Hide Spaces

Hello! All my snakes have two or more hide spaces (depending on which ones need more security), and all of them are different. For example; My Ball Python has a rock hide and a log hide. Since snakes will choose security over properly heating themselves, should all my snakes have all the same hides spaces in their enclosures (I.E Ball Python: Two rocks hides, instead of rock hide and log hide)? Then they would have absolutely no reason to choose whichever feels more secure, and they might do a little better job at heating/cooling their body temps, right? All my snakes will go to their less secure hides to regulate body temps if they need to, but they almost seem reluctant and I don't want that. Thanks in advanced

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Originally Posted by B.O.S Reptiles

Hello! All my snakes have two or more hide spaces (depending on which ones need more security), and all of them are different. For example; My Ball Python has a rock hide and a log hide. Since snakes will choose security over properly heating themselves, should all my snakes have all the same hides spaces in their enclosures (I.E Ball Python: Two rocks hides, instead of rock hide and log hide)? Then they would have absolutely no reason to choose whichever feels more secure, and they might do a little better job at heating/cooling their body temps, right? All my snakes will go to their less secure hides to regulate body temps if they need to, but they almost seem reluctant and I don't want that. Thanks in advanced

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All snakes should have two identical hides. If money is an issue there are things you can do to still make a good hide, but the black box hides from like Reptile basics are nice, though I get mine from Pagnea because I don't like his shipping prices.

But they are DIY tutorials on how to make your own hides cheaper, but the thing is to make them tight fitting.

Some of my setups have two different hides. I don't worry about them being identical as long as both hides get used. If you have proper hides and proper husbandry there should be no reason to worry. My brb has two identical hides but he hardly ever uses the one on top of the uth. Being that his cage temps are good it presents no issue for him.

If the log hide you referred to OP is a half log with two large opened ends it is not a good choice for a ball.

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Originally Posted by Neal

All snakes should have two identical hides.

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I hope my snakes don't find out about this requirement...

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Originally Posted by sho220

I hope my snakes don't find out about this requirement...

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Let's not be picky and start an issue over this. You've been here and seen enough to know that the hides should be similar, not have to be identical. But somebody reading this thread and seeing they can be different can be taken the wrong way. Who's to say my idea of different isn't vaguely different from another person. Does it have to be the same exact size? No. Same material? No. So in their mind they can go do two way different hides and then it's because it was briefly read and it said they don't have to be identical.

We recommend stuff that is easier for newer keepers to understand because something we have that we've all acquired over time in dealing with snakes they don't have. I know the hides don't have to be identical, but I have experience. Most of us recommend not to bother feeding new snakes but they have people who have been here for years that do this regardless, because while know they won't always eat, others may freak out because there new snake isn't eating. Some veteran members recommend new keepers to not feed during shed, but I know many many if not most of us veteran keepers feed while they're in shed, or at least offer.

It's different when talking from one veteran to another versus a veteran to a new keeper. So again, let's not start an issue here.

EDIT:
A prime example is BOS using a log hide and a rock hide. That log hide has two entrances versus if it's the exo terra rock hide I'm thinking of has one, that means less security and at some point in the time he's been a member on the forums he's read that the hides don't have to be identical, so that's where that came into play. If somebody says similar the definition of similar can vary by so much it's not even funny. Identical is safer when talking to a new person for this exact reason.

My hides aren't identical but he uses them both. He prefers his warm hide though. Even if I switch the hides themselves, he'll keep close to the hotspot. (Makes me want to partition his 40gal and put a girlfriend next door to him :P)

Sent from my warm hide

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Originally Posted by Archimedes

My hides aren't identical but he uses them both. He prefers his warm hide though. Even if I switch the hides themselves, he'll keep close to the hotspot. (Makes me want to partition his 40gal and put a girlfriend next door to him :P)

Sent from my warm hide

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No but I'd bet that they're very close in size/space and the way he fits in them though, right?

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Originally Posted by Neal

No but I'd bet that they're very close in size/space and the way he fits in them though, right?

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Yeah, the coverage area's about the same. His cool hide is a little roomier, but when he uses it he tends to sit halfway outside it anyway. Its where he parks his butt when he's hungry, hahah.

Sent from my warm hide

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Originally Posted by Neal

It's different when talking from one veteran to another versus a veteran to a new keeper. So again, let's not start an issue here.

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Absolutely...let's keep the misinformation train chugging along...you MUST provide identical hides, you MUST not feed more often than once a week, you MUST not feed during sheds, you MUST keep them at 86.23572 degrees on the cold side and 91.42553 on the hot side, if you feed a snake the day you get it, it will EXPLODE, you may not, under any circumstances, handle your snake until a full 48 hours after it's last meal.

