NEED opinions & advice...

Hey y'all! I'm in a little dilemma & I am wanting some advice from my fellow ball owners & lovers. A good friend of mine was given a male spider & a female pastel in June. At the time she is unemployled, so she can't afford to feed the two snakes every five days. So she came to me asking me to foster her two balls, which is no problem at all. Well, when I got the snakes they were visibly malnourished & taken care of improperly. She had a jar as the water bowl and no UTH, with a gord as a hide & a bunch of sharp shells for decoration. On top of that the female pastel has a stuck shed. & supposedly the male spider has not shed since she got them. They had not eaten in over 6 weeks. Keep in mind, they were born in June & should be on a 5 day feeding schedule. I tried offering her cash money for the two snakes (so I know they will be in good, educated hands) but she turned it down. I've had ball pythons & reptiles in general for a better part of my life. My last ball that passed away was 25 years old. I am very attentive to my reptiles, I check cage temps & humidity every other day, so she & I both know her snakes will be in the best of hands. I'm afraid I'm going to get them back to 100% health & properly fatten them up, and she's that's when she is going to want to take them back. If she does take them back I am very confident the snakes will be improperly taken care of again & they will go back to being unhealthy & malnourished. In this situation, what would y'all do? I figure if I keep offering her cash she may just take it. Or should I just keep a total count of how much I spend on mice to feed them, the $ spent on new hides, UTH, and a proper water dish?... & when she asks for the balls back I can give her the bill? It's a sticky situation, I know, but I just hate seeing snakes that aren't taken care of properly & aren't fed, it breaks my heart & I would hate to see these two snakes to deteriorate. Advice is wanted! Thanks in advance & blessed be!

I'm posting comparison pictures so y'all can better assess the situation.
I can't find my scale at the moment so I put each snake in the same Tupperware container for size comparison.

The first picture is of my female albino, born June 26, 2012.
http://i45.tinypic.com/2q8amoy.jpg

Second picture is the male spider, born sometime in June as well.
http://i49.tinypic.com/20aa05v.jpg

Third picture is of the female pastel, also born sometime in June.
http://i49.tinypic.com/244uyyh.jpg

Wow. First, serious props to you for taking them out of the situation and doing what you can to help. From those pics, it's quite obvious they need some TLC from someone who cares enough to do what's best for the animals... As for how to handle the situation, it's a sticky one. If this person truly is a good friend, I would continue offering money for the snakes while not so subtly implying that the snakes were MUCH smaller than they should be at that size. I would also keep track of the expenses for feeding and caring for the snakes in the time you have them. Maybe during your cash offer attempts, you can pull out the records and say THIS is how much I have spent on food. THIS is how much I spent getting the appropriate housing for them. Maybe then your friend will understand that the the money you're putting into caring for them will likely be around what you're offering to pay for them and logic will prevail. Or maybe your friend will lose interest while you have the snakes and she'll just tell you to keep them, or finally take you up on an offer. Without knowing the situation firsthand and without knowing your friend personally, it's a tough call. I'm leery of business dealings with friends as those are the ones that tend to go bad, feelings get hurt and friendships get damaged.

To sum up my long winded post, good luck in however you handle it. It's not an easy spot to be in... But don't give up and keep fighting for what's best for the animals overall.

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Originally Posted by Inknsteel

Wow. First, serious props to you for taking them out of the situation and doing what you can to help. From those pics, it's quite obvious they need some TLC from someone who cares enough to do what's best for the animals... As for how to handle the situation, it's a sticky one. If this person truly is a good friend, I would continue offering money for the snakes while not so subtly implying that the snakes were MUCH smaller than they should be at that size. I would also keep track of the expenses for feeding and caring for the snakes in the time you have them. Maybe during your cash offer attempts, you can pull out the records and say THIS is how much I have spent on food. THIS is how much I spent getting the appropriate housing for them. Maybe then your friend will understand that the the money you're putting into caring for them will likely be around what you're offering to pay for them and logic will prevail. Or maybe your friend will lose interest while you have the snakes and she'll just tell you to keep them, or finally take you up on an offer. Without knowing the situation firsthand and without knowing your friend personally, it's a tough call. I'm leery of business dealings with friends as those are the ones that tend to go bad, feelings get hurt and friendships get damaged.

