Live vs. frozen

I want opinions on this I have three ball pythons and two of them eat anything you give them but one of my pastels was being very picky I got her from Ben Siegel reptiles so she was on live rats. All my local pet stores had were frozen mice and I tried pinkies fuzzier and small mice and she wouldn't eat anything so I then tried a live rat fuzzy and she ate it in a hurry so I'm excited about that. There is a reptile expo near me on Sunday and I'm going to see if they have frozen mice and see if she will eat those so that I can get all my balls on f/t. I have read and it seems like rats are better for the snakes then mice but is it better live then frozen or vice versa. Any input is greatly appreciated.

Feeding frozen is safer. Mice chew on snakes more than rats, but just the other day someone posted a pic on Facebook of a Ball that was attacked by a rat and it was really bad. If you can get your snake to eat frozen it's safer for her and more convenient for you. It's easier to stock up, then just go to the freezer and get one out.

My BP I had in the past refused to touch f/t, but I was scared to put live in there with her. I compromised by getting live, killing it, and feeding it immediately after. She preferred when I tugged it a bit to simulate it being alive and fighting.

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Originally Posted by treeboa

Feeding frozen is safer. Mice chew on snakes more than rats, but just the other day someone posted a pic on Facebook of a Ball that was attacked by a rat and it was really bad. If you can get your snake to eat frozen it's safer for her and more convenient for you. It's easier to stock up, then just go to the freezer and get one out.

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Feeding live is just as safe as f/t if done right. And what's more convenient depends on the individual keeper. For a small timer like me, f/t is the easiest and more convenient route. If I had a large collection, I'd definitely do live feeding as having to thaw 50-100 rats or more would be a major pita.

There are pros and cons to both F/T and live. F/T could be equally dangerous.
But you should pick which ever method works best for you.

I feed live and haven't had any issues. Live is way way way more convenient for me. There is no way I would do F/T with my snakes. It would take hours to feed them all if I had to do the zombie dance to each one of them.

As long as you're being responsible and vigilant, live shouldn't be a problem.
Also, mouse pinks are too small for a ball.

Some responsible live feeding tips:

1) Feed the appropriate size food. I like smaller and more frequent meals than larger and less often. Weanlings and small rats are safe and harmless(to some extent). They're also not as conscious to danger as an adult would be. Adult rats can pack a nasty bite and are much stronger at fighting back, which is why "smaller and more frequent" is the way to go. I feed all of my adults weaned/small rats once a week. And multiple smalls for the big girls. A medium size would be the max appropriate size for a ball python.

2) Keep the feeder well fed and hydrated. They're less likely to see your snake as food. Hungry rats are dangerous rats. They will eat your snake if left unattended for extended periods of time. This is the reason for most snake killing/'attack' incidences.

3) Don't dangle the live feeder. This puts them in panic mode. A freaked out feeder is a dangerous feeder. Gently place the feeder into your enclosure. Calm feeders are good.

4) Monitor your feedings and keep a tool, such as tongs, on hand to assist your snake in case the feeder tries to bite down. I use a chop stick to stick in the feeder's mouth if its in a bad position.

5) Don't keep the feeder in with your snake longer than 30 mins max or so. Some people have a shorter time frame. If he doesn't eat within that time frame, take out the feeder and save it for next week.

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Originally Posted by treeboa

Feeding frozen is safer. Mice chew on snakes more than rats, but just the other day someone posted a pic on Facebook of a Ball that was attacked by a rat and it was really bad. If you can get your snake to eat frozen it's safer for her and more convenient for you. It's easier to stock up, then just go to the freezer and get one out.

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Safer?

How many accident have you experienced while feeding live? How severe was the damaged inflicted to your snake?

Any feeding if done responsibly can be done safely, I feed a few live prey each year (several thousands) and have done so for a few years and have never experiences in of the horror stories posted online, yes there are pictures out there however there is always have a back story to them that has nothing to do with responsible feeding.

We should promote safe feeding by teaching owners to be knowledgeable about their options not by scaring them.

On the side not improperly feeding a f/t rodent can be dangerous too ;)

Now back to the original question.

There is not better than the other it's about what works for your snakes and for you, gram per gram it's all the same, the difference is that it is easier to feed rats as only one is required whereas with mice multiple ones will be required for larger animals which also means it will get more costly.

So what are your options? Well you can either persist and switch that animal to mice (tough love required) if that is what you want to do and what is available to you or you can keep her on rats as well.

