Looking for info on getting a big Sub Saharan

I have been reading old threads on the huge 5000-8000 gram sub saharan females and curious where i look into acquiring one. Outback Reptiles is a name commonly mentioned but I could not find them on their website. I couldn't find any on kingsnake either. Does anyone on here have any or know where i could find them? Any info on these giants is appreaciated. Thanks

They usually only come around a few times a year and outback is one of the only people that has them.

Yes Outback gets them and just sold out in Feb. Usually they get them in the winter, first of the year. Contact Ian or Josh either via their website or on facebook but they will tell you to wait until next season as they are currently sold out. Its usually first come first serve I don't believe they sell in advance as they do not know what they are getting and price snakes according to size/weight and whether or not they are gravid or not. Ian and Josh are both great, i actually just picked up a wc yellowbelly girl from them on saturday. They are great to do business with and get nice imports in. Good luck!

If the info i'm looking at its correct then the gene is dominant and since i have found them in articles back to 2007 you would think that there should be babies being sold by now. I'm a bit curious why cb babies are impossible to find. Is it just because they are all spoken for before they are born or what? Thanks for the input guys!:gj:

I doubt that you will get a girl over 5000g. This year they had a 4900g gravid come in and she was $800. Usually the animals run between 2800-4000g. The main reason for this is because they are highly sought after for their meat in the region. Also the hike to get up to the area where they live is pretty dangerous terrain and there are some warlords living in that area as well. Josh was telling me that one of the reasons they have had less numbers in previous years is because one of their collectors actually got murdered while he was in the region.

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Originally Posted by Johnmb

If the info i'm looking at its correct then the gene is dominant and since i have found them in articles back to 2007 you would think that there should be babies being sold by now. I'm a bit curious why cb babies are impossible to find. Is it just because they are all spoken for before they are born or what? Thanks for the input guys!:gj:

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I actually found out that the gigantism is polygenetic.

However, we will have 11 C.H. hatchlings this week from our Volta girl (day 53 now), get em while they last though :P.

"Giant" ball pythons are not suffering from gigantism, they are merely a local population variant that is unusually larger for the species. The phenotype in pocket populations like these are the result of selective pressures and more often than not they are polygenetic in nature. As such, offspring from these animals cannot correctly be called "giants" unless both parents are from said population.

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Originally Posted by OctagonGecko729

I doubt that you will get a girl over 5000g. This year they had a 4900g gravid come in and she was $800. Usually the animals run between 2800-4000g. The main reason for this is because they are highly sought after for their meat in the region. Also the hike to get up to the area where they live is pretty dangerous terrain and there are some warlords living in that area as well. Josh was telling me that one of the reasons they have had less numbers in previous years is because one of their collectors actually got murdered while he was in the region.

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Not sure where you are getting your information from, but it is highly inaccurate. Ball pythons are not highly sought after for their meat. As mater of fact try killing and eating one in Nigeria and see what would happen. Supposedly the "giant" or "sub Saharan" ball pythons are from the Volta region. (funny as the whole area that ball pythons are found is the sub saharan) This is actually a region of the south eastern part of Ghana on the border of Togo. Warlords are not rampant in this area. Ghana does have tribes and chieftains which do have conflict with each other at times. There has been a land issue between the Nkonya and the Alavanyo going on since 1923 and has just recently gotten heated again this past month. But all in all Ghana is not a very dangerous place.
I have not seen much of a decline in the selling of these particular balls as of late. Actually seems to have picked up some. There where quite a few for sale this past year and this one so far. If you ask me they are nothing more than nice old, well fed specimens. Until someone proves them to be genetically larger than any others. We have 4 girls that are over 4kg. We have never seen any differences between the babies from them and the babies from our other smaller females.

What's funny to me is I know a couple people who have purchased these "sub Saharans" and they are 3000-4000g but I know a few breeders who have normal cbb ball pythons that are 4000-5000g. So I know that in that Volta region they are known to "grow larger" in general but I have a girl here at my house that is not a sub Saharan that is pushing 4000g. So I'm not really sure if the extra $$$ for a normal snake is worth it......still undecided....I personally think I would rather put that $800 towards a pied girl myself ;)

Edit: Tessadas I just read what you wrote...apparety you agree! Lol I also am not so sure they are not just well fed large normal ball pythons....I would be interested to see if indeed someone proved them to be genetic. They are also being sold as WC gravids laying large clutches with no slugs but my answer to that is NATURE! it's amazing how in nature snakes can become gravid, find those temps and never lay a single slugs. Something we just cannot seem to 100% accurately duplicate here in captivity.

