So here's what I'm pondering.... Thoughts???

So when we got our first bps, they were strictly for pets. We got a mojave off CL, he was initially just for fun. Then I started seeing some cool snakes I liked, and decided it would be fun, and probably cheaper to breed and make my own. So I got a butter, because I want a BEL. Well now, there are some other things I would like to make as well. I was thinking about getting rid of my mojave, and getting a pastave maybe. But I also would like to make a queen bee. So, since butter and lesser are basically the same, if I hold back a male butter (once my butter is ready to go) could I breed him to my bumble bee and get a queen bee? Or would that be something different? Other thing I am pondering, is getting a lesser male. Then I know I can shoot for queen bee. But, as far as BEL, lesser x butter will still make that? But would that produce bug eyes? Doesn't mojo x butter make cleaner BEL? Hmmmm, what to do. Thoughts anyone?

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I think you could call it that, they look pretty much the same. I mean if you were selling the hatchlings, supposing you produced more than one, than I guess you should specify that it is a queenbee from a butter.

So what do you think about the BEL, better mojo x butter, or lesser x butter? Because honestly I think I am leaning towards getting a male lesser. Found a nice pastel lesser just a moment ago......

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I like mojos and pretty much all their combos and I think lesserxmojos are pretty nice. The butter/lesser BELs do the bug eye thing right? I personally wouldnt do it because of the bug eye thing. I know it is only cosmetic and doesnt affect the way they function but I think they look comical and I dont like to look at a snake and be amused by how funny it looks I like to be amazed by how beautiful it is. Does the bug eye thing happen 100% of the time or is it like kinking in super cinnies where its a possibility but may or may not happen? I think you need to do what you think fits into your plans better. If thats selling your mojo male and getting a lesser to replace him than do it.

Hmm. Maybe I keep my mojo, and just buy a queen bee. I don't know if I have the patience to wait that long for one anyhow, lol..... Darn you SnakesRkewl!!!!!! What I didn't know wouldn't have hurt me, but no, he posts a gorgeous queen bee. Then Kaorte makes it worse with hers.......:p

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I might be wrong buy I think butter x pastel x spider is called a butter bumble bee, and lesser x pastel x spider is the queen bee. They look very similar(I say they are the same just different lines). I would do butter x mojo for bel(or lesser x mojo) since I think they produce the whitest bels

butter pastel spider is the same thing as a lesser pastel spider, they are both queenbee's.

I'll take the blame :D

Pastel lesser...hmmm, you mean one of these...
http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/a...y/100_6762.jpg

Personally I'd shoot for queenbee's and not super butter/lessers even though I did the pairing last year, I won't again...
http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/a...y/100_7370.jpg

I am a horrible tease aren't I :P

I hate you :mad:

Just kidding, beautiful animals......:). I want some of those....



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Originally Posted by DrDooLittle

I hate you :mad:

Just kidding, beautiful animals......:). I want some of those....

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:O:O:O

Thanks, you can do it just make sure you are picky, quality means everything in the hobby :gj:

Yeah, would be nice to get one from my bumblebee, I think she's nice. My butter also is nice, so if she gave me a nice male.... That's just means I am a few years away from a queen. My bee won't even be ready till next year, and she is going to my enchi first, my butter to...., then maybe if I get a male butter, the next year. Patience, must have patience......:D

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Id go for queen bees first personally. And then when you have one of them, try and shoot for BELs. Or spider/pastel BEL's. A pastel BEL would be even whiter i would think! :gj:

Idk, as nice as an all white snake is, i personally just prefer a lil bit of pattern somewhere. Like the yellow splotches on BlackEL's. Or high white pieds. Stuff like that. Just personal preference though i guess. Go with whatever YOU wanna make first more doolittle!

I want both, but I would like a queen first. Little doolittle and daddy want BEL. I don't have a male to make queens yet. And don't really want to buy another, because we are male heavy anyhow. Hmph. :confused: That's why I was contemplating getting rid of mojo for a lesser. But what's this spider pastel BEL you speak of????? I can make a BEL that way somehow? That might make my decision easier..... Go on, I'm listening.

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Thats tough.
What bps do you have now?

Breeding quality? My 0.1 bumblebee, 0.1 butter, 1.0 enchi. Those three are nice. My 1.0 mojo is mid grade I would say. I have definately seen better, then again, he started out as a pet, so I wasn't looking for quality. And 1.1 pastels, my male is really browned out. ( but just an absolute doll). My female is midgrade. She wasn't the best to start, looked like she was browning out, but I swear lately when I look at her she is looking a bit better than she did awhile ago. And 1.0 normal. We got all those guys when they were "just pets".

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Originally Posted by DrDooLittle

But what's this spider pastel BEL you speak of????? I can make a BEL that way somehow? That might make my decision easier..... Go on, I'm listening.

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I think he meant if you make a queenbee you can breed it to the butter and make a bumblebee BEL, or pastel BEL or spider BEL.
Our butter/lesser BEL is so white there's no way I could tell if other genes are hidden in it, I'm assuming the same would be with most any butter/lesser BEL that has other genes in it.