To sum up my long winded post, good luck in however you handle it. It's not an easy spot to be in... But don't give up and keep fighting for what's best for the animals overall.

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Thank you for taking the time to read my long post. You have very good advice & I'm thinking I'm going to stick to keep offering money & then eventually just give her the bill if all else fails. We are very close, so hopefully it won't come between our friendship. She is also an animal lover & I hope as the snakes progress she will realize they are in the best of care. Thanks again for the advice! Have a blessed evening!

I have a similar situation with ym big girl Dessi (rescued) and what I have done is exactly as stated above kept track of feeding and husbandry costs. As well as medical care given to the snake. If the young girl wants her snake returned she first has to prove she can and will be able to take care of it and second Repay at least a portion of the Husbandry/Food Expense and all the vet bills. So far she has not asked for the snake returned.
Hope this helps you out

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Originally Posted by RestlessRobie

I have a similar situation with ym big girl Dessi (rescued) and what I have done is exactly as stated above kept track of feeding and husbandry costs. As well as medical care given to the snake. If the young girl wants her snake returned she first has to prove she can and will be able to take care of it and second Repay at least a portion of the Husbandry/Food Expense and all the vet bills. So far she has not asked for the snake returned.
Hope this helps you out

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I hate to say it but I'm glad I'm not alone. Thank you for the advice! She just needs to realize there are a lot of expenses owning snakes... from husbandry to feeding (especially since my breeding pair aren't having any babies), down to even electricity! lol. Thanks again for the helpful advice, much appreciated! & good luck with your situation! :gj:

I would also let your friend know now that you want any expense while the snakes are in your care, instead of springing it on her and her saying that wasn't agreed on. the amount can and will add up. good luck, I hope it all works out for the best, don

Did yall have an agreement that she would pay you back? I hope you did. If not I doubt she will take the bill very well. That said, I would give her the bill if she continues to turn down the money. No reason to put money into something that will end up being wasted if she does not start taking proper care when she gets them back.

You may try offering less and less and explain the reason you are offering less is because you are putting money into them so you feel the payment is being eaten up by your care. That way she will have an idea that you are wanting your money back without being blindsided by a bill.

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Originally Posted by don15681

I would also let your friend know now that you want any expense while the snakes are in your care, instead of springing it on her and her saying that wasn't agreed on. the amount can and will add up. good luck, I hope it all works out for the best, don

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Thanks Don, we have already agreed to her paying for the food & husbandry items, I could never spring that up on anyone. Lol. Thank you for the advice!

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Originally Posted by KMG

Did yall have an agreement that she would pay you back? I hope you did. If not I doubt she will take the bill very well. That said, I would give her the bill if she continues to turn down the money. No reason to put money into something that will end up being wasted if she does not start taking proper care when she gets them back.

You may try offering less and less and explain the reason you are offering less is because you are putting money into them so you feel the payment is being eaten up by your care. That way she will have an idea that you are wanting your money back without being blindsided by a bill.

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Yes, we have an agreement already. I've offered super cheap IMO... $200 for the snakes & enclosures. But we've settled on just billing her... which will add up quick. So most likely I'll end up owning them. $2.50 a feeding per day adds up quick, especially for snakes. Thanks for the input & advice! :)

I would definitely let her know that you don't intend to take care of them for free and that when she decides that she wants them back, she will get a bill for the amount you put into them. Let her know what you're buying for them before hand and the reason why. Let her know you won't care for them if she doesn't want to give them what they need to be taken care of properly. I don't mean go out and buy fancy stuff like you might do for your own animals but just things that they may not have that would be necessary for proper care. As a friend I know it's hard to straight out tell them "this animal looks thin/sick (insert any other issue here) and this is what you should be doing." Even if you did many people don't take kindly to it or ignore your advice anyway thinking they know better. I think it would be best to not offer any money for them or push the issue. Just be firm in letting her know that taking care of an animal the way it's supposed to be taken care of isn't cheap and since they aren't YOUR animals then she will need to pay you back or you keep the snakes. She may change her mind if she knows there are no freebies.

