Raising ambient temperature options

Hi Guys,

My setup consists of a normal baby ball python in a 2ft LX24 viv with a 12x12 heat mat and stat keeping the temps between 32-35C. The problem being as i live in a cold house and country (U.K) the ambient on the cold side can go down so far as 18C which i know is too cold, even with the heating on all day yesterday i could only get it up to 20.5C max, which really isn't a long term solution anyway.

I am looking for help to what i can do to get everything right on the cold side of the viv. I'm guessing a low watt ceramic with a stat (probably a twin stat so i have an excuse to get another snake with the spare one that's in there :banana:), fitting and guard is the expensive option. Is there anything cheaper i could look at, like maybe an unregulated infra-red bulb or anything that is suitable, cheaper and not detrimental to the snakes health or happiness?

I am quite prepared to pay whatever it costs to get the setup right but obviously would not want to pay north of £70 when there could quite possibly be a solution for a lot less that does the same job.

Thanks for any advice, and have included a pic of the viv if this helps at all.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y64...118_085745.jpg

If your cage has a screen top you could very easily add a lamp our a che. Then you could use a rheostat (dimmer) to dial down the heat if need be.

The other easy option that I have to do is use a small room heater to heat my snakes room alone. I like this because I don't need a heating element for each snake.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KMG

If your cage has a screen top you could very easily add a lamp our a che. Then you could use a rheostat (dimmer) to dial down the heat if need be.

The other easy option that I have to do is use a small room heater to heat my snakes room alone. I like this because I don't need a heating element for each snake.

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Thanks for that, unfortunately it's a wooden top with a corn snake terrarium on top of it so any overhead or even modification to the roof isn't an option. They are housed in my living room, which you think would be the hottest room in the house but i personally hate heat and don't think i could live with it either.

I'm guessing my only option is a fitting screwed to the back of the viv with a guard around it. The important questions being:

1/ What type of bulb is best for 24hr uptime other than a ceramic, maybe black or infra-red as i would prefer some subtle lighting if it does not upset the snake?

2/ As it is to only raise ambient temps could i just get a certain watt which *should* just raise the ambient 4 or 5 degrees (i have a dual probe therm, so can check the cold side temp) without having to add a dimmer/stat?

3/ Is heat cable wrapped around stuff in the viv likely to raise the ambient to where i need it?

Thanks again

Fluorescent lights run around 43ºF they actually go a long way to heating ambient temps. This is what I use on a simple timer system. Over night I use LED (deep blue) aquarium lighting. The kind that is NOT dimmable. The electronics that are in to drop the power from the mains to 12v run quite a lot of heat they easily hit 33-5ºC. They also will make a big dent in ambient heating. This is a relatively cheap option and if it is not 100% effective you can always add a RHP and something solid later. (RHP do not heat air but can be used to heat heavy objects that will.)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Aquarium-F...item3f1e22f05e

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

Fluorescent lights run around 43ºF they actually go a long way to heating ambient temps. This is what I use on a simple timer system. Over night I use LED (deep blue) aquarium lighting. The kind that is NOT dimmable. The electronics that are in to drop the power from the mains to 12v run quite a lot of heat they easily hit 33-5ºC. They also will make a big dent in ambient heating. This is a relatively cheap option and if it is not 100% effective you can always add a RHP and something solid later. (RHP do not heat air but can be used to heat heavy objects that will.)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Aquarium-F...item3f1e22f05e

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Thanks, if i was to go for that led strip could it be left on 24hrs and would i need a guard?

No they are totally fine the ceiling mount prevents the snake from laying against it for any lengh of time. RHP are thought to be safe and they hit 190º on the surface.

Hi,

I'd guard all lights - the end of fourescents get hot enough I wouldn't happily hold them.

I have used red fireglow bulbs on dimmers before to bump ambients with a nice hand made guard.

The benefit of those is the fact they can be left on 24/7 without disturbing the snake.


dr del

I have an led light strip on mine from here http://www.surreypetsupplies.co.uk/w...e-2ft-kit.html and it works well very bright but cool to touch also http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/11/19/ju9e7amy.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/11/19/2ezezusa.jpg

They also do red and blue aswell

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dr del

Hi,

I'd guard all lights - the end of fourescents get hot enough I wouldn't happily hold them.

I have used red fireglow bulbs on dimmers before to bump ambients with a nice hand made guard.

The benefit of those is the fact they can be left on 24/7 without disturbing the snake.


dr del

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Del forgot the ends... Mine have plastic guards I never considered open tubes.

Would also guard a RHP as well then?
They get hot as well hotter than all my UTH do (190º open mine during the tests I did ran 120-150 to deliver a 90º hot spot I was never happy with that heat ) but as the manufacturer states not hot enough to generate a contact burn. I have decided that they have no place in enclosures less than 18 inches I though perhaps I was alone in this...

I choose deep blue as Royals have been proven to not see well in the blue end of the spectrum and their senses are 'tuned' for the red end recent results have determined Yellow to red (IR) end has the greatest amount of sensing. I recommend blue over red based on the lower amount of impact especially royals other pythons they see more blue so it is less of an advantage all pythons see red (true, near IR, and middle IR however)
http://jeb.biologists.org/content/202/14/1931.full.pdf

Hi,

I'm kind of a belt and braces keeper so probably would guard an RHP.

The thing about using the bulbs to increase ambient heat is we know the snake can see heat anyway. :)

So even a ceramic must be a spotlight from their point of view. I haven't tried blue with mine yet simply as it is easier to find the red fireglow bulbs in my area.

