Live vs. Frozen Food.

I recently switched all my ball pythons to live food. I have a very small freezer that's allotted for rodents (the top half of a 2-door mini fridge) so when I acquired my big normal who eats medium rats, I knew I would have an issue with space. With 10 snakes to feed with prey sizing ranging form pinky mice (for my baby corns) to medium rats, I knew I would not have space in my freezer for all sizes of prey items. My solution: feed the ball pythons live.

Has anyone noticed that their ball pythons grow more rapidly on live food? My juveniles (400-550g) eat one weaned rat a week and my big girl (2000g) eats a medium rat once a week. Since starting to feed them live, I've noticed their weights jump up tremendously. My problem feeder (my spider girl) wouldn't eat frozen so I switched her to rats. After hovering around 200g for a month feeding frozen, I switched her to live (same size prey) and she gained nearly 100g in 4 weeks. Is this just something strange with my lot or are other people noticing this too?

My only logical explanation is that some of the nutrients are lost in the freezing/rethawing process (like with some human foods) and by feeding live, they are regaining those nutrients. This is just a theory and could very well be wrong. Thoughts?

There's no scientific data (none that I'm aware of) that says there's a loss of nutrients. Maybe the place you bought frozen rats weren't fed as well as the live rats you're feeding now. My snake is growing fantastically on frozen foods but the rats I feed are fed organic foods, fresh grains ect.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2

It could be a difference in the size prey items they are able to eat. With live rodents, you're often able to get slightly larger prey items for the same price, or there is more variability in size of prey items period because they are not euthanized when they reach a specific gram weight. So as a result, you may be unintentionally feeding slightly larger prey items, which is resulting in a growth spurt. :)

That's what I noticed anyway with frozen vs. live for me - our frozens are all nice and uniform, while the live can and often are slightly larger than the similarly labeled frozen.

Otherwise, there *should* be no noticeable difference in nutritional value between live or frozen rodents.

-Jen

I weigh all my prey items every time I feed them, so I know they are around the same size. I recently switched two to a larger prey item (they went from pups about every 3-4 days to weaned rats once a week), but my male went from 450g to 550g in about 3 weeks since I've started feeding him live and the prey size hasn't changed. All (both the frozen and live) have been between 40-50g each.

What's strange is that I get my frozen feeders from an online supplier who supposedly feeds them high-quality lab blocks. My live feeders come from a local pet shop where they are fed dog-food (which is not that great). My leftovers get fed a balanced diet when they are here with me, but I have no control over what they are fed at the pet store.

I'm just stumped. However, I'm not complaining that my babies are finally putting on weight. I'm glad they are eating and growing.

also to note...I'm paying an arm and a leg for live feeders. Where I can get a frozen medium rat for $1.50 online...I'm paying $7 for one live. I just don't have the freezer space for frozen feeders, unfortunately.

I have feed both frozen and live, currently feeding all my BP's live due to convenience. I have not fed enough F/T to notice a difference in the growth rate in live vs. frozen. My thoughts on frozen is that there is some nutritional breakdown in the "meat" during freezing process though I do not think it is significant enough to effect the growth rate in your snake. However what I believe that along with killing bad bacteria in the freezing process it also kills any good fauna in the feeder that would otherwise be past on to the snake if it had been alive, which would benifit the snake with digestion and obsorbtion of nutrients and such and so forth. just a thought.

My second thought is the nutrition the feeders nutrition from the petshop you go to for live and what the frozen place feeds them. perhaps the dog food they are feeding or they are feeding something else that is otherwise giving them some kind of nutritional boost, or maybe they just hit a growth spurt?:D.

Hmmmm, I smell an experiment coming for my next clutch now that I have an empty freezer in the garage.

How is dog food bad for rats? It supplies a lot of protein and not so high end dog foods have a lot of grains. Many rat and mouse breeders supplement lab blocks with dog food and a variety of seeds for an optimal diet.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by barbie.dragon

How is dog food bad for rats? It supplies a lot of protein and not so high end dog foods have a lot of grains. Many rat and mouse breeders supplement lab blocks with dog food and a variety of seeds for an optimal diet.