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Originally Posted by FroggyCrazy

As a friend I know it's hard to straight out tell them "this animal looks thin/sick (insert any other issue here) and this is what you should be doing." Even if you did many people don't take kindly to it or ignore your advice anyway thinking they know better.

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+1 on that. & your advice is great, you have amazing points. I really appreciate your input!

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Originally Posted by TaylorMade

Thanks Don, we have already agreed to her paying for the food & husbandry items, I could never spring that up on anyone. Lol. Thank you for the advice!

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Yes, we have an agreement already. I've offered super cheap IMO... $200 for the snakes & enclosures. But we've settled on just billing her... which will add up quick. So most likely I'll end up owning them. $2.50 a feeding per day adds up quick, especially for snakes. Thanks for the input & advice! :)

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$2.50 per feeding? PER snake? That's pretty high. Even if it's for both snakes.

By the way, they don't NEED to be on 5 day feeding schedules. They could be on 7 day or 10 day feeding schedules. We put them on 5 days so they grow at a better rate for our purpose of breeding them.

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Originally Posted by Aaron_S

$2.50 per feeding? PER snake? That's pretty high. Even if it's for both snakes.

By the way, they don't NEED to be on 5 day feeding schedules. They could be on 7 day or 10 day feeding schedules. We put them on 5 days so they grow at a better rate for our purpose of breeding them.

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Would you put them on a 5 day feeding schedule as young as they are (still growing) and malnourished? To me it looks like they need to put on weight even if it's not for breeding purposes but just for growing. Just my opinion but I would want them to get back into shape not just keep them alive. I'm new to snakes but I have lots of experience with other animals and usually you want to up the feedings if you're trying to put weight on them. Is it different with snakes?

I think you need to have a heart to heart about proper care. Tell her that you love these snakes but she simply wasn't caring for them properly and you would be happy to show her how when the time comes.

If I were you I would keep them. You will know they are in safe keeping. I rescued a male pastel a couple week ago. He is in bad shape but he eats what ever I put in front of him. This is what he looks like now.[IMG]http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/5909/imag0307l.jpg[/IMG]

Just to let you know where I stand at the moment the former owner in question owes me $235.85 and she is aware of this and has yet to come visit the snake or even ask about the snake in about 6 month's so I figure it is probably mine at this point.

I agree with all the above advice but maybe you could have her over and explain to her what exactly she would need to keep them healthy and how to properly take care of them. I would start by showing her how you and other keepers take care of them as opposed telling her everything she did wrong. I've had a similar experience and it seems the person will either react positively and establish good husbandry with help, or realize that it may be not be financially feasible for them to keep the snakes and realize that its in the snake's best interest to go to someone with the ability to properly take care of them.

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Originally Posted by Aaron_S

$2.50 per feeding? PER snake? That's pretty high. Even if it's for both snakes.

By the way, they don't NEED to be on 5 day feeding schedules. They could be on 7 day or 10 day feeding schedules. We put them on 5 days so they grow at a better rate for our purpose of breeding them.

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Yeah, unfortunately the guy I buy my adult mice from is pretty pricey. & no offense but I disagree with putting snakes that are in this particular condition on a 7 or 10 day feeding schedule. They need the extra weight. But thanks for the suggestion anyways! :)

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Originally Posted by FroggyCrazy

Would you put them on a 5 day feeding schedule as young as they are (still growing) and malnourished? To me it looks like they need to put on weight even if it's not for breeding purposes but just for growing. Just my opinion but I would want them to get back into shape not just keep them alive.

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I totally agree with you about the feeding schedule. They need to put on quite a bit of really weight so I'm sticking to the 5 day cycle.

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Originally Posted by rasslinrinyu

I think you need to have a heart to heart about proper care. Tell her that you love these snakes but she simply wasn't caring for them properly and you would be happy to show her how when the time comes.

