Oil heater=crazy power bill!

Guys I can't believe this hardly. Use to seeing my power bill in the 100-140 range! But my room drops to around 70 ambient wise and obviously too cold for my snakies. So I've been using an oil heater, not sure it's age, to keep it in the low 80s. Just got my power ill and it's almost 300$ now!!! I need advice and help. Obviously I'm going to have to eat this power and like it but I need help figuring something out for in the future! Thanks in advance!

You might have to switch to a type of cage that isn't dependent on room temps. I really like by PVC enclosures from Animal Plastics because They can be easily maintained even when the room temperature drops below 70 degrees.

Heating a 4 x 2 x 1 foot cage takes a lot less power than heating an entire room.

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...t/c22733cf.jpg

Well see I am using a RBI PVC enclosure now and my temps can still dip to 71 without the heater on which worries me lol. Sorry I don't have a picture of my enclosure atm. Maybe I should check with my temp gun in case my accurate is faulty

Any suggestions on a way to just heat the ambient of my RBI dual cage and not the room

Idk how great this works, but someone just posted this and claimed it works great. It also uses less than half the power an oil heater uses.

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...er-Alternative

You can use fluorescent lights if you only need to increase the air temperature a few degrees, or if you need to increase the air temps a little more the combination of a fluorescent tube and a radiant heat panel (which doesn't directly increase the air temperature inside the cage but will increase the air temperature a few degrees) can boost the air temps 5-10 degrees. There is no reason to heat a whole room for plastic reptile cages. Worst case you can cut a hole in the top and screen it off and use a heat lamp/CHE.

Heat lamps are good but they kill humidity fast. You should get those energy efficient heaters. They do quite well. They look like a fan but they're not. I used to use waters like this in Asia and they worked quite well Irish the winter and it gets very cold in South Korea. I use this now in my room (I'm in California) and it works nicely. Also insulate your room! Put the weird door sleeve to fill the crack underneath it helps a lot. And you can always try insulating the cage by putting a blanket over ir
Like this: http://reviews.costco.com/2070/11333...tm?sort=rating

A few possibilities:

-Electric space heater for just the snake room.

-Insulate the enclosures. Foam board, put a piece of plexiglass on part of the screen top(although this may be more for humidity), etc.

-Use a CHE or heat lamp. For my ball, I use a 40w infrared in the cold months to keep the ambient/cool side temps at 78-82.

Guys there is absolutely no reason to heat an entire room when using these types of enclosures. The amount of power it takes to heat a plastic cage is so much less than it is to heat even the most insulated room with an efficient heater.

A radiant heat panel and fluorescent tube mounted inside the cage is the best option by far.

This is my first year with my new snake room and my bill went up :(
It's not even cold yet.
I also added a deep freezer.

I insulated the walls I built, under the floor in the crawl space, the door into the room.

A few things that can help. Have a humidifier in the room and have a small fan to circulate the air. Oil filled heaters set on high pull 1500w

I'm thinking snakes are just a cool way to drain your bank account :)

Plastic the windows

I don't heat my snake room for the same reasons cost of power. I have fl lights inside my enclosures and LED over night. I often run in the winter the LED string 24/7 and the FL 12 on and 12 off. This with insulation give me 10-15º over the ambient temps. You might get a few more degrees from a RHP I'd try the FL lights first as they are cheap. It is a real issue I had a higher power bill that you currently have the steps I have taken dropped it from 400-500$ an month back to 60-75 a month.

Ok I am contemplating all ideas, the fluorescent led mix seems seems the most cost effective at this time. XMAS and all ;). Any suggestions on where to find the correct fluorescent and how to mount them. I'm techy so I could wire the LEDs myself or is their a pre made you'd suggest? I'll probably wire them into a double switch now for easy cut off on the back or top

I've been running a heater in my snake room for over 2 years. My electric bills average about $100-$140. My electric bills do almost double in Dec- Feb and Jul- Sep, but not because of increased usage, but because of peak season pricing by the electric company...

Sent from my Motorola ATRIX using Tapatalk 2.

