How to clean your Ball Python tank 101 quick video by me :)

Figured this might be helpful to some of you guys :)
Let me know what you think :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZ1WFOOXkzc

whats happening 3 mins 45 seconds into your video?

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Originally Posted by martin82531

whats happening 3 mins 45 seconds into your video?

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I needed more footage because i wasn't done talking and i had that old footage of me picking up a cottonmouth. Yes i know its dangerous but what can i say, i was raised up in the woods of texas lol. I really didnt have any footage relevant so i chose that because its a snake. I know it really didnt go with the video lol.

You do realize that you failed to follow the instructions for wipe out (and all disinfectant I am aware of?) You must CLEAN before disinfecting, bleach included. Wash with soap and water first then bleach rinse ect. Just bleach and wipe out are not enough clean first.

Mis using disinfectants are the same as mis using antibiotics. They generate super resistant, bacteria, virus ect. and render disinfectant useless. It is the same as not feeling well and popping a few antibiotic pill just because. It is a bad idea.

From the wipe out label.
Directions For Use
It is a violation of Federal law to use this product in a manner inconsistent with its labelling.
An antibacterial cleaner, disinfectant, and deodorizer for terrariums and small animal cages.
Can reduce the spread of bacterial infections in your animals.
Remove all animals, objects (hot rocks, caves, cage furniture, feeding and watering dishes/appliances) and substrate from your terrarium or cage (clean with Wipe Out 2).
Saturate the surfaces of the terrarium/cage by spraying on Wipe Out 1 and let it stand for five minutes. Then wipe all surfaces dry.
Do not return animals to the habitat until is it dry and ventilated.
Clean terrarium at least once weekly or more as needed.

Chlorhexidine instructions
http://datasheets.scbt.com/sc-359873_mfr.pdf
F10
http://www.f10biocare.co.uk/vetguidelines2.pdf
General products
http://www.education.nh.gov/instruct...infectants.pdf

Most have the same thing in common surfaces must be pre cleaned.

Horrible video... Sorry, I really really wish I could have that 3 minutes back. Plus there is no need to use bleach at all when cleaning. Look into f10

Really? I was following instruction from a local pet store owner.. Guess I should have looked more into it before I made the video.

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Originally Posted by Mrl249

Horrible video... Sorry, I really really wish I could have that 3 minutes back. Plus there is no need to use bleach at all when cleaning. Look into f10

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Wow sorry to have ruined your day there. Just following the instructions of a local pet store owner. I didn't think bleach would hurt at all.

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Originally Posted by Mrl249

Horrible video... Sorry, I really really wish I could have that 3 minutes back. Plus there is no need to use bleach at all when cleaning. Look into f10

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Bleach is fine to use.

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

You do realize that you failed to follow the instructions for wipe out (and all disinfectant I am aware of?) You must CLEAN before disinfecting, bleach included. Wash with soap and water first then bleach rinse ect. Just bleach and wipe out are not enough clean first.

Mis using disinfectants are the same as mis using antibiotics. They generate super resistant, bacteria, virus ect. and render disinfectant useless. It is the same as not feeling well and popping a few antibiotic pill just because. It is a bad idea.

From the wipe out label.
Directions For Use
It is a violation of Federal law to use this product in a manner inconsistent with its labelling.
An antibacterial cleaner, disinfectant, and deodorizer for terrariums and small animal cages.
Can reduce the spread of bacterial infections in your animals.
Remove all animals, objects (hot rocks, caves, cage furniture, feeding and watering dishes/appliances) and substrate from your terrarium or cage (clean with Wipe Out 2).
Saturate the surfaces of the terrarium/cage by spraying on Wipe Out 1 and let it stand for five minutes. Then wipe all surfaces dry.
Do not return animals to the habitat until is it dry and ventilated.
Clean terrarium at least once weekly or more as needed.

Chlorhexidine instructions
http://datasheets.scbt.com/sc-359873_mfr.pdf
F10
http://www.f10biocare.co.uk/vetguidelines2.pdf
General products
http://www.education.nh.gov/instruct...infectants.pdf

Most have the same thing in common surfaces must be pre cleaned.