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Oh, many times I've tried to educate & inform her on how to take care of a ball but it goes in one ear & out the other. She thinks she's more informed. Lol.

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Originally Posted by Tye Hicks

If I were you I would keep them. You will know they are in safe keeping. I rescued a male pastel a couple week ago. He is in bad shape but he eats what ever I put in front of him. This is what he looks like now.[IMG]http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/5909/imag0307l.jpg[/IMG]

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Well I have a feeling they will end up in my care ultimately. Btw, he's a very beautiful pastel! Congrats on the rescue & glad to hear he is in good hands!:gj:

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Originally Posted by RestlessRobie

Just to let you know where I stand at the moment the former owner in question owes me $235.85 and she is aware of this and has yet to come visit the snake or even ask about the snake in about 6 month's so I figure it is probably mine at this point.

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I have a feeling a similar situation will occur, however she is pretty "attached" to them at the moment. Which I can't understand, seeing as how underweight & poorly taken care of they were. :( It does warm my heart knowing there are good people rescuing poor snakes out of bad situations!

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Originally Posted by katiekat

I agree with all the above advice but maybe you could have her over and explain to her what exactly she would need to keep them healthy and how to properly take care of them. I would start by showing her how you and other keepers take care of them as opposed telling her everything she did wrong. I've had a similar experience and it seems the person will either react positively and establish good husbandry with help, or realize that it may be not be financially feasible for them to keep the snakes and realize that its in the snake's best interest to go to someone with the ability to properly take care of them.

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I've tried showing her.... doesn't do any good. I think she has realized she can't afford them but she can't "let go" so I'm "fostering" them for now. Eventually she will most likely forget about them.

THANK Y'ALL FOR ALL THE WONDERFUL ADVICE, IDEAS, OPINIONS & PERSONAL EXPERIENCES. I AM TRULY GRATEFUL FOR SUCH AN AWESOME & SUPPORTIVE COMMUNITY! THANK YOU ALL! :clap:

:peace: BLESSED BE!

I'm new to this, so forgive me if this is an outlandish suggestion- maybe offer to trade these two for their future offspring? By the time you have to make good on your deal, maybe she'll be in a better position to properly care for snakes. Best case, she'll take the deal and by the time babies come around she won't be interested anymore. Worst case, nothing changes and you saved two snakes from poor care only to thrust two others into it later.

I don't envy you! Having to tell someone they're not a good pet owner goes over about as well as telling someone they're a bad parent.

If she doesn't want to take advice now I don't think there would be any reason to believe she would later. Giving her more animals to mistreat I think would be a bit irresponsible. From the sounds of it she's been given advice many times and hasn't wanted to take it. Believe it or not I have ran across this before. With a random person it's probably best to keep your distance and steer clear of any animals they might have. You can offer your advice but expect them to take it with a grain of salt. But when someone is a friend it's hard to keep your distance for obvious reasons and in my experience they take it much more personal if you critique their husbandry unless they ask you for advice. This can cause issues in the friendship and it's hard to not say anything when you know the reasons why they are sick or thin when you feel so bad for the animals. It's sad when they are otherwise a really nice person. They just don't have a clue or care to put the time into reasearching the animals and think they know better just because "that's the way I've always done it and it's fine" even if they go through animals like M&Ms. It's sad but ultimately they are not your animals and there's really not much you can do about it.

*edit* I'm not sure where the thumbs down symbol came from but I don't see a way to remove it lol

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Originally Posted by BrandiR

I'm new to this, so forgive me if this is an outlandish suggestion- maybe offer to trade these two for their future offspring? By the time you have to make good on your deal, maybe she'll be in a better position to properly care for snakes. Best case, she'll take the deal and by the time babies come around she won't be interested anymore. Worst case, nothing changes and you saved two snakes from poor care only to thrust two others into it later.

I don't envy you! Having to tell someone they're not a good pet owner goes over about as well as telling someone they're a bad parent.