Also will fluorescents inside the enclosure be dangerous for my snakes?

Really?! Do they seriously do that?

Well, I should add that really dent have anything running downstairs before I moved the snakes down there.
I never heat the house.

With the fans, heater, racks and cages. My bill went up about $60-70 a month

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Originally Posted by joefer13

Also will fluorescents inside the enclosure be dangerous for my snakes?

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as long as the tube is behind a plastic light diffuser and they can't get into direct contact with the tube they are completely safe.

Like so:

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...s/IMG_0372.jpg

Yes unless they could contact the metal ends or lay in contact with it. They do not get as hot as rhp and they are felt to be Safe by some. Some others recommend caving them however in terrestrial set ups due to the high temps they run at. Higher than many uths often.


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Ok cool, so anyone have a link or suggestions of store to where I can start shopping/brain storming how to set this up?

Are you sure it's the oil heater? Is it an old oil heater? A big room?

My snake room is a 12 x 12 foot room in the basement. Two of the four walls are the foundation cinder blocks-no insulation and it has two windows that are garbage. I plan to insulate the windows this winter, but my bill only goes up about $30 a month from running my oil heater almost non-stop. I have it on a thermostat set to 75.

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Originally Posted by SlitherinSisters

Are you sure it's the oil heater? Is it an old oil heater? A big room?

My snake room is a 12 x 12 foot room in the basement. Two of the four walls are the foundation cinder blocks-no insulation and it has two windows that are garbage. I plan to insulate the windows this winter, but my bill only goes up about $30 a month from running my oil heater almost non-stop. I have it on a thermostat set to 75.

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Thank god. It's my first month in my new place and I was seriously freaking out reading this thread as I haven't received my first electric bill.

I'm using one of those dinky electric fan powered space heaters. It runs probably 25% of the time. I think the watts were only 400 or so, so I'm hoping it's not too bad.

Not for certain it's the oil heater yet, it is at least 10 years old. It was given to me so unsure exactly. It's been a mix of med min and max usage with it. But I am having a hard time thinking of anything else it could ne

I'm with Stephanie on this one - my oil heater maybe increases my electricity bill $30/month in the winter ($40/mo cheaper than the blower-style). Have you sealed the vents, doors and windows in that room? If you are letting your regular central heat blow into your room, then the two temps are competing with each other (central heat would drive your ambients down, making the heater work harder). Block any vents entirely, and seal any other cracks you can find that would allow air from the rest of the house or the outdoors into the snake room (as-seen-on-tv twin draft guards are great for internal doors).

ADD: My snake room stays 79-80deg in the winter with my heater.

Have an oil furnace that keeps house above 60, quartz Heater with blower in kitchen keeps house warmer. Up too 1000 feet it says. Insulation is poor and windows single pane. House typically 65-70

I have a huge increase as well it all depends on the ambient temps and quality of insulation. I have seaweed in the walls and heating the room to 80º on a cold winter day (-27 outside -16ºF) a 2400w (delonghi) oil heater could not do the best was 76º. It ran maxed out most of the time and tripled the power bill.

Suggesting I am lying does not sit well. I never even in the early spring had only a 30$ increase with the oil heater but then again I live where it gets cold. I track my power usage very closely as I run a business out of my home and need to keep accurate business records so this is an increase in usage of power over a 5 year average before the snakes arrived and adjusted to local rates.

The power consumption calculator in my area says running a 2400w heater (like mine) maxed (also Like mine) costs 231$ a month. Running at 240w (10% power) is 24$ a month if you live where I am.

http://www.nspower.ca/en/home/energy...alculator.aspx

Hehe Nova Scotia... I think we found the discrepancy

Clearly rates are different and areas are different and suggesting that a given dollar amount must be wrong with no thought to anything else is assuming too much.

If your worried about the electric bill, don't use lights for heat unless lightning is needed, you are wasting a lot of power producing light instead of heat. 40 watt rhp heats my 36x30x12 cages easily, drawing a fraction of that on the thermostat to maintain temps. I bet each cage costs me a couple bucks each month to run.

So a 40w appliance uses less power than a 12w to 16w light?