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To recap all this, Clean with soap and water before bleach? Being in RN school and having an understanding of antibiotics and different disinfectants I am gonna have to agree to disagree since you compare the two. This is because antibiotics work in a very different way to bleach. Bleach will kill pretty much everything and is so utterly destructive nothing lives, but antibiotics work in a much more subtle way. Most antibiotics work by targeting specific proteins, such as ones in the cell wall, or those that help make other proteins. There is a big difference between Antibiotics and Disinfectants & Antiseptics. I also state to leave the bleach for a certain amount of minutes to kill everything. I appreciate the input and will look more into the other cleaner. Like I said with the wipe-out I explained when I use it. I could have went into more detail though.

So you are saying the EPA does not understand how to use bleach solutions?

From the EPA document. So you are saying this is incorrect?
(5.25% is straight grocery store type it is not strong enough to dude get and clean at the same time lets not talk about stronger concentrate use than is commonly avaliable ok?)
Bleach- Sodium Hypochlorite 5.25% (bleach concentrate)

Surfaces must be pre-cleaned.1 Best practices advise pre- cleaning all surfaces before disinfecting.


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I liken the effect of mid use not the working methodology. Incorrect use of disinfectant create resistant bacteria ect much the same as incorrect use of antibiotics does.

Disinfectants are biocides and demand respect and correct use.

If you have data about disinfecting a heavily soiled surface with bleach I'd love to see it.


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I clean with fire, pure fire just few passes BAM! It's good as new all germs are dead dont worry bout it

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Originally Posted by carlson

I clean with fire, pure fire just few passes BAM! It's good as new all germs are dead dont worry bout it

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:8::rofl:

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

I liken the effect of mid use not the working methodology. Incorrect use of disinfectant create resistant bacteria ect much the same as incorrect use of antibiotics does.

Disinfectants are biocides and demand respect and correct use.

If you have data about disinfecting a heavily soiled surface with bleach I'd love to see it.


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While I agree with resistant bacteria being a problem I don't think that's much of an issue in this case. The constant use of things like hand sanitizer is a major problem but I doubt this is much of one.

If you actually think about it there are very few "super bugs" out there and we have been globally abusing disinfectants and biocides since we discovered them. It's taken years and exposure of many times more bacteria than any of us can fathom to create these bugs. So the odds that this one person improperly cleaning a small colony of bacteria in their tank is going to inadvertently breed a super bug is astronomical.

Just because you read a scary EPA or CDC study doesn't mean you need to try to scare people cleaning their BPs tank. Why not put up signs near hand sanitizer dispensers, hand out pamphlets outside your doctor's office or visit farms in the area and ask them to stop dumping antibiotics into the cattle's water supply? You know something really useful.

Should OP be properly cleaning his tank? Yes. Is he going to breed a super bug by not doing it correctly? It's inconceivably unlikely.

Oh and since you're asking for data about bleach, I assume you will have no problem producing something showing that such a small colony of bacteria poses a threat when not properly exposed to bleach. I'll wait.

I'll say this and I will leave it alone because I am trying to help, not argue what "cleaner will properly clean" I made this video for the sole purpose of being a cheap inexpensive way to clean your tank. People will market anything they can make a dollar on. I'm sure other cleaners are fine to use and I would use them myself and nothing against them at all but bleach will take care of the problem 99% of the time. It is considered one of the powerful disinfectants. We can argue all day about bacteria building up resistance to bleach. Once again, THIS IS HIGHLY UNLIKELY. Why do bacteria build up resistance? Because antibiotics are made to attack the proteins and different parts of a cell, the bacteria forms memory from certain parts of the memory cell to block the certain isotopes the antibiotic is trying to bind to the cell wall of the bacteria with. Bleach isn't a antibiotic and DOES NOT function like one except for a few exceptions. It is a powerful disinfectant that kills germs differently than how antiseptics and antibiotics do. Can bacteria build up resistance to bleach? Yes I'm sure there is a few. A strain of black mold is one. But I do not have super bacteria in my tank.