You should not have any problem finding f/t mice and rats at the show, just remember switching is tricky in most cases and trying to switch from life rats to f/t mice can be even trickier, usually it's a one step at the time thing, you go from one prey type to the other mice to rat and once the animal is consistent you go from live to f/T.

Thank you all for your input I'm going to see if she will eat a frozen rat and see if that makes a difference just for the simple reason that it is easier to stock as right now I don't have the room for and cage for the rats. I just didn't know if there was any nutrition loss from being frozen vs. live. If she will not feed on frozen I will switch to live. You all have been such a great help.

I'm not aware of a nutrition loss in frozen versus live feeders. If your little girl is already eating rats then don't try to switch her to mice, it's much more economical when she grows up to feed rats whether they're f/t or live.

What are the dangers of feeding f/t? Not trying to argue at all - I just had no idea that feeding f/t could be dangerous at all. :O

There is very little loss of nutrition. Not enough to make any significant difference.

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Originally Posted by Konotashi

What are the dangers of feeding f/t? Not trying to argue at all - I just had no idea that feeding f/t could be dangerous at all. :O

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The danger comes when you don't heat it all the way and it's fed to your snake partially frozen.

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Originally Posted by Konotashi

What are the dangers of feeding f/t? Not trying to argue at all - I just had no idea that feeding f/t could be dangerous at all. :O

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A partially frozen rodent will start rotting in the animal stomach and it can lead to regurgitation but in some cases death as well.

Again regardless of what one feed's it's all about being knowledgeable and responsible.

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What are the dangers of feeding f/t? Not trying to argue at all - I just had no idea that feeding f/t could be dangerous at all.

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You can also over-heat the frozen food and burn your snake. That's been done before too.

Andy - :snake:

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Originally Posted by treeboa

Feeding frozen is safer.

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This is news to me, how did this come about?

Snakes getting chewed up by their food is not either of their fault that the handler is lazy and not doing his/her job.

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Originally Posted by Konotashi

What are the dangers of feeding f/t? Not trying to argue at all - I just had no idea that feeding f/t could be dangerous at all. :O

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Also in addition from what others said, a feeder who's core is still frozen(inappropriately heated) can shock a snakes system since they are coldblooded and could potentially cause death.

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Thank you for everyone for all the input.

Just like mite control this is always a very polarizing topic. The people that feed live will staunchly defend their position and they are right for the most part. The position that responsible feeding of live never leads to accidents is a fallacy too, though. I feed live to my snakes that refuse f/t too and I've been doing this for over 20 years. The caveat of watching to make sure the snake hits the rodent, in my experience only works part of the time. Most of my live feeders over the years would not hit the rodent with me watching, leading me to have to shut the cage/drawer and come back later. Not much of a problem with mice since they tend to chew on snakes out of hunger or boredom which only happens if they are left a long time. Rats attack defensively though, and this can happen in a minute. Also, talking about time, you can't tell me people with larger collections stand there and make sure each snake takes the rodent before moving on while feeding. Yes most accidents with live are because of laziness or ignorance and the same is true of feeding a f/t that's not completely thawed. The fact is though, the dangers of responsibly feeding f/t=0%, the dangers of responsibly feeding live, ? but more than 0%. There no question that feeding f/t is impossible with a larger collection. My collection over the last 15 years has fluctuated between 40 and 100 snakes depending on how many hatchlings I have and for me it's less trouble to feed f/t. I'd rather take the time to do the "zombie dance" for the snakes that need it (not all do) than take the time to maintain a rodent colony and put up with the smell. But to each his own. As far as what is better, the safety and convenience issues are for you to decide, as far as nutrition and the health of your snakes, it makes no difference.

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Originally Posted by treeboa

Just like mite control this is always a very polarizing topic. The people that feed live will staunchly defend their position and they are right for the most part.

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It's not about defending what one does or does not, everyone can feed what they wish, it´s about educating people about their choices and promoting RESPONSIBLE feeding (regardless of the feeding) versus instigating fear of the big boogy is man.

There isn't a right or wrong answer. Weigh the pros and cons and decide what works best for you and your snakes. Problem solved!

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It's not about defending what one does or does not, everyone can feed what they wish, it´s about educating people about their choices and promoting RESPONSIBLE feeding (regardless of the feeding) versus instigating fear of the big boogy is man.

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^^I agree with this.

