first week as a new owner, can use some input

Hey guys, I just got my new baby ball python this week. He is 2 months old, and his name is Stones. :)

I did a lot of research over a long period of time so that when I finally pulled the trigger, I felt really prepared. As such, the transition to ownership has not been a big disruption for me, so I'm glad for that.

Despite all the research, there's a lot of things that I studied up on that only *now* make sense as to why / why not doing some things.

So, I wanna bounce my thoughts and ideas off of you guys and get some feedback. Please go easy on me, remember this is my first!! :)

Here's a list of things I'd like to think I did right:

• Bought him at a reputable, local store. They had dozens (and I mean lots) of snakes there, as well as a ton of supplies. I happened to be there while they were feeding all their snakes, and it was really cool. I asked these guys a lot of questions, and they knew what they were talking about, so I felt really comfortable buying from there.
• I bought a 20 gallon glass tank with a locking lid (this one), so I'm not worried about him escaping
• I got both a bottom liner (this one) and some aspen snake bedding. I did that because I didn't like the idea of him burning himself on the glass if he went below the substrate, and it seemed to me like the feeling of glass may be weird for him.
• I got him four hides (I just realized I could post pics, so I'll do that later)
• I got him some foliage so that he can feel more hidden
• I got him a good water dish that's big enough for him to sit in, is simple easy to clean, and he's not gonna be able to tip over (it was actually the one that the guy at the same pet store recommended)
• I got a really good thermometer (this one) that I can stick the sensor in the substrate and monitor the temp and also it has a plug so it can turn the heater on / off
• I misted it a little bit, and the humidity seems good (about 60%)

Here's a list of things I think I did wrong:

• I don't think I cleaned the tank well enough before putting his stuff in there. I did rub down the tank and the bed liner, and washed off the hides and his water dish, but that was about it. I'm going to take him out next week and stick him in his feeding tub and give it a good washdown then.
• I didn't sand down the hides. Three of them have *some* slightly sharp edges, and while I don't think he'd really cut himself on them, I'm going to fix them for him. I took the three out of the cage for now, and he only has one right now, which is his tree trunk, which doesn't have any sharp edges at all. I'm also going to do a better job of sanitizing them as well, make sure they are really clean.
• I didn't do the heating right. I read a lot about heating, but some of it didn't make sense. I thought that a UTH alone would provide enough heat for the entire tank. Not the case. It was getting it up to about 76 or so, IIRC. So I went out and bought a heating lamp that sits on top of the tank, and I've got it set to stay at 90 on the warm side. So, I guess that the UTH is to keep the bottom warm and help the temp go up another few degrees, but that's about it.

Here's a list of things I'm not sure about:

• I don't know if I got the right size UTH for his tank. It's a Zoo Med medium for a 20 gallon tank.
• I don't know if the setup for his UTH is the best. It's attached to the side of the tank, not the bottom. Note that I could reattach it to the bottom just fine, but I haven't done it yet.
• The temperature between the hot and cold side is huge. 90 on one side compared to 80 on the other.
• I don't have a UTH on the cold side, to keep him a little warm. Because I'm not sure if I got the right size for the hot side, I'm not sure what size I should get for the other one.
• I have his UTH plugged in so it's on all the time, and I have the heat lamp plugged into the temperature regulator, so it flips on and off all the time, and keeps it always at a constant temperature (or within 2 degrees). I really like that, but I dunno if I've got it backwards -- if I should plug the UTH into the temperature gauge and always leave the heat lamp on.
• Should I get some kind of a cover that sits on top of the tank so that he doesn't feel so exposed?

Here's a list of things I'm going to do for him:

• Get some craft paper and make my own jungle backgrounds for him that completely cover three of the sides, so only the front is showing. It'll be fun to make a creative little scene for him, and I think having him feel more enclosed will make him happier
• Put more foliage in there. I've noticed that he *loves* to come poke around if he thinks that no one can see him. The foliage gives him that security, and you can kinda see him position his head behind some leaves to look around. It's hilarious. :)
• I bought some plastic clips with adhesive, and I'm going to put some more foliage with some think vines through the cage posted on the top and middle, so that, again, he feels covered a lot more, and it will give him something to climb around on. I've already noticed he doesn't stay on just the bottom, but will climb around on top of stuff, so I think he'll like that too.

Finally, I gotta say, it's way cool having a ball python, and I'm already enjoying it a lot. It is absolutely fascinating to watch him. And here's a pic of his cage, pre-python: http://imgur.com/jpaowPr (Note that that is not where the cage is located, it's just on the corner on the floor there because I was initially setting it up).

