What would you do, as a buyer, in this situation?

I am in negotiations to buy a snake online. I was sent two bills by the seller (agreed to pay in 2 parts,) the first being on 4/13/13; the last being yesterday. The seller agreed to ship my snake out tomorrow for Tuesday arrival. I got a message from him this morning stating that there was a death in the family, and that he would either refund me the $ if I wanted, or ship out a week from tomorrow because he had to travel. I said okay, I would like the refund, since he offered it. That was this morning, and I have not gotten a reply or refund.

What would you do? If I hypothetically wait until next week and do nothing, that could bring out the date of a potential refund beyond the 20 days that the original transaction occurred, factoring in allowance for shipping delays (let's say the snake was a DOA, or something.) I am wondering if I should just seek to reverse the transactions, if possible. I am really scared of losing my money on this. The seller had pretty good feedback on the BOI, but not much of it.

I know that things happen, but I have seen so many tragedy scenarios in which people were scammed because the seller either has a legitimate tragedy and disappears for awhile (not something that I will tolerate either; tragedies happen, but I want either my money or the snake; more-so my money now, since I was offered a refund) or a scam from the get-go. The transactions were billed from him to me; he sent money requests that I responded to. Any info or help is appreciated, since I am getting none from the seller now.

If you used Paypal I'd go ahead and file a claim to get the process started. It won't hurt him in any way as long as it's resolved amicably, but it'll protect you in case he does try to cut and run.

that is what I did. Thanks for your reply :)

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

that is what I did. Thanks for your reply :)

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Your Welcome! As I said, nothing bad will happen to their account because you filed a claim, even if they don't respond within the given time frame. Worst that'll happen is the money is taken from them, but they pay no penalties and, unless they have multiple claims against them in a short amount of time, are in no danger of losing their account.

I wouldn't worry if it hasn't been even 24 hours yet... Especially if there had been a family death.

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Originally Posted by Billy305

I wouldn't worry if it hasn't been even 24 hours yet... Especially if there had been a family death.

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True, but there's no harm in getting the ball rolling just to CYA.

No harm except for getting yourself some negative light as a buyer on the BOI. If someone close to me died I'm not sure that I would even think to send someone a message and they would likely think that I'd dropped off the face of the earth. That said, once I were to get home from a funeral, visiting family, etc., I would get the snake sent out.

Yeah, but the guy offered to refund the money and didn't. Personally, I wouldn't view someone who filed a claim in that circumstance in a negative light, and would wonder about anyone that did. Remember, there are two levels of claims on PayPal. The first basically just lets PP know that there might be a problem, and gets them to let the seller know that their buyer is dissatisfied and gives the two of them the opportunity to work it out. Nothing wrong with that.

We understand what you are saying, but under HIS circumstances it doesn't seem fair to not let him make good on his word. He offered you the chance for a refund but since you didn't get it immediately, you are filing a complaint with PayPal.

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Originally Posted by Billy305

We understand what you are saying, but under HIS circumstances it doesn't seem fair to not let him make good on his word. He offered you the chance for a refund but since you didn't get it immediately, you are filing a complaint with PayPal.

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You don't seem to understand how PP Buyer Protection works. He's still got plenty of time to make good on his word, and the OP stated that she would rather have her money back in this case. Starting the claim process does nothing but give her the ability to get her money back regardless of the seller's actions.

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Originally Posted by ChaosAffect

Yeah, but the guy offered to refund the money and didn't.

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You are already assuming he's not going to refund the money and as stated before the buyer still has over a week to make the claim.

Again why wouldn't you even suggest allowing a single business day for the seller to make good on his word. Like you said there is still plenty of time to get the ball rolling with PayPal.

Sounds like buyers remorse. One little hiccup on shipping and you want a refund? And after the seller agreed to work with you on payments? JMO, but I would say give it some time and see how it plays out...

So he had a death in the family THIS morning and you're upset that he hasn't responded yet or refunded your money?

It hasn't even been 24 hours and you're already filing a PayPal dispute?

I'd at least give him a day or two before freaking out...

I just want the refund that he offered me. He is being communicative now, and all is good. I am just used to being inundated with stories of scammers who do this type of thing on another forum. I am not in any way saying that this guy is a scammer. I know that when I have been in bad situations, business and other matters took a backseat for awhile; maybe weeks. If I would have had to think of shipping animals during that time, it would not have been something that I'd have wanted to do, and I would rather take myself out of the equation to prevent further woe that could occur. I would rather just get the money back and in the same tone, also take the worries of him shipping the snake to me out of the equation.

You guys who haven't been through it would be surprised how many times a death in the family is used as an excuse by scammers. The guy offered the refund, why are you all jumping all over the OP for taking him up on his offer? It's not like she demanded it, he offered. My spidey senses were tingling as soon as I heard death in the family. It's just too common to overlook.