I'm pretty sure a lot of us who have answered to this thread support both frozen/thawed and live feeding as long as it's done responsibly. When keepers are not responsible about their feeding methods, then you run into problems like chewed up snakes or killing your snake because you fed it half frozen food. I know a lot of people also don't feed exclusively one thing. Some do, but not all. For me, all my ball pythons eat live because it's what I have available and what I have the space for. My cornsnakes, however, all eat frozen/thawed. Both are fine feeding methods as long as both are done correctly.

As a community, it isn't our job to spread our opinions on what feeding method is best my means of fear. however, it is our job to make sure that new keepers know the pros and cons of both methods of feeding so they can make an informed decision. Trying to scare them is not giving them all the information they need. For example, your method of education (trying to scare them out of feeding live) can be equated to something like this: A person gets into a car accident because they were drinking. Now, you're trying to tell people not to drive cars because it isn't safe and you can get into accidents. Well, yes. You can get into accidents if you aren't being responsible. However, if you are a responsible driver, your odds of getting into a car accident significantly decrease. Do you see what I'm saying?

All I said was that it was safer to feed frozen and explained why. It was then assumed that I meant never feed live, f/t is 100% failsafe, and was criticizing anyone who feeds live. If I'm not mistaken others who took offense are the ones who claimed accidents with live prey ONLY happen when people are irresponsible and used scare tactics about f/t talking about snakes puking and dying from eating popsicles. Mentioning that snakes have been maimed and killed by rodents is part of educating a newbie and it would be irresponsible NOT to mention it, although in the future I should remember to mention thoroughly thawing f/t too because that is a very valid point. Telling them that responsibly feeding live is perfectly safe without telling them exactly what can happen is not giving them all the information either. I've never intentionally left a rodent capable of inflicting injury for a prolonged time with any snake, but I'm not perfect. I once left a "fuzzy"" in a bag with a non-feeding Boa for a couple hours. Fuzzies are harmless right? Well the pet store didn't say how old the mouse was and it turned out to be a runt hopper and chewed the Boa from head to tail. I had to euthanize it. Last year I was feeding a rack full of 37 hatchling Jungle Carpets and Balls. The Balls were all eating live small adult mice. When I went to check on them to see if they ate, I overlooked one Ball's shoebox. That one didn't happen to eat and when I discovered it the snake was pretty much eaten and both snake and mouse were dead. First one my fault? Maybe/maybe not. Second one my fault? Definitely! but not laziness or ignorance, an oversight/mistake. My experience and an example, not a scare tactic. As for giving opinions, that is what the OP asked for. That what I did. That's what others did. I have no problem with anyone deciding to feed live. Like I said, there are many good reasons for doing it. When dealing with snakes that can be tricky feeders like Balls, it's inevitable that, unless you only have one or two, you are going to have some that insist on live. Some staunch f/t feeders can't deal with that and will even half-starve their snakes before feeding live. I'm not one of those. The rodents a feeder. It's going to meet it's end one way or another. to me being constricted is no more or less cruel than being gassed in a bucket. If my snakes insist on live, they get it. Everyone does have to decide for themselves. My advice to the OP was coming from my opinion that it's easier and more convenient with three snakes to feed f/t instead buying expensive live rodents from a pet shop or going through the hassle of raising your own and yes, I'm sorry I feel it's safer. That's just my opinion and everyone else is welcome to theirs. This is a public forum after all. My only problem with anyone on this thread was them putting words in my mouth and assigning motives that weren't there.

It's not safer to feed f/t, that is false. If thats your opinion, then you must label it as such. I personally disagree. Both examples you mentioned were your fault. A user error doesn't mean its safer to feed f/t.

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Originally Posted by treeboa

All I said was that it was safer to feed frozen and explained why. It was then assumed that I meant never feed live, f/t is 100% failsafe, and was criticizing anyone who feeds live. If I'm not mistaken others who took offense are the ones who claimed accidents with live prey ONLY happen when people are irresponsible and used scare tactics about f/t talking about snakes puking and dying from eating popsicles. Mentioning that snakes have been maimed and killed by rodents is part of educating a newbie and it would be irresponsible NOT to mention it, although in the future I should remember to mention thoroughly thawing f/t too because that is a very valid point. Telling them that responsibly feeding live is perfectly safe without telling them exactly what can happen is not giving them all the information either. .

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Okay so if feeding f/t is 100% failsafe as you say, then why would you have to explain to someone how to properly thaw the rat or mouse?;)

We each have our own way of doing things and what works in my house might not work in yours.
The bottom line on feeding depends on the person and what they want to do.