Anyway, I'd *love* to hear your guys feedback. My main priority is making this little guy feel secure, safe and happy, so I need some input. :)

1) Nice looking set-up! Just make sure that he won't be able to get stuck inside any of those decorations. It's not fun having to break open a nice looking ornament with a stuck snake on the inside.

2) Your "really good thermometer" is actually a thermostat - GOOD JOB! You'll want to have it plugged in to the UTH though instead of the heat lamp. Your snake will spend the majority of his life on the bottom of his enclosure and you don't want the UTH being uncontrolled and end up accidentally burning him. You should place the sensor for the thermostat between the UTH and the glass on the bottom of the aquarium.

3) On that note, you should move the UTH to the bottom instead of the side (occasionally done with arboreal species). Place it on one end or the other of the bottom to create a warm side and a cool side.

4) The temperatures you mentioned (90 on warm, 80 on cool) are exactly what you should be shooting for. Nice! As long as this stays consistent when you move the UTH to the bottom, you're good as gold.

5) If you wanted to get rid of the heat lamp, you could instead add a second UTH and thermostat to the other side on the bottom. Heat lamps can be a hindrance to proper humidity levels and your life in the future will likely be easier without one. If you decide to do this, regulate one UTH to 80 and the other to 90 (or 82 and 92 to account for the difference between the very bottom of the tank and the surface of the substrate the snake is actually sitting on).

6) Whatever you decide to do for decoration inside the tank, make sure that none of it is done with any kind of tape! Hot glue is much safer to use. A ball python stuck to a piece of tape or other similar adhesive is a horrific thing.

I'm sure others will chime in as well, but it sounds like you got lots of good advice from the associate at the pet store. Hooray!

Best of luck with your new addition! This community is awesome - you're going to love it here.

Eric

Thanks for the response, that's good to know. :)

I'm still a little confused about heating, though ...

If I got rid of the heating lamp, put the original UHT on the bottom, and added a second one for the other side, are those two combined going to be able to raise the temperature to the right levels (90 and 80 respectively)?

So far, it seems like my medium sized UHT only raised the temperature about 4 degrees. Is that because it's on the side?

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Originally Posted by beandog

Thanks for the response, that's good to know. :)

I'm still a little confused about heating, though ...

If I got rid of the heating lamp, put the original UHT on the bottom, and added a second one for the other side, are those two combined going to be able to raise the temperature to the right levels (90 and 80 respectively)?

So far, it seems like my medium sized UHT only raised the temperature about 4 degrees. Is that because it's on the side?

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Where are you measuring the temperature at? The temperature you should be concerned about is on top of the substrate right above the heater itself - where the snake spends its time. A temp gun is a good tool to do this: http://www.amazon.com/Pro-Exotics-In...=pe-2+temp+gun. Most UTHs have the ability to get up well above 100 degrees on their own - you shouldn't have any troubles at all getting up to 90 when measuring at the right location.

If you're going off of the temperature on the dial at the location you have it hanging (pictured on the top right), then what you're measuring is ambient temperature, which should be in the 80 degree range, give or take a couple degrees. A UTH isn't meant to raise the ambient temperature of entire aquarium - just warm the belly of your snake so it can digest properly. That's probably why you are thinking you're only seeing a couple degrees difference now. I bet if you put your hand on the glass right where the heater is it would feel warm, which means that it's above your body temperature of 98.6 degrees (which means that it's too warm for your snake and thus the reason it needs to be regulated). :)

Hey there!! Welcome and congrats on your new baby. Looks like you're off to a great start. I second the recommendation on those hides. I think the manufacturers of those types of hides are more concerned with looks rather than function. I have the same little tree one, I had to fill up all the little crevices with hot glue since critters get stuck up there.

Also, you might want to pick up a new thermometer/hygrometer. Walmart has a decent one, called Accurite for about $12. It's totally doable to just use UTH, but your thermometer needs to be at the bottom of the tank. This will give the most accurate reading, because that's where your little guy will spend most of his time.

Oh okay, that makes more sense now. So there's two temperatures to watch for: the ambient temperature of the air, and then the temperature at the base with the substrate.

To answer your question, the thermostat is on the left side of the tank (sorry, I need newer pictures) and is sitting right on top of the substrate. That's what is measuring at 90 degrees.

And yah, I put my hand on the UTH and it's definitely hot. I imagine things will make a lot more sense once I put the UTH actually under the tank.