All of you, or most of you, are jumping on the OP in much the same manner you are accusing her of using on the seller.

I always pictured you as more of a Sabretooth, less of a Spiderman, wilomn.

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Originally Posted by wilomn

You guys who haven't been through it would be surprised how many times a death in the family is used as an excuse by scammers. The guy offered the refund, why are you all jumping all over the OP for taking him up on his offer? It's not like she demanded it, he offered. My spidey senses were tingling as soon as I heard death in the family. It's just too common to overlook.

All of you, or most of you, are jumping on the OP in much the same manner you are accusing her of using on the seller.

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Probably because the OP is complaining about getting her refund before the sellers deceased family members body is even cold...

I would give them at least a couple days before filing a claim.

If it is true that there was a death in the family, then they will be extremely busy.

Plus, you have plenty of time to file a claim with Paypal if the seller stops responding.

Best of luck to you!

Sorry but we have no proof there was a death in the family...other than the seller's word.....

WAY too many times that's been used before...did none of you EVER use it with teachers/professors back in high school or university? I sure as hell know I did.....

I think you should at least give him 48hrs before becoming alarmed. I had something sorta similar happen:
I had told a seller that i'd shoot them a Paypal payment the next day when i got outta work. I wake up the next morning and am dying all throughout work. I had a BAD stomach bug. I got home and took a shower and went to bed immediately. The next day i was feeling a little better but still sick. It wasn't until the day after that when the seller contacted me asking if there was a problem. That was roughly 48hrs. By then i was feeling better and explained what had happened and it was all good. In those 48hrs when i was sick as a dog, the thought of "oh i forgot to send that payment!", never even crossed my mind lol. So yes, i can understand how a death in the family could distract the seller. I personally wouldn't worry about it unless i didn't hear anything for at least 48ish hours. I may be more easy going than most people though. I dunno, just me 2¢

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Originally Posted by sho220

Probably because the OP is complaining about getting her refund before the sellers deceased family members body is even cold...

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This. Yes we know the refund was offered by the seller but since its been hours and its not in the buyers hand they are considering filing a complaint.

I realize all kinds of different excuses are used by scammers, but not everyone is a scammer and stuff does happen. What we are saying is that the seller should give the buyer a reasonable amount of time before jumping to conclusions.

What I would do would depend on who the seller is and how good is rep is?

Things do happen and since there is no emergency I would wait another week.

Now if the seller sounded fishy I would want my money back.

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Originally Posted by Billy305

This. Yes we know the refund was offered by the seller but since its been hours and its not in the buyers hand they are considering filing a complaint.

I realize all kinds of different excuses are used by scammers, but not everyone is a scammer and stuff does happen. What we are saying is that the seller should give the buyer a reasonable amount of time before jumping to conclusions.

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The seller only offered her the refund this morning.

I understand that scammers use this method and others, but to start worrying when It hasn't even been 24 hours is a little rash..

I could lean both ways on this. Yeah I could understand a death in the family could delay, but at the same time, it's getting harder and harder to trust ppl these days.
I kinda went through the same thing but with a babysitter for my daughter the past few months. One death after another and finally I did to hell with this.

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Seller does not have much feedback. I admit to being mistrustful of many people, but it is only because I have gotten burned before. I have gotten burned in transactions (not reptile-related) by people with good reps, too. I would just rather get the refund and be done with it. Seller states that they overspent and need a few days.. I am fine with that, although my gut instinct says to be irritated. I personally do not spend $ that's been paid for an item before the item is safely in the buyer's hands, but that is just me. Again, I just wanted to get others' opinions after a few hours of no communication.. it is all being resolved as good as it can be right now. And again, I know that I personally, like anyone else, could function out-of-character during tragedy, which is why I just want to get the funds asap and have it all be water under the bridge, and the seller can go on with an unfortunate life event and move on.

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Originally Posted by yeroc1982

I could lean both ways on this. Yeah I could understand a death in the family could delay, but at the same time, it's getting harder and harder to trust ppl these days.
I kinda went through the same thing but with a babysitter for my daughter the past few months. One death after another and finally I did to hell with this.

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Yeah but did you ditch her after the first "death"?

I'd understand worrying if they hadn't messaged back in 48 hours. She hadn't even given him 24 hours before she wanted to dispute the transaction.

I also come from a strong debt-collecting background that has made me learn that time is a big factor. Let's say that I said okay, for the seller to ship it in a week. That's a whole week that real-world needs for money could deplete the funds that I sent, and possibly even make shipping not doable because of costs and travel expenses. I am not saying that I am a perfect human being or that in a tragedy, I would absolutely not spend $ in my account if it meant life or death. I am simply saying that the faster the $ is returned, the less likely that would be; since the seller already spent some of the money, I would fear more. I have nothing against the seller and will say nothing bad about them; just wanting it closed.

