Full Enclosures vs Racks

I am at a turning point and need some BP.net advice. All my snakes are pets. Period. As long as I have been keeping snakes, I have always given each one their own full enclosure as I felt this was much more beneficial to them to have the room to wander at night. Now my collection is growing (in size AND numbers) and am considering a rack system for my BPs. I have seen racks where people throw down some news paper, a water dish and call it good. This irks me a bit as IMO, it just doesn't seem like much of a "home" to me. I am not coming down on any one if this is your setup...this just has never been my preferred setup.

Again...I am asking your input as I will be running out of room here shortly as the number of T8s steadily have increased and am needing to order a couple more if I continue to go the PVC enclosure route. They are currently stacked 2 high...On the other hand if I order a tub rack and go vertical, I will have much more space but not as aesthetically pleasing.

It's a quandary...Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated...

I would definitely suggest going with a good rack system.
It makes life so much easier with the cleaning and it saves a ton of space!
Also, I feel my ball pythons were much happier in a tub than when I had them for a week in tanks.

Best of luck to you!

Thing I like about ball pythons is that that aren't a very good display snake, but you can always take them out and handle them if someone wants to see them/ you want to show off without really worrying about them being aggressive. I love my rack, and it saves tons of space. I use white paper towels as substrate and it looks fine to me. No need to fix up a tub unless you want to. But you could make a tub look great and I've done it before but with multiple snakes I like simplicity. But I do pay attention to my snakes and how they eat, act, etc. and I've noticed my simple setup of paper towels, water bowl, and 2 hides works great, it's very efficient, and my snakes seem happy.

I'm with Strong on this, racks can be made to look very wonderful (or at least not trashy). I think the first thing is to get a better substrate than newspaper and paper towels, I personally use cypress mulch due to the fact it retains plenty of moisture, looks nice, not to mention smells darn good.

But yeah, racks can look pretty good. I like mine.

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Originally Posted by RaskaNeil

I'm with Strong on this, racks can be made to look very wonderful (or at least not trashy). I think the first thing is to get a better substrate than newspaper and paper towels, I personally use cypress mulch due to the fact it retains plenty of moisture, looks nice, not to mention smells darn good.

But yeah, racks can look pretty good. I like mine.

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I use aspen for my dumerils but I like plain white paper towels for my BPs, why? No reason, I just like it :P

I only use aspen for my boa because she's a burrowing snake. Just gotta find what works for you.

If you find racks unappealing but like the concept, then how about custom making one to fit larger/taller tubs so you can decorate it like a display? That way they can be as practical as a rack and aesthetically to your liking.

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This may be a dumb question, but it's one that I haven't been able to get a good answer for...

How exactly does a rack work??

I know each snake has a bin it stays in, and they are all stacked on top of each other. I also know heat tape is used, but how can you control all those snakes with just one strip of heat tape?? I've seen some of the rack setups here, and it looks like they just have the heat tape centered along the rack, winding form one shelf to the next...how does this provide for a temperature gradient??

Willie - I've been having the same thoughts that you are having. I just got into ball pythons, but I can see where I could own enough of them to make a rack something to look into. I too, consider my ball python a pet first. I do plan on breeding down the road, but their well-being comes first. My wife is an animal lover as well, so we do our best to give the snake the most optimal conditions possible. Thus the question remains...does a ball python feel "better" in a well furnished enclosure with room to explore, or would the python feel better in the cozy surroundings of a tub? My python now is in an enclosure that I've modified to keep humidity in and really just have one viewing "window." All other sides are blocked out. So in this way it is approaching a tub like set up. At night I do like watching my python cruise around his enclosure. In a rack set up, I'd have to take him out of the tub to watch him. If I did get a rack I think I would do the cypress mulch or aspen for substrate, I'd have 2 hides, and a water bowl. I'd get the V70 size tubs so that the snakes have enough room to stretch out if they want to. But ultimately all I really want to know is, what do the ball pythons like best? If someone could convince me they really do feel better in tubs then that is what I'd want for them. If someone could tell me that they enjoy exploring their enclosure with fake plants and other decor, then I'd be all for that. So I guess what I am saying is, I am on the fence but certainly looking for the input of experienced keepers. I know many of the folks here have made the switch from enclosures to racks. I am learning and like Willie, want what is best for the snakes, not so much for me.

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This may be a dumb question, but it's one that I haven't been able to get a good answer for...

How exactly does a rack work??

I know each snake has a bin it stays in, and they are all stacked on top of each other. I also know heat tape is used, but how can you control all those snakes with just one strip of heat tape?? I've seen some of the rack setups here, and it looks like they just have the heat tape centered along the rack, winding form one shelf to the next...how does this provide for a temperature gradient??