I pay very high power rates and the light cost 6-8$ a year. If a RHP is only on 6 hours a day it would cost just short of 14$ a year more than twice as much now if we were talking a 40w light it would be different. Even if it is dimmed and fully regulated that is 25% power on the RHP most of the time.

Lets not make things up shall we?

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

So a 40w appliance uses less power than a 12w to 16w light?

I pay very high power rates and the light cost 6-8$ a year. If a RHP is only on 6 hours a day it would cost just short of 14$ a year more than twice as much now if we were talking a 40w light it would be different. Even if it is dimmed and fully regulated that is 25% power on the RHP most of the time.

Lets not make things up shall we?

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at fullpower it is 40 watts, which would undoubtedly cook my snakes, it is only a fraction of that when maintaining temperature, this is basic, lights make light and heat, heating panel just makes heat, whats more efficient heating wise? If you want the direct relation it is 1 watt = 1 joule/sec. There is a reason i can unscrew a 13 watt cfl bulb or even a 80 watt HO florescent bulb with bare hands and not burn myself, but a 5 watt microwave incandescence bulb would burn my fingers. The less heat a bulb produces per watt, the more light it produces per watt. It's what makes LED so efficient for lighting, but not for heat, just about anything else would produce more heat with the same power.

Lets not make things up shall we?

We are speaking of flexwatt in a box.

You are speaking of light and heat like they are different. The only difference is pythons see IR and we do not.

Granted that rarely a 40w heater runs at full power that is why I calculated it at 25% power. Even at 25% for half the day it is the same cost and that is not accurate as my lights are on only 12 hours a day for 3 months in reality it would be closer to 4$ a year that same as a RHP running 20% for 8 hours which is likely close to reality. The difference in start up cost is 75$ (since everything else I have given is canadian prices $110 for an RHP delivered in Canada and the FL light tube and fixture 30$ plus a pack of five tubes 15$ is 45$) even if you only have the RHP at 10% power output for only 8 hours every 24 it would take 33 years to save enough to cover the RHP. If we are talking cost lights are cheaper. max power clearly goes to the RHP but who need 190º inside the enclosure?

The other issue that has been ignored, RHP (Radiant Heat Panels) are Radiant heat not convection heat. By definition do not heat the air and still do not do the same thing as lights so yes they can replace UTH systems they still do not effect ambient air temps enough to replace a oil heater. How does that make them more efficient if you still need the oil heater then is the initial issue?

light and heat are different, light travels faster and farther through air. more energy will stay in the cage as heat vs as light if you have any kind of screen or window. As for how much my rhp are pulling, I don't have anything that can measure the amperage of something that small. My only meter that can do that starts at 1 amp and even at 100% power the rhp would only draw a 1/3 amp, so I cant get us some real numbers. The RHP is going to be more efficient by design tho. They do heat the air indirectly, heat the ground the ground heats the air, energy is still staying in the cage, no other heat sources needed, perfect heat gradient, no oil heater needed. Its why people get them. I can see how canada prices are very different though. I was just referring to saving on the electric bill. doubling the bill is a big jump, spending a few bucks to save some more later didn't seem unreasonable.

Something I want to ask though, can the light even do the job? if it can great, but you said with insulation you get 10-15 degrees above room temp, the op said his room may drop below 70. while I realize there are many ways to care for ball pythons, the caresheet recommends 90 degree hot spot, which might be unobtainable. also what would his temps be when the lights turn off? i know people who keep their bp's at a constant 80 with no heat gradient, but dropping the temps every night, are we getting into dangerous temps now? I don't know personally, but just questions that come to mind with his situation.

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

You might have to switch to a type of cage that isn't dependent on room temps. I really like by PVC enclosures from Animal Plastics because They can be easily maintained even when the room temperature drops below 70 degrees.

Heating a 4 x 2 x 1 foot cage takes a lot less power than heating an entire room.

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...t/c22733cf.jpg

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Did u make this setup??

Some oil heaters have multiple settings, 500 w, 1000 w, and 1500 w, I keep mine on 500 in a 11x11 room and it's keeps it at 80 no problem. My electric bill goes up about $15-$20 when I use the oil heater.

