bedding probs

Cleaned out the stinky snake cage i bought from sand to kiln pine... The snake seems to hate it wont go into his hide bur sleeps on top of it this normal?

Hi,

I'm not sure I follow.

What substrate are you using now?

It is fairly normal for them to take time to get used to the idea that a new hide is safe on occasion.

But if you meant you have sand in the tub you need to change it as it will end up with lagoons of snake pee in it and be a real pain to clean.


dr del

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Originally Posted by dr del

Hi,

I'm not sure I follow.

What substrate are you using now?

It is fairly normal for them to take time to get used to the idea that a new hide is safe on occasion.

But if you meant you have sand in the tub you need to change it as it will end up with lagoons of snake pee in it and be a real pain to clean.


dr del

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I bought this neglected under feed snake cage was fyll of sand but wasnt cleaned for 4yrs. Took me 3 hours to clean it get rid of the stench. I put in kiln pine wood but odin seems to hate it doesnt go in his hiding spot but sleeps on top of it to stay off of the new bedding ill post a pic

http://freepichosting.org/image.php?dt=9SZB

He's probably not feeling secure. You're going to need to get him hides that don't have an opening in the back, or cover up the back of the half-log.

Isn't pine toxic to reptiles? Or did I miss something?

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Originally Posted by RoseyReps

Isn't pine toxic to reptiles? Or did I miss something?

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Kiln dried is fine. It burns out the resins

After a quick google search I see that some people say kiln dried is okay. So, I guess that's not it. Personally I wouldn't want to risk it, and I thought this post on iherp summed it up nicely for my point of view

"Although I've been collectiing reptiles probably way before most people on here were born (*cough not old..yet) I don't consider myself an expert with herps but I have been in the furniture industry for a long long time lol. I've had to do many tests on harmful emissions in environmental chambers. To put it simply without getting into technical jib jab Kiln drying is a process used to remove moisture from wood in order for it to be used for structural support with minimal expansion and sometimes used to reduce the moisture in firewood so there is less energy loss when burning it. As Michelle mentions it's the oils that generally emit the toxicities which are harmful. Kiln drying does not remove these oils 100% and only dries any remenents of it which in general could take years if dried naturally. Sorry I couldn't go back and find any data or testing on this because the kiln process focuses mainly on thoroughly removing moisture from wood. That being said in my opinion using it as a substrate under heated and humid conditions like in reptile enclosures just puts the moisture back into the pine and you're back to almost your original state. Arguments may be made against this and there may be some owners who may have never had any problems with kiln dried pine. There are too many variables to come to a definite conclusion if used for reptiles. Also from my experience, as in the way humans have different reactions to substances, different species will also be more sensitive than others to enviromental conditions including any toxicities or harmful emmissions in the air. For me personally as a rule of thumb, when in doubt don't use it. Not worth the risk for my animals."



That being said, the half log hide doesn't do well in the security department as others have said. I would get a small, tight fitting hide that only has one entry/exit point so that odin feels snug as a bug.

Skiploder has posted before that he's kept his snakes on kiln dried pine for years with no adverse effects. :gj:

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Originally Posted by RoseyReps

After a quick google search I see that some people say kiln dried is okay. So, I guess that's not it. Personally I wouldn't want to risk it, and I thought this post on iherp summed it up nicely for my point of view

"Although I've been collectiing reptiles probably way before most people on here were born (*cough not old..yet) I don't consider myself an expert with herps but I have been in the furniture industry for a long long time lol. I've had to do many tests on harmful emissions in environmental chambers. To put it simply without getting into technical jib jab Kiln drying is a process used to remove moisture from wood in order for it to be used for structural support with minimal expansion and sometimes used to reduce the moisture in firewood so there is less energy loss when burning it. As Michelle mentions it's the oils that generally emit the toxicities which are harmful. Kiln drying does not remove these oils 100% and only dries any remenents of it which in general could take years if dried naturally. Sorry I couldn't go back and find any data or testing on this because the kiln process focuses mainly on thoroughly removing moisture from wood. That being said in my opinion using it as a substrate under heated and humid conditions like in reptile enclosures just puts the moisture back into the pine and you're back to almost your original state. Arguments may be made against this and there may be some owners who may have never had any problems with kiln dried pine. There are too many variables to come to a definite conclusion if used for reptiles. Also from my experience, as in the way humans have different reactions to substances, different species will also be more sensitive than others to enviromental conditions including any toxicities or harmful emmissions in the air. For me personally as a rule of thumb, when in doubt don't use it. Not worth the risk for my animals."