It would be a good experiment to see which changes their behaviour less though.


dr del

My guess is it makes no difference in fact I suspect a white light would be adapted as well. (not suggesting that however) what I have found is that the lights I have heat the surrounding area so although there is a difference in ceiling and light it isn't as much as ceiling walls hard to say if there is a single large light area or if everything kinda glows. I wish we could experience what they do. Can they separate heat pit info from eye info or are they over laid? I wish there were an answer sadly biology can only answer some of the questions.

....... i'm not as advanced...lol.... so i went thre rhp route , best decision i could have made, my ambient temps rarely varies a degree...

I have never had any luck using RHPs for ambient air temps they by them selves do not heat air. The result of a long debate was that they can be used to heat heavy objects and that in turn heat the air. It is very easy to prove with the panel on move your hand from away from the panel to directly under it. There is a noticeable and dramatic temperature change under the panel? This indicates it is not heating the air as if it were heat would be much more even. Often people believe the RHP is doing large amounts by measuring 'air' temps under it this is actually not air temps but the surface of the probe as it is a radiant heat system it heats objects not air.

..... not disputing anything by no means but if don't have my rhp my enclosure would not be at 84 degrees in a 70 degree room.....whatever it is actually heating it is helping me keep correct ambient temps ....

Are you measuring under the panel of off to the side by a fair bit?

..... my wireless unit is about 3 inches behind it and about 6 inches to the right of it ...

Thank you for all the input. I decided to go for a ceramic bulb in the end to prevent any possibility of lighting stressing the snake.

Exo Terra Ceramic Heat Emitter 40w

Arcadia Ceramic Lamp Holder & Bracket (screw fitting)

I have ordered the above and now only need a guard. my plan is to take the bracket off the fitting, drill a hole in the roof of the viv and have it like a normal household light. Does the reverse end of the ceramic get hot to the degree where it is likely to burn the wooden roof of the viv or will i be OK?

Also any recommendation on a guard, the ones i can find are 12x16cm which in my opinion are far too long and would look silly hanging from the roof of the viv?

Looking at this:

http://www.exo-terra.com/images/shar...2044_table.jpg

i will see how it goes but it does not look likely a stat will be required.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mshadows

..... not disputing anything by no means but if don't have my rhp my enclosure would not be at 84 degrees in a 70 degree room.....whatever it is actually heating it is helping me keep correct ambient temps ....

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Same here. My accurite is far away from my RHP and I actually turned it off last night. When my fluorescent light went out ambient temps dropped to 77F. When I have the rhp on the ambient temps stay at 80.

I guess they are not actually Radiant heat panels?!! Mine makes only 2 maybe 3 degrees of difference and I can feel a very marked difference in air temp. This for me calls into a HUGE safety issue with them as they easily get to over 160º (mine states 190º in the specs) and this would mean they would be capable of heating air temps dramatically over the safe temps. Interesting I wonder why they have change since I got mine a year or two ago? Mine are just flexwatt in a plastic box with some fibreglass. Does the housing get warm?

CHE and RHP emit IR radiation snakes see this just fine. I like lights as they warm the whole ceiling and the air so that rather than a bright spot it would be a over all light area. That is why I pick blue as studies show royal pythons have limited response to it. Red being in the IR family we know that they hunt via IR they are extremely sensitive to.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

Does the housing get warm?

CHE and RHP emit IR radiation snakes see this just fine. I like lights as they warm the whole ceiling and the air so that rather than a bright spot it would be a over all light area. That is why I pick blue as studies show royal pythons have limited response to it. Red being in the IR family we know that they hunt via IR they are extremely sensitive to.

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The housing to the RHP gets warm/almost hot to the touch...I'll hit it with with my IR gun tonight to see how warm.

It's funny you mention this today. I fed one bp a F/T rat last night. He usually hits the rat right at the opening to his hide and pulls it inside. Last night, he really went after it and ended up in front of his hide, directly below the RHP. After 2 minutes, he ended his wrap, let go of the rat, and then acted confused for the next 5 minutes or so, periodically moving toward the RHP, then back to his hide (which did have rat residue on it:D) then back to the rat.... Anyway, he eventually ate the rat, but I do think the RHP heat footprint was confusing him.

Hi,

Quote:

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Originally Posted by iPHAILZ

Thank you for all the input. I decided to go for a ceramic bulb in the end to prevent any possibility of lighting stressing the snake.

Exo Terra Ceramic Heat Emitter 40w

Arcadia Ceramic Lamp Holder & Bracket (screw fitting)

I have ordered the above and now only need a guard. my plan is to take the bracket off the fitting, drill a hole in the roof of the viv and have it like a normal household light. Does the reverse end of the ceramic get hot to the degree where it is likely to burn the wooden roof of the viv or will i be OK?

Also any recommendation on a guard, the ones i can find are 12x16cm which in my opinion are far too long and would look silly hanging from the roof of the viv?

Looking at this:

http://www.exo-terra.com/images/shar...2044_table.jpg

i will see how it goes but it does not look likely a stat will be required.

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I haven't used that style - but I had to use a ceramic connector for mine so, without a stat, they might get hot enough to cause problems. I would ask what type of holder they recommend to be used with them.

As for the guard I bought some square wire mesh and made my own with pliers. I fixed it to the roof of the viv using either the corner blocks from B&Q or ceramic blocks.

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...ramicgaurd.JPG

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...rtankgaurd.JPG

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...urdfixings.JPG


dr del

Dav4 a while back I though it would be interesting to do a few pics with a night shot (ir) video camera of my enclosures. The one I had used an emitter (very dark red leds) I decided it was a remarkably bad idea as two of mine had multiple glass strikes at where the light was. It was more dramatic than I expected. I figured days after feeding they would not react so aggressively to it.