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I just did what you suggested about the offspring but she's still refusing. She came over the other day & didn't even ask to seen them or anything.

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Originally Posted by FroggyCrazy

If she doesn't want to take advice now I don't think there would be any reason to believe she would later. Giving her more animals to mistreat I think would be a bit irresponsible. From the sounds of it she's been given advice many times and hasn't wanted to take it. Believe it or not I have ran across this before. With a random person it's probably best to keep your distance and steer clear of any animals they might have. You can offer your advice but expect them to take it with a grain of salt. But when someone is a friend it's hard to keep your distance for obvious reasons and in my experience they take it much more personal if you critique their husbandry unless they ask you for advice. This can cause issues in the friendship and it's hard to not say anything when you know the reasons why they are sick or thin when you feel so bad for the animals. It's sad when they are otherwise a really nice person. They just don't have a clue or care to put the time into reasearching the animals and think they know better just because "that's the way I've always done it and it's fine" even if they go through animals like M&Ms. It's sad but ultimately they are not your animals and there's really not much you can do about it.

*edit* I'm not sure where the thumbs down symbol came from but I don't see a way to remove it lol

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I totally agree... why put another animal in a careless owners hands? & you know what's really :cens0r: up is she worked for a big breeder here in TX & that's how she acquired the snakes. So you would think she would know how to properly take care of these animals, she just simply refuses.

Also on a side note check out the rest of of my collection HERE!

Thanks for everyones input & advice! It's very appreciated!

I would keep working on her and try to convince her that by letting you keep them she would be doing you a favor. Sometimes reverse psychology works. I picked up a female spider BP from a distant family member in January. We purchased a clutch mate at the same time from the same person same day. Come January, this little girl only weighed in at 121grams and was severely dehydrated. Now 8 months later, she is doing great has a nice solid weight to her and does not even look the same. My "special" relative said the snake would not eat and that is why it was so little. Since I got her, she has never missed a meal. Good luck in getting them from her, I feel for your situation.

You could try...."What are you talking about? You never left any snakes with me? I don't mind telling you, I'm a little offended by your accusations!" :)

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Originally Posted by S.I.R.

I would keep working on her and try to convince her that by letting you keep them she would be doing you a favor. Sometimes reverse psychology works. I picked up a female spider BP from a distant family member in January. We purchased a clutch mate at the same time from the same person same day. Come January, this little girl only weighed in at 121grams and was severely dehydrated. Now 8 months later, she is doing great has a nice solid weight to her and does not even look the same. My "special" relative said the snake would not eat and that is why it was so little. Since I got her, she has never missed a meal. Good luck in getting them from her, I feel for your situation.

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Nice idea on the reverse psychology! That didn't run through my mind but you have a solid point. Congrats on getting your little girl back to being healthy! I'm so glad there are such good hearted people in this twisted world that take in animals that are in need of TLC. I offered both an adult mouse on the second day I had them (on top of having a husbandry change) & they took them with NO hesitation. Poor things were starving to death. In the pics I provided, both snakes were not "empty"... they each had an adult mouse in their system & they still look that skinny. It's just going to take some time & both will be up to weight & 100% health. blessings & good luck with your rescue!

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Originally Posted by BrandiR

You could try...."What are you talking about? You never left any snakes with me? I don't mind telling you, I'm a little offended by your accusations!" :)

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Lmao! Too funny... I would totally do this if I could get away with it :)

I had a problem like this with my boyfriend's co-worker. She was neglecting her animals as well, despite telling me how much she loves them. She would even go so far as to tell ME how to take care of MY animals. Such beautiful quotes that can be recalled are:

"You're feeding your crested gecko Repashy Crested Gecko Diet?! You should be feeding it baby food!! Wow you should really read up on things."

"You know your crested gecko doesn't have a heat lamp. It's probably going to die without it. Just saying."

"Your leopard gecko is cute, but really fat. Look at that tail! You are feeding it just waaaay too much. You need to stop that."


