What do you all think of the "cupid" ball?

Anyone else see this as just a normal with some genetic banding? I see no influence of the gene on the super pastel, and it has no super form. Do you think it's truly a morph?

http://www.worldofballpythons.com/morphs/cupid/

Perhaps it's morph power is to make things sub-par. Perhaps this is the morph that has come along to knock all the other morphs down a peg a two lol.

This is why I wish WOBP would utalize the "description" to explain to me why that is something more than a normal;)
I can hope and dream my normals up to fame status too but I am just not that type of guy:cool:

I've never heard of it... And it's been around since 2005?

Maybe I am missing something here... I think that world of ball pythons should maybe be a little more strict as to what they are deeming morphs. That looks like a normal with a head spot, and like you guys already said, if anything, the combos are worse than the animals without the "gene". :gj:

From what I can see (from in inexperienced eye, mind you), the defining feature is a dip in the top of the occasional alien head, so it looks kind of like a heart. I guess that's where the name came from... ?

The snake itself on WOBP looks like an ugly normal IMO (apologies to the keeper of said snake). The super pastel just looks like a dingy pastel, and though I do see a "heart", he has a lot of other random patterns as well. (Like the "G" design).

So I guess the heart trait is inheritable, but not enough to pick out of a bunch like, say, an enchi. The way it mucks up the color makes the slight pattern difference not worth the trouble.

If I had the resources to breed ball pythons for cheap jokes, I'd breed a Cupid to a fire and call it a "heartburn" :D

All I know about it is that it makes people fall in love with it, dunno why tho.


sorry, bad joke :(

Isnt Luke a member here? Perhaps he could try to clarify whats going on with this snake?? :confusd: Sorry but I dont see anything special either... :confuzd:

I thought the same thing when seeing pictures at first a while back. THEN I went to Luke's house and saw these things in person and realized the full potential! They make a huge difference. The pastel Cupid looks like a super or almost like a pastel Josie when seen as a hatchling. They are very bright and hold their color amazingly! Even as an adult the colors never browned a single bit and they are neon yellow. I hope this helped to explain some about them.
I talked to luke and he said he will get on later and help clarify and post better pictures.
Matthew rimmer

I am looking forward to seeing Luke's response. If it's a morph it's a morph, it will be great to see more pics. Not saying it isn't, but that's why people choose some normals to mix with certain morphs, like only choosing their lighter normals to breed with pastels or enchis, it enhances the morph naturally but the enhancer parent is not in itself a morph. That's how it typically is with normals, again, it would be great if this has proven to be something different.

I'll just start off by saying that I've been breeding balls for 10 years and am the BIGGEST skeptic when it comes to people having dinkers that they say are new morphs. You can ask most of the people I'm friends with in this business, and they'd all agree. I have to see solid proof that something is a genetically reproducible trait before I can say its a morph, which is why I've had them for so long and never released them, nor have a lot of people seen many. If I were looking for fame, I wouldn't be breeding ball pythons ;), nor would it have not been seen often.

With that, I've reproduced Cupids almost every year that I've bred ball pythons. I've only had 7 eggs (2 from pastel cupid x cupid and 5 from pastel cupid x pastel cupid) to try and produce a super so far, so I can't say yes or no on that front as I could have easily missed. Or it could even be mixed into one of the pastels or supers I produced from one of those clutches. I'll know this year as all of the females from those clutches will be breeding this season. I've really had some great responses from people who have seen them in person. I knew I should have brought a few with me to Tinley, but I do plan on bringing some next time.

The name started out as a joke because they have a little light spot on the head that looks like a heart, but between the people I talked to it about, the name kind of stuck. Its a genetically banding gene and tends to lighten things up...and they're MEAN! lol It's a bit subtle in the base form but the pastels and supers it really makes a fantastic looking snake. Into adulthood, the pastel versions tend to white out over browning out. It's one of those genes that really does need to be seen to be appreciated as Matthew mentioned. The Super Pastel version is neon yellow at 1200 grams, and looks even nicer than when she was born. I'll be breeding it into some other genes this year as I have a few extra females and am motivated to take it off of the back burner and do some cool things with it. I'm interested to see what it will do with genes other than pastel.

I don't expect to make full believers out of everyone right away, and that's fine. There are morphs on WOBP that I'm not impressed with at all. Doesn't mean they aren't a genetically reproducible trait, and that's what WOBP is for. I have people wanting them, but I kind of doubt I even release any next year either. I'll have to see what comes from the breedings that happen this season.

I'm open to any questions or criticisms about the project. Not everything is for everyone ;)

Here's a few pics with some comparisons and some better pictures of some.

A younger Cupid from a few years back
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...5/DSCN2181.jpg

A young Pastel Cupid
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u...15/Luke575.jpg

A clutch from Pewter x Cupid The top middle being a Pastel Cupid
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u...15/Luke402.jpg

A clutch from Pastel Cupid x Normal...middle snake being a Pastel Cupid
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u...h7PasxNorm.jpg

Bottom right Pastel Cupid, and Cupids in the top right
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u...5/DSCN1724.jpg

A Pastel Cupid with a Cupid
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u...15/Luke172.jpg

Thanks so much for this writeup! Love the 2nd and last pictures, very neat. :gj::gj:

The pastel cupids look very similar to blonde pastels, i honestly thought i was looking at pics of my blonde project

Hey Luke, thanks for chiming in on the Cupid...would you be able to post a picture of a subadult/adult pastel cupid next to a pastel?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by angeluscorpion

Perhaps it's morph power is to make things sub-par. Perhaps this is the morph that has come along to knock all the other morphs down a peg a two lol.

---

Classy...nothing like crapping on someone's project.

