RIP Victoria / Necropsy Photos

Graphic Photos Below

You will be missed
http://i1057.photobucket.com/albums/...ps58b06101.jpg

A few weeks ago we lost Victoria, our BCI female. She appeared healthy, we had no worry of anything being wrong.
We had been breeding her over the past few months and thought everything was going well.

2 weeks before she passed she regurged her meal the day after she was fed. I double checked her temps and they were on the cool side. I upped them (during a very cold snap). She seemed a little lethargic for a couple of days after her regurg then started to come around acting like herself again. 4 days before she passed we soaked her with some warm water mixed with pidilite.

She passed away over night. I found her on the morning check in. She was twisted up and had her teeth suck in her side, like she bit herself.


Today we did our own necropsy.

Me and my girlfriend both have experience in rehabbing and rescue but we are far from Vets. We were looking for something that looked odd, an impaction, tumor etc.

It did look like the Gall Bladder was open with the staining but thought maybe it could be from freezing her.

The only other odd thing that we could find was in her Oviducts. She had little knots going down one of them. When we cut them open (the knots, lumps) they looked pretty rotten. It was filled with a nasty brownish liquid. We are not sure if something went wrong with her building..?

If anyone has any input or sees something that I might not even know to look at, please feel free to chime in here.
She had never been sick before and we have our male in QT.

Graphic Photos Below...
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http://i1057.photobucket.com/albums/...ps789a285d.jpg

http://i1057.photobucket.com/albums/...ps39806ea3.jpg

Gall Bladder area
http://i1057.photobucket.com/albums/...psa4f5ded3.jpg

http://i1057.photobucket.com/albums/...ps7b457b59.jpg

Heart
http://i1057.photobucket.com/albums/...pscd0ae23f.jpg

Lung
http://i1057.photobucket.com/albums/...ps14cff379.jpg

Lumps on Oviduct
http://i1057.photobucket.com/albums/...psf9f6e987.jpg

Kidney
http://i1057.photobucket.com/albums/...ps993c7aad.jpg

Everything is labeled to the best of our knowledge, and everything looked to be pretty healthy...?

I miss her :(

Sorry for your loss. What a terrible thing to find on your morning checks. :(

Sent from my ADR6410LVW using Tapatalk 2

Wow, thank you for taking the time to share this story. I know it must be hard, but hopefully the education through these pics and the story may help someone else. I'm afraid I am no help in identifying cause of death, but I wanted to chime and tell you sorry for your loss. She was beautiful.

I'm so sorry for you. She was really beautiful, and left too soon.

Thanks everyone.

I hate not knowing what happened.

So very sorry for your loss. :tears:

Sorry for you lost 3skull. It's a sad day to lose such a pretty gem in your collection :(


Sent from iPhone 5 using tapatalk :)

Sorry for your loss 3Skulls.....any chance you sample anything as you went to be able to microscope it or send it to a vet?

Do you have any more detailed pictures of the oviduct or those lumps?

Was there any seemingly unusual blood pooling anywhere near the organs, in the organs, in between tissue layers?

Any other weird behavior that in hindsight might stick out now?

I am so sorry that happened :( sending positive energy your way

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OsirisRa32

Sorry for your loss 3Skulls.....any chance you sample anything as you went to be able to microscope it or send it to a vet?

Do you have any more detailed pictures of the oviduct or those lumps?

Was there any seemingly unusual blood pooling anywhere near the organs, in the organs, in between tissue layers?

Any other weird behavior that in hindsight might stick out now?

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We didn't take any samples but did keep all the organs. Wasn't sure what to look for under the microscope.

We talked to 3 different vets and they all said they couldn't do tissue samples because we froze her..?

No pooling of blood anywhere. That's the best pic I got of one of the lumps. When cut open, it was a very gross looking brown mush.

I'm sorry I didn't get better photos.

The only pooling was in the gall bladder section. The Green color. I'm not even sure if that's from the gall bladder or not. It was just in that area.

