somebody put a pastel in the washer with bleach) and brighter yellows. The head is washed out too. I have a good quality pastel - that is, the yellows stayed bright through adulthood with only a narrow band down the spine turning brown. And I think she's visually more stunning than the super pastels that I saw in the Reptile Shows. The super pastels looked like they bleached out my pastel. But, that's just my taste.

But, my bumblebee... wow. That's one amazing snake. I bred it out myself. I have a pastel and a spider. A spider is basically a normal but instead of regular black pattern, it has more of like a spider-legs looking black pattern because the black is not splotches but thin lines. I bred them together and I got a bumblebee offspring. The bumblebee is a lighter yellow than his pastel mother. In computer-speak, the yellow on the pastel is about RGB(255 230 0) while the bumblebee is about (255 255 110). And it has spidery black lines instead of black splotches. He looks like candy!

I saw a Killer Bee at a show too (super pastel spider) and it's the same feeling I got when I saw the super pastel. It's like they took Jack, my bumblebee, and put it in the washing machine with bleach. LOL.

Oh, and about breeding with your orange hypo... if you get a bumblebee het orange hypo (orange ghost), you can breed it to your orange hypo and get a whole world of possibilities!

If you can't find a bumblebee that's het for orange ghost, you can raise up your own and wait for the 2nd generation. Basically, you breed a bumblebee with your OG then take a bumblebee offspring from that pairing and breed back to the mother in about 2 years to achieve the ghost to ghost pairing. I like the Honeybee (spider OG) that you can possibly produce. It is like a bumblebee but instead of yellow you get butterscotch-looking color (or whatever your orange ghost looks like - sometimes they look a bit greenish from what I saw at the Reptile show). You can also potentially get a humblebee which is basically a ghost bumblebee. I've never seen one in person so I can't really tell you what it looks like. But from the pictures I see, it seems like it's a bumblebee with more pop to it. I can't really explain it much... maybe somebody here can.

I just like that bumblebee/OG pairing because of the wonderful possibilities of offspring. But having a bumblebee is, in and of itself, having one awesomely visual snake that is sure to wow your friends!

If you already have a hypo girl, a honeybee male is a nice addition, because he can make more hypos and honey bees with your girl. I really like my hypo female. She really does have a faded, ghostly orange look to her. I wasn't a fan of ghosts and hypos originally, but everyone compliments her. Honeybees look like that, but brighter, with the dark areas reduced that spiderweb pattern along the back.

I currently have 4 pewters in the house (!!!) because my pewter female has laid eggs two years in a row. They're gorgeous when they hatch out, light silver etched with smoky gray, but a lot of them will brown out with age. Cinnamon pewters are much nicer than black pewters, which are kind of mud colored to begin with.

If you want a snake with the most visual bang, go with a white snake or a pied or a high-contrast albino. My super mojave is kind of "dirty" for a white snake, like she rolled in charcoal right before I picked her up, but everyone thinks she is the prettiest thing ever. She also seems to sense that she'd last exactly three seconds out in nature, and she goes out of her way to be cute and friendly.

I really like buying from Justin Kobylka and Heather Wong. Heather's been very honest about temperament with me: the pastel and pewter I got from her were both biters. The pastel stopped after the first feeding, I guess she was just hungry. But the pewter kept chomping away at me for most of the first year that I had her. Temperament isn't completely clear until they've had a few meals. Some nice babies are biting because they're hungry and they don't know what to eat yet. Some super mean babies aren't biting yet because they're too busy curling up into balls and freaking out and being neurotic. My pewter started out neurotic and anti-social, and then switched to biting.

Both snakes I got from Justin Kobylka were super zen.