IMO you're doing newbs a disservice by passing along absolutes like that...why not just explain to them like you explained in your reply to me...
:confusd:

And in order to not start an "issue", this will be my last post on this thread...
:gj:

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Originally Posted by sho220

Absolutely...let's keep the misinformation train chugging along...you MUST provide identical hides, you MUST not feed more often than once a week, you MUST not feed during sheds, you MUST keep them at 86.23572 degrees on the cold side and 91.42553 on the hot side, if you feed a snake the day you get it, it will EXPLODE, you may not, under any circumstances, handle your snake until a full 48 hours after it's last meal.

IMO you're doing newbs a disservice by passing along absolutes like that...why not just explain to them like you explained in your reply to me...
:confusd:

And in order to not start an "issue", this will be my last post on this thread...
:gj:

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I'm going to edit my reply and keep it simple. I never said MUST. I was only trying to be simple and to the point. Stop trolling now sho, you already troll enough threads.

Neal,

Sho has a point. If you don't want to explain something that you believe needs to be explained don't post a simple answer that is not totally true. Wait until you feel like sharing a detailed post or just let somebody else. Not that I think this question needed alot of detail. You did say "all snakes" which dooms your post out of the gate with incorrect information.

I do understand what you are saying about giving advise to new hobbyist but how else are they to learn? However accidentally giving incorrect information is more of a disservice to new hobbyist than vague information. They can always ask for more details but may not question information started as a fact.

Try to post it right the first time and you won't have to respond in detail later. Like your edit about the half log. You should have shared that in your first post.

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Originally Posted by KMG

Neal,

Sho has a point. If you don't want to explain something that you believe needs to be explained don't post a simple answer that is not totally true. Wait until you feel like sharing a detailed post or just let somebody else. Not that I think this question needed alot of detail. You did say "all snakes" which dooms your post out of the gate with incorrect information.

I do understand what you are saying about giving advise to new hobbyist but how else are they to learn? However accidentally giving incorrect information is more of a disservice to new hobbyist than vague information. They can always ask for more details but may not question information started as a fact.

Try to post it right the first time and you won't have to respond in detail later. Like your edit about the half log. You should have shared that in your first post.

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No he doesn't have a point. I don't mind sharing details but as much as we answer the question about hides, it's just better to say identical. It's not incorrect information though, it's always best to try to provide two identical hides because what if the snake prefers one over the other and it's not the temperature he really wants, this is one of the many reasons a snake can be stressed. A BP will choose security over temperature, and because of this I've seen burns and all that because of incorrect husbandry. I answered it shortly with the a direct answer and he wanted to come troll to make an audience.

Point out my incorrect information please. How about you know what you're talking about before you come to me talking about anything being incorrect information. An identical hide is always going to be better for any given snake, regardless of it being a BP or not. Some snakes won't even use a hide as is the case with my Rufous Beaked who have a highway under the substrate, but I still provide two identical hides even though I only really see it used during shed.

EDIT:
Also you should try to understand the reason I edited my original post instead of assuming you knew why. I never said anything about it being half log because I don't know if it is or not. I made a general statement. Log hides come in half and whole. I don't know what he has so I didn't assume like you assuming the reason I edited my post.

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Originally Posted by Neal

Let's not be picky and start an issue over this. You've been here and seen enough to know that the hides should be similar, not have to be identical. But somebody reading this thread and seeing they can be different can be taken the wrong way. Who's to say my idea of different isn't vaguely different from another person. Does it have to be the same exact size? No. Same material? No. So in their mind they can go do two way different hides and then it's because it was briefly read and it said they don't have to be identical.

We recommend stuff that is easier for newer keepers to understand because something we have that we've all acquired over time in dealing with snakes they don't have. I know the hides don't have to be identical, but I have experience. Most of us recommend not to bother feeding new snakes but they have people who have been here for years that do this regardless, because while know they won't always eat, others may freak out because there new snake isn't eating. Some veteran members recommend new keepers to not feed during shed, but I know many many if not most of us veteran keepers feed while they're in shed, or at least offer.

It's different when talking from one veteran to another versus a veteran to a new keeper. So again, let's not start an issue here.

EDIT:
A prime example is BOS using a log hide and a rock hide. That log hide has two entrances versus if it's the exo terra rock hide I'm thinking of has one, that means less security and at some point in the time he's been a member on the forums he's read that the hides don't have to be identical, so that's where that came into play. If somebody says similar the definition of similar can vary by so much it's not even funny. Identical is safer when talking to a new person for this exact reason.