We do have a digital scope at home. I think it's 80-800x. Is there anything an untrained eye can look for?

I was also thinking of going back and opening up the digestive track to look for any parasites.

Does anything jump out from the pics at all?

Thanks for the help.

Sorry for your loss :(

Sorry for your loss 3skulls, she was a beautiful animal. I hope that you can find out some more information on why, as not knowing can heavily weigh on you.

I'm so sorry for your loss. :( I don't have input from a medical perspective, but I wanted to give my condolences. It's hard to lose a beloved pet.

Thanks everyone.

She is the first snake I have ever lost (in the 20+ years of keeping snakes) that I feel it could have been something I overlooked. Did I over stress her from breeding? I just feel guilty because I don't know what it was.

The male is still doing well. He is in a shed cycle right now. Still eating and putting on weight.

Sorry to hear that man, pretty girl I hope your able to find out what happened too her. :(. I hope the male stays nice and healthy for you too.

Might be worth it to bring the male in for a quick check-up.

When you freeze cells they burst, which is why they can't do the tissue culture. It wouldn't be accurate.

Sorry that happened.

We called to see how much a full blood work up would be on him. I'm putting money aside now.

We did talk to one of the best Herp Vets in the area over the phone. She said without her having any other signs or symptoms, she doesn't think it was anything like IBD.

Between that Vet and the head of the Vet tech program at the local Zoo. They both lean to her having some type of complication due to breeding. Stress and or her eggs dying and becoming septic.

If we learn anything else, I will be sure to pass it along.

When my first snake died, there was also a green-ish discolouration around the same area. It was visible through the scales, as well. He was a sick young snake, though, when we got him, and just didn't make it.

I'm not sure what it was, we didn't get a necropsy done.

Sorry for your loss.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 3skulls

We didn't take any samples but did keep all the organs. Wasn't sure what to look for under the microscope.

We talked to 3 different vets and they all said they couldn't do tissue samples because we froze her..?

No pooling of blood anywhere. That's the best pic I got of one of the lumps. When cut open, it was a very gross looking brown mush.

I'm sorry I didn't get better photos.

The only pooling was in the gall bladder section. The Green color. I'm not even sure if that's from the gall bladder or not. It was just in that area.

We do have a digital scope at home. I think it's 80-800x. Is there anything an untrained eye can look for?

I was also thinking of going back and opening up the digestive track to look for any parasites.

Does anything jump out from the pics at all?

Thanks for the help.

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Sent you a PM

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 3skulls

We called to see how much a full blood work up would be on him. I'm putting money aside now.

We did talk to one of the best Herp Vets in the area over the phone. She said without her having any other signs or symptoms, she doesn't think it was anything like IBD.

Between that Vet and the head of the Vet tech program at the local Zoo. They both lean to her having some type of complication due to breeding. Stress and or her eggs dying and becoming septic.

If we learn anything else, I will be sure to pass it along.

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Were there issues with her breeding/eggs?

No issues that we knew of.
They were just giving us ideas over the phone without seeing her.

My phone is about to die. I'll reply to the PM here in a bit.

Thank you.

Sorry for the loss mate. Hope you never need the advice but in the future if you want to preserve an animal for a necropsy, you want to refrigerate but not freeze. Again sorry for your loss.

How long can you keep them cool before they start to get gross? It would have been days before we could have got her in somewhere.

Parasites would have made her sick, but not killed her so quickly without symptoms. IBD would have manifested with symptoms before the death. Boas are native carriers of the IBD virus, so they can hang on longer once symptoms begin. You would have seen stargazing, anorexia, body contortions, and a loss of strength and coordination before she passed.

An infection could possibly kill her in that time frame, as well as lead to the regurgitation and the intense pain that might prompt her to bite herself.

So I guess my first guess would be an infection, and it sounds like an infection of the ovaducts might be a good guess. But I would still get your other snake checked out.

