Orangebelly morphs

So I just won an auction of Ben Siegal's for a 753 gram orangebelly male. I had been thinking about getting one the past couple of day and then I saw this guy so I jumped on it. I have noticed that the only orangebelly morphs anywhere that I could find were orangebelly, OB sentinal, graphite ivory and ultra ivory. WOB only has orangebelly, which when you breed two together you get 50/50 normal and OB instead of ivories. Now does anyone else know of any other morphs out there? Or if say I bred to a pastel or anything really would I be the first?

I saw that auction too but I need females =P

From what I understand it's just a different line of yellowbelly and is fully compatible with all yellowbellies so I would assume any yellowbelly combo would work the same with an orangebelly. I could be wrong haha

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...7-Orange-Belly

orangebelly = yellowbelly. OB x OB = Ivories same as YB

I should have been a little more clear. I understand that OB works just like YB. What I'm asking is if anyone has made a OB pastel, or OB pin, OB mojave, OB spider, etc. And also would they be considered new morphs since OB is it's own gene?

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Originally Posted by Scubaf250

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...7-Orange-Belly

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Thanks for the link but if you look at the thanks for it you will see I was already there lol

Orange Belly is Ben Siegel's own line of yellowbelly. They're all related to his original Graphite Ivory and supposedly have the chance of making unique looking Ivories.

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I don't think it's a separate gene at all. I think it's just a different "line"...

The graphite ivory looks cool and all but what are the chances of producing that? Very slim I think because I believe that has something else going on with it. Like a hidden gene or subtle morph like the Lori, Special, Russo, etc. something could have been present in one or both of those original parents that caused the graphite. Which means, as time goes on, that "something" will be lost with the generations and you'll never know if you have a shot at making something as cool as the graphite, or of you just have a yellow belly with a different name..

Again, I get how OB works just like YB and I know about the graphite ivory and the ultra ivory. My question is has anyone made anything else? If I bred an OB to a pastel would it be the first since OB is it's own gene? And would it be the first since there doesn't seem to be any?

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

I don't think it's a separate gene at all. I think it's just a different "line"...

The graphite ivory looks cool and all but what are the chances of producing that? Very slim I think because I believe that has something else going on with it. Like a hidden gene or subtle morph like the Lori, Special, Russo, etc. something could have been present in one or both of those original parents that caused the graphite. Which means, as time goes on, that "something" will be lost with the generations and you'll never know if you have a shot at making something as cool as the graphite, or of you just have a yellow belly with a different name..

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I can see where you are coming from on losing the trait through the generations. But almost everywhere I have found something on OB (there hasn't been much) they claim that they have their own gene, it works and acts like YB but is different some how.

I know what you're saying, but it's one of those things where I'd need more proof. Visual proof.

If you can't find any other OB combo morphs then I guess technically it would be new depending on if any were produced between now and then.

I dont really think it would be accepted as an entirely new morph and/or gene though.. Not until it can be proven that it really does have the potential to produce something different from what a YB can produce. Or if the combos look different enough from the same YB combos.

Honestly I think it will be a wait-and-see kind of thing.

Think about pastels. Lemon, blush, blonde, fade outs, etc..

Until we know for sure wether or not every OB is carrying something cool, like how a platty sibling works, then we won't know how it's going to be classified.

I know Ben has made more than one unique Ivories.


Orangebelly doesn't only act like a yellowbelly. It IS a yellowbelly.
You can breed it to a pastel and say its an Orangebelly pastel, but I'm sure you wouldn't be the first. Ben has been breeding his OBs for years. You would think he would have explored more with the morph other than with each other to make Ivories. And I believe one of the Admins, either Deborah or Robin, has a OB breeder.

Either way, I personally see OB as a YB. So I wouldn't really count OB combos as a newly found morph unless it hasn't been tried with a regular YB.

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So then you are saying that black pastel and cinnamon are the same thing, butter and lesser are the same thing, sulfur and fire are the same thing, etc ?
And I would imagine that someone would have had to branch out with OB's I just can't find anything anywhere on it.

Black Pastels and Cinnys are different IMO. I could easily identify a BP from a Cinny. But I believe that Lessers and Butters are the same. Most couldn't pick out one from the other if they were given a box of them.