Frozen: thawed and heated to a useable internal temp, drop and go, then trash is not eaten (some people re-freeze to reuse BUT I wouldn't)

Live: pick appropriate size rodent for snake, drop in and move on to next tub, check on tubs with live in them and return uneaten rodents back to rat/mouse racks.


*****I will say it again: A bite or two can and is nature at work. If a mouse/rat tried to eat your snake then you are bottom line a special kind and haven't listened to anyone here in this site ever!!! It doesn't matter on the size of the feeder, I feed everything from pinky to medium and have never had a problem. It is not natural for a feeder to try to eat its host unless it is left in the tub way too long with no food or water.*****

The are my thoughts, my truths, and my laws....................... take them as you will:cool:

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

It's not safer to feed f/t, that is false. If thats your opinion, then you must label it as such. I personally disagree. Both examples you mentioned were your fault. A user error doesn't mean its safer to feed f/t.

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Everything on a public forum is an opinion, that's the nature of a forum. Because no one's perfect, accidents happen. If the rodent's dead, there's zero chance for error if you do things right. If the rodents live things can happen even if the snake constricts it as the post below yours mentions. User error and the fact that the snake can still be hurt DOES mean it's safer to feed f/t. And no I didn't expressly say in my first post it was my opinion, but then in your post you made two statements as fact and didn't expressly say it either.

Ok if you don't think it was your fault then i guess that is your opinion. From what you said, all evidence would indicate it was your fault though lol.

Ask rabernet about her feedings. Shes said before that out of 20K plus live feedings, she can count on one hand the number of times something serious has happened. Imo, the risk of messing up feeding f/t is about the same percentage. Therefore, neither one is safer than the other. Im not stating that as an opinion, its a fact that both have a certain amount of risk involved that makes them equally risky. If you wanna say one is better than the other, thats fine though, idrc.

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

Okay so if feeding f/t is 100% failsafe as you say, then why would you have to explain to someone how to properly thaw the rat or mouse?;)

We each have our own way of doing things and what works in my house might not work in yours.
The bottom line on feeding depends on the person and what they want to do.

Frozen: thawed and heated to a useable internal temp, drop and go, then trash is not eaten (some people re-freeze to reuse BUT I wouldn't)

Live: pick appropriate size rodent for snake, drop in and move on to next tub, check on tubs with live in them and return uneaten rodents back to rat/mouse racks.


*****I will say it again: A bite or two can and is nature at work. If a mouse/rat tried to eat your snake then you are bottom line a special kind and haven't listened to anyone here in this site ever!!! It doesn't matter on the size of the feeder, I feed everything from pinky to medium and have never had a problem. It is not natural for a feeder to try to eat its host unless it is left in the tub way too long with no food or water.*****

The are my thoughts, my truths, and my laws....................... take them as you will:cool:

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Again, words in my mouth. I did Not say f/t was failsafe. The opposite as a matter of fact. I, also, never said never feed live, in fact I said I do both. My point of sharing my experiences was to show that anyone can screw up. Congratulations if you're perfect, you're unique. You say you've never had a problem, but then say a bite or two is fine as long as the snake doesn't get eaten. I don't agree. I think it is a problem and is the very reason for my opinion. I will never have to treat a bite from a f/t rodent. And as far as putting a fuzzy in a bag to get a non-feeder to eat, that's in all the BP books written by people with a hell of a lot more experience than me, you, or most on this forum. It was a unique situation and, to me, proves that accidents can happen even if you do everything right. And by the way if the OP was a complete newbie and needed to hear the way to safely feed live, you are the first to type it. It took 20-some post and what..2 days and was only done somewhat sarcastically to prove a point. Nice!

Interesting discussion. I had to take one of my snakes to the vet this week (SEAVS in Fairfax, VA) and got grilled on my husbandry practices. They very strongly recommend f/t over live, as they see quite a few snakes badly hurt by live feeders (probably by folks who don't read this site!). They haven't seen a snake that had to be treated because it ate a f/t feeder that was still cold in the middle. Of course, that may also mean the snake didn't survive - hence no vet visit - but take it for what you will.
I have no problem feeding live, but prefer f/t as life gets hectic with running two home-based businesses. I do worry at some point I will get distracted by a phone call, unexpected customer, child, etc. with a live feeder in a tub. If I could be assured of having several hours where I wasn't interrupted it would be different.

