two ball pythons in one tank?

i have seen several animal videos/in person ball python tanks with two snakes in one tank.usually these are bigger tanks.
i want to get another python but would it be a good idea to add another python. my current ball python is a normal male about 4 feet in a 75 gallon.

I'll let Aaron(TheSerpentMerchant) handle this one.

I don't recommend housing two together personally unless for breeding. I would get another new tank or tub for a new addition and practice proper quarantine: you can't practice safe QT by putting a new snake right in with an established one. I'd do a search for housing two BPs together, there's many threads on the topic.

Divide the tank with a piece of plexiglass and set it up as two separate enclosures. 75gal is more space than an adult BP will ever need.

If you have the means to provide a new animal its own enclosure, you should do definitely that. Cohabituating allows for quite a few issues without any real benefit (besides money, but these are animals we're talking!):

- spread of disease, if one animal gets sick, the other will get it too

- inability to tell who defecated, shed, peed, etc. If something looks unusual or someone regurged, who knows which bodily product came from which animal?

- competition of resources that causes stress -- one snake will usually lay on top of the other in struggle for good basking spots, like over the heat tape

- feeding stress - you can't feed them in the enclosure, so you have to separate them in different boxes, which causes unnecessary stress

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Slashmaster

- spread of disease, if one animal gets sick, the other will get it too

- inability to tell who defecated, shed, peed, etc. If something looks unusual or someone regurged, who knows which bodily product came from which animal?

- competition of resources that causes stress -- one snake will usually lay on top of the other in struggle for good basking spots, like over the heat tape

- feeding stress - you can't feed them in the enclosure, so you have to separate them in different boxes, which causes unnecessary stress

---

you can keep them both in the enclosure, but as mention above those would be problems.

I wouldnt reccommend it unless you have alot of experience with herps/the specific species.

I've kept two BP together and had NO problems whatsoever. I currently keep the following together : 2 Bredli, 2 Dumerils Boa, 2 Red Tail Boa, Yellow Anaconda and Half dwarf Burmese, 2 GTP, 2 Jungle Carpets, another pair of Jungle Carpets, more Carpets. I've NEVER had a snake try to eat the other snake. Never had them "fight " over anything. Never had ANYTHING bad happen. So yes, it CAN be done without anything bad happening. A lot of people who say "it should never be done" are just repeating what someone else told them not to do and most of those people are just repeating what they were told.

Personally I would not do it. It's much easier to monitor the individual animals health when they are separated. Also you never know when those animals who have gotten along suddenly decide not to and good chance I would not be around to separate them before injury.

However I do have two crested geckos: non breeding and non prey eating females who currently live together. Oddly enough I had the one and she was doing great. I purchased another from a breeder that had been living with another female. Once she arrived and was living in quarantine she was not eating and losing weight. Geckos can take a little while to settle in but i was concerned because our others had quicker adjustment times. After a few weeks and after talking with the breeder we took her to the vet. We got deworming meds and after another month we got her weight to hold steady. The breeder had mentioned she lived with another female and we both wondered if it was possible she was lonely. We waited another two weeks while her weight held steady and placed her with the other female. We changed the enclosure around and changed the bedding and gave them more hiding spots and two feed dishes.
They were checked daily and weighed weekly. In the first week she gained two grams by a months time she gained 10 grams. They are still living together and both are doing great. Checked over every few days and weighed biweekly.
So for some species I guess it's possible.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Void

I've kept two BP together and had NO problems whatsoever. I currently keep the following together : 2 Bredli, 2 Dumerils Boa, 2 Red Tail Boa, Yellow Anaconda and Half dwarf Burmese, 2 GTP, 2 Jungle Carpets, another pair of Jungle Carpets, more Carpets. I've NEVER had a snake try to eat the other snake. Never had them "fight " over anything. Never had ANYTHING bad happen. So yes, it CAN be done without anything bad happening. A lot of people who say "it should never be done" are just repeating what someone else told them not to do and most of those people are just repeating what they were told.