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As long as each cube is the same a single heat tape will heat the back or underside of each tube the same - depending on if it is mounted under the tubs or on the back wall behind the tubs. Since the heat tape only heats 3-4 inches of the back end of the tub, the heat gradient is from the back to the front of the tub. Your ambient temperature will controll the temperature at the front of the tub. That's not to say the front of the tub will necessarily be ambient temp.

If the tub configuration (size, construction, construction material, etc.) is different, you need a seperate thermostate controller for each rack. As long as the racks are the same, you can use one controller.

Hope this helps some.

Andy - :snake:

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Originally Posted by Mephibosheth1

This may be a dumb question, but it's one that I haven't been able to get a good answer for...

How exactly does a rack work??

I know each snake has a bin it stays in, and they are all stacked on top of each other. I also know heat tape is used, but how can you control all those snakes with just one strip of heat tape?? I've seen some of the rack setups here, and it looks like they just have the heat tape centered along the rack, winding form one shelf to the next...how does this provide for a temperature gradient??

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There are two ways to do heat. Belly heat or back heat. Back heat is a single strip of heat tape along the entire back wall of the rack. It heats up the air rather than have once centralized hot spot. So it is hot in the back and gradually is cool to the front of the tub. Make sense? (Same as belly heat)

Belly heat is just having the tape along the shelves. Each shelf can have its own heat tape or can have one long piece weaving through the shelves. This just causes a hot spot. The cool side is whatever your room temp is. But is sometimes warmer depending on your hot side temp and how insulated your rack is.

Heat tape is usually in the back. Not center of the rack.

Racks do not do well if the room temp is too cold because the cold side is mainly around the ambient temp.

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does a ball python feel "better" in a well furnished enclosure with room to explore, or would the python feel better in the cozy surroundings of a tub?

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I used to ask myself the same question - until I got some problem eaters. When I removed them from their aquarium-type setup (Exactly as you described yours), and put them in plastic shoe boxes covered with towels, they started eating again and seemed to be much happier. I still take mine out and let them 'run' around and explore, but they REALLY seem happier when kept in small containers. Even the adults. Doesn't make sense to me, but I'm not a Ball Python. Happy in a hide, in a box under cover - go figure.

My 2 cents.
Andy - :snake:

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Originally Posted by mvptext1

If someone could convince me they really do feel better in tubs then that is what I'd want for them. If someone could tell me that they enjoy exploring their enclosure with fake plants and other decor, then I'd be all for that. So I guess what I am saying is, I am on the fence but certainly looking for the input of experienced keepers. I know many of the folks here have made the switch from enclosures to racks. I am learning and like Willie, want what is best for the snakes, not so much for me.

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Well. Ball pythons in the wild spend ~90% of their time holed up in a rodent burrow or termite mound. They rarely come out to explore other than to find food, breed, or locate to another hidey spot.

I can't imagine a burrow is very decorated.

I'm not saying to use a rack over naturalistic vivarium, but I don't think they mind the simplistic rack set up too much. Just do what you want and prefer. As long as your animals are healthy, eating, and thriving, its not a huge deal. If an enclosure is too stressful for them, they'll let you know.

Just my $.02.


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are there any ways to increase the ambient temperature for colder climates (besides using an actual space heater or upping your PG&E bill)??

My area gets kinda cold over the winter, and my folks try and save as much money as possible with the utilities. Sometimes it gets down to 50F in our house during the winter. I can remedy this problem in my tank by using a heat lamp, but what about in a rack??

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Originally Posted by Mephibosheth1

are there any ways to increase the ambient temperature for colder climates (besides using an actual space heater or upping your PG&E bill)??

My area gets kinda cold over the winter, and my folks try and save as much money as possible with the utilities. Sometimes it gets down to 50F in our house during the winter. I can remedy this problem in my tank by using a heat lamp, but what about in a rack??

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In a room that cold you will likely need to use heat tape on both the warm and cool sides of the tub. If you were using 41 qt tubs(34" long) then you could use 6" tape for the warm and 4" for the cool. The down side is that you would need either 2 separate thermostats or a dual controlling thermostat to monitor them. You could also include a wooden or plexiglass door on the front of the rack to trap heat. My rack was designed for regular room temps (68-75) so I used 12" wide tape under each of my tubs to ensure there was a large surface area giving off heat to provide my 90 degree hot side/80 degree cool side/ and 80 degree ambient air temp. Your needs will be determined by you environment and budget. I spent 175 on my rack and 150 on my thermostat. Sounds like a lot, but I can now house and breed up to 6 adult ball pythons. Now to work on the hatchling rack. . .

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Originally Posted by Mephibosheth1

are there any ways to increase the ambient temperature for colder climates (besides using an actual space heater or upping your PG&E bill)??

My area gets kinda cold over the winter, and my folks try and save as much money as possible with the utilities. Sometimes it gets down to 50F in our house during the winter. I can remedy this problem in my tank by using a heat lamp, but what about in a rack??