Now I will say this. Did I clean my tank wrong? No, I don't think i did. Do you guys clean your tank wrong? No, I don't think you do. It is a matter of opinion. This method I use is absolutely fine, It gets the job done. It is obtuse and pointless to argue how bad of a job I did cleaning because I used bleach and not some super cleaner that is made for tanks. If bleach didn't work on most things they wouldn't sell a million gallons of it. My snake is healthy, My tank is clean, and I have had no problems. I mean all that with the most utmost respect for you guys that disagree with my method, to each is own. We all share a hobby, we love our balls, and it is nice we have a place to come and enjoy each others company at :) No hard feelings. :)

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Originally Posted by mackynz

While I agree with resistant bacteria being a problem I don't think that's much of an issue in this case. The constant use of things like hand sanitizer is a major problem but I doubt this is much of one.

If you actually think about it there are very few "super bugs" out there and we have been globally abusing disinfectants and biocides since we discovered them. It's taken years and exposure of many times more bacteria than any of us can fathom to create these bugs. So the odds that this one person improperly cleaning a small colony of bacteria in their tank is going to inadvertently breed a super bug is astronomical.

Just because you read a scary EPA or CDC study doesn't mean you need to try to scare people cleaning their BPs tank. Why not put up signs near hand sanitizer dispensers, hand out pamphlets outside your doctor's office or visit farms in the area and ask them to stop dumping antibiotics into the cattle's water supply? You know something really useful.

Should OP be properly cleaning his tank? Yes. Is he going to breed a super bug by not doing it correctly? It's inconceivably unlikely.

Oh and since you're asking for data about bleach, I assume you will have no problem producing something showing that such a small colony of bacteria poses a threat when not properly exposed to bleach. I'll wait.

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I did actually, a document that clearly says bleach full strength is rendered ineffective if the surface is not pre-cleaned. Why use bleach at all if it is doing nothing?

The point you all have missed is disinfecting dirty means you still have dirty. It DOES nothing at all.

The same for wipe out the same for CHD, CHG, F10sc, iodines, alcohols. None of them work on dirty.

Save your money and don't bother using disinfectants since they are being neutralized faster than they can do anything.






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Originally Posted by kitedemon

I did actually, a document that clearly says bleach full strength is rendered ineffective if the surface is not pre-cleaned. Why use bleach at all if it is doing nothing?

The point you all have missed is disinfecting dirty means you still have dirty. It DOES nothing at all.

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You must not have read what I posted correctly, what I was asking for was the study concerning small colonies of bacteria turning into super bugs from improper bleach usage. I have not seen this study yet. If you are so concerned about these things I have to ask, do you wash your hands with soap? Do you brush your teeth? Use mouthwash? Heck, do you shower? If you do then you are contributing daily (hopefully) to the problem of developing super bugs and should maybe take a step back.

And I never disputed he cleaned it wrong. Disinfecting dirty does leave you with dirty, unless you wipe it down. Even still proper procedure should be to wipe down first.

Oh I'm also wondering how you get your cages 100% clean as well. Following your method will still miss some bacteria. Unless you irradiate your tanks or have a really big autoclave you are just as guilty to contributing to the problem as the next person. But by all means if you have a really big autoclave (which by the way you have been acting here I'm sure you do) I would love to see some pictures. The one's we have at work aren't that big. Snap a few pics for me quick?

I don't use very weak mostly inactive disinfectants. Exposing bacteria to weak mostly in active chemical disinfectants allows them to survive and reproduce with higher resistance.