---

This is like cheap dog food that's not even nutritionally sound for dogs. I can't remember where I heard it...but someone on here said dog food wasn't good for rats.

The rats I have in my closet have a mix of lab blocks and seeds.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BHReptiles

This is like cheap dog food that's not even nutritionally sound for dogs. I can't remember where I heard it...but someone on here said dog food wasn't good for rats.

The rats I have in my closet have a mix of lab blocks and seeds.

---

Interesting. Usually low quality dog food is a great supplement due to the high grain content.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2

As long as the dog food is not high in "Meaty" protien more on the grain side(no alfalfa) is not toobad for rats, I have heard a decent quality "senior" dog food is ideal.

I use perdigree large breed and purina lab blocks for all my rats.
I tried to switch to f/t but it was such a pain and when I hit 20 snakes it drove me crazy so all of mine get live.

I'll have to go try and find it, but something about the red dye that's in dog food I believe is why they say its not good. Is it possible that your snakes are eating better on live? As in more regularly? If they are consistently eating, that will help them to put weight on.

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

On craigslist you can buy a mini fridge for 50 bucks tops. If you turn it all the way cool it usually freezes throughout.

$7.00 - $1.50 = $5.50 more per feeding per animal

Your sig says you have 4 ball pythons. 5.50 x 4 is 22 bucks per feeding. You could probably find a fridge for that much and your snakes would be safe from getting mauled. Every subsequent feeding you can think of it as saving/earning over 20 dollars. I'm confused why you haven't done that math yourself yet, combined the numbers with the knowledge of the dangers of feeding live, and made the obvious choice.

Are you THAT limited on space?

You can get a small chest freezer for around $150 or so new. Takes very little space or electricity to run and will hold a lot of feeders. Had to do this at my house due to the wife having issues with frozen rodents in the people food freezer.:weirdface

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MrLang

On craigslist you can buy a mini fridge for 50 bucks tops. If you turn it all the way cool it usually freezes throughout.

$7.00 - $1.50 = $5.50 more per feeding per animal

Your sig says you have 4 ball pythons. 5.50 x 4 is 22 bucks per feeding. You could probably find a fridge for that much and your snakes would be safe from getting mauled. Every subsequent feeding you can think of it as saving/earning over 20 dollars. I'm confused why you haven't done that math yourself yet, combined the numbers with the knowledge of the dangers of feeding live, and made the obvious choice.

Are you THAT limited on space?

---

Right now, I'm currently spending about $20 a week on feeders. It's not that I can't afford this, because I can (otherwise I would not own 10 snakes), but it's because I do not have room in my small freezer that I have in my bedroom for frozen feeders.

My living arrangements are pretty much non-negociable. I live with people who dislike my snakes greatly. If I was to be allowed to keep my snakes, all of my snakes and their supplies, feeders, etc. had to be kept inside my bedroom and out of any "public" area. Because I'm also a college student, my room is filled with things I need for school as well as your traditional bedroom furniture. My room is not that big and there is no additional wall space to have another freezer. Already, all my free space is taken up by racks, one minifridge/freezer and an incubator.

I have done the math and ideally, I would much rather breed my own food and gas them before feeding than purchase my rodents online or from a feed store. This way I can monitor my rodent's diet and I know exactly what my snakes are eating. I also don't have to worry about them being live when I feed them (however...I do have one corn snake and one ball python that won't eat frozen or pre-killed). I also don't condone bashing the rats over the head, so I won't ask the feed store to kill them for me (I personally find it cruel). However, even though I might want to do this, it does not meal it's a practical option for me at the moment.

I will not have my own house for at least another 18 months so I have to make do with what I have. And what I have is no more space for freezers or rodent racks.

Now, this thread has deviated from it's original intent so there's really no need to continue. I simply noticed that my ball pythons grow more when eating live food. I keep very detailed records of my BPs weights and the weights of their prey items and I have run my own mini experiment. It's just a correlation I noticed and I only wanted to know if other people observed the same.