I've been doing this for 22 years. At the beginning I fed only live for several reasons. As I've said repeatedly I DO feed live. I, too, have only had a handful of incidents with live. On the other hand I've had 0 incidents with f/t. I've been part of three herp societies and been on various forums since they've existed (Since what 97-98?) I've never even heard second hand of anyone screwing up f/t. I know it happens, that's why it's written about in books and magazines. You have no basis for your view on f/t accidents happening as much as live feeding, it is not a fact.

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Originally Posted by treeboa

I've been doing this for 22 years. At the beginning I fed only live for several reasons. As I've said repeatedly I DO feed live. I, too, have only had a handful of incidents with live. On the other hand I've had 0 incidents with f/t. I've been part of three herp societies and been on various forums since they've existed (Since what 97-98?) I've never even heard second hand of anyone screwing up f/t. I know it happens, that's why it's written about in books and magazines. You have no basis for your view on f/t accidents happening as much as live feeding, it is not a fact.

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I didn't say that they happen the same amount, I said they're equally risky.

And you wouldn't know if you killed your snake with f/t, thats why you don't see stories of it really. (i've never seen one either). How many owners/breeders get autopsies done on dead snakes to determine what killed them though? You wouldn't know what killed it, unless you had an autopsy done to determine the cod was an improperly thawed rodent. Not a ton of breeders would be that willing to do that, they'd probably just write it off as something else.

Pros and Cons to both methods. Both can be equally dangerous or just as safe. There is no one right way. Do what works for you. Period.


But if anyone really wanted to, just search for the threads. I know I've seen a few where snakes have died from improper F/T here on this forum. I specifically recall seeing a thread where the OP fed a frozen(or semi thawed feeder at best) to their Boa because they idiotically didn't know they were suppose to heat it up. The snake died. Temperature shock to the system I believe....

And I know for a fact that the many live feeder related deaths and half eaten snakes on this particular forum are from human error and leaving the feeder unattended for extended periods of time without food. The keepers admitted it as such. The feeder was left long enough to get hungry and go for the only other thing in the enclosure.

Some people are uneducated and don't know proper feeding techniques for both live and f/t. That's where you get the most feeding errors and injured/dead snakes.

Be knowledgeable and vigilant.

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Originally Posted by treeboa

You say you've never had a problem, but then say a bite or two is fine as long as the snake doesn't get eaten. I don't agree. I think it is a problem and is the very reason for my opinion. I will never have to treat a bite from a f/t rodent.

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There is a difference between a bite and a puncture;) Yes I have had some of my rats bite me and not break skin. That being said, A snakes skin is its armor against things they come upon in the world. I also know and realize that our animals live an overly pampered life. In the wild they do not get served a dad rodent on a platter, have temps between 88 to 95 degrees and humidity of 70% all the time. I also so DO NOT strive to do what a book or someone else tells me to do.:cool: What works in my house might not work in yours. I will take in the information and my experiment with it a little but my room is set up to my reptiles and I wont change anything because I am not having any problems.
I guess it is best if we agree to disagree:gj:

Didn't ask you to change a thing. The snake in a bag thing from stuff I read by people like Philllipe de Vosjoli and Dave Barker and it was 17 years ago before this all knowing forum (or any other) These guys pioneered most of today's husbandry techniques and have been doing this since the 60's. But you listen to your "experts" on the forum most of whom have probably about 10 years experience or less. You know since Balls became cool and big business. I'm sure you've picked the better way. In my 22 years off keeping Balls and other snakes I've had several rodents break the skin during constriction. I had 2 friends with large pythons (a full grown Retic and an 18 ft Burmese) who had to have dozens of stitches in similar injuries from live rabbits tearing their sides with their back claws during constriction. But this is natural, right, all part of the process. I took in my animals, it's up to me to protect and care for them. If I can prevent them pain and injury, I will. Again, not telling you, or anyone else to change a thing. In turn I will not change my mind that f/t is safer and will not quit recommending it. Yes we will have to agree to disagree.

If you're feeding a live rabbit to anything, it's kind of your own fault your snake got injured IMO...

They're not just going to sit still and be constructed. They're obviously going to bite and fight.

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Originally Posted by Bobbafett

If you're feeding a live rabbit to anything, it's kind of your own fault your snake got injured IMO...

They're not just going to sit still and be constructed. They're obviously going to bite and fight.

