Sudden death of young ball python

Hey everyone

Tragically my young spider het. axanthic ball python male, Tweek, passed away, I really need to know what caused his death and I really need some help.

I found my young male spider het. axanthic ball python dead this morning, he looked as if half of his skull had caved in and his brain "goo" was leaking out. He was still supple when i found him, I don't think that he had been dead for long. I have absolutely no idea what killed him, he was a healthy boy and ate like a beast, his temps and humidity were correct and he was kept on clean newspaper. He ate a mouse 4 days before he died and ate it with his usual enthusiasm. I took him out of his tank 3days after eating (a day before he died) and he seemed completely healthy. Does anyone have any idea as to what may have happened to him? I am very worried as i have other snakes, one who is also young and was housed in the same room as him (separate tanks). His history has been very healthy except for when I first got him, about 1 year ago, he got scale rot due to an internal bacterial infection (his tank is always clean) He was given antibiotics at the vet and then the all clear to come home, since then he has been perfect, he has never even refused a meal. Please help with any information as to what happened to him, I am devestated, as well as worried about the safety of my other snakes.

I am unable to post a picture unfortunately.

Thank you for your help
bobs.

Head Caved in? are you sure no one had access to him and intentionally killed him? :(((

Is there anything heavy that might have dropped on him?

A necropsy may be needed to figure it out.

Maybe something fell on him? And he tried to get out from under it?

sent from my incubator

Put him in the refrigerator (not the freezer!!!) and take him to the vet for a necropsy. Otherwise we're just speculating.

You said he's in a tank, what else is in it besides his water bowl and hides?

I know how he died. His head was smashed...

Since he would been killed pretty quickly with the item that smashed him in his cage resting on his head and since you didn't find him like that, obviously an object didn't do it.

1. Someone smashed his head closing a lid,

2. Someone smashed his head on purpose and just left him in the cage.

So now my question for the OP is... Who did it?

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Originally Posted by bcr229

Put him in the refrigerator (not the freezer!!!) and take him to the vet for a necropsy. Otherwise we're just speculating.

You said he's in a tank, what else is in it besides his water bowl and hides?

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Take him to the vet? Serious? Are you implying his head randomly exploded spontaneously from some virus or disease?

His head was smashed. That is a fact. So now it comes down to who did it and why?

OMG I am sooooo sorry for your loss. Terrible. I agree though, he was killed by another human, most likely when they tried to quickly shut the lid of the tank.

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Originally Posted by Ladybugzcrunch

OMG I am sooooo sorry for your loss. Terrible. I agree though, he was killed by another human, most likely when they tried to quickly shut the lid of the tank.

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Yes hopefully accidental.

Oh no :( I'm so sorry.

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Originally Posted by majorleaguereptiles

Take him to the vet? Serious? Are you implying his head randomly exploded spontaneously from some virus or disease?

His head was smashed. That is a fact. So now it comes down to who did it and why?

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Nope, I'm saying we don't have enough info to make any kind of judgement. Pictures of the snake, tank, lid, etc. obviously would be a great help.

We also don't know if the OP lives with anyone, though I would hope that if he does and someone else accidentally killed the snake, whoever did it would have informed the OP right away instead of letting him find out later.

I am sorry for your loss.

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Originally Posted by majorleaguereptiles

I know how he died. His head was smashed...

Since he would been killed pretty quickly with the item that smashed him in his cage resting on his head and since you didn't find him like that, obviously an object didn't do it.

1. Someone smashed his head closing a lid,

2. Someone smashed his head on purpose and just left him in the cage.

So now my question for the OP is... Who did it?

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My guess is Colonel Mustard in the library with the candlestick.

I really don't think enough information was given to use words like "obviously" or "I KNOW". It's a little soon to start accusing people, in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by BrandiR

My guess is Colonel Mustard in the library with the candlestick.

I really don't think enough information was given to use words like "obviously" or "I KNOW". It's a little soon to start accusing people, in my opinion.

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I understand this but I just can't think of any other possibility... I mean, let's propose another possible alternative... I came up with a blank. Head caved in with brain leaking is a pretty compelling evidence of a smashing.

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Originally Posted by anatess

I understand this but I just can't think of any other possibility... I mean, let's propose another possible alternative... I came up with a blank. Head caved in with brain leaking is a pretty compelling evidence of a smashing.

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Without pictures, "head smashed in" doesn't really mean anything. What was actually posted is, "looked as if half of his head had caved in". In some mind's eyes, that shows up as a smashed head, while others may interpret it it as some type of indentation. The "goo" coming out of the head could have been saliva/goo coming from its mouth for all we know.

I didn't say the proposed theory is wrong, just that it's only a theory and shouldn't be stated as fact when so little definitive information has been given. Suggest the guy ask around or something, but don't tell him that you KNOW someone did this when there isn't any concrete evidence to show that.

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Originally Posted by majorleaguereptiles

I know how he died. His head was smashed...

Since he would been killed pretty quickly with the item that smashed him in his cage resting on his head and since you didn't find him like that, obviously an object didn't do it.

1. Someone smashed his head closing a lid,

2. Someone smashed his head on purpose and just left him in the cage.

So now my question for the OP is... Who did it?

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Who unbanned BOS Reptiles?

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Originally Posted by majorleaguereptiles

1. Someone smashed his head closing a lid,

2. Someone smashed his head on purpose and just left him in the cage.

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I would have to agree with this comment .. head smashed in is caused by a severe trauma to the head .. in my opinion when someone closed the the tub he poked his head out and that person not knowingly clamped his head with the tub to the side of the rack .. and that killed him :( .. accidents happen nothing can be done about that, no matter how unfortunate the outcome is

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Originally Posted by BrandiR

Without pictures, "head smashed in" doesn't really mean anything. What was actually posted is, "looked as if half of his head had caved in". In some mind's eyes, that shows up as a smashed head, while others may interpret it it as some type of indentation. The "goo" coming out of the head could have been saliva/goo coming from its mouth for all we know.

