phantom vs mojave

Can someone please help me with the difference of these two maybe some side by side comparison pics. All I have seen look similar to me mystics stick out to me though lol

Mystics and Phantoms are the same thing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jinx667

Mystics and Phantoms are the same thing.

---

So they're like lesser/butters?

I'm reading that they're different lines? :/

They are pretty much like Lesser/Butter IMO.

Mystic Potion = Purple Passion

So, if you can tell a Mystic from a Mojave, you should be able to tell a Phantom from a Mojave as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jinx667

They are pretty much like Lesser/Butter IMO.

Mystic Potion = Purple Passion

So, if you can tell a Mystic from a Mojave, you should be able to tell a Phantom from a Mojave as well.

---

I have to disagree, mystics are easier to spot a phantom to me looks like a bland Mojave. Side by side pics would be appreciated

You have not seen very good Phantoms then. They are 2 lines of the same morph. I only have a Pastel Phantom, so I do not have other pics to pull up. Maybe someone else here does.

No. Jinx is right. Phantom = mystic
They look the same and have the same form when combined with Mojave, which looks totally different imo....

Mojaves have more yellow contrast and have green tint imo. Phantoms are more brown toned.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

My first post on this forum :)

About phantom and mystic being the same gene with just 2 different names... I think its possible, especially when considering super forms and combinations with other genes.

In the big morph list http://www.worldofballpythons.com/morphs , if you look at super mystic, super phantom, these two look very similar. And phantom mystic also looks very similar. Combinations with butter or mojave already prove that both mystic and phantom are on the same chromosome / locus.

If phantom and mystic would really be 2 different genes, i think the super-forms and the phantom mystic should reveal it. But in my eyes, they dont.

For something different that also appears to be on the same locus, try mahogany. The super form is a paternless black like a super cinny or super black pastel. With the important difference that its on the same chromosome/locus as butter, mojave, special, russo, phantom/mystic, so you can get awesome stuff. like the black potion, the mahogany mojave, which looks like a really REALLY dark mystic potion. For just a simple 2-gene combination, mahogany mojave is really dramatic. Mahogany is unfortunately very rare and i have no clue where to get that morph. I guess in comparison to cinnamon or black pastell, mahogany, while being similar on its own, just wont interact as well with pastell.

whats also curious about mahogany mojave is that super mojave = blue eye lucy white snake, while super mahogany = super cinny-like black snake. And the combination: black-yellow-light grey.

Best regards, and if anything i write about genetics is wrong, please point it out, i want to learn from mistakes if i make any.

Not my picture, but can you tell mystic or phantom with the mojave(right)?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v9...ps068ccb79.jpg

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

I guess my point is not that it is always easy to differentiate a Phantom from a Mystic in a clutch, but more that there is not a difference between a Phantom and a Mystic. BOTH can be hard to tell from a clutch of hatchlings.

The OP said it was easy to differentiate a Mystic, but not a Phantom. I disagree with that since they are the same thing.

OK so do you see phantom/mystic or Mojave with this snake
http://i1049.photobucket.com/albums/...psc2f6f749.jpg

I see mojo with that one.

Quality pictures can make a huge difference between recognizing a Mojave from a mystic or phantom.

I will go with Mojave on that one.

Mojave have a green hue that mystic nor phantom have.

i am not sure, and if i would be a breeder I would rush for combinations with this snake in the blue-eye-leucystic gene complex to prove it out. Breed to mojave and see if you hit mystic potions (awesome) or grey-head blue eye lucys (super mojaves, awesome). But i still say this python has something going on in this gene complex. Best Regards

Phantom Het Ghost Female.http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/...97FE3254BE.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kurtilein

My first post on this forum :)

About phantom and mystic being the same gene with just 2 different names... I think its possible, especially when considering super forms and combinations with other genes.

In the big morph list http://www.worldofballpythons.com/morphs , if you look at super mystic, super phantom, these two look very similar. And phantom mystic also looks very similar. Combinations with butter or mojave already prove that both mystic and phantom are on the same chromosome / locus.

If phantom and mystic would really be 2 different genes, i think the super-forms and the phantom mystic should reveal it. But in my eyes, they dont.