My condolences. Beautiful snake. I hope your male continues to thrive. With your years of husbandry experience, you would have noticed something, or even had a hunch about a snake you know very well. I'm sure you gave her many years of health and vitality.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 3skulls

How long can you keep them cool before they start to get gross? It would have been days before we could have got her in somewhere.

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You can actually keep them well-preserved in a very cold fridge (not to the point of freezing) for quite a while. Not weeks, but the specimen should still be viable up to a week to 10 days or so. Not the most pleasant thing, but refridgeration won't damage cells like freezing will and the decomposition process is nearly halted for a short time at 35 degrees. Again, I am so sorry for your loss..... :(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by meowmeowkazoo

Parasites would have made her sick, but not killed her so quickly without symptoms. IBD would have manifested with symptoms before the death. Boas are native carriers of the IBD virus, so they can hang on longer once symptoms begin. You would have seen stargazing, anorexia, body contortions, and a loss of strength and coordination before she passed.

An infection could possibly kill her in that time frame, as well as lead to the regurgitation and the intense pain that might prompt her to bite herself.

So I guess my first guess would be an infection, and it sounds like an infection of the ovaducts might be a good guess. But I would still get your other snake checked out.

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I should have got a better pic of the goo that came out of those lumps. To our untrained eyes, it didn't look healthy or like something that should have been there. Plus it was just on/in one of them.

I should have known better to freeze her. It was such a shock and we were running late for work. My first thought was to preserve her because I wouldn't have been able to get her anywhere that week.

We want to thank everyone again for the kind words and the help trying to figure something out.

If nothing else, I hope everyone here can gain some knowledge from her loss. I know I have.

Thanks everyone.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by meowmeowkazoo

Parasites would have made her sick, but not killed her so quickly without symptoms. IBD would have manifested with symptoms before the death. Boas are native carriers of the IBD virus, so they can hang on longer once symptoms begin. You would have seen stargazing, anorexia, body contortions, and a loss of strength and coordination before she passed.

An infection could possibly kill her in that time frame, as well as lead to the regurgitation and the intense pain that might prompt her to bite herself.

So I guess my first guess would be an infection, and it sounds like an infection of the ovaducts might be a good guess. But I would still get your other snake checked out.

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they are increasingly thought of as being carriers or the natural reservoir (two different things) of IBD....they can also be asymptomatic as that is the criteria of being a carrier or reservoir of a pathogen. Therefore there is the chance that no symptoms of IBD would have shown themselves...

Not all parasites manifest with physical/outward symptoms....however more likely than not the necropsy and organs would show signs of parasites directly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OsirisRa32

they are increasingly thought of as being carriers or the natural reservoir (two different things) of IBD....they can also be asymptomatic as that is the criteria of being a carrier or reservoir of a pathogen. Therefore there is the chance that no symptoms of IBD would have shown themselves...

Not all parasites manifest with physical/outward symptoms....however more likely than not the necropsy and organs would show signs of parasites directly.

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I can't think of any parasites that cause death without causing symptoms first, which ones were you thinking of?

And I've also never heard of IBD causing death without causing symptoms first. Boas can be asymptomatic, true, but they always present with symptoms before death.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by meowmeowkazoo

I can't think of any parasites that cause death without causing symptoms first, which ones were you thinking of?

And I've also never heard of IBD causing death without causing symptoms first. Boas can be asymptomatic, true, but they always present with symptoms before death.

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Hmm...I have to check the lit on the symptoms before death...if the snake was previously asymptomatic.

Parasites are tricky...I'm more speaking about human pathogens and parasites... but a few that are known to cause no symptoms in humans are strongyloidosis, many species of whipworms and roundworms, and Entamoeba histolytica...Again sometimes even well known normally symptom triggering pathogens sometimes just don't cause external symptoms for the uncommon individual..human or otherwise. Some symptoms are so broad and general they are considered clinically insignificant...fever for instance.

Sorry for your loss, thanks for sharing the post.