Incubator tub humidity?

I have had my incubator running for a few months now and all is just fine operationally with my Herpstat 1 and a remote temp indicator on a higher shelf.

I just figured I would check the Vermiculite/Perlite mixture yesterday. It had dried up a touch, but there was still slight condendsation on the tub walls... Stelite 6qt tubs w/ snap on lids- not locking lids. I decided to "juice up" the mixture till there was ~1/4" of free water on the bottom of the tubs. I put a cheapie Hygrometer in one tub on the top shelf and one tub on the bottom shelf. They are both currently showing 88-90% humidity. The fan is on a rheostat and currently running at ~1/2 speed.

Is this humidity high enough?? Should I use press-n-seal??

Pics for reference (before I added water yesterday):

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/h...-24-51_251.jpg

A nice steady 88.5F by the Herpstat w/ second remote monitor one shelf higher than the Herpstat sensor indicating within 0.5F and showing incubator (not tub) humidity:

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/h...-00-14_483.jpg

Looks good to me. Honestly I think we all tend to over think some of this stuff. They hatch in the wild under much worse conditions. I know we want everything to be as perfect as we can get them but where do we draw the line? Not trying to pick on you please don't take that the wrong way. Just kind of thinking out loud.

I forget which breeding guide but I like how they put it.

It was something to the effect of: "People tend to spend way too much time and energy fretting over the perfection of the incubation process. In reality, they will hatch anywhere but the glove box of your car."

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Originally Posted by H.o.F.R

Looks good to me. Honestly I think we all tend to over think some of this stuff. They hatch in the wild under much worse conditions. I know we want everything to be as perfect as we can get them but where do we draw the line? Not trying to pick on you please don't take that the wrong way. Just kind of thinking out loud.

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No offense taken at all. I was kinda thinking the same thing, but didn't know if there was an ideal range where any fallout would be minimized due to humidity related issues.

The egg crate needs to sit up on top of the substrate, you do not want any substrate touching the eggs :)

Personal opinion ...Those tubs are great for holding nuts and bolts and for hatchling racks but are horrible for holding in humidity without seal a meal, which is why I use locking lid tubs(I hate seal-a-meal).

As far as the substrate under the egg crate it should be sloppy wet, I add perlite and then water until it touches the bottom of the egg crate and that's it.

My tubs are sealed well enough to need a few tiny holes for ventilation and will hold water from start to finish without having to mess with the tubs. On rare occasion I've added a little water to top them off towards the end of the incubation period, but not much.

If you use those cheap tubs keep an eye on the water level and keep the substrate very wet.
I would also add a lot more water bottles, they help tremendously with stability.

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Looks good to me. Honestly I think we all tend to over think some of this stuff. They hatch in the wild under much worse conditions.

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They hatch in holes under ground that are probably as stable if not more stable than most peoples incubators ;)

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I forget which breeding guide but I like how they put it.

It was something to the effect of: "People tend to spend way too much time and energy fretting over the perfection of the incubation process. In reality, they will hatch anywhere but the glove box of your car."

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When you have 20k in eggs in your incubator you tend to want it to work perfect ;)

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Originally Posted by MrLang

I forget which breeding guide but I like how they put it.

It was something to the effect of: "People tend to spend way too much time and energy fretting over the perfection of the incubation process. In reality, they will hatch anywhere but the glove box of your car."

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Lol yea pretty sure that's in the breeding bp guide on vms herps the learning channel.

Op: I use straight vermiculite mixed 50/50 with water by weight. I have a converted refridgerator incubator. I use a hydro farm tstat set at 90 degrees with the probe on the middle shelf burried in vermiculite. The tubs I use have screen lids and I place the eggs directly on the vermiculite. 3 feet of 11" flexwatt running down the back, 1 CPU fan mounted on the top blowing straight down about 1/4 speed on a dimmer, I fill the crisper drawer with water and open it once a week for air exchange. Nothing fancy but it works. Keeps right about 88-89 degrees and 80-85% humidity. I rarely see fluxuations unless I just had it open. I've used this for the past 2 seasons and had 16 viable clutches hatch with only 1 egg failing to incubate. I don't think I can blame the bator for that as the hatchling was severely deformed.

Jerry,

After I topped off the tubs with water the vermiculite/perlite mixture sank back below the grates- as it was when I set it up. Must have expanded as it dried out a little.

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

Personal opinion ...Those tubs are great for holding nuts and bolts and for hatchling racks but are horrible for holding in humidity without seal a meal, which is why I use locking lid tubs(I hate seal-a-meal).

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I have used those tubs two years in a row and have had zero humidity issues using no press and seal. I even have some other tubs that are sealed even worse but stack much nicer in my cooler. I use the egg crate but do not soak my vermiculite. I set it up just like you would if the eggs were in the substrate. I have never had to add water or mess with the substrate during incubation.

Guess it is all personal preference and what has worked well for each person.

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Originally Posted by joebad976

I have used those tubs two years in a row and have had zero humidity issues using no press and seal. I even have some other tubs that are sealed even worse but stack much nicer in my cooler. I use the egg crate but do not soak my vermiculite. I set it up just like you would if the eggs were in the substrate. I have never had to add water or mess with the substrate during incubation.

Guess it is all personal preference and what has worked well for each person.