" Importantly, the study showed that when very small non-lethal amounts of disinfectant were added to the bacteria in culture, the adapted bacteria were more likely to survive compared to the non-adapted bacteria. Dr Gerard Fleming, who led the study, said: “In principle this means that residue from incorrectly diluted disinfectants left on hospital surfaces could promote the growth of antibiotic-resistant bacteria. What is more worrying is that bacteria seem to be able to adapt to resist antibiotics without even being exposed to them”.
http://www.nuigalway.ie/our-research...superbugs.html

http://www.education.nh.gov/instruct...infectants.pdf

The first demonstrated the issues of mids use of disinfectants the second demonstrates the fact that the way you have shown to use both bleach and ammonia compounds (wipeout) is not effective.

Is that enough? Or do you need more articles on mid use of disinfectants? There are lots.

The moral of the story is easy. Don't be lazy and wash first it is not hard it is just a little extra work.

Shall we take this moment to speak of saturation, and contact times?

What is the contact kill time for diluted bleach you should know this!



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Thanks for the bleach lessons can you give them with out sounding harsh?

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

I don't use very weak mostly inactive disinfectants. Exposing bacteria to weak mostly in active chemical disinfectants allows them to survive and reproduce with higher resistance.

" Importantly, the study showed that when very small non-lethal amounts of disinfectant were added to the bacteria in culture, the adapted bacteria were more likely to survive compared to the non-adapted bacteria. Dr Gerard Fleming, who led the study, said: “In principle this means that residue from incorrectly diluted disinfectants left on hospital surfaces could promote the growth of antibiotic-resistant bacteria. What is more worrying is that bacteria seem to be able to adapt to resist antibiotics without even being exposed to them”.
http://www.nuigalway.ie/our-research...superbugs.html

http://www.education.nh.gov/instruct...infectants.pdf



What is the contact kill time for diluted bleach you should know this!

10 minutes, common knowledge.

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Not all bacteria are equal, but you know this.

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

What is the contact kill time for diluted bleach you should know this!

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10 minutes, common knowledge.

I assume the autoclave pics are inbound?

No autoclave, but I do disinfect properly I am sorry that you feel that you need more. The fact still stands that there is DOCUMENTED , as you asked for, down sides to mis used disinfectants generate serious downsides. I have given the research you asked for that 'resistant bacteria' is not a myth and is directly linked to improper use of disinfectants. I have given articles that plainly prove that the instructions in the video are in correct and a mis use of products. (which is illegal by the way...) Now you are claiming that hospitals have different bacteria than the rest of the world and they are isolated?

I use a High level disinfectant I use it 100% correct time, dilution and pre treatment. It has a very broad effect, bactericidal, fungicidal ,virucidal ,sporicidal. I do not over use it or use weak versions it is highly effective. MRSA, Parvovirus, to name a few. Yes I am adding a tiny amount (the 1% not killed) but far less than those whom have demonstrated they don't have any idea of how to use disinfecting products. It is amazing everyone argues so strongly about a simple wash with soap and water and rinse, before disinfecting. :O

The products have instructions, follow them, why is that so hard?

You said it yourself, there are still bacteria left after your 100% proper cleaning method. That leaves some exposed to the disinfectant that weren't killed and with the reproductive rate of bacteria being so high... Would you like me to link you back to your study? It's the same thing. You can name drop infections all you like, but any disinfectant being used to clean a cage should be in the caliber that kills things like MRSA, Parvovirus, Staph and HIV. And again, you study was in a hospital where disinfectants are used ALL the time. They've already had years to adapt and are not comparable to those found in a BP tank.

Again, not killing 100% lets some survive and reproduce quickly doing exactly what you are so against. And since you never answered I'm guessing you do shower, wash your hands, brush your teeth, etc. Maybe take a look at yourself and you won't sound so hypocritical in the future.

No one here has claimed that you shouldn't follow the instructions, I said he should have multiple times :confusd:

Also please go back through your quote above and find the words could and more likely and read them into your brain as hard as you can.

So what are you arguing?

That no disinfectant should be used at all?

I am missing the point apparently.

I am arguing that posting instructions that do not use disinfectants correctly is a bad idea. apparently we agree. I stated that exposing bacteria to weak disinfectants leaves a very large open gap for mutation. The same concept of a flu shot a weak version is injected so your body can develop resistance. No it is not the same but there is a correlation to all living system they will generate a tolerance to environmental factors if introduced in small amounts. Yes, a very few survive and you are arguing that you should let large numbers survive?