This is the reason I wish WOBP would put descriptions with the morphs. They have a place for it, why not utalize it?
This isnt directed just at Luke but also everyone that claims a new morph and wants it listed on WOBP.................
I think the breeders need to step up and demand/provide "why" with their pics.
There are so many new claims that look like normals in pictures or they look like an already existing morph BUT no reason why it has a different name given.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RobNJ

Hey Luke, thanks for chiming in on the Cupid...would you be able to post a picture of a subadult/adult pastel cupid next to a pastel?



Classy...nothing like crapping on someone's project.

---

Based on the pics I saw on WOBP they didnt make the morph look any better. I'm not crapping on his project, just stating what I thought about it just like the OP asked.

I really like the look of the pastel cupid. Very nice.

Thanks guys, I can understand your point of being skeptical of it and not seeing what is in them. They're actually quite obvious in person, especially up against a normal. I'll be breeding a Lesser Fire to a few Cupid animals this year, so I'm interested to see how it reacts with some other genes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RobNJ

Hey Luke, thanks for chiming in on the Cupid...would you be able to post a picture of a subadult/adult pastel cupid next to a pastel?

---

Thanks, I'll try and get some up soon. Works been pretty hectic so bare with me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

This is the reason I wish WOBP would put descriptions with the morphs. They have a place for it, why not utalize it?
This isnt directed just at Luke but also everyone that claims a new morph and wants it listed on WOBP.................
I think the breeders need to step up and demand/provide "why" with their pics.
There are so many new claims that look like normals in pictures or they look like an already existing morph BUT no reason why it has a different name given.

---

I'd sent a description to Allan as well with the email I sent him. I understand he's very busy and it could have not been a well enough description for him to post up. I sent him pics of a Pastel Cupid as well but the pic wasn't what he was looking for, so I had to send him another and he hasn't gotten it up yet.

If I missed it I do apologize, but could you put up some photos of cupids next to normals of the the same age/size please? I'm just not seeing it.

Selectively breeding a banded snake to a pastel will make brighter pastels, but does that make the cupid a new morph or just another banded ball you're using to make nicer animals with :confusd:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

Selectively breeding a banded snake to a pastel will make brighter pastels, but does that make the cupid a new morph or just another banded ball you're using to make nicer animals with :confusd:

---

It's a genetic banded snake. How is that selective breeding? :confusd: It does have banding and a particular head stamp that is passed on genetically.

I have a huge 3500g+ female that i got last year and breed to my YBNazca male. She had the same bright head spot and banded type pattern. She gave me a clutch of ten eggs.
2.0 Nazca, 1.0 YB, 6.0 YB Nazca and 0.1 Odd female who looked alot like mom and very bright just like the baby cupids u have posted. Hereare a few pics of the mom and a link to a video with the clutch hatching. She will be the second to last snake shown. Just seeking your opinion on what i got. Thank You
YB NazcaX Normal http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6AaO...=ULX6AaO-ld8ps.
Mom

http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...0083_thumb.jpg
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...0082_thumb.jpg
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...0081_thumb.jpg
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...0080_thumb.jpg
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...0078_thumb.jpg

This seems like a morph that just needs to prove itself. I cant wait to see what it does in a fire and lesser gene. I have a butter i bought from luke about a year ago great snake necer had any issue with him. He was my first morph and is one of my favorite snakes.

I have to say it is difficult to prove out a line of banded animals cause all the people saying the pattern is just the random nature of things and not genetic. Honestly I sometimes think those people are more here to discourage people then actually help people out. I have our own line that we are working with and few people respect this morph. Recessive and Dominate lines have been proven to date, but probably the enchi, woma, and countless others started out as someone trying to prove a genetic banded project. Some crazy stuff has came out of those attempts. I believe right now my line is dominate and this year we are pairing it with its first morph, a blond pastel. Now we have not done a pairing of daughter back to father or brother yet, but unfortunately my first pairing had issues and put this project on the shelf for a year or two. Right now I fortunately have 6 daughters from him that hatched out this year that look just like him and will be raised up for breeding.

Really I think it is important to keep a line labeled until its genetics are fully realized. Does this mean they should each get their own name? I can't answer that, but if I was to sell one of the hatchlings from my project to someone as just a banded/genetic banded and later proved it to be something more would it be nice to be able to track the lineage of these banded lines better?

It's fine that some people don't see it. I didn't come on here or anywhere saying it was the next big thing. It's a proven, reproducible trait, that's why its on the WOBP. Not because I am trying to hype up some normal looking snake so I can sell it for a ton of money. If I were throwing out hype, you would have seen me trying to sell them and you would have seen it and heard about it a long time ago and you'd all be tired of hearing it by now lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

Selectively breeding a banded snake to a pastel will make brighter pastels, but does that make the cupid a new morph or just another banded ball you're using to make nicer animals with :confusd:

---

If it were selective breeding, it wouldn't have separated itself from the original pastel male I'd bought and bred to regular old normals, nor would it have reproduced itself from breeding him to different animals not in the line every year.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cecilbturtle

If I missed it I do apologize, but could you put up some photos of cupids next to normals of the the same age/size please? I'm just not seeing it.

---

I'll get a few pics of some more comparison shots when I'm able to get the chance.

Wexotics, I'm only on my phone right now, so I'll have to check your pics out later when I'm on my computer.

Luke- Thank you for sharing the background and pictures with us. I'm sorry I was one of the morph's critics. I still think the WOBP pictures do the morph little justice now that I've seen the ones you've put up here. It's a bit difficult to see the heart stamp in certain types of lighting, but I thought it was cute when I did see it!

Please keep us updated on your results when you breed the offspring back in; I'm curious about the super form. (Not that you owe us bunch of 'haters' anything! :P ) Until then I'll be patiently waiting with my foot in my mouth.