I did not actually dispute in any way that'd hurt their reputation with paypal, either. Just sent a request for the funds. When it is my hard-earned money that I cannot really technically afford to spend (vet visits and such are another matter; I have a Care Credit line for that if vet needs arose; this is money that, you know.. we all could use for other things like paying more down on our debt, etc, but spend on a snake because we deserve little rewards in life.) when it is your money, I guess that it's different. But everyone would handle the situation in their own way, and it is not up to me to say who's right or wrong for every buyer out there.

edit: could technically afford it, or I would not have wanted to buy.. but that does not mean that the $ is just something that I can afford to lose right now. If that makes sense.

edit 2: I am not saying that the seller is mistrustful. I worry because they do not have pages and pages of feedback. So it is like trying to get a car when a person has little credit; lenders are leary of that; no history built up. Some could say that I should not have bought from a seller with few good feedbacks (yet no bad that I can see.) I like to give people chances, though. But I think that I have prattled on long enough; just wishing a speedy return, and wishing the seller my sympathies in their hardship.

Agree with Wilomn.

Also, stuff happens in life. Engaging in good business means you take care of it even when said bad stuff happens. I'm not saying it has to be their top priority, but we're talking about 5 minutes on a computer TOPS to get a refund sorted. If they think the buyer really wants the animal they have no reason to believe they wouldn't simply send the money again once they're in a position to be able to complete the transaction. Most people keep the internet in their pocket everywhere they go. Think about the process when someone dies. Do you run out the door with one pant leg on, squeal away in your car, dive into an airplane, fly somewhere, and then take part in continuous activity from the second you wake till the second you sleep for weeks on end? I know people grieve in different ways, but I don't think it's insensitive to ask for 5 minutes of their time to get their business handled before travelling. I think it's a request for a reasonable level of professionalism.

This is classic shady excuse #1. I don't think OP is out of line for being a little suspect. Hopefully it all works out.

If the seller offered the refund he should have been ready to give it.
It takes 5mins to log into PayPal and do a few clicks.

I bet the funeral home even has a computer he could use.

I would have filed a claim and emailed the seller letting him know it was just cautionary. That way it plays off that you trust him to take care of it but PayPal is already involved in the issue.

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I will not be getting a refund. I received a message from the seller saying that his TOS on his website state that he will not ship if the temperatures are below 40 low, which they are this week. I am going to be a man about it and just wait for the snake to be shipped. Really don't know what else to do, short of just having the seller ship the snake next week, or maybe three weeks or so from now, if it does not get warmer, which it probably will not. I am so fed up with everything that I will probably not buy any snakes from anyone who I do not either know personally or who has not been around for at least five years with at least 50 good feedbacks.

Of course, this is going to pull the hypothetical date of shipping out, way beyond the stupid 20 days from the original payment date. I am just shaking my head. And I want to change the "probably" in the previous post to "definitely." I just became a personal loan for someone, without the benefit of interest, I guess. The seller obviously spent my money before I received the snake. I really wish that I had dealt with a larger breeder who did not need to cause their checking or paypal to go into the negative and do this to me.

I implore you to rethink that. Because some of the best people do not have BOI feedback and could be just starting out

While it sucks, you should've read his TOS and should've looked at weather. It's all part of buying online.

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Again, throw the claim and email the seller that it's precautionary. That way PayPal can help, and it won't go into the out of date range to where PayPal can't do anything.

You're giving up, and whining about it at this point. You have resources at your disposal, use them.

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I don't see anything wrong with covering your butt. Better paranoid for nothing than trusting then getting screwed over.

I am fighting this. I demanded my refund now. Seller said that he has the money and did not spend it, but won't refund because of the TOS that I say were not on the Kingsnake ad that I replied to, anyway. I was offered a refund, then received a stall tactic before said refund, and now am getting rejection instead of a refund. If the guy would just refund My money now, as we agreed to yesterday (well, okay, by Wednesday, since he did spend my money and then went back and said that he does have the funds) this could all be fine.

Thanks for your post, Kodeih. It makes perfect sense. I am not giving up now. :) Paypal dispute has been filed.

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Originally Posted by Kodieh

I would have filed a claim and emailed the seller letting him know it was just cautionary. That way it plays off that you trust him to take care of it but PayPal is already involved in the issue.

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This. As long as there's no unwarranted negative impact on my business, I don't see why I wouldn't understand a buyer taking precautions to protect themselves in light of extraneous circumstances, were I the seller. In all honesty, even without malice a return could go unfulfilled due to grief or legal complications surrounding a death. It happens.