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That was a very well said post Neal! :gj:

sent from my incubator

I like to use paper towel and toilet paper rolls around my cages - not as hides, but as security for when snakes are on the prowl. For the hides, I also like some of the small animal products as they can be more natural looking, easier to clean, and CHEAPER than the reptile ones! Funny though, about the half log thing. I have about 5 hides in Beau's tank (he's just a hatchling so there's enough room for that many) plus all of the rolls and fake plants, and his favourite spot during the day is the half log hide! I even have an empty (clean) cardboard coffee cup halved and on top of the log, which he uses occasionally, but so far every day he's in that half log! He hasn't even touched the rock hide, which is RIGHT next to the log and both are evenly covering the UTH. Too funny!

I would say though, OP, if you notice your snake seems hesitant to move hides, try adding one more into the mix (so like one on the hot side, one on the cool side, one in the middle). If you don't want to buy anymore identical hides, you can always make them. Depending on the size of your snake, you can cut cardboard boxes/cereal boxes, tissue boxes, coffe cups, etc. and throw away once dirtied.

:)

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Originally Posted by Neal

No he doesn't have a point. I don't mind sharing details but as much as we answer the question about hides, it's just better to say identical. It's not incorrect information though, it's always best to try to provide two identical hides because what if the snake prefers one over the other and it's not the temperature he really wants, this is one of the many reasons a snake can be stressed. A BP will choose security over temperature, and because of this I've seen burns and all that because of incorrect husbandry. I answered it shortly with the a direct answer and he wanted to come troll to make an audience.

Point out my incorrect information please. How about you know what you're talking about before you come to me talking about anything being incorrect information. An identical hide is always going to be better for any given snake, regardless of it being a BP or not. Some snakes won't even use a hide as is the case with my Rufous Beaked who have a highway under the substrate, but I still provide two identical hides even though I only really see it used during shed.

EDIT:
Also you should try to understand the reason I edited my original post instead of assuming you knew why. I never said anything about it being half log because I don't know if it is or not. I made a general statement. Log hides come in half and whole. I don't know what he has so I didn't assume like you assuming the reason I edited my post.

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Wow!!! Thanks for the neg rep and email Neal. I guess I hit a nerve. I was not trying to start anything with you and thought I was plainly stating my opinion in a polite way. I guess I failed.

If your snake chooses a secure hide and gets burned that the owners fault, not the snakes. Like you said it is because of incorrect husbandry, it has nothing to do with the hides. Have to of the same hides will also not always keep a snake from getting burned if the hotspot is to hot. My ball has two very different hides and stays in the warm hide most of the time but since the temps are correct their is no problem and I know she will not be burned. You are trying to prove a point using a different keeping issue as the reason. That doesnt work.

I also was not assuming why you put in your little edit bit. I was just suggesting that it should have been stated in your first post. What do I not know what Im talking about? The comment "all snakes need two identical hides" is incorrect. I guess I need to add some to my gtp cage. Or I need to add another hide in my bloods cages since I use one hide and one side of crumpled newspaper.


EDIT:

Neals Comment: Clearly I can say waht I want and edit or repost if I didn't get to type it in the first time. It's called using a cell phone.

My question: Why do I not get to do the same?

I understand all sides here but this just required a simple answer.

Is he eating, pooping, and shedding normally with good temps being offered? If so, job well done. If not, then maybe its time to start questioning your setup (ie. Hides, etc) Unless your snakes talk to you, the only way to know they are stressed is looking for the signs (eating, shedding, etc).

The care of BP's isn't as simple as the traditional pet trade makes them out to be but its not rocket science either. If he's not burning himself, then leave him be. Maybe he likes it hot.

Just my 2¢. That's why they personal. Cause everyone has their own opinion.

Just like Skiploders post on Zen and herps

There is no "right way" as long as they are having a quality life

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Originally Posted by KMG

Wow!!! Thanks for the neg rep and email Neal. I guess I hit a nerve. I was not trying to start anything with you and thought I was plainly stating my opinion in a polite way. I guess I failed.

If your snake chooses a secure hide and gets burned that the owners fault, not the snakes. Like you said it is because of incorrect husbandry, it has nothing to do with the hides. Have to of the same hides will also not always keep a snake from getting burned if the hotspot is to hot. My ball has two very different hides and stays in the warm hide most of the time but since the temps are correct their is no problem and I know she will not be burned. You are trying to prove a point using a different keeping issue as the reason. That doesnt work.

I also was not assuming why you put in your little edit bit. I was just suggesting that it should have been stated in your first post. What do I not know what Im talking about? The comment "all snakes need two identical hides" is incorrect. I guess I need to add some to my gtp cage. Or I need to add another hide in my bloods cages since I use one hide and one side of crumpled newspaper.


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Neals Comment: Clearly I can say waht I want and edit or repost if I didn't get to type it in the first time. It's called using a cell phone.

My question: Why do I not get to do the same?