---

Problem with this is it only has to happen once, so why risk it? There is NO reason to house two snakes together except someone thinks it looks nice. There is no benefit to the snake, but a list of risks. Can it be done, of course. Should it.......

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aalomon

Problem with this is it only has to happen once, so why risk it? There is NO reason to house two snakes together except someone thinks it looks nice. There is no benefit to the snake, but a list of risks. Can it be done, of course. Should it.......

---

There's a lot of things that only has to happen once, but that doesn't stop people from doing them. There's a chance something could happen to a snake by itself, that doesn't stop you from keeping it does it? If you know what you're doing then chances are you'll never have a problem. Having kept multiple snakes together for years without any problems shows that it can be done if done right. Again...just cause there's a chance something could go wrong doesn't mean it will. There's a chance I could die riding my GSX-R but that doesn't stop me from riding it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Void

There's a lot of things that only has to happen once, but that doesn't stop people from doing them. There's a chance something could happen to a snake by itself, that doesn't stop you from keeping it does it? If you know what you're doing then chances are you'll never have a problem. Having kept multiple snakes together for years without any problems shows that it can be done if done right. Again...just cause there's a chance something could go wrong doesn't mean it will. There's a chance I could die riding my GSX-R but that doesn't stop me from riding it.

---

Problem with that is I believe that it is our job to keep the snake as healthy as possible. When I use something I try to avoid things with high risks or things that only have risks and no benefits to the animal. I dont use unregulated UTH because they can over heat, even though it would save me money. I dont use pine because it can cause URI even though I like the smell and look over aspen. Especially with how inexpensive it it to set up a second tank, why take an unnecessary risk? Just so it looks good to you? Again, there is no reason to house snakes together unless you are breeding them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Void

I've kept two BP together and had NO problems whatsoever. I currently keep the following together : 2 Bredli, 2 Dumerils Boa, 2 Red Tail Boa, Yellow Anaconda and Half dwarf Burmese, 2 GTP, 2 Jungle Carpets, another pair of Jungle Carpets, more Carpets. I've NEVER had a snake try to eat the other snake. Never had them "fight " over anything. Never had ANYTHING bad happen. So yes, it CAN be done without anything bad happening. A lot of people who say "it should never be done" are just repeating what someone else told them not to do and most of those people are just repeating what they were told.

---

I kept two Columbian boas together and one day when I went to separate them for feeding, they did strike and begin constricting each other. These were fairly large boas, in the 7 to 8 ft range and getting them apart was quite a challenge.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aalomon

Problem with that is I believe that it is our job to keep the snake as healthy as possible. When I use something I try to avoid things with high risks or things that only have risks and no benefits to the animal. I dont use unregulated UTH because they can over heat, even though it would save me money. I dont use pine because it can cause URI even though I like the smell and look over aspen. Especially with how inexpensive it it to set up a second tank, why take an unnecessary risk? Just so it looks good to you? Again, there is no reason to house snakes together unless you are breeding them.

---

The risk from keeping them together can't be that high if I've never had anything bad happen in years. In the end its all personal OPINION. I do it because I want too and because I can and none of my animals are suffering in anyway. If any of my animals started to show any negative signs from being with another snake then they would get separated.

- - - Updated - - -

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by d_mcclelland

I kept two Columbian boas together and one day when I went to separate them for feeding, they did strike and begin constricting each other. These were fairly large boas, in the 7 to 8 ft range and getting them apart was quite a challenge.

---

I bet that was a nightmare! We'll I can't say much about that since all I know is what you said. Did you feed em in the same tank? How long were they together? Was the smell of food already in the air by the time you went to separate em?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Void

The risk from keeping them together can't be that high if I've never had anything bad happen in years. In the end its all personal OPINION. I do it because I want too and because I can and none of my animals are suffering in anyway. If any of my animals started to show any negative signs from being with another snake then they would get separated.

---

Problem is, some of the issues from housing snakes together can mean you dont know there is anything wrong until a snake is dead. Youre right, its opinion and here is mine.