"Hey [seller], I just wanted to give you a heads up that I filed a claim through pay pal. I'm not implying anything about the legitimacy of your business or the moral fabric of your character. I'm just more comfortable putting the return "on the record," so to speak, to protect myself. I mean you no disrespect by it, and in fact really appreciate that you proactively reached out to me with options for moving forward. Though I chose not to pursue this sale, I'd still be open to purchasing individuals from you in the future. Thank you for your understanding, and I'm very sorry for your loss."

Establish a reasonable timeline (most funerals happen within a week or so) for the return that you and the seller can agree on, and pursue a dispute/BOI if the seller doesn't abide by that (written!) agreement.

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Originally Posted by 3skulls

I bet the funeral home even has a computer he could use.

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In the middle of a funeral you're suggesting this guy ask the funeral home if he could use their computer to refund some incredibly impatient chick who bought a snake from him and is now in such a frigging rush she can't wait a few days???


This has all transpired in like 36 hours...I just gotta ask...What is the big freaking rush?

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Originally Posted by sho220

In the middle of a funeral you're suggesting this guy ask the funeral home if he could use their computer to refund some incredibly impatient chick who bought a snake from him and is now in such a frigging rush she can't wait a few days???


This has all transpired in like 36 hours...I just gotta ask...What is the big freaking rush?

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Ummm... I'm pretty sure that was a joke.

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Originally Posted by sho220

In the middle of a funeral you're suggesting this guy ask the funeral home if he could use their computer to refund some incredibly impatient chick who bought a snake from him and is now in such a frigging rush she can't wait a few days???


This has all transpired in like 36 hours...I just gotta ask...What is the big freaking rush?

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It's called being cautious. How many times have we seen someone talk about a scammer and they used the "someone I know died recently" as the reason they "need a while before they can refund the money". I'm not saying in any way that the seller IS a scammer, and neither did the OP, but with the "someone died" coupled with "I don't have your money right now" I would be a little antsy too. I've seen so many people talk about this sort of thing with these as common excuses. But, the OP didn't flip out on the seller or start accusing them of being a scammer, she simply asked what options she had to ensure that she COULD get her money returned JUST IN CASE something went south.

We don't know the seller in real life. They could have every intention of refunding her money and keeping their word, but if it was a sudden death (not like someone had been ill for a while and they knew it was coming eventually or something like that) of a relative then they could have so much to do in a short amount of time that it wouldn't be hard to forget about someone you don't even know, then later go "oh crud, the refund!"

Doesn't make either of them a bad person, just means that the OP is keeping her butt covered for any unexpected happenings.

No not in the middle of the funeral but if he is sitting at a viewing for a couple of days.

Me, personally, wouldn't be in as big of a rush if I was the OP but he had the time to offer the refund.
Me, being a seller and I knew somebody wanted their money back. I would be in a huge rush to get the refund done.

To me the whole "Offer a refund, then retract it" kinda tells me that this is not a guy I'd want to do business with anyways.

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Originally Posted by ChaosAffect

To me the whole "Offer a refund, then retract it" kinda tells me that this is not a guy I'd want to do business with anyways.

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Yeah this should definitely not be overlooked.

I hope you get a refund and just move on :(.. I don't care what your TOS says.. If you offered a refund, and I accepted it, give me my refund. There's no other stipulations.. None of this TOS nonsense. Get your money back.

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Originally Posted by ChaosAffect

Ummm... I'm pretty sure that was a joke.

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Nope...see post #43

I'm curious who the seller is...

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Originally Posted by DooLittle

I'm curious who the seller is...

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https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...pvSnIldma4pB_R

Guys i think is all just a matter of opinions kinda deal.

Some people would be able to think about the buyer and get them the refund right away. Other people may be too distracted to think of the buyer. Everyone handles death and those kinda emotions differently. Some people couldn't imagine worrying about a transaction after a family member has died and other people would be able to make sure the refund gets sent ASAP.

Imo, one mindset is not better than the other. We're all unique lol. :gj:

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Originally Posted by sho220

In the middle of a funeral you're suggesting this guy ask the funeral home if he could use their computer to refund some incredibly impatient chick who bought a snake from him and is now in such a frigging rush she can't wait a few days???


This has all transpired in like 36 hours...I just gotta ask...What is the big freaking rush?

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When dealing on the Internet, you need to act quickly. It's also not like the OP paid for the animal and no shipping has been discussed. Shipping was discussed, it had a set day to ship, and the seller backed off of it and offered a refund. Then backed off of that too.

It's shady, and she's done the right thing despite what your opinion of the situation is.

In fact! The date today is April 22nd, she paid the first of two payments on April 13th. That's 216 hours by the way I do math.
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