I'm still confused though as to what parts need to be what temperatures though. Is it the ambient temperature that needs to be 90/80 on both sides or is it the temperature from the floor of the tank?

Well said, Eric. You got it while I was typing my bit up lol.

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Originally Posted by beandog

I'm still confused though as to what parts need to be what temperatures though. Is it the ambient temperature that needs to be 90/80 on both sides or is it the temperature from the floor of the tank?

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The ambient temperature of the entire enclosure is what should be ~80 degrees. You just need to provide a warm belly spot on one side of the floor (by use of the UTH) of ~90 degrees to give your BP a place to digest. Sorry I wasn't clear about this. :)

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Originally Posted by beandog

Oh okay, that makes more sense now. So there's two temperatures to watch for: the ambient temperature of the air, and then the temperature at the base with the substrate.

To answer your question, the thermostat is on the left side of the tank (sorry, I need newer pictures) and is sitting right on top of the substrate. That's what is measuring at 90 degrees.

And yah, I put my hand on the UTH and it's definitely hot. I imagine things will make a lot more sense once I put the UTH actually under the tank.

I'm still confused though as to what parts need to be what temperatures though. Is it the ambient temperature that needs to be 90/80 on both sides or is it the temperature from the floor of the tank?

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I'm a bit confused. Thermostats don't measure the temps, they regulate them. Also, how is your probe secured? If its just sitting on top of the substrate, your snake could easily move it, which would be the same result as having your UTH unregulated.

And I did say it earlier, but just to be clear: make sure when you move your UTH to the bottom, that the probe for your thermostat is stuck between the glass and the sticky side of the heater (on the outside of the aquarium). This ensures that it won't be moved by your snake (or get peed on) and gives you accurate measurements.

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Originally Posted by MootWorm

I'm a bit confused. Thermostats don't measure the temps, they regulate them. Also, how is your probe secured? If its just sitting on top of the substrate, your snake could easily move it, which would be the same result as having your UTH unregulated.

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We're walking before we're running. See my post right below yours. :)

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Originally Posted by Eric Alan

5) If you wanted to get rid of the heat lamp, you could instead add a second UTH and thermostat to the other side on the bottom. Heat lamps can be a hindrance to proper humidity levels and your life in the future will likely be easier without one. If you decide to do this, regulate one UTH to 80 and the other to 90 (or 82 and 92 to account for the difference between the very bottom of the tank and the surface of the substrate the snake is actually sitting on).

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This is where I'm also confused ... sorry ...

If I got rid of the heat lamp, and setup another UTH to a lower degree on the right side, then how do you get the ambient temperature up? I thought you said that they're not designed to heat the air like that (or am I not understanding that right either).

Sorry for the confusion, just wanna make sure I do this right *and* understand why it works how it does.

I'll wait til Eric posts something...

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Originally Posted by beandog

This is where I'm also confused ... sorry ...

If I got rid of the heat lamp, and setup another UTH to a lower degree on the right side, then how do you get the ambient temperature up? I thought you said that they're not designed to heat the air like that (or am I not understanding that right either).

Sorry for the confusion, just wanna make sure I do this right *and* understand why it works how it does.

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My logic here was that the snake will be spending 99% of its time on the floor of the aquarium so you want to make sure temperatures are correct there. Sorry I wan't clear with this.

When talking about temperature control and reptiles, you're mostly only concerned with where the reptile spends the majority of its time. For ball pythons, that means on the floor. If it's green tree pythons, then it's on one side of the aerial perch or the other. Make more sense?

Beandog, what are your average room temps? Unless its in the 60s, you shouldn't have any issues maintaining 80 degree ambient tank temps. If you so have issues, you can cover the majority of the tank with a towel, foil, anything to hold in heat. If its still too cool. You can get rid of the tank liner and put a shallow layer of bedding down, that should help immensely.

Alternatively, you could always keep the overhead lamp, but that will most likely result in humidity issues. This, too, can easily be fixed by switching to a better substrate that holds humidity (coco fiber/Eco earth, mulch) or providing humid hides filled with moss during shed(which is what I like to do).

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Originally Posted by Eric Alan

My logic here was that the snake will be spending 99% of its time on the floor of the aquarium so you want to make sure temperatures are correct there. Sorry I wan't clear with this.

When talking about temperature control and reptiles, you're mostly only concerned with where the reptile spends the majority of its time. For ball pythons, that means on the floor. If it's green tree pythons, then it's on one side of the aerial perch or the other. Make more sense?