For something different that also appears to be on the same locus, try mahogany. The super form is a paternless black like a super cinny or super black pastel. With the important difference that its on the same chromosome/locus as butter, mojave, special, russo, phantom/mystic, so you can get awesome stuff. like the black potion, the mahogany mojave, which looks like a really REALLY dark mystic potion. For just a simple 2-gene combination, mahogany mojave is really dramatic. Mahogany is unfortunately very rare and i have no clue where to get that morph. I guess in comparison to cinnamon or black pastell, mahogany, while being similar on its own, just wont interact as well with pastell.

whats also curious about mahogany mojave is that super mojave = blue eye lucy white snake, while super mahogany = super cinny-like black snake. And the combination: black-yellow-light grey.

Best regards, and if anything i write about genetics is wrong, please point it out, i want to learn from mistakes if i make any.

---

I'm interested to see where you read this? I was under the impression the mahogany was on the same locus as black pastels/cinni's, not the BEL locus. Has it been proven that the mahogany Mojave cannot reproduce itself? You're across the pond, correct? I know a few people working with the mahogany gene in the states, but sad to say I'm not familiar with many breeders over there :( sorry!


Edit: I *assumed* the mahogany was on the black pastel/cinni locus. According to wobp it is not, but I am not sure if it has been proven so or just unlisted thus far.

i admit im basically just throwing this out there for you to shred apart, and its based on just my own online research ^^ . But then, the black potion exists. My only gamble is that i say, for example, that super mahogany (suma) bred to mojave will produce 50% black potion and 50% mahogany.

Thats how you test hypotheses: you make a prediction, and then you succeed or have egg on your face. I think im right.

Best Regards :)

I'd also be interested to hear what has been proven with Mahogany. I was kind of wondering if it might be related to chocolate purely by looks but hadn't heard of any breedings to test any possible relations (but that's not surprising as I had only recently heard of Mahogany).

its not really known and not really proven out. And im really noone, im just learning ball python genetics before i get my first ball python, i just noticed this and then i searched the internet for possible combinations. And i noticed two things, firstly that mahogany single-gene ball pythons really tend to look like the noble wood they are named after, and secondly that it just goes crazy combined with any other gene from the blue eye leucystic gene complex.

the other more common darkening genes do this with pastell. and make the pewters. Not this one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kurtilein

i admit im basically just throwing this out there for you to shred apart, and its based on just my own online research ^^ . But then, the black potion exists. My only gamble is that i say, for example, that super mahogany (suma) bred to mojave will produce 50% black potion and 50% mahogany.

Thats how you test hypotheses: you make a prediction, and then you succeed or have egg on your face. I think im right.

Best Regards :)

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kurtilein

its not really known and not really proven out. And im really noone, im just learning ball python genetics before i get my first ball python, i just noticed this and then i searched the internet for possible combinations. And i noticed two things, firstly that mahogany single-gene ball pythons really tend to look like the noble wood they are named after, and secondly that it just goes crazy combined with any other gene from the blue eye leucystic gene complex.

the other more common darkening genes do this with pastell. and make the pewters. Not this one.

---

No worries! I think having speculations is what keeps the bp going strong. My only issue was that it seemed like you were stating it as a fact, rather than speculation.

You seem to have a good base for your hypothesis, so you never know. But I might suggest you mention that it is infact, your opinion, rather than proven genetically.

If you breed a black potion to a normal and it cannot reproduce itself (think vanilla cream) then you have an allelic mutation. (I think I used that term correctly)

Anyways, I was not trying to rag on you or anything, just thought you had new information I hadn't seen yet. Wouldn't be the first time :)

I did find a post that copper and cinnamon have been proven not to be alleles by a breeder in Germany but I can't seem to find the link again. In this link it's implied in that apparently a cinnamon copper X lavender produced a cinnamon copper:

http://www.reptileradio.net/reptiler...-The-dark-side

There is some indication that copper and mahogany might be the same.

I'm hoping for eggs from this Garcia line chocolate cinnamon mojave girl this year and expect that none of those three will be alleles. Breeding her to a super chocolate male so guess any just chocolate babies would prove no alleles.

http://snakemorphs.com/images/201204...onmojave02.jpg