phantom vs mojave

[Royal Hijinx]

I guess my point is not that it is always easy to differentiate a Phantom from a Mystic in a clutch, but more that there is not a difference between a Phantom and a Mystic. BOTH can be hard to tell from a clutch of hatchlings.

The OP said it was easy to differentiate a Mystic, but not a Phantom. I disagree with that since they are the same thing.

[Anthony Renna]

OK so do you see phantom/mystic or Mojave with this snake

[ClarkT]

I see mojo with that one.

[Stewart_Reptiles]

Quality pictures can make a huge difference between recognizing a Mojave from a mystic or phantom.

I will go with Mojave on that one.

Mojave have a green hue that mystic nor phantom have.

[Pythonfriend]

i am not sure, and if i would be a breeder I would rush for combinations with this snake in the blue-eye-leucystic gene complex to prove it out. Breed to mojave and see if you hit mystic potions (awesome) or grey-head blue eye lucys (super mojaves, awesome). But i still say this python has something going on in this gene complex. Best Regards

[Tom Pecanic]

Phantom Het Ghost Female.

[RoseyReps]

My first post on this forum

About phantom and mystic being the same gene with just 2 different names... I think its possible, especially when considering super forms and combinations with other genes.

In the big morph list http://www.worldofballpythons.com/morphs , if you look at super mystic, super phantom, these two look very similar. And phantom mystic also looks very similar. Combinations with butter or mojave already prove that both mystic and phantom are on the same chromosome / locus.

If phantom and mystic would really be 2 different genes, i think the super-forms and the phantom mystic should reveal it. But in my eyes, they dont.

For something different that also appears to be on the same locus, try mahogany. The super form is a paternless black like a super cinny or super black pastel. With the important difference that its on the same chromosome/locus as butter, mojave, special, russo, phantom/mystic, so you can get awesome stuff. like the black potion, the mahogany mojave, which looks like a really REALLY dark mystic potion. For just a simple 2-gene combination, mahogany mojave is really dramatic. Mahogany is unfortunately very rare and i have no clue where to get that morph. I guess in comparison to cinnamon or black pastell, mahogany, while being similar on its own, just wont interact as well with pastell.

whats also curious about mahogany mojave is that super mojave = blue eye lucy white snake, while super mahogany = super cinny-like black snake. And the combination: black-yellow-light grey.

Best regards, and if anything i write about genetics is wrong, please point it out, i want to learn from mistakes if i make any.

I'm interested to see where you read this? I was under the impression the mahogany was on the same locus as black pastels/cinni's, not the BEL locus. Has it been proven that the mahogany Mojave cannot reproduce itself? You're across the pond, correct? I know a few people working with the mahogany gene in the states, but sad to say I'm not familiar with many breeders over there sorry!


Edit: I *assumed* the mahogany was on the black pastel/cinni locus. According to wobp it is not, but I am not sure if it has been proven so or just unlisted thus far.

[Pythonfriend]

i admit im basically just throwing this out there for you to shred apart, and its based on just my own online research ^^ . But then, the black potion exists. My only gamble is that i say, for example, that super mahogany (suma) bred to mojave will produce 50% black potion and 50% mahogany.

Thats how you test hypotheses: you make a prediction, and then you succeed or have egg on your face. I think im right.

Best Regards

[RandyRemington]

I'd also be interested to hear what has been proven with Mahogany. I was kind of wondering if it might be related to chocolate purely by looks but hadn't heard of any breedings to test any possible relations (but that's not surprising as I had only recently heard of Mahogany).

[Pythonfriend]

its not really known and not really proven out. And im really noone, im just learning ball python genetics before i get my first ball python, i just noticed this and then i searched the internet for possible combinations. And i noticed two things, firstly that mahogany single-gene ball pythons really tend to look like the noble wood they are named after, and secondly that it just goes crazy combined with any other gene from the blue eye leucystic gene complex.

the other more common darkening genes do this with pastell. and make the pewters. Not this one.