Ok guys with the oil heater I keep my hotspot and cool spot and temp gradient to specs. Because of the PVC enclosure I am able to keep them pretty constant as long as it wasn't an overly warm day "max cool side 83" maybe I need to monkey with my settings on the oil heater or look into that RHP. Problem being with either those or the lights is I won't see the results of my work until the end of the month plus I wouldn't put it past the power company to jack the rates up. North Carolina here...they make their own rules on a lot of things :P

Deep red and heat travel about the same but that is splitting hairs. No lights provide only ambients you still need an UTH. My room is cool by that I mean below what is thought to be normal or 68ºF 20ºC I have greatly variable room temps winter summer and during the day and night. The average winter is 65 maybe and it does drop to 60 sometimes. I get cool. Heating the room is simply not an option they only way to really have control (for me) is to use the two oil heaters I own set one to max (1200w) run it full on all the time and use the 2400w to hold 80º it runs 60% most of the time. The cost is crazy.

I use two RHPs (40w and 80w) the 40w is in a 24x24x12 PVCx enclosure originally my test enclosure (quarantine) it is currently occupied. (no experimenting with it currently) It is running a RHP as a hot spot a UTH as a cool surface (and unused warm surface UTH as well) and the lights. With the lights off the ambient are temps drop to 2-4ºF over the room temps (this morning 67ºF) This is the normal for the RHP I have never had more than 4ºF over the ambient air temps. I am using paper substrate and light plastic bowls there is nothing to generate thermal mass and conduct to the enclosure. I believe you might get 5-6º perhaps but clearly that is far to little in my case. The lights add enough that even with out the RHP it will hold 75º on the coolest night I have that is JUST lights (experiments on empty of 9 months to find the most cost effective efficient system.)

I freely admit RHP generate some ambients and for that matter UTH do as well just not near enough on their own. The only way is to add heavy objects to the enclosure that NOBODY speaks of when they suggest RHPs can control ambients air temps. Most try to tell people they heat air directly which if it were true would make them very very very dangerous. Mine runs a surface temp of 100-115º all the time if that were heating air too the enclosure would be far to high ambient temps with cold surface temps. It is difficult when people whom have nice toasty spaces say how to manage ambient temps when they have little experience with such an issue. I agree RHP are more efficient heaters but the available power is not needed it is used at or below 20% power all the time the cost savings is maybe a few bucks a year at best it is hard to pay for given start up costs unless you need the full power (like my arboreal set up I use much more power to generate a vertical gradient) It is like having a 22000 CFM fan in a living room that is only 100 sq feet it can never be run beyond the lowest setting. Having the ability to heat an enclosure to 150º is needed why? I believe if the tstat fails and everything goes haywire (power surge for example take out t-stat and failsafe) the final line of defence is the heater not producing excessively high temps. The majority of my enclosures simply can never get hotter than 100ºF certainly too hot but not enough to kill the animals they hold. I am slowly converting all to low wattage heaters this will include the Q enclosure with the RHP.

I have been a bit short lately currently negotiating (union) and being told I am lying every day and placing documents on the table supporting what was said then being told I didn't understand what the lawyer said and inferred I must be dumb then playing back the recorded statement and watching the back peddling again everyday has made me temperamental. I do apologize for being short tempered.

Hey kitedemon any chance you could please post some pictures of what you fluorescent led setup looks like? And does any one have suggestions on where to get the appropriate fluorescent kit and led set up supplies that I can make? I'm guessing more red LEDs are better for this mix?

Sure I am at work until what seems like forever... I'll get some when I get home (if I get home... :tears: ) I have this one of the led on and IR gun.