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

I think he meant if you make a queenbee you can breed it to the butter and make a bumblebee BEL, or pastel BEL or spider BEL.
Our butter/lesser BEL is so white there's no way I could tell if other genes are hidden in it, I'm assuming the same would be with most any butter/lesser BEL that has other genes in it.

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Dang, that might be my answer. :D Thanks. So maybe I'm back to get rid of my mojo, and get a nice pastel lesser.

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A pastel butter male is what i would get. Put him to your bee and your butter and you'll get Queenbees (or super pastel butter spiders) and pastel BELs. Theres a possibility of bug eyes but i personally would take the risk. Bug eyes arent as big of a deal as other genetic defects imo.

I wouldnt get a pastel lesser. If you make a butter/lesser BEL then breed it how will you tell the difference between the offspring? Thats why i wouldnt do it personally.

Id sell the mojo male too. And id pair the enchi with the pastel to make pastel enchis!!! :gj:

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

I think he meant if you make a queenbee you can breed it to the butter and make a bumblebee BEL, or pastel BEL or spider BEL.
Our butter/lesser BEL is so white there's no way I could tell if other genes are hidden in it, I'm assuming the same would be with most any butter/lesser BEL that has other genes in it.

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What about under a blacklight?

And how do you sell offspring of that BEL? Like how do you tell the difference between the butters an lessers?

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

And id pair the enchi with the pastel to make pastel enchis!!! :gj:

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I thought about that. But am kind of on the fence about breeding her since she's not outstanding.

I'm so glad you guys are here to help! :). Thanks, think I know what I'm going to do.

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Originally Posted by DrDooLittle

I thought about that. But am kind of on the fence about breeding her since she's not outstanding.

I'm so glad you guys are here to help! :). Thanks, think I know what I'm going to do.

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My pastel girl isnt "outstanding" but outta ten id give her a solid 6 or 7. Uglier pastels can throw hot babies. I say go for it unless shes really browned out. Plus your enchi is a really hot example of the morph so thatll help the babies cause!

Edit: whatta you gunna do??? :D

People need to get one thing straight, a butter is a lesser is a butter is a lesser, even if they are different lines of the same thing, they do exactly the same thing.

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I wouldnt get a pastel lesser. If you make a butter/lesser BEL then breed it how will you tell the difference between the offspring? Thats why i wouldnt do it personally.

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So I guess I should sell the butter lesser BEL and move on to something else?? :O

Our butter and lesser look very different from each other, and so do their offspring,
it's easy to tell the difference even if it's the same genetic.

I agree with you Jerry, i think theyre the same too. But not everyone thinks that obviously.

So even in combos you can tell them apart pretty easily? If you have any pic for examples thatd be awesome man!

I didnt mean to sound combative or questioning your methods, i was just curious. I was also just saying my opinion. I wouldnt personally do that pairing bc im not confident enough identifying lessers from butters (for selling purposes. Not everyones gunna wanna buy pastel butter/lessers if i couldnt tell my offspring apart lol). Like i said though, i personally believe theyre different lines of the same morph.

I'm going to get rid of my mojo, and make room for a pastel lesser/or butter (I like the looks of them better than mojo anyhow). Start saving my money, and then as soon as my enchi is out of qt, I will start looking. I guess I will see at that time, what I find that catches my eye more between the two. I must have a queen bee....aaaaand a stinger bee....

"Hi, my name is DrDooLittle. I am addicted to all things bee". :D

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Mmmm stingerbees...

Yea see the problem is when i say "make what you wanna make first", people forget that your daughter is looking over your shoulder going "nooo get this instead. And this and this and this!" lmao. At least she's into cool stuff like herps!

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

Mmmm stingerbees...

Yea see the problem is when i say "make what you wanna make first", people forget that your daughter is looking over your shoulder going "nooo get this instead. And this and this and this!" lmao. At least she's into cool stuff like herps!

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Oh yeah, stingers on the way!

Lol, yeah, showed my daughter another pic of a queen bee today. She's on board for the pastel lesser/butter to get both. She likes the queens too, so long as she still gets a BEL. She's pretty funny too, she tried to tell me she was taking them when she moved out! :eek:

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Originally Posted by DrDooLittle

Oh yeah, stingers on the way!

Lol, yeah, showed my daughter another pic of a queen bee today. She's on board for the pastel lesser/butter to get both. She likes the queens too, so long as she still gets a BEL. She's pretty funny too, she tried to tell me she was taking them when she moved out! :eek:

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How does she not have her own rack yet? Once you produce a few babies i think she needs to get her own setup going with her own personal hand selected holdbacks!
EDIT: (you know, that way she doesnt take any of your snakes when she moves out. Just takes her own. I bet you wouldnt have to twist her arm too much to go along with that plan lol).

Queenbees are nice, i think i still like stinger bees better though lol!

Deff go the route toward the queen bees, I am.one of my first pairs will be killer bee to my pastel lesser hopes of a female killer queen bee or a queen bee. Then i plan to add some enchi combos in later down the road, just because i need a female pastel pied(or other combo pied) for my male pied(hes getting lonely not having any planned dates).
Go the route that you think will make you have a bigger smile on your face.
And i agree lesser and butters same morph(might be different lines), you can have great and poor examples of both.