Maybe you should ask the OB expert himself? Ben would definitely know them best.

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I also believe that black pastels and cinnamons are very different. They each have different pattern and color traits. I've seen what I'd call low quality cinnamons that look like a black pastel but if you have the eye for the pattern differences, they can be told apart.

Butter and Lesser.. That's harder to say what I think. Most butters I've seen look more "buttery" and are less likely to have spots or "eyes" inside the alien heads.. Also more silvery pixelation along the lower sides. Lessers are either more yellow, or more beige, and are more prone to having spots..

When I was breeding Lessers and butters, they, and their offspring were so entirely different looking that I could not have said they were the same gene.

It could be selective breeding, it could be different lines like pastels and how they look so different. For instance, lemons have thinner black markings, brighter yellow coloration, less blushing.. Blondes have tons of blushing in wider markings, flames, and a creamy blonde color.. I think lesser and butter is like that but the black pastel and cinnamon are just too different in too many ways for me to ever believe its that way with them.

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Originally Posted by satomi325

Maybe you should ask the OB expert himself? Ben would definitely know them best.

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^^ BEST ADVICE SO FAR! ^^

Why didn't I think of that?? ;)

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Originally Posted by angeluscorpion

So then you are saying that black pastel and cinnamon are the same thing, butter and lesser are the same thing, sulfur and fire are the same thing, etc ?
And I would imagine that someone would have had to branch out with OB's I just can't find anything anywhere on it.

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I was being facetious but I think you guys get my point.

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Originally Posted by satomi325

Maybe you should ask the OB expert himself? Ben would definitely know them best.

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I plan to tomorrow my curiosity is getting the better of me, thanks for the suggestion

I have seen Albino OB, Black Pastel OB, and Pastel OB. I myself could potentially make Liesen Black Pastel OB, Blonde Pastel OB, Spider OB, and Enchi OB's this upcoming season. Along with possibly making Ivories, Ultra Ivories, and Graphite Ivories.

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Originally Posted by AGoldReptiles

I have seen Albino OB, Black Pastel OB, and Pastel OB. I myself could potentially make Liesen Black Pastel OB, Blonde Pastel OB, Spider OB, and Enchi OB's this upcoming season. Along with possibly making Ivories, Ultra Ivories, and Graphite Ivories.

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Thanks for that info

This year I made ivories and pumas from my orangebelly female by breeding her to a puma male. I got the female from Ben, and she is a graphite sired sibling of a paradox ivory. Orangebellies are just a variant of the yellowbelly, maybe a slightly darker and more orange version, judging by looking at my female. They may have something "extra" going on in that more than one graphite has been produced from this line, but I don't think we understand yet how to make the graphite. I noticed that my ivories had more color than the ivories I made from the regular yellowbellies. They had faint purple and orange tones on their backs and I emailed Ben to ask about that. He noticed that phenomenon too, but said that those ivories turn white just like other ivories in time. (I think he used to call them ultraivories at one time, but abandoned that name since they didn't turn out to be different.)

The pumas I made from the orangebelly seem a little more orange than the other pumas. I think that is just an example of selective breeding since mom is darker and more orange than my other yellowbellies.

Yes OB act the same as YB, again OB is just a different line of YB just like the Goblin is (Ralph's Line of YB).

I produced a Black Pastel Orange Belly last year, and shooting for Mystic Orange Belly this season. (I work with OB)

The only thing that differentiate the OB is that they can potentially produce the Ultra Ivory and Graphite. After talking to Ben a few times he believes that there is another gene attached to the OB and that it could be recessive (explaining why not all OB produce Ultras or Graphites), not sure if his theory has been proved out yet, you would need to contact him to find out more about it.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Yes OB act the same as YB, again OB is just a different line of YB just like the Goblin is (Ralph's Line of YB).

I produced a Black Pastel Orange Belly last year, and shooting for Mystic Orange Belly this season. (I work with OB)

The only thing that differentiate the OB is that they can potentially produce the Ultra Ivory and Graphite. After talking to Ben a few times he believes that there is another gene attached to the OB and that it could be recessive (explaining why not all OB produce Ultras or Graphites), not sure if his theory has been proved out yet, you would need to contact him to find out more about it.