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Yah, that does, thanks :D

So, here's the todo:

• Remove the UTH from the side, put it on the bottom
• Have the thermostat sensor sit between the UTH and the glass (so it doesn't get peed on)
• Have that one set to 90 degrees
• Duplicate the same setup on the right side of the tank, but set to 80 degrees (or 92/82 because of the substrate, liner and glass that could cause heat loss before it reaches his belly)
• Remove the heat lamp if the temperature is okay
• Relax

Anything I missed? :)

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Originally Posted by beandog

Yah, that does, thanks :D

So, here's the todo:

• Remove the UTH from the side, put it on the bottom
• Have the thermostat sensor sit between the UTH and the glass (so it doesn't get peed on)
• Have that one set to 90 degrees
• Duplicate the same setup on the right side of the tank, but set to 80 degrees (or 92/82 because of the substrate, liner and glass that could cause heat loss before it reaches his belly)
• Remove the heat lamp if the temperature is okay
• Relax

Anything I missed? :)

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Sounds like a plan. Also, you might have to play around with what your Tstat is set to. Mines set to 98, which gives me a 91 reading on the substrate.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

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Originally Posted by MootWorm

Beandog, what are your average room temps? Unless its in the 60s, you shouldn't have any issues maintaining 80 degree ambient tank temps.

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It varies, because I never keep my apartment temperature the same either ... sometimes I like the AC on, sometimes I like the windows all open, so it can be between about 72 to 85 degrees.

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Originally Posted by MootWorm

If you so have issues, you can cover the majority of the tank with a towel, foil, anything to hold in heat. If its still too cool. You can get rid of the tank liner and put a shallow layer of bedding down, that should help immensely.

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Okay, that's really good to know. I wanted to put *something* on top anyway just so he isn't exposed to the large open area, and instead he can feel even more contained. I don't feel comfortable putting something on there now, because of the heat lamp. But obviously if that's gone, I have a lot more options.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MootWorm

Alternatively, you could always keep the overhead lamp, but that will most likely result in humidity issues. This, too, can easily be fixed by switching to a better substrate that holds humidity (coco fiber/Eco earth, mulch) or providing humid hides filled with moss during shed(which is what I like to do).

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Okay, cool, I like both of those ideas for maintaining humidity. Thanks!

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Originally Posted by MootWorm

Sounds like a plan. Also, you might have to play around with what your Tstat is set to. Mines set to 98, which gives me a 91 reading on the substrate.

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Oh okay, that helps explain it, too.

Just how hot can those UTHs get?

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Originally Posted by beandog

Yah, that does, thanks :D

So, here's the todo:

• Remove the UTH from the side, put it on the bottom
• Have the thermostat sensor sit between the UTH and the glass (so it doesn't get peed on)
• Have that one set to 90 degrees
• Duplicate the same setup on the right side of the tank, but set to 80 degrees (or 92/82 because of the substrate, liner and glass that could cause heat loss before it reaches his belly)
• Remove the heat lamp if the temperature is okay
• Relax

Anything I missed? :)

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I'd suggest moving your last step to your first step, but other than that - PERFECT! :P

MootWorm already eluded to it, but you may be able to do without the second UTH or the overhead lamp depending on the temperature of the room that your tank is in. Once you have your primary UTH moved and the temperature steady on the warm side, measure the temp on both the floor on that side and the floor on the other side. If it's 76-80 on the cool side, then you don't have to spend the extra money on a second heating setup. :)

- - - Updated - - -

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Originally Posted by beandog

Oh okay, that helps explain it, too.

Just how hot can those UTHs get?

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Well over 100 degrees left unattended.

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Originally Posted by Eric Alan

I'd suggest moving your last step to your first step, but other than that - PERFECT! :P

MootWorm already eluded to it, but you may be able to do without the second UTH or the overhead lamp depending on the temperature of the room that your tank is in. Once you have your primary UTH moved and the temperature steady on the warm side, measure the temp on both the floor on that side and the floor on the other side. If it's 76-80 on the cool side, then you don't have to spend the extra money on a second heating setup. :)

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Okay. I don't mind spending the $$$ if it means I err on the side of certainty. And as you can see, I get uncertain about a few things, but then once I figure things out, I'm really comfortable with the setup.

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Originally Posted by Eric Alan

Well over 100 degrees left unattended.

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Wat.

That is good to know. I will definitely make sure it's working right.

Thanks so much guys! These forums rock. :D