Ahhhh yes. Those were the days. Until I got a call at 3am with her crying because her bearded dragon was having a seizure. I calmly informed her that it was because she had never provided him with a UVB light, or anything but crickets for his entire life. Only when the animal was on the cusp of death did she ask me for help. And even then, I told her I would only help her if she did everything I said, and didn't give me flack about it. Otherwise, she could figure it out herself.

She did. She listened. We got the beardie stable, got his diet better, his seizures stopped, vet agreed with everything I had told her, etc etc.

Two months later, she was dropping the ball again, not listening, and picked up even more animals. My last resort was taking her to our local reptile society and having complete strangers critique her animals and set-ups. Only then did she listen. Why? An outside source gains NOTHING. An outside source can judge you all they want and it's not personal. An outside source doesn't care who you are, but cares what the animals look like.

She did switch after that. And then realized reptiles weren't for her and sold the rest of them.

So perhaps you could have her bring her snakes to someone 'outside' of the situation to get some unbiased feedback? Although, you said she worked with a big name breeder, so maybe that might not work.

Sometimes, telling someone to change doesn't help. And sometimes, we need to be super blunt.

Personally, I couldn't be friends with someone who treated their animals like that. If you don't care about your animals, then are you really going to be a good friend to me? Are you going to care about our friendship? Or is it just there until you get bored and stop putting effort into the friendship?

I would keep trying to keep them. That reverse psychology seems like it would be a good idea. I mean if you say something along the lines of, "Ya know, I do like the way these look, I could probably get some good babies off of them, can I keep them until they mature?" Might get you somewhere, The girl clearly isn't capable of giving them proper care as of now... And worst case scenario is that in the mean time you can educate her on what she SHOULD be doing so that she can care or them properly in the future (if she will listen)... But to be completely honest with you... If you were forced to give them back because she refused all offers I would go to the person she worked for previously and let him know what is going on... And if things didn't improve from there I might honestly consider getting the authorities involved... The whole lack of care thing does not go over well in many places when it comes to animals. But that is just me. Most of my friends and family don't have pets and the only other person I would trust with my animals is my boyfriend simply for the fact that I know he would take spectacular care of my little one. And I don't always care about friendship when it comes at the expense of innocent lives...

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Originally Posted by Vasiliki

I had a problem like this with my boyfriend's co-worker. She was neglecting her animals as well, despite telling me how much she loves them. She would even go so far as to tell ME how to take care of MY animals. Such beautiful quotes that can be recalled are:

"You're feeding your crested gecko Repashy Crested Gecko Diet?! You should be feeding it baby food!! Wow you should really read up on things."

"You know your crested gecko doesn't have a heat lamp. It's probably going to die without it. Just saying."

"Your leopard gecko is cute, but really fat. Look at that tail! You are feeding it just waaaay too much. You need to stop that."


Ahhhh yes. Those were the days. Until I got a call at 3am with her crying because her bearded dragon was having a seizure. I calmly informed her that it was because she had never provided him with a UVB light, or anything but crickets for his entire life. Only when the animal was on the cusp of death did she ask me for help. And even then, I told her I would only help her if she did everything I said, and didn't give me flack about it. Otherwise, she could figure it out herself.

She did. She listened. We got the beardie stable, got his diet better, his seizures stopped, vet agreed with everything I had told her, etc etc.

Two months later, she was dropping the ball again, not listening, and picked up even more animals. My last resort was taking her to our local reptile society and having complete strangers critique her animals and set-ups. Only then did she listen. Why? An outside source gains NOTHING. An outside source can judge you all they want and it's not personal. An outside source doesn't care who you are, but cares what the animals look like.

She did switch after that. And then realized reptiles weren't for her and sold the rest of them.

So perhaps you could have her bring her snakes to someone 'outside' of the situation to get some unbiased feedback? Although, you said she worked with a big name breeder, so maybe that might not work.

Sometimes, telling someone to change doesn't help. And sometimes, we need to be super blunt.

Personally, I couldn't be friends with someone who treated their animals like that. If you don't care about your animals, then are you really going to be a good friend to me? Are you going to care about our friendship? Or is it just there until you get bored and stop putting effort into the friendship?