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Goblins( RDR) and Bling YB ( NERD) are just lines of YB. They don't do anything different than any other YB. Orangebellies have the potential to make something different. Ultras and Graphites, that to me makes them different. Let's use the Ultra as an example. They have a lot if purples and color that fades to the typical Ivory color as they age as stated above. What is going to happen when other genes are in that animal? Will a Pastel Ultra keep it's color better? I think the OB has a lot to be seen yet.

I don't see how it is possible for the Ultras and Graphites to be a recessive trait. OB x YB can make Graphites, so unless that YB happened to be a (Het.) I just don't see it being plausible. Hopefully someday it will all be sorted out.

I have been working with OB's for a few years now. I don't have any YB animals to make any comparisons as for dark, light, orange, or yellow, but I can say that the OB morph is variable just like any other morph. I have produced dark ones, bright ones, ones with more orange and ones with more yellow.

http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/e...ps04f333ca.jpg

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Originally Posted by AGoldReptiles

Goblins( RDR) and Bling YB ( NERD) are just lines of YB. They don't do anything different than any other YB. Orangebellies have the potential to make something different. Ultras and Graphites, that to me makes them different. Let's use the Ultra as an example. They have a lot if purples and color that fades to the typical Ivory color as they age as stated above. What is going to happen when other genes are in that animal? Will a Pastel Ultra keep it's color better? I think the OB has a lot to be seen yet.

I don't see how it is possible for the Ultras and Graphites to be a recessive trait. OB x YB can make Graphites, so unless that YB happened to be a (Het.) I just don't see it being plausible. Hopefully someday it will all be sorted out.

I have been working with OB's for a few years now. I don't have any YB animals to make any comparisons as for dark, light, orange, or yellow, but I can say that the OB morph is variable just like any other morph. I have produced dark ones, bright ones, ones with more orange and ones with more yellow.

http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/e...ps04f333ca.jpg

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OB are still jut a different line of YB regardless.

At the time I talked to Ben (who started the project) his theory on the additional gene was that it was a recessive gene attached to the OB, the Ultra in his opinion at the time was and Ivory carrying that specific gene. In other words his thought at the time that

OB Het? X OB Het? = Make graphite and ultras (ultras being ivory het?), at the time more breeding needed to be done to confirmed this and I am not sure where he stands now.

As for OB X YB producing Graphite does not prove it's not recessive the YB could have very well carry the gene as well.

Just like not all OB to OB pairing make Ultras or Graphite hence the additional gene.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

OB are still jut a different line of YB regardless.

At the time I talked to Ben (who started the project) his theory on the additional gene was that it was a recessive gene attached to the OB, the Ultra in his opinion at the time was and Ivory carrying that specific gene. In other words his thought at the time that

OB Het? X OB Het? = Make graphite and ultras (ultras being ivory het?), at the time more breeding needed to be done to confirmed this and I am not sure where he stands now.

As for OB X YB producing Graphite does not prove it's not recessive the YB could have very well carry the gene as well.

Just like not all OB to OB pairing make Ultras or Graphite hence the additional gene.

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I know who started the OB as I bought mine from Ben :)

It is obvious that there is another gene at play to make the Ultras and Graphites. I just don't think it is recessive. If the YB in a OB x YB that makes a Graphite was in fact a " Het." then why do we not have Ultras and Graphites popping up in YB x YB clutchs? Surely someone one get lucky and line up unknown "Hets." if this were the case.

Another reason that I don't believe it to be a recessive trait is that non ultra Ivories from the OB line have later produced Graphites. So if they were " Hets." shouldn't they have been at least Ultras ?

Either it is still unknown what is going on with this gene or If someone has it figured out they haven't posted what those findings are that I have seen.

I wouldn't go writing OB off as nothing more than a YB. They are compatible and OB's can do anything a YB can do, but YB's can't do all that an OB can do. And we have just scratched the surface with this gene. Again I think we will see big things down the road from the OB, but that's just my opinion :)

Thank you all for your input, I sent Ben a message and this is a quote from a lady named Melody: "If you produce anything from the OB, you can say "from BSR line of graphite ivories" - but it being anything different or new, I'm not sure would be valid." I look forward to working with this morph as not a lot of people seem to be.

One thing I think that should happen is all the people who have produced anything with Orangebelly in it should submit it to WOB so that it can be updated.