Or that we should all use a bioactive system that keeps harmful bacterium balanced?

A captive system is not natural, it will generate bacteria good and bad. It is very difficult to keep such a micro system balanced and most do not have the expertise or facility to manage such a balance. That leaves a routine elimination of many bacteria harmful and helpful. This keeps harmful levels becoming excessive and effecting our animals, respiratory infection is caused by external vectors you cannot eliminate them but you can minimize them. I think that is the point.

What are you saying exactly, I get I am wrong part, lets move on, what else? Do not disinfect? It doesn't matter if you use disinfectant correctly or not? That killing most bacteria is the same as not killing any? what exactly is your point?

I'm saying that leaving a lot or leaving a little may make absolutely no difference at all. In the situation at hand they could (though highly unlikely) both produce resistant bacteria. Relative to the amount of bacteria being exposed to disinfectants that are spread around the general public this situation is so obscenely miniscule that it wouldn't even register. Plus it's also unlikely the general public or even a large volume of people will be exposed the OP's cage. It isn't as in your study, a hospital.


Disinfectant should be used, and it should be used properly. But this guy didn't need to be jumped on like that. If you're really this upset about it talk to a local medical facility, a school or visit a farm. Ask them how they do things, ask them to take down the hand sanitizer dispensers ask them to create better policies or ask them to stop putting antibiotics in the water for the livestock. These are big problems, high traffic areas. Don't jump on the poor guy, he was just trying to make a helpful video. Educate him for sure, but there's no reason for it to be like that.

Ok I am sorry if I used red and I am sorry that someone whom fails to read the label gets it pointed out they are not correct. I care deeply about people believing they are following instructional video that is completely incorrect. It perhaps it makes no difference, at all perhaps it does. I spent the rest of the time defending the position and being called names. That is cool I have a really thick skin.

The article describes a petri dish small weakened disinfectants being added. The result the bacteria is resistant to the disinfectant they were exposed to and oddly antibiotics unrelated as well. The fact the lab related to hospitals says one thing that the medical community commissioned the study. If one strain of bacteria can become resistant to a weak disinfectant should be enough, don't mis use disinfectants. RIs that is resistant to antibiotics is common. The fact much of the community demonstrates poor understanding of disinfectants and chemicals in general should be of concern. There is little studies done on captive herps, so the best we can do is extrapolate, I extrapolate that if one strain of bacteria can mutate to become resistant to disinfectants from weak exposure and in turn resistant to a set of antibiotics. Then I would surmise others would be able to as well. It isn't such a leap to my mind. The leap that the 1% or less that survives a full strength encounter will mutate to resist it is un backed. When I was young I had a streptococcus infection that was quite severe I did not develop a strong resistance I actually am quite susceptible to it now. I can't prove that the small amount of remaining bacteria will mutate to be resistant or will be susceptible I have never found a study to back this if you have a study that show using disinfectants correctly with high level of kill rates (99.5% broad) I would love to see it. The case still remains hospitals use monster quantities of disinfectants correctly. If this is a poor idea we are truly in trouble.

I don't know what to tell you to alleviate your fear, I believe correct use of disinfectant does not produce a sizeable number of mutated bacteria. Apparently you do, I would have nightmares. Where I work I do the best I can use soap and water rather than a hand sanitizer and if you choose to use it do so correctly 2 min wet time and rub in along nails and over wrists. It is the best I can do. The farmers I know tend not to use chemical disinfectants at all just steam, organic.


Weegsta, I am sorry if quoting the label and pointing out the error was such a large problem I did not intend to do so. Please accept my apology.

I actually did not think a comparison chart was scary I found it informative and a valid source. I did not mean to scare anyone with it.

Well this turned into a huge pile of ridiculous claptrap.

Closed until everyone feels thoroughly ashamed of themselves.