I would suggest Blue LED pythons unlike many reptiles hunt by infrared they are highly adapted to the red end of the spectrum. Both optically and heat pits I know they adapt and also blue LED still emit IR (heat) but running an IR light (near we see as dark red and far we don't see at all but pythons do) just seems to me to foul this ability. The same reason why UV (deep blues) are not always suggested for reptiles as many species track UV. Pythons, royals especially, it is doubtful they have this ability.

http://images58.fotki.com/v154/photo...ledtemp-vi.jpgHosted on Fotki

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

I freely admit RHP generate some ambients and for that matter UTH do as well just not near enough on their own. The only way is to add heavy objects to the enclosure that NOBODY speaks of when they suggest RHPs can control ambients air temps.

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There is a lot of truth to that. My substrate is cypress mulch, which heats up from the rhp and then in turn heats the air. Sometime I forget not everyone uses the same substrate. As for the reason they are 40 watts, I do agree it is way overkill. I do not know for sure, but i do believe, that the reason they are so high of wattage is just because the heating elements they use are standard and when they build a panel of "this" size, that's the wattage you get. Its more the surface area I need, doing its job so I have the target heat gradient, if they made the panel smaller it would be colder on the cold side, regardless of it being the same wattage or not. I just run a rhp with nothing else and it works for me. but my room doesn't get nearly as cold as yours does, 70 is about as low as mine gets. I have no doubts I would have to make changes if I was getting into the 60's. Also I don't see anything that need apologizing, give em hell!

Haha hate to push but any word on those pics ;) :P I know you got a lot going on! Anyone have suggestions where to get fluorescents for my RBI cage? Need safe ones that are covered so my snake doesn't get hurt

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MrLang

Thank god. It's my first month in my new place and I was seriously freaking out reading this thread as I haven't received my first electric bill.

I'm using one of those dinky electric fan powered space heaters. It runs probably 25% of the time. I think the watts were only 400 or so, so I'm hoping it's not too bad.

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I'm doubting you'll see a big difference. My oil heater is 1,500 watts at full power.

My opinion is that the spike is not just from the heater. If you look at it mathematically, a 1500 watt heater, at full blast at all times would run you 3.6kWh per day. At 10 cents per kWh, which would be high for my area, means it would cost you $3.6 per day or $108 per month max. And that would be absolute max with the heater constantly blazing. I would have to stick the heater outside in the dead of winter to even come close to this. As others have ball parked, my 12x12 room that would stay at 65 otherwise, costs about $30 to hear to 82

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MAX? I pay just under 14¢ kWh so 1500w heater at max is 144.03 monthly. I have a friend who pays 41¢ after a gov subsitidy (84¢ kWh with out) suggesting what someone else would pay is a poor idea unless you know what rates they pay and how much power they are talking about. If my friend ran a 1500w heater for a month it would be $864.18/month this is the highest I know of.

Isn't NY city close to 20¢ kWh?

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

I have a friend who pays 41¢ after a gov subsitidy (84¢ kWh with out)

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Where is that.... Holy crap

How do you figure out kilowatts per hour?

FYI - I have PSE&G in NJ. They break it up between electricity and distribution. Total is 17.34 cents.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

MAX? I pay just under 14¢ kWh so 1500w heater at max is 144.03 monthly. I have a friend who pays 41¢ after a gov subsitidy (84¢ kWh with out) suggesting what someone else would pay is a poor idea unless you know what rates they pay and how much power they are talking about. If my friend ran a 1500w heater for a month it would be $864.18/month this is the highest I know of.

Isn't NY city close to 20¢ kWh?

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I did say at $0.10 it would cost you $108 MAX, never mentioned any other electric rates. So yes if you did pay more than that is will be more than that. My fault for not giving every instance known to man, but let me rephrase it for you, it will cost you 108 kWh * your kWh rate at MAX and assuming a 30 day month.

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Originally Posted by 3skulls

How do you figure out kilowatts per hour? .

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Without hijacking the thread too much, a kWh is how many kilowatts (1000 watts) an item uses in 1 hour. So for instance, a 60 watt light bulb left on for 1 hour will be 0.06kWh. In the case of the heater, most are 1500w max output or 1.5kWh if full blast for 1 hour.

Thanks !

WhaTi (Martins Lake) NWT Canada. All the territories are higher than 25¢ I believe some way higher there is a reduction in rates after the first 1000 kWh.

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I did miss read that sorry.