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I agree and that's exactly what I meant! This was 93 and 95 and there were only a couple f/t suppliers around and if I remember right they did not sell rabbits. Still, these two had been told that they should pre-kill the rabbits but scoffed at the thought that a rabbit could hurt a 15ft retic or a 18ft burm. They, also, got a kick out of watching their snakes take down and eat live prey.

I have a Ball that only likes live. I have been trying to get I'm to switch to F/T because I believe it is safer and easier on the caregiver.;) Recently he has been accepting fresh pre-killed but still not F/T. If you feed live you have to watch carefully.

I feed my snakes live because in my opinion f/t is just a waste of money because once u thaw the rodent out that’s it so if you reptile does not eat the rodent you have to throw it away then when u try the next time it’s the same thing you have to go to the store and buy another one and thaw it out which is a waste of money. With live if the snake does not eat the rodent all u you have to do is take it out and put it in another cage and you can try again another day without the hassle of driving to the pet store again and buying another rat and thawing it out. So with live there is no money wasted because you still have a rodent if your snake doesn’t eat the first time offered. Now i breed my own rodents and so it is a little easier for me to just keep the rodent if the snake doesn’t eat it but if u don’t breed them and u buy your rodents a 10 gal fish tank with a lid is all u need to keep them in until it’s time to feed again and u can get them for around $10 at a yard sale or less as long as u keep a close eye on your reptiles when u r feeding you will never have a problem I have over 30 snakes I feed live to and none of them have ever been bit by a rat. So no it’s not true that feeding live means your snake is going to get bit or attacked because you feed it live can it happen yes if you are not a responsible snake owner and just throw a rat in there and walk away and then come back a week later to check on the snake that is the wrong answer so anyone that feeding your snakes live is wrong then they are wrong because in the wild they do not eat f/t rats the eat live prey.

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Originally Posted by treeboa

I agree and that's exactly what I meant! This was 93 and 95 and there were only a couple f/t suppliers around and if I remember right they did not sell rabbits. Still, these two had been told that they should pre-kill the rabbits but scoffed at the thought that a rabbit could hurt a 15ft retic or a 18ft burm. They, also, got a kick out of watching their snakes take down and eat live prey.

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Apply the same responsible feeding techniques as the rodents. Smaller meals more often than larger and less frequent. A snake can handle smaller prey much more easier than a larger one that can fight back. A smaller prey animal won't do as much damage(or any ) as a larger one. Live Adults should be avoided because they are more conscious to danger than juvies and babies.

In the case or Burm and retics, I'd PK or use a FT adult rabbit. Rabbits are known to kill predators and break bones with a well placed back kick. Babies? Not so much. I'll feed a live juvi or kit any time.

For my BPs, I'll continue with live. Just my pref.



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Originally Posted by hondaprelude

I have read and it seems like rats are better for the snakes then mice but is it better live then frozen or vice versa. Any input is greatly appreciated.

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I suppose if it wasn't so much fun to argue on the internet, we could just end this thread with: feed them whatever they're happiest with. "Them" being the snakes...

I can't wait until I've been doing this for 22 years so i can know anything and everything.

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

I can't wait until I've been doing this for 22 years so i can know anything and everything.

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Hmm, my post disappeared. I shared my experience and admitted a couple huge mistakes and criticized some one else for feeling like they couldn't learn from others. Yep I think I know everything. I have a much bigger problem with people thinking they know everything because they've been a forum for a couple years.

I'm not claiming to know everything, but just bc I've only been on the forum for a year doesn't mean i wasn't keeping snakes before that lol. Sharing your experiences and then trying to use that as an example to be cautious with feeding live is a moot point imo, because in both cases it was a human error. Thats all I'm saying. I'm sure you're not meaning to come off the way i'm reading it, but thats just how it sounds to me.

Now that this tread is turning into a waste, before I forget my green tights :bolt: :bolt: :bolt:

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

I'm not claiming to know everything, but just bc I've only been on the forum for a year doesn't mean i wasn't keeping snakes before that lol. Sharing your experiences and then trying to use that as an example to be cautious with feeding live is a moot point imo, because in both cases it was a human error. Thats all I'm saying. I'm sure you're not meaning to come off the way i'm reading it, but thats just how it sounds to me.

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No it's not how I was trying to come off. I wasn't actually talking about you, you didn't come off as a know-it-all. The human error is exactly my point. If you feed live, you MIGHT screw up, even if you know what you're doing. Is it inevitable? No! But it can happen and many people came off as saying the only way it can happen is if you're stupid and it'll never happen to them.