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Maybe because you stack them they seal better?
In my experience using them 1 season they leaked a lot, but then I didn't stack them either, so who knows :confusd:

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

Maybe because you stack them they seal better?
In my experience using them 1 season they leaked a lot, but then I didn't stack them either, so who knows :confusd:

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LOL, it is all trial and error. Nothing in this hobby is by the book and no two breeders do things the same way. That's what makes this soooo fun.

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

The egg crate needs to sit up on top of the substrate, you do not want any substrate touching the eggs :)

Personal opinion ...Those tubs are great for holding nuts and bolts and for hatchling racks but are horrible for holding in humidity without seal a meal, which is why I use locking lid tubs(I hate seal-a-meal).

As far as the substrate under the egg crate it should be sloppy wet, I add perlite and then water until it touches the bottom of the egg crate and that's it.

My tubs are sealed well enough to need a few tiny holes for ventilation and will hold water from start to finish without having to mess with the tubs. On rare occasion I've added a little water to top them off towards the end of the incubation period, but not much.

If you use those cheap tubs keep an eye on the water level and keep the substrate very wet.
I would also add a lot more water bottles, they help tremendously with stability.

They hatch in holes under ground that are probably as stable if not more stable than most peoples incubators ;)

When you have 20k in eggs in your incubator you tend to want it to work perfect ;)

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What tubs do you use and can you show some pics of your tub setup and incubator?

thanks

Lance

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

The egg crate needs to sit up on top of the substrate, you do not want any substrate touching the eggs :)

When you have 20k in eggs in your incubator you tend to want it to work perfect ;)

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Have to ask : Been involved in BPs for only 2 years, but there seems to be a total change in egg tub prep. Used to be that it was highly recommended to place the eggs positioned as exactly as possible to how they were removed from the breeding tub and placed directly into the hatch rite, vermiculite, etc. and even to the point of putting them up to 25% "buried" in the substrate. Then.... introduced is the light diffuser crate and the variations of how to incorporate it into the tub set up.

Am I correct in thinking that the sole purpose of the wet substrate mix is only to provide and maintain as perfect a humidity level as possible and the light diffuser keeps the eggs away from direct contact with the substrate in order to avoid possible excess exposure to
moisture ( molding) ?

If that is the case.... do we only invest in hatch-rite vs. vermiculite because it holds humidity better or some other property ?

After watching a few video's from Mike Wilbank's, I'm much less concerned about how I'm prepping by tubs. Kinda hard to argue with his methodology.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HK10L...mw&index=9

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Originally Posted by gilly

Have to ask : Been involved in BPs for only 2 years, but there seems to be a total change in egg tub prep. Used to be that it was highly recommended to place the eggs positioned as exactly as possible to how they were removed from the breeding tub and placed directly into the hatch rite, vermiculite, etc. and even to the point of putting them up to 25% "buried" in the substrate. Then.... introduced is the light diffuser crate and the variations of how to incorporate it into the tub set up.

Am I correct in thinking that the sole purpose of the wet substrate mix is only to provide and maintain as perfect a humidity level as possible and the light diffuser keeps the eggs away from direct contact with the substrate in order to avoid possible excess exposure to
moisture ( molding) ?

If that is the case.... do we only invest in hatch-rite vs. vermiculite because it holds humidity better or some other property ?

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Yes the substrates sole purpose is to provide humidity, nothing more.
It has changed things a lot by made things easier for noobies to pick up the incubation process.

I use perlite under the egg crate because it holds water, it's what it does best.
Hatchrite works "ok" if your prepared to add water to it at some point, something I rarely have to do with perlite.

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Originally Posted by coreydelong

After watching a few video's from Mike Wilbank's, I'm much less concerned about how I'm prepping by tubs. Kinda hard to argue with his methodology.

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Old school incubation methods work, but I've seen more noobies mess it up with that technique than doing it the substrateless way, which is why it's so popular these days.

There's a lot of different ways to set up an incubation tub and you'll find that once people figure out a method that works they have a difficult time changing.

I used non-locking Iris shoebox tubs with vermiculite/water and light diffusers. I put on press and seal and put them in the incubator. I did not touch them again until day 50 - no air holes or lifting the edge of the wrap during that whole time. On day 50 I took out the tubs and opened the plastic. Did that every two days until they pipped. Every single egg was pefect.

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Originally Posted by lance

What tubs do you use and can you show some pics of your tub setup and incubator?

thanks

Lance

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This is my small incubator ...
http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/a...s/PICT1118.jpg

The heat tape is hidden behind the false wall in the back.
The fan on the bottom pulls air from the main area in the inc and pushes it up and across the heat tape behind the wall and the air escapes out the top hole.
The t-stat probe is up top going though the screen and into the back of the false wal and hangs by the heat tape.
I only incubated a few clutches in this inc this last season and it performed great except when my thermometer failed me and I incubated at a low temp costing me a clutch :(

I use 7qt sterilite locking lid tubs, they are no longer made but the newer 6 qt purple handled ones look like they'll work great.
1 1/2 to 2 inches of perlite, 2 pieces of egg crate(hard to see the bottom piece as it sunk in a bit), add water until it touches the bottom of the egg crates and that's it.
No measuring perlite or water amount, no worrying about being too moist or too dry, it just plain works.

We did this same false wall on our larger inc too and it performed excellent all season.
This is from 2011 before we altered the back and we were testing out different substrates and making sure the air flow was good ... These locking lid tubs work fantastic imo

http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/a...s/PICT5484.jpg