I didn't say the proposed theory is wrong, just that it's only a theory and shouldn't be stated as fact when so little definitive information has been given. Suggest the guy ask around or something, but don't tell him that you KNOW someone did this when there isn't any concrete evidence to show that.

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Okay, let's go with that.

Head indentation, saliva out of the mouth. What would that be? I still can't find any other reason why the head would be indented besides something got pressed on it. I don't know of any known parasites that causes skull to indent. Or any disease, illness, etc.

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Originally Posted by Kodieh

Who unbanned BOS Reptiles?

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Who is BOS a Reptiles, and you quoted my comment. Makes no sense...

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Originally Posted by sasT

I would have to agree with this comment .. head smashed in is caused by a severe trauma to the head .. in my opinion when someone closed the the tub he poked his head out and that person not knowingly clamped his head with the tub to the side of the rack .. and that killed him :( .. accidents happen nothing can be done about that, no matter how unfortunate the outcome is

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x2

sent from my incubator

I have to agree with Major League based on the information given. My list would have added options:

1. intentionally smashed head (human)

2. unintentionally smashed head (human)

3. accidental smashed head with an object in cage, snake got free/ nerve twitches released it

4. head got caught between lid and cage, snake panicked and thrashed, damaged own head and died

5. snake died of something painful, mouth was gaping, jaw unhinged (giving caved in appearance), and 'goo' came from the mouth and simply collected on the head



Basically what we need to know is:

Show us the habitat, what was in it, how the lid is attached and anchored

Was the goo coming from the head coming out of an open wound or could it be the mouth? How obvious / pictures of the 'head trauma'

Who has access to the room

thanks for everyone's opinion

to clarify a few things, his head was not smashed, it had half caved in, as if from the inside it had melted, I know how crazy that sounds but really, half of his head, including his skull had gone soft... I have no explanation as to why or how.

he was housed in a tank, not a tub, with glass sliding doors nd a lock, I am the only person who deals with my snakes and th only person with keys to th tanks... his tank was simple as after his scale rot incident the vet gave me strict instructions becos he would always be prone to scale rot. he was therefor kept on newspaper, had a water bowl, two cardboard hides nd a single branch that cannot have fallen on him. I do not suspect fowl play as I am the only one who would handle him or anything...

Thanks again
bobs

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Originally Posted by bobs

thanks for everyone's opinion

to clarify a few things, his head was not smashed, it had half caved in, as if from the inside it had melted, I know how crazy that sounds but really, half of his head, including his skull had gone soft... I have no explanation as to why or how.

he was housed in a tank, not a tub, with glass sliding doors nd a lock, I am the only person who deals with my snakes and th only person with keys to th tanks... his tank was simple as after his scale rot incident the vet gave me strict instructions becos he would always be prone to scale rot. he was therefor kept on newspaper, had a water bowl, two cardboard hides nd a single branch that cannot have fallen on him. I do not suspect fowl play as I am the only one who would handle him or anything...

Thanks again
bobs

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So his skull, aka bone, melted away from the inside?

Our bones last for centuries after we die...

His head had to be crushed somehow...

In any case, I'm sorry to hear about your BP.

I'm no vet or medicine expert by any means.
But a severe infection could cause enough pressure to break through a skull. At which point pressure would be released and the skull would collapse.

Again, this is a very long shot, but just to suggest a different theory to those saying there's no other explanation than human intervention.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 4

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Originally Posted by ivanb

I'm no vet or medicine expert by any means.
But a severe infection could cause enough pressure to break through a skull. At which point pressure would be released and the skull would collapse.

Again, this is a very long shot, but just to suggest a different theory to those saying there's no other explanation than human intervention.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 4

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People with brain tumors heads don't explode, bc the pressure would kill anything before it even remotely had the potential to break bone. That's why doctors cut open peoples skulls with power tools when people have brain swelling. No infection with soft tissue can break bones from my life experience, but maybe there is something I haven't heard of.

It sounds like you are describing an abscess. Are you able to asperate some of the fluid into a sterile syring? Talk to your vet and see if he'll do cytology for you. An abscess can come up very quickly especially in reptiles.

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Originally Posted by majorleaguereptiles

People with brain tumors heads don't explode, bc the pressure would kill anything before it even remotely had the potential to break bone. That's why doctors cut open peoples skulls with power tools when people have brain swelling. No infection with soft tissue can break bones from my life experience, but maybe there is something I haven't heard of.

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Soft tissue has nothing to do with the ability of breaking through bone or not.
Have you ever seen glass (or a wall) breaking under too much water pressure?

But I insist, I'm only offering an alternative theory. I'm not one to say I KNOW what happened.

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Originally Posted by majorleaguereptiles

No infection with soft tissue can break bones from my life experience, but maybe there is something I haven't heard of.

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A soft tissue infection could have affected the bone causing it to become necrotic. That could potentially cause the bone to pathologically fracture brought on by the necrosis.

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Originally Posted by Wizard

A soft tissue infection could have affected the bone causing it to become necrotic. That could potentially cause the bone to pathologically fracture brought on by the necrosis.

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This. If the bone became infected (osteomyelitis) it could lead to what the OP is describing. The infection could have been there for some time, and since snakes can't say, "I have a headache," how would anyone know? If nerve damage was caused by the infection, the animal may not have even been in pain, which is why he was still eating and didn't appear unhealthy.

My vote is for a pathogen, not external trauma.

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I think at this point it's probably beyond anyone's ability to diagnose without pictures and/or medical tests.


Sorry for your loss :(