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Well when you call me out for something you think you know about and you don't I grade accordingly. You didn't hit a nerve at all. The thing is it's always best to have identical hides, do you need them? No. Do you need any hides? No. Some things you just don't explain because it gets involved in depth and it makes the same point in the end. It's easier to say all snakes then to say well some snakes don't need hides, but for BP's you want identical hides. Then they ask what other snakes don't and do? Then I have to answer more questions that was easier to state in the first place. Also I know what snakes BOS has which is why I said what I did. I don't deal with bloods and GTP don't use hides, but why go into depth about something he doesn't have?

I am not entirely certain why threads started by B.O.S. tend to turn out with people throwing rocks at each other.

This time I don't think it's OPs fault...

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Originally Posted by Mephibosheth1

This time I don't think it's OPs fault...

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Agreed.

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Originally Posted by Mephibosheth1

This time I don't think it's OPs fault...

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No it's because people want to be trolls and wake up a thorn up where it shouldn't be. That's all. BOS was asking a question about his snakes and it was answered.

@Neal

Time to switch hides friend, you're getting cranky in the one your in:fishslap:

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Originally Posted by wienkeg

@Neal

Time to switch hides friend, you're getting cranky in the one your in:fishslap:

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I'm not getting cranky, but thanks for assuming?

EDIT:
I just stand by what I say and I'll defend what I say.

I cannot keep up these threads lol

Don't worry about it; I think most of use have had threads that got away from us....whether it's feedback reviews or club ideas lol

I don't get using absolutes for newbies, or using absolutes to dumb down a concept 'for newbies'. Two secure hides=/=two identical hides. I used a coconut shell and a dragon hide and she used both of them, feed, shed and pooped while using both of them. As long as she's doing normal snake things, I'm not too concerned whether or not my hides matched. Different people keep different ways- if their animals are safe and happy, thats fine.

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Originally Posted by sunshinenorcas

I don't get using absolutes for newbies, or using absolutes to dumb down a concept 'for newbies'.

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The only absolute for newbies is don't use a danged UTH without a thermostat. As for the hides, my BP's all have two, not necessarily identical, and I've seen them using both so I figure they're happy.

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Originally Posted by bcr229

The only absolute for newbies is don't use a danged UTH without a thermostat. As for the hides, my BP's all have two, not necessarily identical, and I've seen them using both so I figure they're happy.

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Well, to be fair that falls under 'if the animal is safe' :P

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Originally Posted by sunshinenorcas

I don't get using absolutes for newbies, or using absolutes to dumb down a concept 'for newbies'. Two secure hides=/=two identical hides. I used a coconut shell and a dragon hide and she used both of them, feed, shed and pooped while using both of them. As long as she's doing normal snake things, I'm not too concerned whether or not my hides matched. Different people keep different ways- if their animals are safe and happy, thats fine.

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Well if you keep up with when other new members come to ask question the other new members refer to the answer given. So by saying two identical hides it's hard to misword it. You remember when you're younger and they did the thing where everybody whispered something in the person next to thems ear and at the end how much of it was changed? It's like that. By saying something simple it's really hard to misconstrew it.

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Originally Posted by bcr229

The only absolute for newbies is don't use a danged UTH without a thermostat. As for the hides, my BP's all have two, not necessarily identical, and I've seen them using both so I figure they're happy.

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For instance this. I wouldn't really recommend a new keeper to use a dimmer switch over a thermostat, but I use a dimmer switch for my Rufous Beaked(not for my rack). I've been using them for years without issues on vivariums and terrariums and the likes. But if we tell a new keeper he can use a dimmer switch then he tells other new keepers the same thing it can create an issue, especially if people are judging by the touch if the UTH is hot enough or not. It's just easier to recommend simple things, it's nothing about dumbing it down. It's the fact they most likely lack experience.

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Originally Posted by sho220

Absolutely...let's keep the misinformation train chugging along...you MUST provide identical hides, you MUST not feed more often than once a week, you MUST not feed during sheds, you MUST keep them at 86.23572 degrees on the cold side and 91.42553 on the hot side, if you feed a snake the day you get it, it will EXPLODE, you may not, under any circumstances, handle your snake until a full 48 hours after it's last meal.

IMO you're doing newbs a disservice by passing along absolutes like that...why not just explain to them like you explained in your reply to me...
:confusd:

And in order to not start an "issue", this will be my last post on this thread...
:gj:

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Lol,I get your point 100% ..overkill overboard.

honestly I have 2 completely different hides and he messes around in both,but 80% of the time is on the warm side hiding in bushes or on top of the warm side hide. The cool side hide,he seems to like to play and slither in and out of all the holes in the skull..eating fine,shedding seems good..temp is good in the tank as for humidity .

I have a few different hide options in my tank. I have two small rock hides, and a piece of cork bark. The cork bark sits low so he tends to use that the most. The rock on his hot spot never gets touched. He also has a fake plant that offers him a 4th option. Mind you I have him in a 2x2 pvc cage so I had to fill the space up for him.