1. There are no benefits to my animal by housing multiple snakes in one tank and Im not going to risk issues I can prevent just becuase I like how it looks.
2. Having to answer a phone call asking advice on how to pull a corn snake out of its cagemates mouth (both corns, and not a feeding day) was bad enough, I never want to have to deal with it myself.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Void

The risk from keeping them together can't be that high if I've never had anything bad happen in years. In the end its all personal OPINION. I do it because I want too and because I can and none of my animals are suffering in anyway. If any of my animals started to show any negative signs from being with another snake then they would get separated.

- - - Updated - - -




I bet that was a nightmare! We'll I can't say much about that since all I know is what you said. Did you feed em in the same tank? How long were they together? Was the smell of food already in the air by the time you went to separate em?

---

I always separated them for feeding. No prey animals in the room prior to separation. As a keeper of burms and retics, I learned very early on about SFEs, (stupid feeding errors) and avoided them religiously. They had been together for a bit less than 4 months. It was just one of those days when they were both hungry, figured it was feeding day and struck at the first thing they saw move. They were kept separate until breeding time from that day forward.

I would keep them separate. Even the petco petstore people think the snakes should be kept separately when the snakes leave the pet store so that's gotta mean something ;)

I also would not recommend it. Yes it can be done but it takes experience to do well. There are very few whom have that experience. It isn't less work but more they ideally have multiple hot spots and dual gradients ect. Add the issues of correct quarantine and such it makes it a very long term operation just adding a second snake is irresponsible it means dual set ups for a full quarantine period anyway so there is no savings there as it means 3 enclosures for 2 snakes need to be set up. It can be done but should be left to the very advanced keepers.

Oh boy, here we go again and oh yes, here I am about to step up on my well-worn soap box..................for the umpteenth time.

Pine bedding does not cause URIs, fetal alchohol syndrome, bacteria -resistant gonorrhea or any other health issue. I've used it for a long, long time without any issues whatsoever (longer than most of you Gen Zers have even been alive). So do many of the breeders that you are all fanbois of. Unless you got some proof that does not consist of an internet rumor, a scientific expose written by a sexually frustrated housewife, a forum post typed by some cheetos munching wide body living in his parent's basement or a Melissa Kraplan care sheet, do the hobby a favor and stop dealing in internet rumors. I will put the health of my snakes and the breeding record of my animals (which are all kept on pine) against anyone who wants to go down that route.

Now, the statement was made that no SNAKES should ever be housed together, ever. Bull puckey. There are species that will not breed unless they are house year round together - spilotes, thrasops, some philodryas, rhamnophis, rhamphiophis etc., etc. There are indeed some species that should NEVER be housed together, but to say that there are no species that should be cohabitated is wrong. So wrong and so naive that it would be laughable if it wasn't so flipping conceited in its totality.

We recommended that people new to the hobby do not practice cohabitation because there is acquired knowledge and skills that are required to do it successfully. Most of the "reasons" for not doing it are not valid at all. These "reasons" have been dissected and debunked God knows how many times but like the skid marks in my white boxers, or the ring of fat around my waist - do not seem to want to go away.

To the OP - you CAN keep two ball pythons together. But if you have to ask the question, then you probably shouldn't.

Skips replies always make my day :)

Sent from my LS670 using Tapatalk 2

I completely agree with Skip on the pine comment. I've said it myself over and over again. Pine is safe. I've never even seen a bag of pine bedding in any store marketed for animal use that wasn't kiln dried. As it should be. That's how it's processed.

The only dangerous bedding I've ever found studies on is cedar. I've found studies which state that cedar bedding used with rabbits over time caused certain organs to fail. Of course this couldn't be good for reptiles either so I'd never use it. Pine however, is safe...

Many old school breeders used pine for many years. Still do. The breeders who started this wonderful hobby and passion for all of us. Why? Because it was all that was available aside from cedar. If it was dangerous don't you think we'd know by now??

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

I completely agree with Skip on the pine comment. I've said it myself over and over again. Pine is safe. I've never even seen a bag of pine bedding in any store marketed for animal use that wasn't kiln dried. As it should be. That's how it's processed.

The only dangerous bedding I've ever found studies on is cedar. I've found studies which state that cedar bedding used with rabbits over time caused certain organs to fail. Of course this couldn't be good for reptiles either so I'd never use it. Pine however, is safe...