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

How does she not have her own rack yet? Once you produce a few babies i think she needs to get her own setup going with her own personal hand selected holdbacks!
EDIT: (you know, that way she doesnt take any of your snakes when she moves out. Just takes her own.

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That is a great idea!

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

I agree with you Jerry, i think theyre the same too. But not everyone thinks that obviously.

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That's true, not sure why, it's been proven over and over that they do the same thing depending on what that particular lesser or butter looks like.

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So even in combos you can tell them apart pretty easily? If you have any pic for examples thatd be awesome man!

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I would love to show how easy it was when we did the pairing last year, but the butter was sold to a friend before I got good pics of it, and he sold it later so I have no comparison pics to share. :mad:
I will say when we bred our lesser to butter there was one that obviously looked like the no spot lesser and one that looked like the butter female.
Our lesser looks WAY different than our butter so it's an easy call and should be the same when we breed the lesser/butter lucy this coming year.

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I didnt mean to sound combative or questioning your methods, i was just curious. I was also just saying my opinion.

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You didn't sound combative nor did I take it that way :gj:

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Originally Posted by DrDooLittle

I'm going to get rid of my mojo, and make room for a pastel lesser/or butter (I like the looks of them better than mojo anyhow). Start saving my money, and then as soon as my enchi is out of qt, I will start looking. I guess I will see at that time, what I find that catches my eye more between the two. I must have a queen bee....aaaaand a stinger bee....

"Hi, my name is DrDooLittle. I am addicted to all things bee". :D

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I thought Bee's were way cool till I started looking at Mike Wilbanks line of Nuclear bp's on his site.

Get back to me when you check them out. Get a 1.0 Fire Butter and start throwing that thing at some girls ;) I have a few 0.1 Spiders, A 0.1 Spinner and a 0.1 Pinstripe waiting for him to grow up next year.

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

That's true, not sure why, it's been proven over and over that they do the same thing depending on what that particular lesser or butter looks like.

I would love to show how easy it was when we did the pairing last year, but the butter was sold to a friend before I got good pics of it, and he sold it later so I have no comparison pics to share. :mad:
I will say when we bred our lesser to butter there was one that obviously looked like the no spot lesser and one that looked like the butter female.
Our lesser looks WAY different than our butter so it's an easy call and should be the same when we breed the lesser/butter lucy this coming year.

You didn't sound combative nor did I take it that way :gj:

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Cool, cool. Take lotsa pics for me next time then lol!

Yea nah i know. I sorta read your response in a pissed off tone, just read it wrong. Nbd.

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Originally Posted by DrDooLittle

That is a great idea!

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She'll be the only kid in her grade to get a snake rack and tstat for christmas this year haha!

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

She'll be the only kid in her grade to get a snake rack and tstat for christmas this year haha!

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Jealous!
:( I wish my parents would buy me a rack and tstat ;)

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

She'll be the only kid in her grade to get a snake rack and tstat for christmas this year haha!

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LMAO, she knows herpstat is the only way to go. One night the hose came off the back of our ac unit (must have been a kitty), and was blasting hot air at the rack, the alarms on the herpstat were going off and she came running to get me, freaked out. Definately the only 3rd grader to get that stuff! All the kids just LOVE when we get to bring the snakes in to class. One boy she had in her 1st and 2nd grade glass was bummed out he wasn't in her class for 3rd grade, because be wanted to see the snakes again. Lol, the boys are jealous of her balls.....:D. Poor Santa isn't going to know what a herpstat is when she sits on his lap with her list.....

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Oh doolittle... Youre gunna get a call from the principle bc "Your daughter was teasing the boys and making innapropriate ball jokes at school" hahaha.

You could REALLY confuse him and she could ask for a honey bee or a spider lol!

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Originally Posted by Bobbafett

Jealous!
:( I wish my parents would buy me a rack and tstat ;)

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If i was your parents id buy you some! haha :gj:

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Originally Posted by Bobbafett

Jealous!
:( I wish my parents would buy me a rack and tstat ;)

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So far I have been unable to deny her any animal she wants (except the horse we can't afford). All though the funny thing is it took her 6 years to convince me about snakes, I used to be terrified of them. Now look at me. Perhaps that is what they mean by living your childhood dreams through your child, lol. I wanted all kinds of animals, and my parents wouldn't let me have more than our family dog. And I really have a love for animals, and she does too. She does well in school, and helps with animals, so how can you say no? I want her to be a able to experience them.

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Hey Jerry, will you post that queen bee here so I can show Hubby? Thanks! I'm digging for that other thread right now...

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Nevermind, I found her....drool....

Mike, you are on to something. We were talking about that, and little doolittle was WAY too excited. She says, "Can the first snake I put in my rack be a BEL??". Lol, dream big! :)

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

Oh doolittle... Youre gunna get a call from the principle bc "Your daughter was teasing the boys and making innapropriate ball jokes at school" hahaha.

You could REALLY confuse him and she could ask for a honey bee or a spider lol!

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Lol lol

"your daughter keeps tellin the other kids her balls are bigger than theirs"

XD