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Wow Danielle thank you for sharing & the advice. Everything you said described exactly how she treats her animals, however she's never called me with a 911 emergency. & she also knows better to critique the way I treat my animals :colbert: hehe. She knows in her heart that I am more capable of properly taking care of these snakes & I'm going to do everything in my power to not let them get back in the wrong hands.
She actually watches me at least once a week "making my rounds", checking cage temps & humidity, cleaning cages, changing out the water bowls, & even feeding. I mean... she actually sees this, so it just tells me that she likes the IDEA of owning snakes, she just flat out doesn't have the motivation or compassion to properly take care of them.
On top of all this she worked for a breeder & took care of snakes so it's not like she is misinformed. I honestly think she had more "important" expenses that were used for other things instead for food that's a mere $4 every 5 days. So sad.
I have a feeling the will eventually be in my permanent collection. Thank you for your input, it was extremely helpful! :D

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Originally Posted by alpine

I would keep trying to keep them. That reverse psychology seems like it would be a good idea. I mean if you say something along the lines of, "Ya know, I do like the way these look, I could probably get some good babies off of them, can I keep them until they mature?" Might get you somewhere, The girl clearly isn't capable of giving them proper care as of now... And worst case scenario is that in the mean time you can educate her on what she SHOULD be doing so that she can care or them properly in the future (if she will listen)... But to be completely honest with you... If you were forced to give them back because she refused all offers I would go to the person she worked for previously and let him know what is going on... And if things didn't improve from there I might honestly consider getting the authorities involved... The whole lack of care thing does not go over well in many places when it comes to animals. But that is just me. Most of my friends and family don't have pets and the only other person I would trust with my animals is my boyfriend simply for the fact that I know he would take spectacular care of my little one. And I don't always care about friendship when it comes at the expense of innocent lives...

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I totally agree, I will try the reverse psychology approach & hopefully will get through to her. She was actually planning on breeding them in the future to "make a lot of money with bumblebees" which is hysterical & pathetic at the same time. See, I have plans on breeding but most definitely NOT for money... but for the pleasure of bringing life forth & putting it into hands of people who actually appreciate the beauty & mystery of snakes. :)
I'm keeping feeding records just in case she does eventually ask for them back when they are healthy. I'm also taking plenty of pictures just in case I do have to call the breeder (who is a family friend of mine anyways) or if I need to take it to the authorities, which of course is last resort.
I'm just like you when it comes to my animals (& I've got a mini zoo- 2 pitbulls, a beagle, 8 snakes, 1 leopard gecko, 3 aquariums, & 2 blue Indian ringneck parakeets. Whew. Lol.) & I only trust myself & also my boyfriend with my babies. Blessings, thanks for the great advice! :D

Good luck with solving the problem :). I understand your trepidations with letting your friend have them back and I wish you the best of luck with figuring it all out. I have plans for breeding as well, hoping to get some pieds and go from there, I know I could sell them for something at least but I really just want to breed them so that I can get something new that I have been dreaming about... I just would really like to have some pieds and then branch out from there to get new things and just learn the trade. If I sell then HUZZAH, but if I don't then oh well. It isn't the end of the world.

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Originally Posted by alpine

Good luck with solving the problem :). I understand your trepidations with letting your friend have them back and I wish you the best of luck with figuring it all out. I have plans for breeding as well, hoping to get some pieds and go from there, I know I could sell them for something at least but I really just want to breed them so that I can get something new that I have been dreaming about... I just would really like to have some pieds and then branch out from there to get new things and just learn the trade. If I sell then HUZZAH, but if I don't then oh well. It isn't the end of the world.

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Thank you so much! Everything works out in the end. & as far as breeding goes.... I'm going to be breeding my pied when he gets some more weight on him. Eventually in a couple years I'm going to try make some albino pieds. 1/16 chance but I've been praying to the "odds gods".... figured if I get a head start they will be on my side. Lol. Good luck with your pied project, I'm sure you will be successful but either way you get the pleasure of playing "mother nature"... which is bad arse. :D