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What I did to control heat was move my rack into my closet and use a space heater and constantly keep 1 door of my closet shut. That way I only heat a smalle area instead of an entire room, cause I like it cold when I sleep.

I really like racks after using them for a few months. They're extremely energy efficient, and keep husbandry requirements to a T. I know some people keep their snakes in very small tubs in the racks where there is just the snake taking up half the floor space, and a water bowl taking up the rest. For me, it's dependent on the snake. My two babies (under 200g) seem fine with one hide, my 600g and 800g snakes do better with two hides. They all get aspen instead of paper towels; mostly because they all take advantage of the ability to move it around. They partially burrow, hole up the doors to their hide boxes, etc. It adds a naturalistic feel and makes for more three-dimensional movement instead of always sitting on a flat hard surface.

My biggest ball is 1900g and slender at 4.5 feet. He's not shy at all (and is the reason many of my friends get over their fear of snakes). He gets a big enclosure with branches that uses up almost 100 watts. He uses it, and stops feeding in smaller enclosures. He spends most of the day with half his body out of his hide, and spends every night hanging from very sturdy branches. I don't expect all my snakes to act like him, but it's just the way he is, so he gets the big enclosure.

Ok so this may be a dumb question, but is there any type of system that allows for the best of both worlds? The efficiency of a rack with the aesthetic appeal of a naturalistic terrarium. I'm picturing an oversized rack set up with maybe clear plastic on the front for viewing, if that makes sense. For those of us who enjoy watching snake tv at night :) If it doesn't exist yet, somebody need to get on this!

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Originally Posted by MootWorm

Ok so this may be a dumb question, but is there any type of system that allows for the best of both worlds? The efficiency of a rack with the aesthetic appeal of a naturalistic terrarium. I'm picturing an oversized rack set up with maybe clear plastic on the front for viewing, if that makes sense. For those of us who enjoy watching snake tv at night :) If it doesn't exist yet, somebody need to get on this!

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Some racks I've seen have clear fronts. I've seen some at BHB that have this but I've looked them up before and the tubs are superrrr expensive.

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Originally Posted by MootWorm

Ok so this may be a dumb question, but is there any type of system that allows for the best of both worlds? The efficiency of a rack with the aesthetic appeal of a naturalistic terrarium. I'm picturing an oversized rack set up with maybe clear plastic on the front for viewing, if that makes sense. For those of us who enjoy watching snake tv at night :) If it doesn't exist yet, somebody need to get on this!

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Stackable pvc enclosures come pretty close.

I need to modify my post to include economical lol. I don't know about the rest of you, but I'd be out a fortune for PVC enclosures. Maybe I'll have to break out the power tools :)

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Page 2 of that thread gives an good idea of how to have both worlds. The clear tubs allow you to decorate and utilize the rack style stacking. That was an arboreal rack but you could probably find smaller tubs to save more room for BP's. The biggest thing to consider is the needs of the animal more then the want for ascetics IMO. BP's do like smaller more enclosed enclosures. My pastel will go completely off feed if I put her in anything larger then a cb70 size enclosure. As long as the animals needs are met they are quite happy in a minimalist or well decorated elaborate enclosure.

You can stack as many T8s vertically as you want...I know The Serpent Merchant has some stacked...I spoke with Ali at Animal Plastics and specifically asked her how many can safely be stacked and her response is that as long as you are stacking the same models with eachother then there is no limit...I have 5 T8s stacked vertically at the moment myself.

do something like this:

http://monster-cages.com/images/deni...tile-cages.jpg

Not my pic, pulled from google.

Holy [expletive]! I wake up this morning and this thread is 3 pages long. I appreciate everyone's input...

I only asked the question because my dedicated snake room is running out of horizontal wall space. I currently have 2 stacks of T8s. I can definitely go higher and stack a few more, but with the recent addition [err...addiction] to my retic, I am finding I may be adding more retics...which means large enclosures in the foreseeable future. Which in turns means I may not have the room for multiple T8 stacks...I have some time, but like to have a plan before I dive in.

I guess we could always buy a bigger house....problem solved!

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Originally Posted by Willie76

Holy [expletive]! I wake up this morning and this thread is 3 pages long. I appreciate everyone's input...

I only asked the question because my dedicated snake room is running out of horizontal wall space. I currently have 2 stacks of T8s. I can definitely go higher and stack a few more, but with the recent addition [err...addiction] to my retic, I am finding I may be adding more retics...which means large enclosures in the foreseeable future. Which in turns means I may not have the room for multiple T8 stacks...I have some time, but like to have a plan before I dive in.

I guess we could always buy a bigger house....problem solved!

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Buy a bigger house... That cracked me up! It's probably the best option though lol