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

Skiploder has posted before that he's kept his snakes on kiln dried pine for years with no adverse effects. :gj:

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That's great for Skip :) I will not be using pine, ever, personally. Kiln or not, I just don't see the reward vs risk for it. I trust that Skip has indeed done it for years, and I'm sure he's read a crapton of articles / studies on it. I'm just a worry wart, so Aspen/unprinted newspaper is good for me :D

Well i read about kiln pine and their isnt proof its bad i know a few breeders who use it and snakes are fine. I think its just mumbo jumbo internet crap talk personally my question is since odin isnt use to the bedding and the last owner eused sand from out side is it normal for him not to wanna b on the new bedding and sleep on top of his hide log im sure he will eventually get use to it

He's not using the hide because he's not feeling secure in it. My boyfriend's 700 gram fire started out in too-big hides and he laid on top of the hides until we got him smaller ones. He slithered in right away and was perfectly happy.

I think it's two problems: it's a new type of bedding, and the hide is too big.

When I first switched Ryuu from paper to cypress mulch/coco bark, he seemed to play "the floor is lava" for a few days. I put in strips of paper laying on top, and each day took one piece out. By the end of the week, he was all over the place like he had been before.

The hide is also too big. They like enclosed hides with one opening, and that they can feel touching them on most sides when they curl up. Those half log hides are next to useless in my opinion. You can cut a hole in a little cardboard box and just replace it when it gets dirty.

Ty guys

maybe the plastic emits some toxins the snake doesnt like. And you definitively roughened up that plastic when cleaning it agressively, so that chemicals within the plastic can now come out. I dont want to seem paranoid, but really, none of the plastics we come into contact with and none of what they contain is subject to any review or oversight.

i would say try to replace the whole tub. and provide hiding places that do not share the same floor, hiding places that have a sealed bottom that is clean, maybe put some reptile-approved moist moss or fern inside. Increase the number of hiding places.

Also, some wood- or plant-based substrates can be bad for reptiles, here the ones that contain a lot of scent and oils are the risky ones. Pythons just hate some wood-based substrates, depending on the kind of wood. You will figure it out, but for now, i guess you should just trust your snake and see where it goes, and do your research on possible diseases the snake mght have, or possible issues with materials used in the enclosure.

Best Regards

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Originally Posted by Kurtilein

maybe the plastic emits some toxins the snake doesnt like. And you definitively roughened up that plastic when cleaning it agressively, so that chemicals within the plastic can now come out. I dont want to seem paranoid, but really, none of the plastics we come into contact with and none of what they contain is subject to any review or oversight.

i would say try to replace the whole tub. and provide hiding places that do not share the same floor, hiding places that have a sealed bottom that is clean, maybe put some reptile-approved moist moss or fern inside. Increase the number of hiding places.

Also, some wood- or plant-based substrates can be bad for reptiles, here the ones that contain a lot of scent and oils are the risky ones. Pythons just hate some wood-based substrates, depending on the kind of wood. You will figure it out, but for now, i guess you should just trust your snake and see where it goes, and do your research on possible diseases the snake mght have, or possible issues with materials used in the enclosure.

Best Regards

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First try changing out the hides to something smaller. I don't know many people here who use hides with sealed bottoms either... Mine always burrows down into the substrate to make a nice comfy home.

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Originally Posted by Inarikins

First try changing out the hides to something smaller. I don't know many people here who use hides with sealed bottoms either... Mine always burrows down into the substrate to make a nice comfy home.

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If the snake hates either the substrate or some smell/chemical coming from the tub, guess what.... The python will sit on top of the hide. Ò_ó . Artificial rock hides with a lid, that can be kept clean, and that are closed at the bottom, sometimes they really make sense.

They'll also sit on top of the hide if it's too big or not secure enough. Which that half log is. It's easier to replace the hides first than to replace everything.

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Originally Posted by Kurtilein

If the snake hates either the substrate or some smell/chemical coming from the tub, guess what.... The python will sit on top of the hide. Ò_ó . Artificial rock hides with a lid, that can be kept clean, and that are closed at the bottom, sometimes they really make sense.

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Unless I missed something, the picture shown looks like an aquarium, not a tub.

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Originally Posted by RoseyReps

Unless I missed something, the picture shown looks like an aquarium, not a tub.

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Nope. Definitely a glass tank...

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

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Originally Posted by Inarikins

They'll also sit on top of the hide if it's too big or not secure enough. Which that half log is. It's easier to replace the hides first than to replace everything.

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I replaced everything cuz my house smelled like poop cage wasnt cleaned for years the guy told me i bought it from. I did the shoe box he loves ot now!