I purchase a female about 3 or 4 years ago, she was a very thin 749 grams. she is now over 5000 grams. I don't know which region her blood line comes from. but she's still hungry and she's a big girl. I might have to start getting my rats from nutrisystem! here's a pic of her. don



http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...ormal_no_2.jpg

that's a breeding size pastel clown I place with her to show her size. she's also in a cb70 tub. the water dish is at the front of the tub and the back is right behind her.

I have also not seen any of the 4kg gravid females selling for $800. I have seen them being sold for about $400.

So from what i'm gathering the sub saharans have bigger heads but tend to be the size of real big normals and not much bigger. (If there is even a difference) So is the general consensus to just get females from normals that are very large? All my females are much smaller, all 450-1800 grams. Just weighed them all yesterday. Hoping they all get huge. :D

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Originally Posted by TessadasExotics

Not sure where you are getting your information from, but it is highly inaccurate. Ball pythons are not highly sought after for their meat. As mater of fact try killing and eating one in Nigeria and see what would happen. Supposedly the "giant" or "sub Saharan" ball pythons are from the Volta region. (funny as the whole area that ball pythons are found is the sub saharan) This is actually a region of the south eastern part of Ghana on the border of Togo. Warlords are not rampant in this area. Ghana does have tribes and chieftains which do have conflict with each other at times. There has been a land issue between the Nkonya and the Alavanyo going on since 1923 and has just recently gotten heated again this past month. But all in all Ghana is not a very dangerous place.
I have not seen much of a decline in the selling of these particular balls as of late. Actually seems to have picked up some. There where quite a few for sale this past year and this one so far. If you ask me they are nothing more than nice old, well fed specimens. Until someone proves them to be genetically larger than any others. We have 4 girls that are over 4kg. We have never seen any differences between the babies from them and the babies from our other smaller females.

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I have to disagree with you, I have heard from many down here in miami that indeed ball pythons are being sold for their meat. This season for example the wholesale price of CBB normals actually went up because China bought huge amounts of CH BP's before they could make it to the US market.

I also heard that the Chinese are actually growing the females and trying to reproduce them for sale much like they do with turtles already.

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Originally Posted by Emilio

I have to disagree with you, I have heard from many down here in miami that indeed ball pythons are being sold for their meat. This season for example the wholesale price of CBB normals actually went up because China bought huge amounts of CH BP's before they could make it to the US market.

I also heard that the Chinese are actually growing the females and trying to reproduce them for sale much like they do with turtles already.

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That is fine and you can disagree with me all you want. The thing is is that you are disagreeing about an incorrect thought.
The statement was that ball pythons where being highly sought after in the region for their meat. Which would imply that they are being caught and eaten in africa as a delicacy. They are not to my knowledge. Maybe some people do, but largly they are not. They are caught and or farmed for Export. What an importer does with them is different. We were talking about Africa not China.

We have several females well over 4000 grams and a few that are over 5000. I disagree that size is not genetic. I believe it can be by evidence of some of my Pied and het Pied animals. My largest girl being a 5500 gram het Pied and several of her offspring in the 3500-4000 gram range. I agree, the Volta animals are probably just old, well-fed adults.

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Originally Posted by TessadasExotics

That is fine and you can disagree with me all you want. The thing is is that you are disagreeing about an incorrect thought.
The statement was that ball pythons where being highly sought after in the region for their meat. Which would imply that they are being caught and eaten in africa as a delicacy. They are not to my knowledge. Maybe some people do, but largly they are not. They are caught and or farmed for Export. What an importer does with them is different. We were talking about Africa not China.

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To me it does not matter where they are eaten, my point was that some are now being caught specifically for the meat trade and not the US Pet market.

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Originally Posted by TessadasExotics

Not sure where you are getting your information from, but it is highly inaccurate. Ball pythons are not highly sought after for their meat. As mater of fact try killing and eating one in Nigeria and see what would happen. Supposedly the "giant" or "sub Saharan" ball pythons are from the Volta region. (funny as the whole area that ball pythons are found is the sub saharan) This is actually a region of the south eastern part of Ghana on the border of Togo. Warlords are not rampant in this area. Ghana does have tribes and chieftains which do have conflict with each other at times. There has been a land issue between the Nkonya and the Alavanyo going on since 1923 and has just recently gotten heated again this past month. But all in all Ghana is not a very dangerous place.
I have not seen much of a decline in the selling of these particular balls as of late. Actually seems to have picked up some. There where quite a few for sale this past year and this one so far. If you ask me they are nothing more than nice old, well fed specimens. Until someone proves them to be genetically larger than any others. We have 4 girls that are over 4kg. We have never seen any differences between the babies from them and the babies from our other smaller females.