Many old school breeders used pine for many years. Still do. The breeders who started this wonderful hobby and passion for all of us. Why? Because it was all that was available aside from cedar. If it was dangerous don't you think we'd know by now??

---

I am curios then, why the switch to aspen? If kiln drying solves the pine issue, why doesnt it affect cedar (Im really asking). This is the article that I was pointed to when the pine question came up

http://www.bio.davidson.edu/Courses/...S%20ON%20LIVER

It talks about the effects of pine bedding on captive mice. It showed higher immune system activity, their livers were enlarged, reproduction rates decreased and they showed a preference of any bedding over pine when given the opportunity. I know these are mice, but many of the cedar studies were also conducted on mammals.

Now, I will admit that these are older studies, does anyone have newer studies showing there is a change?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aalomon

I am curios then, why the switch to aspen? If kiln drying solves the pine issue, why doesnt it affect cedar (Im really asking). This is the article that I was pointed to when the pine question came up

http://www.bio.davidson.edu/Courses/...S%20ON%20LIVER

It talks about the effects of pine bedding on captive mice. It showed higher immune system activity, their livers were enlarged, reproduction rates decreased and they showed a preference of any bedding over pine when given the opportunity. I know these are mice, but many of the cedar studies were also conducted on mammals.

Now, I will admit that these are older studies, does anyone have newer studies showing there is a change?

---

That "study" has been discussed, dissected and essentially debunked. Much of the evidence was anecdotal, not directly related to bedding and rodents (but for example humans and sawmills) and several articles were soon written that dissected the claims point by point.

It's been covered numerous times on several forums. The article does nothing but highlight the folly of referencing shoddy and specious studies in order to make a point.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skiploder

That "study" has been discussed, dissected and essentially debunked. Much of the evidence was anecdotal, not directly related to bedding and rodents (but for example humans and sawmills) and several articles were soon written that dissected the claims point by point.

It's been covered numerous times on several forums. The article does nothing but highlight the folly of referencing shoddy and specious studies in order to make a point.

---

Do you have any copies of the articles? Much of it is (especially under the pine section), about mice. For examples, the figures were taken from
Odynets, A., O. Simonova, A. Kozhuhov, T. Saitsev, A. Verreva, L. Gnilomedova, and R. Rudzish. 1991. Beddings for laboratory animals: Criteria of Biological evaluation. Laboratornye Zhyvotnye 1:70-6.


Again, as I said it is older but I would be interested in reading newer articles contradicting this one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aalomon

I am curios then, why the switch to aspen?

---

Well personally I don't use either.. To answer the OP's question: I use either paper towels or cypress mulch for my snakes. Depending on what's going on. I switch between the two depending on breeding season, or if one of them goes on feeding strike and I'm changing things around to get it to eat. I switch to paper towels for gravid females simply because it's cleaner and easier once the eggs are down. Paper towels for snakes in quarantine to make it easier to spot mites.

I don't use aspen simply because it molds incredibly fast if you need to mist it. Cypress is mold resistant and is a lot cheaper at home depot in big bags.

I use pine for my rats because it controls odor and moisture better than anything else I've found. It's also a lot less dusty than pine pellets and is much lighter in weight.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aalomon

Do you have any copies of the articles? Much of it is (especially under the pine section), about mice. For examples, the figures were taken from
Odynets, A., O. Simonova, A. Kozhuhov, T. Saitsev, A. Verreva, L. Gnilomedova, and R. Rudzish. 1991. Beddings for laboratory animals: Criteria of Biological evaluation. Laboratornye Zhyvotnye 1:70-6.


Again, as I said it is older but I would be interested in reading newer articles contradicting this one.

---

I do. Here's a challenge for you. Find one peer reviewed paper that links the use of commercial PINE bedding to documented health issues - not anecdotal inferences to elevated hepatic function.

Reading such articles is pointless unless you understand what, for example, the data means in relation to hepatic function. As I said before, these opinion papers published by bunny and rat aficionados have been torn apart for years.