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I apologize if I did not state that I heard this as a "story" about the murder. No idea if its true or not. All I was told was that their collector got killed by some local so they had collection issues last year (2011). I also don't know who is consuming them for meat but they are being consumed and the larger the animal the more cash it is bringing in, meaning alot of the large girls aren't around.

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Originally Posted by TessadasExotics

I have also not seen any of the 4kg gravid females selling for $800. I have seen them being sold for about $400.

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Ah, guess you missed it then, it was on kingsnake and sometimes those animals get buried in the pages. 4900g gravid WC volta female for $800 or so from Outback.

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Originally Posted by OctagonGecko729

Ah, guess you missed it then, it was on kingsnake and sometimes those animals get buried in the pages. 4900g gravid WC volta female for $800 or so from Outback.

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Hmmm I must have. I always see outbacks listings when the gravid girls come in. I have never to my recollection seen any that were listed anywhere near 800. Pretty sure they sell them between 300 and 500. But then I guess I could be remembering wrong.

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Originally Posted by OctagonGecko729

I apologize if I did not state that I heard this as a "story" about the murder. No idea if its true or not. All I was told was that their collector got killed by some local so they had collection issues last year (2011). I also don't know who is consuming them for meat but they are being consumed and the larger the animal the more cash it is bringing in, meaning alot of the large girls aren't around.

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Maybe it's just me but I would bet that the highest price paid for a ball python would be to the pet trade and not for consumption. The US is absolutely not the only importer of ball pythons. Canada and Europe are also huge importers of them.

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Originally Posted by TessadasExotics

Hmmm I must have. I always see outbacks listings when the gravid girls come in. I have never to my recollection seen any that were listed anywhere near 800. Pretty sure they sell them between 300 and 500. But then I guess I could be remembering wrong.

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Yeah she came in during the second big shipment they got. I went to go pickup some heat tape he owed me about a week after she was up on KS and he told me she was gone. Really wanted to see her in person, the other voltas he had though were still pretty amazing, their heads look like carpet pythons :P.

Here she is on Outback's facebook https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=1&theater

That is for sure an insane price. Like I said all the ones I have seen have been half that price for 800g less.

Here's a question for all of you that have 5000 gram females that are not "volta". How many eggs are you getting from them on an average year?

I've had two 4,700 gram girls (origin unknown) produce 14 egg clutches; but they were huge near 120 gram eggs (I'd rather have had 20 eggs 80 grams each but it doesn't seem to work that way with big girls). One of them I'm hoping will go for the 7th year in a row this year. The other I only got 3 clutches in 10 years so I sold her for I think it was $125.

I'm seeing about the same as Randy. My big het Pied girl usually throws 14 eggs but they are always in the 120 gram range. Her daughter is due to lay any day. I just got a 9 egg clutch from a 3000 gram Pastel het Pied from the same lineage......and she's a 2009.

My Pewter Pied girl is ovulating now at around 2500 grams and less than 30 months old. She is a big girl and it's one clutch I've been looking forward to since 2010. Hopefully my Enchi pos. het Pied is the one that got her.

I picked up two females from Outback this past winter, and I paid $600 for them both. Both turned out to be holding sperm. After they were here for a couple of months, I put multi-gene co-dom males on both of them at the same time. They both laid within hours of each other and the eggs hatched from both at the same time as well. The results were all normals which leads me to believe they were already inseminated and the new boys just got them going.

The 3500g girl produced 10 out of 10 eggs, the 3800g girl produced 11 out of 11 and a slug. Some of them are quite a lot larger than some of their clutch mates. I'll be keeping a couple of pair. I also got captive hatched normals and dinkers from Africa, also form Outback that were born at the same time. I'll let you know in the fall how their weights compare just in time for the next group of Sub Saharan imports.

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Originally Posted by billewicz

I picked up two females from Outback this past winter, and I paid $600 for them both. Both turned out to be holding sperm. After they were here for a couple of months, I put multi-gene co-dom males on both of them at the same time. They both laid within hours of each other and the eggs hatched from both at the same time as well. The results were all normals which leads me to believe they were already inseminated and the new boys just got them going.

The 3500g girl produced 10 out of 10 eggs, the 3800g girl produced 11 out of 11 and a slug. Some of them are quite a lot larger than some of their clutch mates. I'll be keeping a couple of pair. I also got captive hatched normals and dinkers from Africa, also form Outback that were born at the same time. I'll let you know in the fall how their weights compare just in time for the next group of Sub Saharan imports.

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Interesting although I did have a female last year that I had for 2 years (never paired previously) and bred her with a double gene male and she gave me 8 good eggs all normals. Kinda puts a new swing on the joke "super normal" :P